ICR2: Some drivers2.txt changes

Well I have been tinkering with a "good" way to cook up some numbers for the missing drivers in ICR2. I still haven't come up with an excellent method yet. So if any of you have any ideas you want to share let me know. Until then, here are my suggested lines for L'il Al, Emo, and Jacques. DINFO 3 0 0 0 375 550 366 497 500 501 895 995 Paul_Tracy Paul Toronto,_Canada Canada CAN Newman-Haas_Racing DINFO 6 0 0 0 375 562 351 529 500 501 998 999 Michael_Andretti Michael Bethlehem,_PA USA USA Newman-Haas_Racing DINFO 27 2 0 0 375 562 420 577 500 501 775 910 Jacques_Villeneuve Jacques St._Jean_sur_Richelieu,_Canada Canada CAN Team_Green_Racing -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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> Well I have been tinkering with a "good" way to cook up some numbers for > the missing drivers in ICR2. I still haven't come up with an excellent > method yet. So if any of you have any ideas you want to share let me > know. Until then, here are my suggested lines for L'il Al, Emo, and > Jacques. > DINFO 3 0 0 0 375 550 366 497 500 501 895 995 > Paul_Tracy Paul Toronto,_Canada Canada CAN Newman-Haas_Racing > DINFO 6 0 0 0 375 562 351 529 500 501 998 999 > Michael_Andretti Michael Bethlehem,_PA USA USA Newman-Haas_Racing > DINFO 27 2 0 0 375 562 420 577 500 501 775 910 Jacques_Villeneuve > Jacques St._Jean_sur_Richelieu,_Canada Canada CAN Team_Green_Racing

It's just too bad that there isn't a column for "stupid moves". Then you could bump up Tracy to 998 and 999 for that added realism factor... :) Don't get me wrong...I love the guy...but he leaves me shaking my head at times... Neil

I have been tinkering with my method of cooking up numbers for this file and have made a few modifications. I am also posting a few other drivers to go with the cars I have been posting. DINFO 10 0 1 0 325 550 350 499 500 501 500 700 Adrian_Fernandez Adrian Mexico_City,_Mexico USA USA Galles_Racing_International DINFO 3 0 0 0 375 550 366 485 500 501 895 995 Paul_Tracy Paul Toronto,_Canada Canada CAN Newman-Haas_Racing DINFO 6 0 0 0 375 562 351 529 500 501 998 999 Michael_Andretti Michael Bethlehem,_PA USA USA Newman-Haas_Racing DINFO 14 0 0 0 350 500 291 425 500 501 500 700 Eddie_Cheever Eddie Phoenix,_AZ USA USA A.J._Foyt_Enterprises DINFO 33 2 0 0 350 550 373 552 500 501 500 750 Teo_Fabi Teo Milan,_Italy Italy ITA Forsythe_Racing I have been using statistics from the end of the 1995 season. I try to use the driver's standing in the points for the Power range. Trying to fit them in with the range Papyrus gave the real drivers in the original. I am using the driver's Average Starting position along with the percentage of times they were still running at the finish to achieve the first number for Traction. The higher number for Traction is based on a similar formula involving the driver's average finishing position along with the percentage of laps completed. The range for Aggression is just a gut feeling at the time. If any of you are using these suggested numbers, I would like some feedback on how they perform in you racing environment. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

This is the first time I've seen the newsgroup. (COOL!!) I son't have ICR2 yet. I can't find it in stores in Chicago. Don't ask why.

I don't have ICR2 yet. I haven't found it stores yet in Chicago, don't ask why. I here its an really cool sim. The question I have is your drivers2.txt. I've made major changes with my ICR1. Like changing names, drivers stats, cars in paintkit program. Going as so far as changing CARS PC23---PC24/25 "94&95'years" Lola 92--Reynard 94i Buick V6--HondaV8 etc, etc, etc, I don't see what's the big deal is. The use of driver names & sponsors revoled around money. So if they don't what to play we can just make them play with the push of a button on a keypad. Remember if you own a PC you can't be that slow, THAT only MAC drivers. Little Al in 96' Later JC

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>> Well I have been tinkering with a "good" way to cook up some numbers for >> the missing drivers in ICR2. I still haven't come up with an excellent >> method yet. So if any of you have any ideas you want to share let me >> know. Until then, here are my suggested lines for L'il Al, Emo, and >> Jacques. >> DINFO 3 0 0 0 375 550 366 497 500 501 895 995 >> Paul_Tracy Paul Toronto,_Canada Canada CAN Newman-Haas_Racing >> DINFO 6 0 0 0 375 562 351 529 500 501 998 999 >> Michael_Andretti Michael Bethlehem,_PA USA USA Newman-Haas_Racing >> DINFO 27 2 0 0 375 562 420 577 500 501 775 910 Jacques_Villeneuve >> Jacques St._Jean_sur_Richelieu,_Canada Canada CAN Team_Green_Racing >It's just too bad that there isn't a column for "stupid moves". Then you >could bump up Tracy to 998 and 999 for that added realism factor... :) >Don't get me wrong...I love the guy...but he leaves me shaking my head at >times... >Neil

Michael Andretti might fall into this catagory also.

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>Subject: Re: ICR2: Some drivers2.txt changes >Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 09:19:12 -0500 >> Well I have been tinkering with a "good" way to cook up some numbers for >> the missing drivers in ICR2. I still haven't come up with an excellent >> method yet. So if any of you have any ideas you want to share let me >> know. Until then, here are my suggested lines for L'il Al, Emo, and >> Jacques. >> DINFO 3 0 0 0 375 550 366 497 500 501 895 995 >> Paul_Tracy Paul Toronto,_Canada Canada CAN Newman-Haas_Racing >> DINFO 6 0 0 0 375 562 351 529 500 501 998 999 >> Michael_Andretti Michael Bethlehem,_PA USA USA Newman-Haas_Racing >> DINFO 27 2 0 0 375 562 420 577 500 501 775 910 Jacques_Villeneuve >> Jacques St._Jean_sur_Richelieu,_Canada Canada CAN Team_Green_Racing >It's just too bad that there isn't a column for "stupid moves". Then you >could bump up Tracy to 998 and 999 for that added realism factor... :) >Don't get me wrong...I love the guy...but he leaves me shaking my head at >times... >Neil

Neil. Neil, Neil, Neil. How many races have you watched? Ever see Michael Andretti race? Maybe Robby Gordon? To bash Paul Tracy like this is totally uncalled for and absurd. Paul Tracy is an aggressive driver, I'll give you that. But when compared to the likes of both of the aforementioned, his "overaggressiveness" pales in comparison. Just how many cars did Michael Andretti "punt" or rear-end in the 1995 season? Oh, and that post-race incident following the Cleveland Grand Prix where Gordon side-swiped Andretti -- which resulted in fines and probations. Yeah, that was totally called for. Paul Tracy is so good because he is so aggressive. *Perhaps* a little over-aggressive, but that's his style. At least he doesn't go around ramming his opponents like Andretti and Gordon (esp. Andretti). The point is, when you compare Paul Tracy to Michael Andretti or even Robby Gordon (keeping the *facts* in mind), Tracy comes out looking like Ayrton Senna.

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>Subject: Re: ICR2: Some drivers2.txt changes >Date: 25 Dec 1995 20:11:17 GMT >I have been tinkering with my method of cooking up numbers for this file >and have made a few modifications. I am also posting a few other >drivers to go with the cars I have been posting. >DINFO 10 0 1 0 325 550 350 499 500 501 500 700 Adrian_Fernandez Adrian >Mexico_City,_Mexico USA USA Galles_Racing_International >DINFO 3 0 0 0 375 550 366 485 500 501 895 995 Paul_Tracy Paul >Toronto,_Canada Canada CAN Newman-Haas_Racing >DINFO 6 0 0 0 375 562 351 529 500 501 998 999 Michael_Andretti Michael >Bethlehem,_PA USA USA Newman-Haas_Racing >DINFO 14 0 0 0 350 500 291 425 500 501 500 700 Eddie_Cheever Eddie >Phoenix,_AZ USA USA A.J._Foyt_Enterprises >DINFO 33 2 0 0 350 550 373 552 500 501 500 750 Teo_Fabi Teo >Milan,_Italy Italy ITA Forsythe_Racing >I have been using statistics from the end of the 1995 season. I try to >use the driver's standing in the points for the Power range. Trying to >fit them in with the range Papyrus gave the real drivers in the >original. I am using the driver's Average Starting position along with >the percentage of times they were still running at the finish to achieve >the first number for Traction. The higher number for Traction is based >on a similar formula involving the driver's average finishing position >along with the percentage of laps completed. The range for Aggression >is just a gut feeling at the time. >If any of you are using these suggested numbers, I would like some >feedback on how they perform in you racing environment. >-- >**************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The Papyrus range of numbers (i.e. power and traction) is okay except for the numbers of the backmarkers (Matsushita, Zampedri, etc.). To improve this, make the minimums of power and traction for the slower cars between 150-200 and the maximums between 450-520

: The Papyrus range of numbers (i.e. power and traction) is okay except for the : numbers of the backmarkers (Matsushita, Zampedri, etc.). To improve this, : make the minimums of power and traction for the slower cars between 150-200 : and the maximums between 450-520 Papyrus made the "drag" numbers extremely high for the "backmarkers". If I understand the method correctly, the game picks a number between the range and that is how the driver drives during the whole session. So if you give them a maximum of 450-520 they could (by luck of the draw) out shine the whole field on occasions. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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>Subject: Re: ICR2: Some drivers2.txt changes >Date: 3 Jan 1996 15:39:38 GMT >: The Papyrus range of numbers (i.e. power and traction) is okay except for the >: numbers of the backmarkers (Matsushita, Zampedri, etc.). To improve this, >: make the minimums of power and traction for the slower cars between 150-200 >: and the maximums between 450-520 >Papyrus made the "drag" numbers extremely high for the "backmarkers". >If I understand the method correctly, the game picks a number between >the range and that is how the driver drives during the whole session. >So if you give them a maximum of 450-520 they could (by luck of the >draw) out shine the whole field on occasions. >-- >**************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

First of all, drag is basically meaningless. I've done some testing with the numbers and I've found that drag basically only affects the qualifying times -- albeit not too terribly much. Second, if you have slower cars with maximums (traction and power) between 450 - 500 with the minimums between 150 - 200, they will virtually *never* run at the top of the field. Believe me, I've done some testing. The thing to remember is traction is the *** factor for the overall quickness of the car -- the second most dominat factor is power and then drag. One more thing -- I've just completed a 1995 IndyCar set for ICR2 along with a corresponding and super-realistic (in my opinion, and I've taken all of the results of the 1995 season into account) drivers2.txt file. The IndyCars are perfectly detailed -- all *31* of them -- and it took me a real long time. I've uploaded the complete package to the Papyrus BBS (1-617-926-7599) but I have one problem. Using FTP, I don't really know how to upload (or download, for that matter) and whenever I try for a site on my Windows FTP program it can't find it. If anyone has *any* information that may be helpful please RSVP or e-mail me. Then you'll be able to download my IndyCars1995 package and see if it's just as good as I think it is. Thanks.

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> >Subject: Re: ICR2: Some drivers2.txt changes > >Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 09:19:12 -0500 > >> Well I have been tinkering with a "good" way to cook up some numbers for > >> the missing drivers in ICR2. I still haven't come up with an excellent > >> method yet. So if any of you have any ideas you want to share let me > >> know. Until then, here are my suggested lines for L'il Al, Emo, and > >> Jacques. > >> DINFO 3 0 0 0 375 550 366 497 500 501 895 995 > >> Paul_Tracy Paul Toronto,_Canada Canada CAN Newman-Haas_Racing > >> DINFO 6 0 0 0 375 562 351 529 500 501 998 999 > >> Michael_Andretti Michael Bethlehem,_PA USA USA Newman-Haas_Racing > >> DINFO 27 2 0 0 375 562 420 577 500 501 775 910 Jacques_Villeneuve > >> Jacques St._Jean_sur_Richelieu,_Canada Canada CAN Team_Green_Racing > >It's just too bad that there isn't a column for "stupid moves". Then you > >could bump up Tracy to 998 and 999 for that added realism factor... :) > >Don't get me wrong...I love the guy...but he leaves me shaking my head at > >times... > >Neil > Neil. Neil, Neil, Neil. How many races have you watched? Ever see Michael > Andretti race? Maybe Robby Gordon? To bash Paul Tracy like this is totally > uncalled for and absurd. > Paul Tracy is an aggressive driver, I'll give you that. But when compared to > the likes of both of the aforementioned, his "overaggressiveness" pales in > comparison. Just how many cars did Michael Andretti "punt" or rear-end in the > 1995 season? Oh, and that post-race incident following the Cleveland Grand > Prix where Gordon side-swiped Andretti -- which resulted in fines and > probations. Yeah, that was totally called for. > Paul Tracy is so good because he is so aggressive. *Perhaps* a little > over-aggressive, but that's his style. At least he doesn't go around ramming > his opponents like Andretti and Gordon (esp. Andretti). The point is, when > you compare Paul Tracy to Michael Andretti or even Robby Gordon (keeping the > *facts* in mind), Tracy comes out looking like Ayrton Senna.

Heh heh....Yeah...I agree with you, Josh, but I hate Mike's guts, and don't give a damn about what he does. Tracy, on the other hand, is a fave of mine (being a local boy and all), so he pisses me off when he gets over-aggressive and wipes it out. The end of the straight at Toronto this year comes to mind... Neil

JB>>It's just too bad that there isn't a column for "stupid moves". Then you >>could bump up Tracy to 998 and 999 for that added realism factor... :) JB>>Don't get me wrong...I love the guy...but he leaves me shaking my head at >>times... JB>>Neil JB>Neil. Neil, Neil, Neil. How many races have you watched? Ever see Michael

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>Andretti race? Maybe Robby Gordon? To bash Paul Tracy like this is totally >uncalled for and absurd. >Paul Tracy is an aggressive driver, I'll give you that. But when compared t >... >over-aggressive, but that's his style. At least he doesn't go around rammin >his opponents like Andretti and Gordon (esp. Andretti). The point is, when >you compare Paul Tracy to Michael Andretti or even Robby Gordon (keeping the >*facts* in mind), Tracy comes out looking like Ayrton Senna.

Tracy is to Ayrton Senna as I am to Dale Earnhardt. Tracy has a unique (and annoying to his owner) habit of pushing the car past its limits. Its not him drop kicking his oppenents on the track; its his 360's into retaining walls, blowing the engine, and so many other things he's done that warrants a "stupid moves" column for driver ratings in ICR2. --- * TLX v4.10 * DEVICEHIGH: Your device driver on ***. --- * OLX 2.2 TD *

> The point is, when > you compare Paul Tracy to Michael Andretti or even Robby Gordon (keeping the > *facts* in mind), Tracy comes out looking like Ayrton Senna. Compare Tracy to Andretti and Tracy looks like Senna? I'm just cursious, how many Championships has Tracy won? And Andretti? Nuff said.

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>Subject: Re: ICR2: Some drivers2.t >Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 14:42:00 GMT >Tracy is to Ayrton Senna as I am to Dale Earnhardt. Tracy has a unique (and >annoying to his owner) habit of pushing the car past its limits. Its not >him drop kicking his oppenents on the track; its his 360's into retaining >walls, blowing the engine, and so many other things he's done that >warrants a "stupid moves" column for driver ratings in ICR2.

I said *COMPARED* to Andretti and Gordon. *COMPARED*.

>Subject: Re: ICR2: Some drivers2.t JB>>Tracy is to Ayrton Senna as I am to Dale Earnhardt. Tracy has a unique (an >>annoying to his owner) habit of pushing the car past its limits. Its not >>him drop kicking his oppenents on the track; its his 360's into retaining >>walls, blowing the engine, and so many other things he's done that >>warrants a "stupid moves" column for driver ratings in ICR2. JB> I said *COMPARED* to Andretti and Gordon. *COMPARED*. So, what were you saying? --- * TLX v4.10 * My computer even came with a driver's side air bag. --- * OLX 2.2 TD *

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>Subject: Re: ICR2: Some drivers2.t >Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 17:11:00 GMT > >Subject: Re: ICR2: Some drivers2.t >JB>>Tracy is to Ayrton Senna as I am to Dale Earnhardt. Tracy has a unique (an > >>annoying to his owner) habit of pushing the car past its limits. Its not > >>him drop kicking his oppenents on the track; its his 360's into retaining > >>walls, blowing the engine, and so many other things he's done that > >>warrants a "stupid moves" column for driver ratings in ICR2. >JB> I said *COMPARED* to Andretti and Gordon. *COMPARED*. >So, what were you saying?

I'm saying that Michael Andretti is the most recklessly aggressive driver among the top ranking racing series in the world. He is a tremendous hazard to himself and all other drivers on the track, and has no concern for proper racing style. He's quick, I'll give him that, but being quick for a few laps and then crashing out doesn't bring home championships or even wins (except Toronto). To back this up for all of you Michael Andretti lovers out there, he was in the lead in each of the first 6 races of the season. He crashed out in 4, dramatically fell back in one (Long Beach) due to 2 major off-road mishaps, and the other one he actually managed to finished -- he came second to Gordon at Phoenix after a last-lap pass. His most bonehead-ish outing didn't come in any of these races, however. This was at Cleveland, where he slammed into the back of Herta in a major mid-race *mistake*, and to top it off -- on the last lap after getting passed by Villeneuve, he blatantly and purposely (I'll say this because I've reviewed this season's race tapes several times and I know his style) punted Villeneuve with his wing in Jacques, right rear tire. Miraculously, Jacques' tire did not blow and he went on to win the race in style. *THESE ARE THE FACTS. FORMULATE YOUR OWN OPINIONS.*

: I'm saying that Michael Andretti is the most recklessly aggressive driver : among the top ranking racing series in the world. He is a tremendous hazard : to himself and all other drivers on the track, and has no concern for proper : racing style. He's quick, I'll give him that, but being quick for a few laps : and then crashing out doesn't bring home championships or even wins (except : Toronto). To back this up for all of you Michael Andretti lovers out there, : he was in the lead in each of the first 6 races of the season. He crashed out : in 4, dramatically fell back in one (Long Beach) due to 2 major off-road : mishaps, and the other one he actually managed to finished -- he came second : to Gordon at Phoenix after a last-lap pass. His most bonehead-ish outing : didn't come in any of these races, however. This was at Cleveland, where he : slammed into the back of Herta in a major mid-race *mistake*, and to top it : off -- on the last lap after getting passed by Villeneuve, he blatantly and : purposely (I'll say this because I've reviewed this season's race tapes : several times and I know his style) punted Villeneuve with his wing in : Jacques, right rear tire. Miraculously, Jacques' tire did not blow and he : went on to win the race in style. *THESE ARE THE FACTS. FORMULATE YOUR OWN : OPINIONS.* Let's see: Miami: Cut off by a rookie, Suspention damage. Australia: Lost second gear, rear brakes locked up and he admitted that he was driving over his head Phoenix: His team didn't tell him that he was in the lead and thought that Gordon was unlapping himself Long Beach: Just screwed up Nazareth: Right front tire changer did not tighten the tire properly and the rest is history Indianapolis: Went high to pass Gugielmein(sp?), where he had passed before, but it had turned to marbles when he tried to pass there Cleveland: If you think that Michael was the ONLY one making "boneheadish" moves that day... -- ________ ___ | | Congratulations to / | Jeff Gordon, Jacques Villenueve & | | /--------/ | Michael Schumacher ******** ____/---/IVCF,SCA 77 \--------^\__ ____ \ \__/ __ \ \ ____________________________ =====/ __ \ [ | / \ | \----_____/Jeffrey K. Stier ==== | / \ |----\ \____/--------------------------------^^^--\____/-|_________\

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>Subject: Re: ICR2: Some drivers2.txt >Date: 11 Jan 1996 01:08:56 -0500 >: I'm saying that Michael Andretti is the most recklessly aggressive driver >: among the top ranking racing series in the world. He is a tremendous hazard >: to himself and all other drivers on the track, and has no concern for proper >: racing style. He's quick, I'll give him that, but being quick for a few laps >: and then crashing out doesn't bring home championships or even wins (except >: Toronto). To back this up for all of you Michael Andretti lovers out there, >: he was in the lead in each of the first 6 races of the season. He crashed out >: in 4, dramatically fell back in one (Long Beach) due to 2 major off-road >: mishaps, and the other one he actually managed to finished -- he came second >: to Gordon at Phoenix after a last-lap pass. His most bonehead-ish outing >: didn't come in any of these races, however. This was at Cleveland, where he >: slammed into the back of Herta in a major mid-race *mistake*, and to top it >: off -- on the last lap after getting passed by Villeneuve, he blatantly and >: purposely (I'll say this because I've reviewed this season's race tapes >: several times and I know his style) punted Villeneuve with his wing in >: Jacques, right rear tire. Miraculously, Jacques' tire did not blow and he >: went on to win the race in style. *THESE ARE THE FACTS. FORMULATE YOUR OWN >: OPINIONS.* >Let's see: > Miami: Cut off by a rookie, Suspention damage.

Funny how Michael always gets into these situations. Hmmm.... could his over-aggressiveness *possibly* have something to do with it? He shouldn't have tried the pass in a corner like that. Then he should have let Rahal past instead of wrecking his car and getting zero points... I agree with you here. Michael actually drove a pretty sane race. Over-aggressiveness -- he doesn't know when to sit back and take it a little easier. You can't charge your hardest the whole race and drive the ***out the car like it's qualifying. If you do this (esp. with tremendous aggression,) chances are you are going to have a screw-up over the period of two hours. This is not how races are won and this is *certainly* not how championships are won. I agree with you here. I definitely do not agree with you here. That incident was, in my opinion, about 20% Gugelmin's fault and about 80% Michael's. What happened was Gugelmin went into the pits with Michael not going in and only a little ways behind. When Michael saw Gugelmin pit, instead of letting off the throttle a bit and/or taking a safer line, he tried to slam the car around the corner at full throttle and hit the wall on turn 4 (another episode of the super-hard-charging Michael). So what are you saying? If you are reffering to the first-lap incident between Andre Ribeiro and Paul Tracy, then you are right in calling Ribeiro (and *not* Tracy) a bonehead because he did not want to go two wide on the chicane -- as every other row did on the track -- and thus cut Paul Tracy off when Paul was up half a car length on Andre. (I know what most people think -- they see Tracy and someone like Ribeiro off and immediately assume that Tracy is at fault since he is the more aggressive of the two.) Another "boneheadish" move would have to be Scott Pruett sending Gil de Ferran into the tire barrier with under 10 laps to go -- Gil was leading and Scott was 2 (or 3) laps down... Finally, concerning Cleveland, let us not forget Robby Gordon's little post-race extravaganza... Let's just say that he got off easy with his "probation" and little fine. (Michael was also put on probation.) This isn't bumper cars, people. Josh Beaulieu Langley, BC, Canada

: > Australia: Lost second gear, rear brakes locked up and he admitted : > that he was driving over his head : Then he should have let Rahal past instead of wrecking his car and getting : zero points... Why, he had kept ahead of Rahal for over 5 laps previous. If he could have done that, why let him pass on the last lap Also, he collected 2 points, the pole and most laps lead, and points for 9th. : > Long Beach: Just screwed up : Over-aggressiveness -- he doesn't know when to sit back and take it a little : easier. You can't charge your hardest the whole race and drive the ***out : the car like it's qualifying. If you do this (esp. with tremendous : aggression,) chances are you are going to have a screw-up over the period of : two hours. This is not how races are won and this is *certainly* not how : championships are won. I refer you to the 1991 season. : > Indianapolis: : > Went high to pass Gugielmein(sp?), where he had passed : > before, but it had turned to marbles when he tried : > to pass there : I definitely do not agree with you here. That incident was, in my opinion, : about 20% Gugelmin's fault and about 80% Michael's. What happened was : Gugelmin went into the pits with Michael not going in and only a little ways : behind. When Michael saw Gugelmin pit, instead of letting off the throttle a : bit and/or taking a safer line, he tried to slam the car around the corner at : full throttle and hit the wall on turn 4 (another episode of the super-hard-charging : Michael). I am only arguing what I have read. If I had my tape of the Indy 500 still, I would continue to try and defend this incident. : >Cleveland: If you think : >that Michael was the ONLY one making "boneheadish" : >moves that day...>--> : >Jeffrey K. Stier : So what are you saying? If you are reffering to the first-lap incident : between Andre Ribeiro and Paul Tracy, then you are right in calling Ribeiro : (and *not* Tracy) a bonehead because he did not want to go two wide on the : chicane -- as every other row did on the track -- and thus cut Paul Tracy off : when Paul was up half a car length on Andre. (I know what most people think : -- they see Tracy and someone like Ribeiro off and immediately assume that : Tracy is at fault since he is the more aggressive of the two.) Another : "boneheadish" move would have to be Scott Pruett sending Gil de Ferran into : the tire barrier with under 10 laps to go -- Gil was leading and Scott was 2 : (or 3) laps down... Finally, concerning Cleveland, let us not forget Robby : Gordon's little post-race extravaganza... Let's just say that he got off : easy with his "probation" and little fine. (Michael was also put on : probation.) This isn't bumper cars, people. Actually, I am refering to the race as a whole. It seems that a lot of drivers decided to try having a demolition derby with open wheel cars. -- ________ ___ | | Congratulations to / | Jeff Gordon, Jacques Villenueve & | | /--------/ | Michael Schumacher ******** ____/---/IVCF,SCA 77 \--------^\__ ____ \ \__/ __ \ \ ____________________________ =====/ __ \ [ | / \ | \----_____/Jeffrey K. Stier ==== | / \ |----\ \____/--------------------------------^^^--\____/-|_________\

That may be but racers like Andretti are the ones that make watching races all that much more fun!!!

> to Gordon at Phoenix after a last-lap pass. His most bonehead-ish outing > didn't come in any of these races, however. This was at Cleveland, where h > slammed into the back of Herta in a major mid-race *mistake*, and to top it > off -- on the last lap after getting passed by Villeneuve, he blatantly and > purposely (I'll say this because I've reviewed this season's race tapes > several times and I know his style) punted Villeneuve with his wing in > Jacques, right rear tire. Miraculously, Jacques' tire did not blow and he > went on to win the race in style. *THESE ARE THE FACTS. FORMULATE YOUR OW > OPINIONS.* > Well Josh I've been claiming that Mike has been a tire cutter for the last two years. Long Beach, Portland, Detroit, and as you stated at Cleveland, have all been locales for "Mike the Knife." He is featured on a new ESPN comercial and (I hope!) is spoofing himself by knocking hallway pedestrians out of his way. If I were to rate the drivers last season, I would place Mike as the fastest. Followed by Jacques and Al Jr. However if I were to rank them as racers, he would be lower due to his damageing of his cars while in no-win situations.(i.e. trying to hold off Rahal at Autralia after he had already partially wrecked his car.) Tracey and de Ferran are just a notch below the above guys. I really wonder about Emmo's season. Was the Penske really that bad or is the Great Brazillian finally fading? Tracey and Andretti seemed fairly equal, the number of Reynard drivers that won races was incredible so I wonder why Emmo's season was so different from his teamate's. Granted Al Jr. didn't have the best of years, but he was consistantly near the front when Emmo was stuck near the 20's. Dave Henrie * JABBER v1.1 * -- | Fidonet: Dave Henrie 1:346/25 | Fido -> Internet/Usenet via Net 346 Services