BTCC at Laguna....YES!!!

Hee Heee Heeeeeeeee!!! I've just been watching a replay from "Nascar".....after an appaulingly badly driven exploratory lap my very battered privateer BMW was superby outbraked by a factory Vauxhall Cavalier in the Corkscrew - putting me right off so I went wide into the dirt allowing an Alpha 155 to whisk past as well! BRILLIANT!!! Yes, I've just been playing with Gerhard Lingenbergs latest offering, and have converted Laguna Seca across from ICR2. Naturally I'm not driving one of those horrible Chevys.....the BTCC car set is far more fun! OK it'll never happen - the 1995 BTCC circus will never race for real at Laguna Seca. But I'm having a lot of fun - certainly resurected Nascar for me since I'd abandoned it as soon as I got ICR2. Two messages from this..... _LOADS_ more congratulations to Gerhard.....anyone know an E-mail address for him? BOO to Papyrus.....I'd asked about this.....and Rick Genter said it _couldn't_ be done. Not we're not going to bother. Hee Hee - imagine the marketing possibilities (even as a direct postal sale to enthusiasts avoiding packaging costs, etc) they've lost. And that's just the comercial aspect.....far more this demonstrates what can be done to "their" programming.....are we going to see the full range of add-ons, editors, etc appearing completely out of Papyruses control? Makes me wonder just what track editing/creating involves.....after all they (through Rick Genter) have suggested this can't be done as an add-on either..... It's a thought! B-) B-) B-) Cheers! --- * RM 1.3 U0414 * OS/2 - The only true 100% FAT free operating system.

>Two messages from this..... >_LOADS_ more congratulations to Gerhard.....anyone know an E-mail >address for him? I did have it. I've lost it but someone's finding for me... Yeah right! Like they said you'd never need a PC more powerful than a 386DX40... I had a lot of conversations with Rick G about this a while ago. I even suggested that if licensing of tracks is a problem, then make some up! You could easily asking racing drivers to design tracks. I would expect so. Late in 1993 we had already sussed F1GP and were modifying car colours and helmets, power, etc. Its never been a question of "is it possible?", its "when will it be possible?" Without source code, it takes time to unravel file formats and now we're getting to grips with them, it won't be long. Gerhard seems to have the lead on this as he has managed to un-compile the DAT files to alter them for the converters. Yes, creating a track is difficult. First you need to define co-ordinates for polygons, place them so you don't get gaps, calculate hidden lines/faces, define zones walls etc. Then you've got to create/assign textures, define whats grass and tarmac. Lastly you've got to embedd the track AI for drver aids, correct racing lines and program the code for the AI cars to follow. Few! Is that all! I think that once a DAT file is decompiled into its raw chunks and tables then we can start to work on an editor. Sadly, I don't know what was used to compile the DAT files so I can't begin to unravel them. Gerhard, at present is leading the way but, be it because he is on compuserve or is for some reason reluctant, he doesn't seem to want to talk or release his finding. Its a shame, because with the combined knowledge on the 'net, if we all put our minds together, I don't think it would take that long. Jed The Pits www.ukps.com/thepits www.fwb.gulf.net/~jkohl/thepits

Yeah, I really couldn't agree more. Playing on the Indy tracks is excellent, and I like to say a huge thanks to all the people, such as Gehard, who have taken a little (lot?) time to program such useful utilities. Playing the Papyrus games is much better when you can relate to it. I was just wondering, would it be possible to write an editor to edit the 3DO and PMP files [the advertising hoardings], then it would be a truly engrossing experience! -- --------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------

Quoted text (9 lines)

>> _LOADS_ more congratulations to Gerhard.....anyone know an E-mail >> address for him? >Yeah, I really couldn't agree more. Playing on the Indy tracks is excellent, and I like to say a huge >thanks to all the people, such as Gehard, who have taken a little (lot?) time to program such useful >utilities. Playing the Papyrus games is much better when you can relate to it. >I was just wondering, would it be possible to write an editor to edit the 3DO and PMP files [the >advertising hoardings], then it would be a truly engrossing experience!

I'd like to be able to change the engine sound. It would be much nicer to have the screaming V6 from the Mondeo :-) Steve.

JJ> I did have it. I've lost it but someone's finding for me... Cheers. JJ> Yes, creating a track is difficult. JJ> First you need to define co-ordinates for polygons, place them so JJ> you don't get gaps, calculate hidden lines/faces, define zones walls JJ> etc. JJ> Then you've got to create/assign textures, define whats grass and JJ> tarmac. JJ> Lastly you've got to embedd the track AI for drver aids, correct JJ> racing lines and program the code for the AI cars to follow. JJ> Few! Is that all! Mmmm - but with whole chunks already done - it's got to be quicker.....not only can you use the trees, adverts, textures, armco of existing tracks (I assume) but couldn't you "chop up" bits of circuits (if you can take the code apart) and re-configure them? Afterwards you'd have to go for a uniform surface etc (although not so with a lot of circuits come to think of it). I'm making this up as I go along.....but say you're trying to create Donnington. The run up towards the Corkscrew is pretty similar to Cascades into the Old Hairpin if you could reverse it, no? This could cut the work down a lot, no? Me, I'm no programmer - I play these sims and watch the stuff for real.....closer than many since I'm often there officially to pick up the pieces.....so I'll sit back now and wait for those who actually know what they're talking about to come up with the goods.... B-) Go for it! Cheers! --- * RM 1.3 U0414 * Okay, I pulled the pin. Now what? Where are you going?

It's already been done as far as I know from my e-mail "chats" with Gerhard. There also exists programs to convert replays into .LP files and all kinds of other goodies. Currently looking at allowing those NASCAR dudes to run a "Brickyard 400". The Eliminator coming to you real soon.... _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ -=Ayrton Senna=- \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ Racing is in my ***, it's part of me \::/ \._______\

Well send me a good clean 25 second ish sample and I'll patch it for you. Jed The Pits www.ukps.com/thepits www.fwb.gulf.net/~jkohl/thepits

>>I was just wondering, would it be possible to write an editor to edit the 3DO >>and PMP files [the >>advertising hoardings], then it would be a truly engrossing experience! >It's already been done as far as I know from my e-mail "chats" with >Gerhard. Yes! While I struggle to get mine to work! I *really* wish Gerhard would work WITH people! ;-) That way we might get a track editor written! At it'll probably be at The Pits soon! Jed The Pits www.ukps.com/thepits www.fwb.gulf.net/~jkohl/thepits

>Waaaahhhh! I just snarfed a copy of icr2nas from The Pits mirror site >and the one thing it did NOT convert was Laguna Seca! What was I missing? I've got not idea! It works fine here! Have you installed the tracks to the Hard disk and not CD? Usually. I find that road cars are better at low speed than single seaters because the weight helps keep the power under control. In most cases, aerodynmics, wings etc only come into play at around 80mph. Thats why a nascar can probably take a slow corner as fast as an Indycar. >-- >Brian Wong Systems Engineering Group (Servers) Jed The Pits www.ukps.com/thepits www.fwb.gulf.net/~jkohl/thepits

I agree with you Toby...we've been fool by Papyrus!!!! Viva Gerhard and Viva Grand Prix II!!!!

Quoted text (41 lines)

> Hee Heee Heeeeeeeee!!! > I've just been watching a replay from "Nascar".....after an appaulingly > badly driven exploratory lap my very battered privateer BMW was > superby outbraked by a factory Vauxhall Cavalier in the Corkscrew - > putting me right off so I went wide into the dirt allowing an Alpha 155 > to whisk past as well! > BRILLIANT!!! > Yes, I've just been playing with Gerhard Lingenbergs latest offering, > and have converted Laguna Seca across from ICR2. Naturally I'm not > driving one of those horrible Chevys.....the BTCC car set is far more > fun! > OK it'll never happen - the 1995 BTCC circus will never race for real at > Laguna Seca. But I'm having a lot of fun - certainly resurected Nascar > for me since I'd abandoned it as soon as I got ICR2. > Two messages from this..... > _LOADS_ more congratulations to Gerhard.....anyone know an E-mail > address for him? > BOO to Papyrus.....I'd asked about this.....and Rick Genter said it > _couldn't_ be done. Not we're not going to bother. Hee Hee - imagine the > marketing possibilities (even as a direct postal sale to enthusiasts > avoiding packaging costs, etc) they've lost. And that's just the > comercial aspect.....far more this demonstrates what can be done to > "their" programming.....are we going to see the full range of add-ons, > editors, etc appearing completely out of Papyruses control? Makes me > wonder just what track editing/creating involves.....after all they > (through Rick Genter) have suggested this can't be done as an add-on > either..... > It's a thought! B-) B-) B-) > Cheers! > --- > * RM 1.3 U0414 * OS/2 - The only true 100% FAT free operating system.

Quoted text (9 lines)

>Hee Heee Heeeeeeeee!!! >I've just been watching a replay from "Nascar".....after an appaulingly >badly driven exploratory lap my very battered privateer BMW was >superby outbraked by a factory Vauxhall Cavalier in the Corkscrew - >putting me right off so I went wide into the dirt allowing an Alpha 155 >to whisk past as well! >BRILLIANT!!!

Waaaahhhh! I just snarfed a copy of icr2nas from The Pits mirror site and the one thing it did NOT convert was Laguna Seca! What was I missing? I noticed that at Vancouver, Toronto and Long Beach, the NASCARs have better low-speed handling than IndyCars, something at surprised me. (They do have much more weight--is that what it is?) On the other hand, IndyCars have a lot fo downforce in the medium and high-speed corners, so they do those a LOT better... -- Brian Wong Systems Engineering Group (Servers)

I think that the reasons they couldn't do a BTCC game are: 1, The tracks would all need modelling (BIG job for all the circuits as they are all road tracks obviously) 2, The cars are all different shapes so they'd need some way of shaping the chassis 3, Papurus are from the US. The amount of work required to do a British series would be hard. Mind you, when all's said and done, once they'd done the BTCC they could just make an Indycar set for F3/FV etc... Max

MG> 1, The tracks would all need modelling (BIG job for all the circuits MG> as they are all road tracks obviously) So they say.....but then again _they_ said that Nascar tracks couldn't be converted to ICR and visa versa because the colours, the positions, the AI, the speeds, etc would be all wrong..... Stand up Gerhard Lingeberg!!! So.....what next from the hackers.....improvers!?! Cheers! --- * RM 1.3 U0414 * Error - File not found. Fake it? [Y/N]

>Mmmm - but with whole chunks already done - it's got to be >quicker.....not only can you use the trees, adverts, textures, armco of >existing tracks (I assume) but couldn't you "chop up" bits of circuits >(if you can take the code apart) and re-configure them? Afterwards you'd >have to go for a uniform surface etc (although not so with a lot of >circuits come to think of it). It's not quite that simple. Yes, we could use existing objects etc but using parts of other tracks is no that easy. Firstly one part of a track may be at 600ft above sea level and another at 120ft. Matching these up without a step is difficult. Secondly, creating a track is progressive and its easier to start at one point and move to the next than "cut and paste" bits of others. Good point to make, but difficult to implement. A lot of work, as well as having to reprogram the racing lines, braking points, et all! ;-) Well, I'll be suprised if we havent got an editor of some sort together within 6 months. Jed The Pits www.ukps.com/thepits www.fwb.gulf.net/~jkohl/thepits

Err...Why? Rob. -- rob. "If you fingers ain't bleeding you ain't playing hard enough" -- Rory Gallaher

>Oh you're so NEGATIVE. Nah! Not really, I'm a realist. I gave up programming for a living because I got fed up of deadlines and requests to do the impossible. I wish! I reckon it could be done quicker! Theres a small pocket of people on the InfoBahn who have the combined knowledge to do it quickly. The main problem seems to be Gerhard! ;-) He is the person who has progressed the furthest but at present, he seems reluctant to talk or share his utils and findings with anyone. Either he's a very shy person or is planning to write and editor and sell it! ;-) Whatever, if like Linux, we all get together, its not impossible. I'm currently trying to find a good sample of a V6 engine for my sound patch for Nascar. I'm trying to change the sound for the BTCC carset and, hopefully, If it doesn't crash, I've redesigned the***pit too. Gerhard and I are both working to decode the format of 3DO objects and find the chunk of data that contains the track data. I know the programming technique used to creat the tracks it just a question of getting the data out and decoding it. Still, now we've got all the converters ready, we can start to work on this a little more. >Cheers! >--- > * RM 1.3 U0414 * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic!

Quoted text (15 lines)

> Pardon my ignorance, but could someone explain to me what BTCC is all > about? It stands for British Touring Car Circuit, perhaps? > I'm curious about the kind of car that would run in this series. I > can't imagine you Brits running anything close to a NASCAR behemoth; > most of your cars would fit in their trunks (boots). :) > Is this series open class, or are there divisions or classes, > displacement restrictions, etc? Any info would be appreciated... > -- > Neil Yeatman, Ajax, Ontario, CANADA > Live music is better; bumper stickers should be issued! > Neil Young - Union Man, from Hawks and Doves, 1980

Your wish is my command... BTCC stands for British Touring Car Championship. Basically, it is what we Yanks would call a "mid-sized sedan"...in another words, a regular "family" car. The BTCC series regulars drive Ford Mondeos (same as our Contour) Vauxhall Cavaliers (this year will be a Vectra...), BMW 3-series, Alfa Romeo, Renault Lagunas, Peugot ???, Toyota Carina, and Honda Accords. As far as what they run, the 2.0 litre is the max I believe. Cheers! ??Jan Kohl?? **Mad Yanks Racing Team** Computer Systems Programmer USAF Air-Ground Operations School Hurlburt Field, FL <<http://www.fwb.gulf.net/~jkohl/index.html>>

Didn't you forget Volvo 850? It's incredible to see a station wagon in a Touring race. Apparently it handled better than their other "short" models... --- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Folco Banfi University of Fribourg, Switzerland Tel. +41.37.29.84.73 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is is, and isn't isn't... ********************************************************************************

You sure can't beat Lagunas at Laguna ;-) Anyway, on to the point... is there a patch available for icr2ncar so that the car don't behave so unusually at Long Beach and Mid-Ohio, among other places? -- --------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------

Quoted text (9 lines)

> >BTCC stands for British Touring Car Championship. Basically, it is what we > >Yanks would call a "mid-sized sedan"...in another words, a regular "family" > >car. The BTCC series regulars drive Ford Mondeos (same as our Contour) > >Vauxhall Cavaliers (this year will be a Vectra...), BMW 3-series, Alfa Romeo, > >Renault Lagunas, Peugot ???, Toyota Carina, and Honda Accords. As far > >as what they run, the 2.0 litre is the max I believe. > Didn't you forget Volvo 850? It's incredible to see a station wagon in a Touring > race. Apparently it handled better than their other "short" models...

Sorry, forgot the Volvos...however, in the BTCC series, you can no longer use a station wagon...only a regular coupe. ??Jan Kohl?? **Mad Yanks Racing Team** Computer Systems Programmer USAF Air-Ground Operations School Hurlburt Field, FL <<http://www.fwb.gulf.net/~jkohl/index.html>>

And the reason being that putting a wing on an estate car would put it outside the area allowed for a wing. Volvo said that the Estate was more aerodynamic than the saloon but the new 1995 wing rules prevented them from using it again. A bit more info. The BTCC cars can only run modified version of the cars standard engine and are limited to max revs of about 5800rpm (I think). The suspension must be of the same type as the road car but can be modified to use racing parts. Jed The Pits www.ukps.com/thepits www.fwb.gulf.net/~jkohl/thepits

Quoted text (17 lines)

>Subject: Re: BTCC at Laguna >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 10:25:48 GMT >>Sorry, forgot the Volvos...however, in the BTCC series, you can no longer use >>a station wagon...only a regular coupe. >And the reason being that putting a wing on an estate car would put it >outside the area allowed for a wing. >Volvo said that the Estate was more aerodynamic than the saloon but >the new 1995 wing rules prevented them from using it again. >A bit more info. The BTCC cars can only run modified version of the >cars standard engine and are limited to max revs of about 5800rpm (I >think). >The suspension must be of the same type as the road car but can be >modified to use racing parts. >Jed >The Pits >www.ukps.com/thepits >www.fwb.gulf.net/~jkohl/thepits

------The cars are allowed higher revs than that, and they can also use other engines; an example is the Ford Mondeo which has been running a V6, originally a Mazda engine. (ford owns Mazda). Horsepower is around 280. Brakes, shocks, etc are modified or swapped entirely. The basic suspension setup cannot be changed. Matthew Knutsen