Help! Programming a simulator...

Hi, I am currently working on a programming project to program a simulator. I have a book titled "Flights of Fantasy". Its great help, but I need a little more. The simulator I am writing is to train locomotive cab drivers how to operate a cab. I know, this is not the right place to ask (oops! Here comes the flame.....). But I am using alot of methods and techniques borrowed from playing flight and car simulators. What I want to know is, how minimal I can get away with with hardware and software and still remain effective? In other words, should I just use pure software (ie. PC/Mac and joystick) or a mock-up of the entire interior - be it cab,***pit or tub. I can use any information related to flight, car or railway simulators. Please point me to a web, ftp site, reading material etc etc. Thanks a million in advance. Andrew.

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> Hi, > I am currently working on a programming project to program a simulator. I > have a book titled "Flights of Fantasy". Its great help, but I need a little > more. The simulator I am writing is to train locomotive cab drivers how to > operate a cab. I know, this is not the right place to ask (oops! Here comes > the flame.....). But I am using alot of methods and techniques borrowed from > playing flight and car simulators. > What I want to know is, how minimal I can get away with with hardware and > software and still remain effective? In other words, should I just use pure > software (ie. PC/Mac and joystick) or a mock-up of the entire interior -

be it > cab,***pit or tub. > I can use any information related to flight, car or railway simulators. Please > point me to a web, ftp site, reading material etc etc. > Thanks a million in advance. > Andrew. Andrew, I worked for 26 years in the field of flight simulation. I worked as a technician for the first 11 years, and the next 15 as an engineer doing design and testing of aircraft simulators for the military, airlines, and air frame manufacturers. I retired due to medical reasons last February. The question you ask, software vs. hardware, is one constantly debated in the industry. Generally, the more complex environment being simulated is better served by a hardware solution which results in greater training benefits. A software solution can generally provide substantial benefits for even a complex environment when the items to be simulated and trained in are limited to procedural ones. However, this does not mean that _no_ benefit can be derived from simulating a complex environment (say an aircraft or train locomotive). A very positive benefit of software solutions is familiarity with the tasks being simulated. A general "look" of the environment (cockpit or cab) can be of great help in training people what to look for. The "feel" is what is lacking in the software solution. For instance, take F/A-18 Hornet and A-10 Attack! Even those of us who truly enjoy these games on a computer (say, a Mac) almost all agree that the games are much more playable when a partial hardware solution is added, a stick of some sort and perhaps even a throttle and rudder pedals. But it isn't just the enjoyment level which is increased. Adding some elements of a hardware solution helps the game to become more of a true simulation. I have more than 10,000 hours "flying" real simulators (from fighters and bombers to military and civil transports) and can attest that the more realistic the simulated environment the greater training benefit. I have also spent thousands of hours running simulations in front of a computer screen. From an engineering point of view a software solution is acceptable. But when I tried the above mentioned Mac flight sims using just the keyboard, mouse and screen it was almost like an engineering simulation. Interesting, to be sure, even intriguing and a good platform to _learn_ about the airplane in question, but not particularly useful for operational training. However, when I added a stick and throttle the experience turned into one with definite elements of a true simulation. Multiple screens would help, say one each for the forward and side control panels, and up to 8 for the out the window views. Real switches and indicators would improve it even more, as would a cab-motion system or G-seat. But, this is a home machine I am talking about here. Stick, throttle, the one screen (until I can add a couple more), and the keyboard & mouse will suffice. I currently have less than $5000 invested in my flight simulators. And when I am not flying I can use the system for other things. Like earing money! A "full flight simulator" for just one of these planes (A-10) goes for upwards of $10,000,000 and costs well over $5000/month to operate and maintain. I think my home system is good enough. It is entertaining and even has significant value as a simulator. Mind you, I am not about to go jump into a real F/A-18 Hornet and put my life at risk (not to mention those in my flight path). For me, though, it is close enough to the real thing to have intrinsic value. But, if you are asking about training real locomotive cab operators to run a multi-ton locomotive cab and train on the railroads that cross the streets I drive on, I would urge you to consider the liability of faulty (even if unintentional) training. Contact one of the companies that build simulators for industry. If you just want the locomotive cab operators to learn how to operate some non-safety related addition to their cab, I say, "Go for it." Caryn -- "Kick the Tires. Light the Fires. First one off is Lead." - my Daddy the Colonel -- visit me at: <URL:[link lost in import] Seattle Web Factory: <URL:[link lost in import] ***Corps: <URL:[link lost in import: /***/scorpsboard.html]>

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>Hi, > I am currently working on a programming project to program a simulator. I >have a book titled "Flights of Fantasy". Its great help, but I need a little >more. The simulator I am writing is to train locomotive cab drivers how to >operate a cab. I know, this is not the right place to ask (oops! Here comes >the flame.....). But I am using alot of methods and techniques borrowed from >playing flight and car simulators. >What I want to know is, how minimal I can get away with with hardware and >software and still remain effective? In other words, should I just use pure >software (ie. PC/Mac and joystick) or a mock-up of the entire interior - be it >cab,***pit or tub. >I can use any information related to flight, car or railway simulators. Please >point me to a web, ftp site, reading material etc etc. >Thanks a million in advance. >Andrew.

I have that book also. Most of it is good stuff, but the implementation of Bresenham's algorithm is wrong - this affects both line drawing and polygon rendering (which is based on it). You might like to take a look at the following: "The Black Art of 3D Game Programming" by Andre LaMothe Waite Group Press - ISBN 1-57169-004-2 "Building a 3D Game Engine in C++" by Brian Hook Wiley - ISBN 0-471-12326-9 Black Art is the best all round 3D games book (in my opinion), but the other book has a much better explanation and implementation of the maths involved. You might also like to try rec.games.programmer which will probably have all the information you might need.

Andew, I am too working on a simulation project in my spare time. Ours is a flight simulator for low- end pilot training, and is based on distributed PCs. Some books that may be of interest are listed below. Aircraft control and simulation by Brian L Stevens and Frank L.Lewis Develops a 6DOF flight model) * John Wiley and Sons Modeling flight in IEEE Potentials April 1990 Simulation of Aircraft by Mark Connelly, MIT Introduction to flight by J.D. Anderson McGraw Hill Airplane Performance, Stability and Control by C.Perkins and R.E.Page Wiley 1994 (Supposed to be very comprehensive) Dynamics of atmospheric flight by B.Etkin Wiley 1972 Theory of Flight by R.Von Mises * Dover 1959 Flight Simulation by Rolfe and Staples * Cambridge University Press 1986 I hope these titles are of use to you. James

Hey guys, if you are interested in direct support for your sims for joysticks and rudders and throttle and ... contact me. We do the software for CH and we have a nice API letting you read the devices input direct. The API is open and maybe will be adopted by other vendors as well... -- ******************************************************************* Guido K?rber - Programmer and hardware hacker fax: x49-30-773 81 36 Ask me about: Flightstick Pro, Jetstick MacEnjoy, MacEnjoy Style Opinions expressed herein are mine unless expressly stated otherwise. Similarities with living or undead persons are coincidence and not intended - really! ;-) Best use before: (see date printed on backside of message) *******************************************************************

There's an interesting book by the Waite Group entitled 'Flights of Fantasy' that is really good information. It covers all aspects of developing a simulator. It comes with a disk of 'c' source code. The aircraft model is a something like a biplane, maybe a Camel. I compiled it, but I am unsatisfied with the flight model. Do you have any idea where I could get a 'c' source code module for a Cessna 172? I'm building an instrument panel with stepper motor converted instruments and I need the flight model. > Andew, >I am too working on a simulation project in my spare time. Ours is a flight simulator >for low- end pilot training, and is based on distributed PCs. Some books that may be of

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>interest are listed below. > Aircraft control and simulation by Brian L Stevens and Frank L.Lewis > Develops a 6DOF flight model) * > John Wiley and Sons > Modeling flight in IEEE Potentials April 1990 > Simulation of Aircraft by Mark Connelly, MIT > Introduction to flight by J.D. Anderson > McGraw Hill > Airplane Performance, Stability and Control by C.Perkins and > R.E.Page > Wiley 1994 (Supposed to be very comprehensive) > Dynamics of atmospheric flight by B.Etkin > Wiley 1972 > Theory of Flight by R.Von Mises * > Dover 1959 > Flight Simulation by Rolfe and Staples * > Cambridge University Press 1986 > I hope these titles are of use to you. >James