Race Sim Central
Rec.Autos.Simulators Archive

Pacejka's Magic Formula - more questions

1 post by 1 person · 27 Sep 2004 14:51 UTC - 27 Sep 2004 14:51 UTC

Matt Verona 27 Sep 2004 14:51 UTC#31238
Hi guys, I was having problems computing slip ratio (SR) and slip angle at time = 0, when my simulated vehicle starts from rest, with the throttling torque applied at that instant � i.e., the problematic zero terms in the denominator of the slip ratio and slip angle equations, due to a vehicle at rest at time = 0 (when the initial acceleration torque is applied) I did a Google search and found lots of postings related to this problem... I listed the known solutions below, for your review: 1. Artificially limit the long. speed that you use in the slip calculations to some minimum value in order to prevent the infinities popping up. 2. More advanced are DE-based approaches like that described in this paper: "SAE 950311 - 'Tire Modeling for Low-Speed and High-Speed Calculations'" which is available from the SAE website (but not for free). 3. The Barnard way of indirecting SR. (so SR gets updated using an indirect tan(SR) based on the wheel spin velocity). This gets the feel of 'rubber building up'. 4. Just ignore the (quick) rubber force buildup and accelerate the wheel. With SR=0 at the first timestep, no counterforce will be present. The NEXT step though, SR will be >0 (probably even infinite) and a force will push from the road back onto the tire. Eventually, you'll reach a balance. If your timestep is small enough, it will bounce back & forth but look good onscreen. 5. SAE paper (98-something) looks at the tire as a 3D spring. So longitudinally, you let the wheel spin and this creates a force because the tire ofcourse also works as a spring in longitudinal direction. When that is found, it is verified against the friction circle, and if the force is really not possible (too much amplitude), then the force is reduced to the edge of the circle and the spring offset is adjusted (shifted) accordingly (it's a predictor-corrector method). I think I'll try approach #3 above first, since it seems to be reasonably elegant, with the minimal amount of work (LOL)... Then I'll try the proposed DE-based approach (#2 above, SAE 950311) Does anyone know of other fix-ups for starting simulations when SR and slip angle are undefined, using the classical formulation given here: http://www.bartellmotorsports.com/part21.pdf I assume that my tire force algorithm is similar to the Pacejka approach, in that both models use a polynomial fit to empirical data, and take slip, slip angle, normal load, and stiffness as inputs. Have you seen this force model before? http://code.eng.buffalo.edu/dat/sites/tire/tire.html The algorithm requires one iteration to recompute the forces, since the contact patch length requires Fx, which is zero on the first pass... then it converges to the correct value on the second iteration. This approach is based on Szostak's paper "Analytical Modeling of Driver Response in Crash Avoidance Maneuvering Volume II: An Interactive Model for Driver/Vehicle Simulation". I bought this publication from NIST - it's an excellent concise source for tire force theory with derivations - published in 1988. I wonder how this model compares with Pacejka's Magic Formula, in terms of accuracy? FYI, I'm working on a real-time, virtual reality human-powered vehicle simulation, using Open Inventor for the 3d graphics interface. Here's the preliminary web site for the project: http://cubex.temp.powweb.com/ We have the Open Inventor scene graph fully defined (using Planet 9 Studio's Austin, Texas Open Inventor model)... I can move the bicycle around in 3-d space with the fixed cameras propagating correctly as the bike moves... the last step is getting the bike to propagate realistically, using the Szostak force model, and the 5-DOF bicycle EOMs given on this web site: http://code.eng.buffalo.edu/dat/sit...el/bicycle.html As seen in the above paper, Equation #5 for angular acceleration of the back wheel requires Fx. So I'll use the tan(SR) approach (#3 above) when the bike is just starting from rest, with zero speed and the pedal torque applied at time = 0, to compute the initial Fx, with Fy = 0 in the beginning (i.e., assume Vy = 0 at time zero)... What do you think? ~Matt Verona Houston, Texas ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Sponsors

Affiliate Links

Sim Gaming Expo MOZA Racing Sim-Lab Fanatec TrakRacer Asetek Internet Privacy From NordVPN Dreamhost Capital One Credit Card Application Fanatical CDKeys Amazon Amazon UK Project Motor Racing iRacing Get your racing gloves, boots and more from Demon Tweeks. Enlist at Roberts Space Industries, developers of Star Citizen and Squadron 42


Back from the ashes since July, 2019. First created in 2001 with the merger of Legends Central (founded 1999) and simracing.dk.

A site by a sort of sim racer, for sim racers, about racing sims. News and information on both modern and historic sim racing software titles.

All products and licenses property of their respective owners.


Facebook Threads Bluesky Twitter Mastodon Instagram YouTube Tiktok Twitch Reddit Google News Apple News Subscribe via WordPress Flipboard eBay

Race Sim Central © 1999-2026 | Some links pay RSC a commission. Advertising does not equal endorsement.Cookie Policy