Nascar realism

I'm purely guessing here (don't slay me Rick G!) that because the physics model slows you down on grass, it slows that particular tyre and not the rest causing your outside edge to move faster that the side on the grass and push you round. When I've driven cars for real and clipped grass I tend to straightline. I've never had a car "swing around" on me before. Yeah! I reckon it's why so many peopl have damn fast laps around tracks. In Indycar 1, you could use it to slignshot around the fast bend before the corkscrew. Another thing I'd like to see is improved simulation of tyre screech. I've driven around with constant tyre noise when I'm nowhere near the limit! Surely the physics model knows when your approaching, on and over the limit. I'd love to get the classic "Squeak near, Squeal on, and Squall over" sounds with tyres. Spins would be more realistic. If you've ever heard a race cars spind for real it's the sound of the tyres squalling which add the the sensation. Here Here! Jed The Pits www.ukps.com/thepits

One slight bother when I`m racing in nascar, is what happens when you put your inside wheel on the grass while going round a bend. What happens is that the car "pulls" towards the inside, or oversteers fiercely. I find this unrealistic: the car should respond by sliding outwards, as it only has 50% of the traction it should. Mind you, it can be really useful, especially at Sears point, leading up to the Caroussel... This type of behavoiur is o.k if all four wheels are on the grass. One thisng that Mr. Genter also should seriously consider, is that when you travel across grass on hot slicks, the car will definitely lose traction for a few hundred metres. It is far too tempting to "cheat" to achieve fast lap times on the road courses....I do not know if these phenomenon occur in Indycar, though. **Thanks for giving us a REALLY GOOD game, Papyrus!!!!*** *******FEAR#23!********

Birger Patri Knutsen) writes: >One slight bother when I`m racing in nascar, is what happens when you put your >inside wheel on the grass while going round a bend. What happens is that the >car "pulls" towards the inside, or oversteers fiercely. I find this >unrealistic: the car should respond by sliding outwards, as it only has 50% of >the traction it should. Mind you, it can be really useful, especially at Sears >point, leading up to the Caroussel... This type of behavoiur is o.k if all >four wheels are on the grass. One thisng that Mr. Genter also should >seriously consider, is that when you travel across grass on hot slicks, the >car will definitely lose traction for a few hundred metres. It is far too >tempting to "cheat" to achieve fast lap times on the road courses....I do not

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>know if these phenomenon occur in Indycar, though. >**Thanks for giving us a REALLY GOOD game, Papyrus!!!!*** >*******FEAR#23!********

I don't know if you've driven a race car on a track, but I have, and let me tell you, stick that LF wheel on the grass (or flat asphalt) and you will spin quickly. What happens is the LF will drop, thus pulling the weight off of the RR and then your gone. Not fun in a real car. Mike

JJ> Another thing I'd like to see is improved simulation of tyre JJ> screech. JJ> I've driven around with constant tyre noise when I'm nowhere near JJ> the limit! Surely the physics model knows when your approaching, on JJ> and over the limit. I'd love to get the classic "Squeak near, Squeal JJ> on, and Squall over" sounds with tyres. Spins would be more JJ> realistic. I'm with you on this. Loads of frustrations with ICR2, but some are perhaps resolving...... Does the car sometimes slide.....particularly all or just the fronts.....with no indication from the game other than the car diving into a wall? I'm familiar with braking apparently in the same place from the same speed and the car just going straight on (eg start-finish of the Glen or top of the hill at Laguna). No tyre squeal in the game. No smaoke etc on the replays. I'm wondering if the physics model is simulating a locked- up slide, but the sim isn't telling you? I know what you mean about the tyre screech sometimes bearing little connection with whether you slide on a corner....but does the opposite also apply? Could this be "improved" with a patch for a newer version Rick? Cheers! --- * RM 1.3 U0414 * Always proof read carefully to see if you any words out.

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>Subject: Re: Nascar realism >Date: 22 Jan 1996 19:31:48 GMT >Birger Patri Knutsen) writes: >>One slight bother when I`m racing in nascar, is what happens when you >put your >>inside wheel on the grass while going round a bend. What happens is >that the >>car "pulls" towards the inside, or oversteers fiercely. I find this >>unrealistic: the car should respond by sliding outwards, as it only >has 50% of >>the traction it should. Mind you, it can be really useful, especially >at Sears >>point, leading up to the Caroussel... This type of behavoiur is o.k if >all >>four wheels are on the grass. One thisng that Mr. Genter also should >>seriously consider, is that when you travel across grass on hot >slicks, the >>car will definitely lose traction for a few hundred metres. It is far >too >>tempting to "cheat" to achieve fast lap times on the road courses....I >do not >>know if these phenomenon occur in Indycar, though. >>**Thanks for giving us a REALLY GOOD game, Papyrus!!!!*** >>*******FEAR#23!******** >I don't know if you've driven a race car on a track, but I have, and >let me tell you, stick that LF wheel on the grass (or flat asphalt) and >you will spin quickly. What happens is the LF will drop, thus pulling >the weight off of the RR and then your gone. >Not fun in a real car. >Mike

Hi Mike! Actually, I am a part-time racer, part-time mechanic in a race car team, and have tried lots of different race cars (#23 is me). I think you have misunderstood me slightly: O.K, an example. Turn 1 at Watkins Glen. When I turn in, I am travelling at 70 MPH+, at the apex, the LR an LF tires support much more load than the RH tires (because of horizontal G-loads, and chassis roll) If I hit a patch of oil with my RH tires only, this would not have an extreme effect on the balance of the car in the middle of the turn. If I hit the oil with my LH tires, I would lose grip, and spin. When I race in real life, many of the turns on the tracks I run at can be negotiated quicker if you put your inside wheels over the (flat only) kerbs or grass verge, making a smoother line through the turn, and scrubbing off less speed. I currently run on grooved tires: I would use this technique to a smaller extent if I was running slicks. If I try the same manovre in NASCAR (back to turn 1), the car oversteers, and pulls to the right with the front, while all physic laws say that I lose some grip, and the centrifugal force rather should "pull" the car to the left. If I was in a wild slide, with lots of opposite lock when I put my wheels on the grass, the loss of RH traction would snap the car the other way (still to the left) because of the grip being on the loaded side. I hope some of this makes sense.... Cheers, Matt

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> >Subject: Re: Nascar realism > >Date: 22 Jan 1996 19:31:48 GMT > >Birger Patri Knutsen) writes: > >>One slight bother when I`m racing in nascar, is what happens when you > >put your > >>inside wheel on the grass while going round a bend. What happens is > >that the > >>car "pulls" towards the inside, or oversteers fiercely. I find this > >>unrealistic: the car should respond by sliding outwards, as it only > >has 50% of > >>the traction it should. Mind you, it can be really useful, especially > >at Sears > >>point, leading up to the Caroussel... This type of behavoiur is o.k if > >all > >>four wheels are on the grass. One thisng that Mr. Genter also should > >>seriously consider, is that when you travel across grass on hot > >slicks, the > >>car will definitely lose traction for a few hundred metres. It is far > >too > >>tempting to "cheat" to achieve fast lap times on the road courses....I > >do not > >>know if these phenomenon occur in Indycar, though.

From my experience with ICR1, when driving in a curve on a track, if you slightly touch the grass you just "bump" like if you were touching a "vibreur" <- don't know the english word !!!, if you put the whole wheel on the grass and keep it there 1 or 2 sec. then you oversteer and eventually spin, and I agree with you this is not logical unless there is something happening with the rear wheel that I don't understand ? Finally, if you put the whole car on the grass then you logically lose traction, understeer... and go back on the track with a dangerous lateral speed though !!! And as you said, since there is no damage to the tires, this can be helpful: for example I do "cheat" in Portland at the end of the straight line by going 4 wheels on the grass inside the curve to finish my late braking while turning...

Birger Patri Knutsen) writes:

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>>Subject: Re: Nascar realism >>Date: 22 Jan 1996 19:31:48 GMT >>Birger Patri Knutsen) writes: >>>One slight bother when I`m racing in nascar, is what happens when

you

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>>put your >>>inside wheel on the grass while going round a bend. What happens is >>that the >>>car "pulls" towards the inside, or oversteers fiercely. I find this >>>unrealistic: the car should respond by sliding outwards, as it only >>has 50% of >>>the traction it should. Mind you, it can be really useful,

especially >>at Sears >>>point, leading up to the Caroussel... This type of behavoiur is o.k if >>all >>>four wheels are on the grass. One thisng that Mr. Genter also should >>>seriously consider, is that when you travel across grass on hot >>slicks, the >>>car will definitely lose traction for a few hundred metres. It is far >>too >>>tempting to "cheat" to achieve fast lap times on the road courses....I

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>>do not >>>know if these phenomenon occur in Indycar, though. >>>**Thanks for giving us a REALLY GOOD game, Papyrus!!!!*** >>>*******FEAR#23!******** >>I don't know if you've driven a race car on a track, but I have, and >>let me tell you, stick that LF wheel on the grass (or flat asphalt)

and

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>>you will spin quickly. What happens is the LF will drop, thus pulling >>the weight off of the RR and then your gone. >>Not fun in a real car. >>Mike > Hi Mike! > Actually, I am a part-time racer, part-time mechanic in a race

car team, and >have tried lots of different race cars (#23 is me). I think you have >misunderstood me slightly: O.K, an example. Turn 1 at Watkins Glen. When I >turn in, I am travelling at 70 MPH+, at the apex, the LR an LF tires support >much more load than the RH tires (because of horizontal G-loads, and chassis >roll) If I hit a patch of oil with my RH tires only, this would not have an >extreme effect on the balance of the car in the middle of the turn. If I hit >the oil with my LH tires, I would lose grip, and spin. When I race in real >life, many of the turns on the tracks I run at can be negotiated quicker if >you put your inside wheels over the (flat only) kerbs or grass verge, making a >smoother line through the turn, and scrubbing off less speed. I currently run >on grooved tires: I would use this technique to a smaller extent if I was >running slicks. If I try the same manovre in NASCAR (back to turn 1), the car >oversteers, and pulls to the right with the front, while all physic laws say >that I lose some grip, and the centrifugal force rather should "pull" the car >to the left. If I was in a wild slide, with lots of opposite lock when I put >my wheels on the grass, the loss of RH traction would snap the car the other >way (still to the left) because of the grip being on the loaded side. > I hope some of this makes sense.... > Cheers, > Matt Matt- I see your point now. I was thinking ovals. Thats how us "roundy rounders" think. ;-) Mike

>Subject: Re: Nascar realism >Date: 31 Jan 1996 14:42:34 GMT ) >Matt- >I see your point now. I was thinking ovals. Thats how us "roundy >rounders" think. ;-) >Mike O.K - now I see your point! Oval racing is totally strange to me - I think the challenge is much greater because you don`t have any landmarks to go by when braking, turning in etc. I really feel this in NR - I can manage one really good lap, and the next is extremely hopeless. Only one I seem to get right in NR is Martinsville, where there are some "visual aids". I`d just love to try it out in real life - only problem is that the nearest oval suited for cars is - you guessed it - across a large splash of water. Anyway, they are starting a series over here (Norway - not supposed to be inhabitated) called Norscar- for pre `81 U.S cars, based on NASCAR-like rules. And they are also lobbying severly for allowing us to use the horse race tracks again, like we could in the 60`s. Mind you, they are only dirt tracks, and I like tarmac. They had a race on a horse track in Sweden last year for the Scandinavian Camaro Cup - it was a thrill!! Pity they could only run 5 cars for 10 laps at a time... Matt.