Hi,
I've been playing f1gp for nearly 4 years now but still don't
understand the setup properly. I realise for the fast circuits like
Hockenhiem and Monza it's a good idea to have little wings and long gear
ratio's. And for circuits like Pheonix and Monaco it's good to have big
wings and short gear ratios.
However, what does it all mean? I'm pretty much up to speed on the gear
ratios - but don't understand thre aerodynamic factor of the wings. I
realise the bigger the wing, the faster you can corner - but more drag on
the straights. What is the difference between the front and rear wing?
what do the front and rear wings do? How do they help cornering? which is
more important? (I normally have the front wing smaller than the back if
i am altering them).
What about the brake balance? how dows that work? how does that affect
racing. On fast circuits should i put more bias towards the front or
back?
Could somebody please reply..................cheers.
SS
Quoted text (37 lines)
> Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators > Path: factltd.demon.co.uk!news.demon.co.uk!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!lut.ac.uk!usenet > Subject: Calling all F1GP techies....... > Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 10:09:05 GMT > X-Nntp-Posting-Host: cavalier.lut.ac.uk > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Mime-Version: 1.0 > X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) > Organization: Loughborugh University > Lines: 25 > Hi, > I've been playing f1gp for nearly 4 years now but still don't > understand the setup properly. I realise for the fast circuits like > Hockenhiem and Monza it's a good idea to have little wings and long gear > ratio's. And for circuits like Pheonix and Monaco it's good to have big > wings and short gear ratios. > However, what does it all mean? I'm pretty much up to speed on the gear > ratios - but don't understand thre aerodynamic factor of the wings. I > realise the bigger the wing, the faster you can corner - but more drag on > the straights. What is the difference between the front and rear wing? > what do the front and rear wings do? How do they help cornering? which is > more important? (I normally have the front wing smaller than the back if > i am altering them). > What about the brake balance? how dows that work? how does that affect > racing. On fast circuits should i put more bias towards the front or > back? > Could somebody please reply..................cheers. > SSThis brings on a good general question: How do people approach car setup?
I'd like to hear how others go about car setup. Here's me:
First of all, I use a joystick and NO steering help. The setups I've seen
when people have steering help ON are ridiculous. Presumably they are using
the keyboard. They need to stop being cheapskates/wimps and get a joystick
or wheel,and turn steering help OFF. So anyways...
Car setup is a compromise between straight speed and cornering speed, with
the goal of achieving the lowest lap time. For a qualifying setup this is
a sufficient setup goal, but in a race, since it is much easier to pass on
a straight than in the middle of a corner, you don't want the car to be
slower than other cars on the straights, even if the extra downforce would
lower your lap time. Besides, being faster in the corner doesn't help if
someone is holding you up in the corner.
This is how I approach basic car setup for World Circuit (F1GP):
The first thing I do is choose my top gear, since my speed at the end of
a straight has to be sufficient to prevent other cars from passing me. To
save time, I cheat by going to a Q session and "ride" in other cars to get
an idea of the fast cars' top speed. I then set the top gear such that I
hit this speed when the tach hits the redline. BTW, I use automatic gear
changing, partially because changing manually is difficult with a joystick,
but also because I can't cheat by using the rev range above redline, which
would give the "unfair advantage" (pretty silly flaw in this game). Then
I set the low gear, such that I'm in the proper rev range to use this gear
in the slowest corner. I then space out the rest of the gears evenly.
Later on I might tweak some of the inner gears depending on the prevalence
of medium speed corners, or long straights. On tracks where the difference
between the slowest speed and fastest speed is not as great (e.g., Hungary),
you might not need to use all six gears. The idea is that you don't want
the gears spaced out so much that you get out of the powerband, but there
is no need to be busier than you have to if you are not using the full
width of the powerband.
I then set the wings such that I reach redline at the end of the longest
straight. I generally have 10 degrees more wing on the front, to give me
good turn-in on fast corners, while keeping oversteer manageable (and fun)
when powering out of slow corners.
The idea with brake bias is that optimum braking (shortest braking distance)
occurs when all four tire contact patches are braking at the threshold, which
depends on the fact that the contact patches are bigger in the rear, but most
of the weight of the car is thrown on the front tires under braking. However,
I believe that experienced racers put brake bias slightly back, and begin
turn-in while still *** the brakes. This turns the car faster so you can
get on the gas sooner. I don't mess with brake bias much. I usually put brake
bias at 4R. On slow corners I'll try to turn-in while *** the brakes, and
if I'm in the right position I can get on the gas immediately, and when I can
get of couple of those corners turned perfectly, my lap time is noticeably
improved. I think I would be more consistent with a wheel and pedals than on
the joystick.
This is the basic setup, but the tweaking goes on for a while. For instance,
I may find that increasing downforce to improve speed around the corner just
before a long straight is worth it even if top speed suffers, because I may
be going so much faster than the fastest AI guy at the exit of the corner
that he couldn't catch up by the end of the straight anyways.
Doing car setup in a race sim really makes you appreciate the importance of
continued testing during the season by the real race teams.
Bring on GP2, a setup ***!
Dave
Quoted text (66 lines)
>> I've been playing f1gp for nearly 4 years now but still don't >> understand the setup properly. I realise for the fast circuits like >> <snip> >> However, what does it all mean? I'm pretty much up to speed on the gear >> ratios - but don't understand thre aerodynamic factor of the wings. I >> realise the bigger the wing, the faster you can corner - but more drag on >> the straights. What is the difference between the front and rear wing? >> <snip> >> What about the brake balance? how dows that work? how does that affect >> racing. On fast circuits should i put more bias towards the front or >> back? >This brings on a good general question: How do people approach car setup? >I'd like to hear how others go about car setup. Here's me: >First of all, I use a joystick and NO steering help. The setups I've seen >when people have steering help ON are ridiculous. Presumably they are using >the keyboard. They need to stop being cheapskates/wimps and get a joystick >or wheel,and turn steering help OFF. So anyways... >Car setup is a compromise between straight speed and cornering speed, with >the goal of achieving the lowest lap time. For a qualifying setup this is >a sufficient setup goal, but in a race, since it is much easier to pass on >a straight than in the middle of a corner, you don't want the car to be >slower than other cars on the straights, even if the extra downforce would >lower your lap time. Besides, being faster in the corner doesn't help if >someone is holding you up in the corner. >This is how I approach basic car setup for World Circuit (F1GP): >The first thing I do is choose my top gear, since my speed at the end of >a straight has to be sufficient to prevent other cars from passing me. To >save time, I cheat by going to a Q session and "ride" in other cars to get >an idea of the fast cars' top speed. I then set the top gear such that I >hit this speed when the tach hits the redline. BTW, I use automatic gear >changing, partially because changing manually is difficult with a joystick, >but also because I can't cheat by using the rev range above redline, which >would give the "unfair advantage" (pretty silly flaw in this game). Then >I set the low gear, such that I'm in the proper rev range to use this gear >in the slowest corner. I then space out the rest of the gears evenly. >Later on I might tweak some of the inner gears depending on the prevalence >of medium speed corners, or long straights. On tracks where the difference >between the slowest speed and fastest speed is not as great (e.g., Hungary), >you might not need to use all six gears. The idea is that you don't want >the gears spaced out so much that you get out of the powerband, but there >is no need to be busier than you have to if you are not using the full >width of the powerband. >I then set the wings such that I reach redline at the end of the longest >straight. I generally have 10 degrees more wing on the front, to give me >good turn-in on fast corners, while keeping oversteer manageable (and fun) >when powering out of slow corners. >The idea with brake bias is that optimum braking (shortest braking distance) >occurs when all four tire contact patches are braking at the threshold, which >depends on the fact that the contact patches are bigger in the rear, but most >of the weight of the car is thrown on the front tires under braking. However, >I believe that experienced racers put brake bias slightly back, and begin >turn-in while still *** the brakes. This turns the car faster so you can >get on the gas sooner. I don't mess with brake bias much. I usually put brake >bias at 4R. On slow corners I'll try to turn-in while *** the brakes, and >if I'm in the right position I can get on the gas immediately, and when I can >get of couple of those corners turned perfectly, my lap time is noticeably >improved. I think I would be more consistent with a wheel and pedals than on >the joystick. >This is the basic setup, but the tweaking goes on for a while. For instance, >I may find that increasing downforce to improve speed around the corner just >before a long straight is worth it even if top speed suffers, because I may >be going so much faster than the fastest AI guy at the exit of the corner >that he couldn't catch up by the end of the straight anyways. >Doing car setup in a race sim really makes you appreciate the importance of >continued testing during the season by the real race teams. >Bring on GP2, a setup ***!: > I've been playing f1gp for nearly 4 years now but still don't
: > understand the setup properly. I realise for the fast circuits like
: > <snip>
: > However, what does it all mean? I'm pretty much up to speed on the gear
: > ratios - but don't understand thre aerodynamic factor of the wings. I
: > realise the bigger the wing, the faster you can corner - but more drag on
: > the straights. What is the difference between the front and rear wing?
: > <snip>
: > What about the brake balance? how dows that work? how does that affect
: > racing. On fast circuits should i put more bias towards the front or
: > back?
: <good stuff on setting up F1GP deleted>
It's even more interesting than ICR (1&2) where you have more parameters
to adjust. But my approach to set up is much the same - get the top end
and low end speed sorted out first, then the wing settings. Though with
ICR you also have suspension, camber, tyre pressue, roll bars, + others.
I use an Excel spreadheet to keep track of all the data and plot graphs
to try and get a feel for where the optimum lies. Having said that, I'm
still 3-5 seconds off most of the lap records, so I still have some work to
do. The point is that it takes time - lots of it. I do hundreds of laps
on a circuit. I prefer a car that oversteers, so I tend to focus on the front
of the car, and spend less time on the rear. I also use a wheel and pedals
and would strongly recommend them. I also have everything on manual,
with linear steering. As dave said, it really makes you appreciate the
pressure that teams go through to get a car ready for a race.
Alan
: Dave
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The views/opinions expressed here are my own and do not
in any way reflect the views/opinions of my employer.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quoted text (7 lines)
>> I've been playing f1gp for nearly 4 years now but still don't >> understand the setup properly. >This brings on a good general question: How do people approach car setup? >I'd like to hear how others go about car setup. Here's me: >Dave> I've been playing f1gp for nearly 4 years now but still don't
>understand the setup properly. [....]
>What is the difference between the front and rear wing?
>what do the front and rear wings do? How do they help cornering? which is
>more important? [....]
>What about the brake balance? how dows that work? how does that affect
>racing. On fast circuits should i put more bias towards the front or
>back?
The setup guide for F1GP that attempts to answers all these questions
regarding setup details is now accessible from
http://stud1.tuwien.ac.at/~e8925403/f1gp.htm .
Apart from the standard setup options ( wings, brakes and gear-ratios ) it
also includes a chapter about the tyres and special options
like traction help.
It is intended as an introduction into F1GP-setups and aims
at the interested novice-driver who wants to improve his laptimes
and understanding of the workings of a racing-car.
Regards.
IV
___________________________________________________________________________
Ivanhoe 'Tacho' Vasiljevich Student of Technical Physics at the
- http://stud1.tuwien.ac.at/~e8925403
___________________________________________________________________________
