NASCAR traction help!

It seems that NASCAR has traction help. If you configure the control for acceleration on a button youll be able to turn faster lap times. It transforms NASCAR racing from a simulator into an arcade game. I tried a setup that was almost uncontrollable with acceleration set on the x axis of the joystick, with the button I was soon turning 183s at Atlanta with a full tank and cold tires. Were the lap records posted on the Papyrus BBS set this way? Will we have to use this method to be competitive on the Network? Was this intentional or is it a bug? With world circuit using the buttons was a disadvantage, seems like it should be with NASCAR too.

Yes, I have noticed the same thing. I started driving Nascar Racing with only a Virtual Pilot and used the buttons for accelerating/braking. Then I bought the CH Pedals and as stated above driving became much more difficult tractionwise. I was a bit surprised about this fact. I can do faster laps at road tracks with the pedals and then I can do faster laps at the ovals with just using the buttons on my Virtual Pilot. I guess you might call it "traction help" a la F1GP. Mr. Genter if you are reading, please comment on this! I'd like to know that too. A question for IVGA people can your FASTLAP program verify which method is being used for applying gas/brake? Greetings, Pekka Heino Flyin'Finn

I guess you might call it "traction help" a la F1GP. Mr. Genter if you are reading, please comment on this! <<< There is no traction help when using a digital control for acceleration or braking. The difference is that we don't instantly give you full acceleration/braking when the button is clicked; instead we ramp up the acceleration/braking. (The same goes for keyboard steering; we don't just slam the wheels left/right, we turn them steadily.) My guess is that with an analog input you're giving the car too much gas too quickly. Don't start out flooring it; increase the gas steadily, just as you would a real car. Rick Genter Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

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>I guess you might call it "traction help" a la >F1GP. Mr. Genter if you are reading, please comment on this! ><<< >There is no traction help when using a digital control for acceleration or >braking. The difference is that we don't instantly give you full >acceleration/braking when the button is clicked; instead we ramp up the >acceleration/braking. (The same goes for keyboard steering; we don't just >slam the wheels left/right, we turn them steadily.) >My guess is that with an analog input you're giving the car too much gas >too quickly. Don't start out flooring it; increase the gas steadily, just >as you would a real car. >Rick Genter >Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II >Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

It amounts to the same thing as traction help. I can reduce the rear spoiler to 40 and put all the weight at the rear and the car will still be easy to handle. In modem racing this is a huge advantage!! The loose setups that are a handful are the fastest, and with a lot of weight in the back the right front tire will last longer. The buttons remove the disadvantages invloved in such a setup, ie a much harder car to drive. Especially on cold tires. I personally like NASCAR because it is a simulator and look forward to the Network as long as it's an even playing field. I hope there will be a way to seperate those running in "simulator" mode and those running in "arcade" mode.

>There is no traction help when using a digital control for acceleration or >braking. The difference is that we don't instantly give you full >acceleration/braking when the button is clicked; instead we ramp up the >acceleration/braking. (The same goes for keyboard steering; we don't just >slam the wheels left/right, we turn them steadily.) Rick, I feel and many others on compuserve feel that this "traction help" is too much. It allows those to use digital gas/brake with a steering wheel to gain upto 3-5mph over those who use analog gas/brake. If you dont believe us, take a setup that you use for analog gas/brake and try it using digital gas/brake. First you will find that the setup is too tight, you have to loosen it up. This loosening up gives you more speed! Conclusion: unfair advantage. Digital drivers can drive a looser car than those who use analog gas/brake resulting in faster lap times. Now take a setup you use for digital gas/brake and try it using analog gas/brake. Man this setup is extremely loose, you are lucky if you can turn a lap with it. Now you have to tighten up the car to be able to drive it. Conclusion: digital has unfair advantage, you are taking a fast setup and slowing it down by tightening it up to drive analog resulting in slower lap speeds. I do know how to ease on/off the gas/brake so this isnt the problem. The problem is obviously there is some sort of so called "traction help" for the digital users. I really think this needs to be changed, especially sense we will be racing on the network and all these digital guys will have an unfair advantage, and if they know how to setup a car they should be unbeatable versus an analog driver with the same knowledge of setup. Please take some real serious concern in this, dont blow it off, Mike

I feel and many others on compuserve feel that this "traction help" is too much. It allows those to use digital gas/brake with a steering wheel to gain upto 3-5mph over those who use analog gas/brake. If you dont believe us, take a setup that you use for analog gas/brake and try it using digital gas/brake. First you will find that the setup is too tight, you have to loosen it up. This loosening up gives you more speed! Conclusion: unfair advantage. Digital drivers can drive a looser car than those who use analog gas/brake resulting in faster lap times. <<< Again, there IS NO TRACTION HELP in NASCAR (or IndyCar II). I know; I had to modify the input code to add mouse driving. And again, the fastest driver we have in-house uses analog pedals for driving. Rick Genter Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

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>Again, there IS NO TRACTION HELP in NASCAR (or IndyCar II). I know; I had >to modify the input code to add mouse driving. >And again, the fastest driver we have in-house uses analog pedals for >driving. >Rick Genter >Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II >Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

Consider it blown off. It'll be buttons if you want to compete.

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> Now take a setup you use for digital gas/brake and try it using >analog gas/brake. Man this setup is extremely loose, you are lucky if >you can turn a lap with it. Now you have to tighten up the car to be >able to drive it. Conclusion: digital has unfair advantage, you are >taking a fast setup and slowing it down by tightening it up to drive >analog resulting in slower lap speeds. > I do know how to ease on/off the gas/brake so this isnt the problem. >The problem is obviously there is some sort of so called "traction >help" for the digital users. I really think this needs to be changed, >especially sense we will be racing on the network and all these >digital guys will have an unfair advantage, and if they know how to >setup a car they should be unbeatable versus an analog driver with the >same knowledge of setup.

If its so much faster using keyboard, then use the keyboard, toss your wheel and pedals, and shut up. --- * TLX v4.10 * Explain counter-clockwise to someone with a digital watch --- * OLX 2.2 TD *

> I do know how to ease on/off the gas/brake so this isnt the problem. The "Digital help" he is talking about is a gradual application of brakes or gas with a button of somekind by the game. Of course, with a Analog device such as pedals, your foot snapping to the floor is a much more sudden action than the computer simulates for buttons. But this can be a disadvantage as well as an advantage. I race my friend in ICR2, where the same thing applies, and he consistantly outbrakes me into corners. It's not setup, we exchanged setups and it still happends. In that situation, his sudden brake application enables him to brake later into the corner than me with my joystick button can.

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> > I do know how to ease on/off the gas/brake so this isnt the problem. >> >The problem is obviously there is some sort of so called "traction >> >help" for the digital users. I really think this needs to be changed, >> >especially sense we will be racing on the network and all these >> >digital guys will have an unfair advantage, and if they know how to >> >setup a car they should be unbeatable versus an analog driver with the >> >same knowledge of setup. >The "Digital help" he is talking about is a gradual application of brakes >or gas with a button of somekind by the game. Of course, with a Analog >device such as pedals, your foot snapping to the floor is a much more >sudden action than the computer simulates for buttons. >But this can be a disadvantage as well as an advantage. I race my friend >in ICR2, where the same thing applies, and he consistantly outbrakes me >into corners. It's not setup, we exchanged setups and it still happends. >In that situation, his sudden brake application enables him to brake later >into the corner than me with my joystick button can.

The advantage is not just with braki ng in NASCAR where with analog it's easy to brake the rear end loose accelerating. With digital you can apply throttle at any point in a turn the back end will not break loose. If your using a joystick it's easy to prove. If you have controls set to X-axis for brake and gas change to buttons and take the car for a spin. The 1st thing you'll notice is that you don't have to baby the car until the tires heat up. The car will still push but not break loose. With this advantage you can set up the car will extra weight in the back to get more life out of the right front in addition to faster lap times. If you've been using digital try switching to analog and check out the difference. The keyboard is no advantage despite being digital because turning is such a pain. I can understand Papyrus wanting to appeal to as many people as possible with different control methods but with analog it requires much more skill to drive. I predict that the fastest drivers on the upcoming network will be digital gas and brake users. It will be easy to convert pedals to digital.

I have. It is a bit harder, but if you're good at it, you can outbrake as well as outfeather (throttle) your opponent. It's hard to go part throttle with a button.