ICR2 - Can't stay on the track!

I have just bought ICR2 and am having trouble just completing a few laps, I am using a Thrustmaster 2 wheel & pedals combo with auto, damage off etc... is driving a real Indycar as hard as this simulation? Does anyone have any further hints on staying on the track? The car seems to understeer on everytrack. I can break lap records etc.. on need for speed! so what am I doing wrong? FRUSTRATED

>I have just bought ICR2 and am having trouble just completing a few >laps, I am using a Thrustmaster 2 wheel & pedals combo with auto, >damage off etc... is driving a real Indycar as hard as this simulation? Yes at first. It does take a while to adjust to sensitivity in steering, etc. Firstly, I'm assuming that before you used keys or a joystick for ICR2. I used a T2 for the first time a few nights ago and it took me 15 attempts to get around turn 1! Ask Steve, he was in hysterics! Basically I was wrenching the wheel around like an arcade game and causing the car to spin or go into a front wheel skid, the most likely cause of your understeer. I suggest that you give very gradual inputs on the T2 and become progressive with your steering. Don't snap the wheel round like a madman. If, like me, you prefer a wheel with a lot of travel, try setting your steering lock down to as little as 8 degrees. I't helped dampen out alot of my manic inputs. I also found that steering with one hand helped as I didn't use my other hand to "pull" the wheel around. Hope this helps Jed The Pits www.ukps.com/thepits

: I have just bought ICR2 and am having trouble just completing a few : laps, I am using a Thrustmaster 2 wheel & pedals combo with auto, : damage off etc... is driving a real Indycar as hard as this simulation? : Does anyone have any further hints on staying on the track? The car : seems to understeer on everytrack. I can break lap records etc.. on : need for speed! so what am I doing wrong? FRUSTRATED One important tip: Reduce the steering lock. The defaults are set up for keyboard/joystick. On road courses find the tightest/slowest corner and give yourself about 1 degree more than you need to get through it. Also the car tends to be loose while tires are cold. Watch the Rear tire temps. If they get too hot, or out of balance, the rear is almost impossible to keep behind you. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

>Also the car tends to be loose while tires are cold. Watch the Rear >tire temps. If they get too hot, or out of balance, the rear is almost >impossible to keep behind you. Something funny, I think .....Somehow I skid sideways at 25mph! No throttle, just a slight turn to the side, and tada! 360! I know an Indycar can handle a slight turn under 50 mph without spinning! Why does this game want to spin the car so easy? It is a constant battle to keep the car straight. Come on, my old '73 240Z can even outcorner this game under 50 mph! A little too unrealistic in my opinion, an indycar just doesn't spin that easy. Just my $0.02 worth.... Craig

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>Something funny, I think .....Somehow I skid sideways at 25mph! No throttle, just a >slight turn to the side, and tada! 360! I know an Indycar can handle a slight turn >under 50 mph without spinning! Why does this game want to spin the car so easy? It >is a constant battle to keep the car straight. Come on, my old '73 240Z can even >outcorner this game under 50 mph! A little too unrealistic in my opinion, an indycar >just doesn't spin that easy. >Just my $0.02 worth.... >Craig

What steering method are you using, and what is your wheel lock setting? The default settings of 16 or 18 degrees of lock mean that if you are using a joystick, then a relatively small movement would correspond to a major deflection of the steering wheel (in the real car). I frequently experienced this low-speed spin-out myself until I started reducing my wheel lock to 11 or 12 degrees for road courses and 8 or 9 for ovals. ssmith

>What steering method are you using, and what is your wheel lock > setting? The default settings of 16 or 18 degrees of lock mean > that if you are using a joystick, then a relatively small movement > would correspond to a major deflection of the steering wheel (in > the real car). I frequently experienced this low-speed spin-out > myself until I started reducing my wheel I'm using a joystick, for now, have a flight yoke on order. I just have the steering lock at whatever is defaults to. I guess I should set it lower? Craig

Me too, except I have problems with a mad oversteer. Maybe I am trying too hard though, I've got it on 100% opponent strength [but if I don't I'm excellent at Long Beach and *** everywhere else!]. Don't bother replying to this. --

Yeah, tell me about it! I wouldn't suggest you play ICR2 with a T2 like you would Ridge Racer on the arcade!!! I prefer to drive with my fingertips, meaning I don't yank on the wheel too hard. I also find it tricky driving with one hand as I tend to misjudge and over-react! One thing to remember is to avoid turning in and braking at the same time if you are using one of the faster setups. However, you'll probably get away with it a bit if you use 'EASY'. Also, I find that when I am going around a corner and I pull the wheel as far as it will go, it seems to steer less than if I pull it a little bit. Does anyone know why? --

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>Something funny, I think .....Somehow I skid sideways at 25mph! No throttle, just a >slight turn to the side, and tada! 360! I know an Indycar can handle a slight turn >under 50 mph without spinning! Why does this game want to spin the car so easy? It >is a constant battle to keep the car straight. Come on, my old '73 240Z can even >outcorner this game under 50 mph! A little too unrealistic in my opinion, an indycar >just doesn't spin that easy. >Just my $0.02 worth.... >Craig

I think you should change Non-Linear steering into Linear steering in the controls menu. Hope this helps. Cheers Harald

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>Something funny, I think .....Somehow I skid sideways at 25mph! No throttle, just a >slight turn to the side, and tada! 360! I know an Indycar can handle a slight turn >under 50 mph without spinning! Why does this game want to spin the car so easy? It >is a constant battle to keep the car straight. Come on, my old '73 240Z can even >outcorner this game under 50 mph! A little too unrealistic in my opinion, an indycar >just doesn't spin that easy. >Just my $0.02 worth.... >Craig

I know what you mean, the slow speed spins drove me crazy. But I found that in my case I always either had a tire touching the dirt or I was spinning my tires. The problem is, ICR2 doesn't let you know this, because it's revving sounds seem to be related only to the speed of the car. But they should be related to how much you are spinning the wheels regardless of the motion of the car. So even though it sounded like I was just pulling out gently, or even had my foot off the accellerator, turns out I was burning ***, I guess!

No. A real Indycar is harder. Just ask Stan Fox. But don't ask Hiro Matsushita.

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> >What steering method are you using, and what is your wheel lock > > setting? The default settings of 16 or 18 degrees of lock mean > > that if you are using a joystick, then a relatively small movement > > would correspond to a major deflection of the steering wheel (in > > the real car). I frequently experienced this low-speed spin-out > > myself until I started reducing my wheel > I'm using a joystick, for now, have a flight yoke on order. I just have the steering > lock at whatever is defaults to. I guess I should set it lower?

Here's another hint: Take reverse off of the joystick's y-axis. I found that as the game got intense, I would start to pull back on the stick. This cause spin-outs everywhere. But now I'm use the T2. Much, much better, and much more fun. -- Rick

There are many people on this newsgroup who harp on about how wonderful ICR2 is and also justify the games difficulty in terms of "well, a real IndyCar is difficult to drive, so why not the simulation....". While ICR2 makes a good stab at re-creating the physics model of the various forces an IndyCar may be subjected to, the game fails on two accounts: - The physics model isn't a complete model. Aspects such as skidding, wheel spin (as described in the above post) and a fully rolling and pitched environment are simply not there. - In conjunction with this, we (the user) are expected to control this beast by means of a simple input device (in ascending order of usability: Keyboard, Joystick, Wheel/Pedal combo), NONE of which allows for tactile feedback. Now, before I get flamed, I understand that the current state of PC input devices is not Papyrus's problem. However, in the knowledge that many (most) users will be controlling the game with a joystick, some form of steering help (like World Circuit) would be appropriate. So, what's my point?? The point is this: ICR2 is a ***y difficult game. I admire anyone who gets good lap times and competes at the highest level. For the average user who cannot afford to invest weeks of practise on each circuit (road courses in particular), the game can be a bit of a nightmare. People shouldn't justify ICR2's difficulty in terms of the supposed difficulty of driving a real IndyCar. The two things are completely different. In some ways, driving an IndyCar would actually be easier than the game, because you would actually be able to feel the track. In other ways (in particular, the physical forces the driver is subjected to / skill in using the gears correctly), driving a real car is obviously completely different. I hope Grand Prix 2 is more accessible to the average computer user.... Fraser

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> >Also the car tends to be loose while tires are cold. Watch the Rear > >tire temps. If they get too hot, or out of balance, the rear is almost > >impossible to keep behind you. > Something funny, I think .....Somehow I skid sideways at 25mph! No throttle, just a > slight turn to the side, and tada! 360! I know an Indycar can handle a slight turn > under 50 mph without spinning! Why does this game want to spin the car so easy? It > is a constant battle to keep the car straight. Come on, my old '73 240Z can even > outcorner this game under 50 mph! A little too unrealistic in my opinion, an indycar > just doesn't spin that easy. > Just my $0.02 worth....

The setup. An unbalanced car will swap ends if you just think about it. -- --- Terje Wold Johansen --- http://www.ifi.uio.no/~terjjo/ --- "I am your inferior superior." O.W.

[...] The stuff below is absolutely correct. It takes weeks to learn how to control the car and if you aren't particularily interested in racing and just want to kill some time ICR 2 is not for you. -- --- Terje Wold Johansen --- http://www.ifi.uio.no/~terjjo/ --- "I am your inferior superior." O.W.

I would tend to agree with you Fraser. I have spent some time practicing at Long Beach and I must say that my 1976 Honda Civic can corner better at 50 MPH (80 KPH) than this wider, lower and race tyre shod racing car. Of course it falls short of the acceleration and top end speed. My Point? The track surfaces need repaving in the patch. Craig. ****************************************************************************** Canberra, Australia IWCC3 Marker Bindings #2 Pontiac - Rick Higbee Motorsports IGN4 QANTAS Airways #75 Pontiac - Rick Higbee Motorsports IVL Toys-R-Us #43 Pontiac - Rick Higbee Motorsports IICC3 QANTAS Toys-R-Us #77 Reynard - Team Oz Racing ******************************************************************************

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>>There are many people on this newsgroup who harp on about how >>wonderful ICR2 is and also justify the games difficulty in terms >>of "well, a real IndyCar is difficult to drive, so why not the >>simulation....". While ICR2 makes a good stab at re-creating the >>physics model of the various forces an IndyCar may be subjected >>to, the game fails on two accounts: >I would tend to agree with you Fraser. I have spent some time >practicing at Long Beach and I must say that my 1976 Honda Civic can >corner better at 50 MPH (80 KPH) than this wider, lower and race tyre >shod racing car. Of course it falls short of the acceleration and >top end speed. My Point? The track surfaces need repaving in the >patch. >Craig.

Craig and Fraser: The key in the right setup - stay with easy for a long time. The corners on those temporary street courses can be quite tight. The hot shots are now already down in the low 51's at Long Beach. Most start out unalble to break one minute but after 100 laps or so you should be in the high 50's, even with the easy setup. I am a complete novice and can now run 55's comfortably when qualifying. The three most important ways to improve are practice - practice - practice. Every time you knock off another tenth, it is very satisfying. John Kane

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>>>There are many people on this newsgroup who harp on about how >>>wonderful ICR2 is and also justify the games difficulty in terms >>>of "well, a real IndyCar is difficult to drive, so why not the >>>simulation....". While ICR2 makes a good stab at re-creating the >>>physics model of the various forces an IndyCar may be subjected >>>to, the game fails on two accounts: >>I would tend to agree with you Fraser. I have spent some time >>practicing at Long Beach and I must say that my 1976 Honda Civic can >>corner better at 50 MPH (80 KPH) than this wider, lower and race tyre >>shod racing car. Of course it falls short of the acceleration and >>top end speed. My Point? The track surfaces need repaving in the >>patch. >>Craig. >Craig and Fraser: > The key in the right setup - stay with easy for a long time. The corners >on those temporary street courses can be quite tight. The hot shots are now >already down in the low 51's at Long Beach. Most start out unalble to break >one minute but after 100 laps or so you should be in the high 50's, even with >the easy setup. I am a complete novice and can now run 55's comfortably when >qualifying. The three most important ways to improve are practice - practice >- practice. Every time you knock off another tenth, it is very satisfying. >John Kane

Thanks for taking the time to add to the string (thread?) John. My best at Long Beach is 53.133 secs but it still feels too slippery. That notwithstanding, I had a 50% race last night and had a ball. I am not sorry I spent my $99 but I think a patch is required pretty damn quick. If Papryus can fix things like they did for NASCAR v1.2 then I will never post a bad opinion again. Craig ************************************************************** * Canberra, Australia * **************************************************************

With reference to using a T2 with ICR2, i must say its a lot easier to stay on the track, than using keys, although Jed may disagree with this. Also when going through a corner, you can enter faster without it being too critical as you can 'balance' the car in the corner through use of accelerator / brake. Also I find it easier to use half power when exiting corner, until I can opposite lock it out of a corner with the rear coming around, this doesn't improve laptimes, but its much more ***y fun than spinning. It does seem that the ICR2 is much easier to spin, and I seem to be much more sensative under braking for a slow corner after a fast straight, like on the back straight at Watkins, after the flat out bit at the start, as I approach for the chicane I find myself see-sawing with the wheel, just to keep it straight under braking, this I admit must be something to do with my setups. Buy a T2, it's more fun than a heart - bypass operation (not that I've had one!!!) - Steve

[snipped] : It does seem that the ICR2 is much easier to spin, and I seem to be : much more sensative under braking for a slow corner after a fast : straight, like on the back straight at Watkins, after the flat out bit : at the start, as I approach for the chicane I find myself see-sawing : with the wheel, just to keep it straight under braking, this I admit : must be something to do with my setups. Sounds like you have to much front brake bias. With alot of front brake bias you have to keep the front wheels straight under heavy braking. You are shifting the majority of the cars weight onto the steering wheels. Any slight movement right or left is multiplied many fold. You also may want to lessen your steering lock if you haven't already done so. I own the T1 version and couldn't race without it. I love to make minor adjustments to the steering when taking corners a little too hard. More like the real thing. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=