ICR III wish list

Hi Papyrus, and Sierra : Some one else is compiling a bug list for ICR II. Here is my wish list for ICR III. Things I would like to see on tape: Race position, lap times, and perhaps times between points along the track (I don't remember what this is called, ESPN has a name for it). I would also like to see tire temps. The ability to play with the camera angles and zoom, at least for the TV shots. Network server program: Several months ago someone at Papyrus posted about an upcoming multi player racing service. I don't believe this was Rick. This would allow many people to race against each other. And, presumably, many different races to be going on at once. While I'm sure this would be fun, and I'm sure you would have reasonable rates, I would rather pay a few extra bucks to have a server in my home where my friends could come over, or phone in, and race among ourselves. The idea is any number could play, Network or serial. I use other Unixes myself, perhaps this could be a Linux application. It powers my Internet Service Provider. Something to keep costs down. It would not be unreasonable to expect an NT server, running personal NT, if that's what you have been developing. Make it a true 32 bit app. Give me an excuse for getting a P6. Make it exploit multi processors, off load tasks from the client machines. Curbs: Any sim has to make compromises. You have made good decisions as to what to model, and what to not model. I've heard it described as "2 1/2 D". But with the current and near-future computer horsepower, perhaps you can think about curbs, optional. Just shaking the car vertically, with a reasonable effect on the handling, would be fine with me. No engine blow up mode: Some people who are just learning this game can't seem to keep from blowing up their engine. This would save some grief. Extra, "magic" traction would help the real wimps, but enough about me. Different identities for different players: This hasn't been a problem for my friends and I, so it might not be a problem at all. This is for those who wish to compete in seasons. I could be wrong here, but it seems that there is only one identifiable person. If I have several people taking turns at the wheel, is there a way for each to keep their own season on the machine? Forgive me if this is a waste of bandwidth, I've never tried a season. For servers, keep the driver's record on the servers to allow any player to be at any client machine. Better sound: The sound isn't bad now. I would prefer the raspier sound I heard on TV while the in-car camera, and mike, were running. You could take some time to mike the sample car better. And do more lab work on the samples if you feel there are elements of the sound that aren't right. Selected Formula 3 series: I think I'd pick French for the first release, with all of the "other" Formula 3 events, Monaco, Donington Park, Zandvoort, and Macau. I don't know much about most of these tracks, but I know a lot about a few of them. I believe the Formula 1 license is unavailable. Thanks Larry

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> Different identities for different players: > This hasn't been a problem for my friends and I, so it might not > be a problem at all. This is for those who wish to compete in > seasons. I could be wrong here, but it seems that there is only > one identifiable person. If I have several people taking turns > at the wheel, is there a way for each to keep their own season on > the machine? Forgive me if this is a waste of bandwidth, I've > never tried a season.

This is something I'd like. My kids love to play, but they need auto-brake, auto-shift, etc. Dave

> Here is my wish list for ICR III. > Network server program: > While I'm sure this would be fun, and I'm sure you would have > reasonable rates, I would rather pay a few extra bucks to have a > server in my home where my friends could come over, or phone in, > and race among ourselves. <lots of other great suggestions snipped> 200% in agreeance. Please provide IPX LAN support so we can compete where we either won't have access to the WAN? (viz antipodes) or don't wish to join in the WAN racing, preferring the improved play, control and co-ordination of a LAN vs WAN. Make it an optional module and we have a choice of user pays. The current spate of "exclusive online agreements" a la Spectrum HoloBytes Falcon 4.0, Back to Bagdhad without LAN and modem support and obvious marketing decision not to include LAN support in Papyrus's (Sierra's) Indycar II are arrogantly contemptuous of the customer. When they can be instituted into the sim fluidly ...yes please. A selectable rev limiter would be superb. More realistic sound as heard from the***pit. Regards, ---Cogito Ergo Sum--- * * Fidonet: 3:640/377 * Keiron Rado, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia *

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>> Here is my wish list for ICR III. >> Network server program: >> While I'm sure this would be fun, and I'm sure you would have >> reasonable rates, I would rather pay a few extra bucks to have a >> server in my home where my friends could come over, or phone in, >> and race among ourselves. ><lots of other great suggestions snipped> >200% in agreeance. Please provide IPX LAN support so we can compete >where we either won't have access to the WAN? (viz antipodes) or don't >wish to join in the WAN racing, preferring the improved play, control >and co-ordination of a LAN vs WAN. Make it an optional module and we >have a choice of user pays. >The current spate of "exclusive online agreements" a la Spectrum >HoloBytes Falcon 4.0, Back to Bagdhad without LAN and modem support >and obvious marketing decision not to include LAN support in Papyrus's >(Sierra's) Indycar II are arrogantly contemptuous of the customer.

Where do you get such information? "Obvious marketing decision"? I don't think you've played ICR II very much, have you? I have, and judging from what I see on my PC and from what Rick Genter kindly posts here, I'd say they had their hands *FULL* just getting the current product to market. In my opinion, if the folks at Papyrus had decided to "not be so arrogantly contemptuous" (in your opinion) they would have had to release a product which was so incomplete that most of the rest of us wouldn't have considered it a product, or they would have delayed it until 1997. Pick any two: - full featured - fully debugged - delivered in 1995. There's a limit to what humans can do in a given amount of time. I think the folks at Papyrus did an incredible job in the last twelve months just getting where they did. Anyone who thinks that Papyrus could have added many more features, or that they ignored their customer has clearly never developed and supported a software product. I have, and I respect their judgement. Anyone who feels that this is "arrogantly contemptuous of the customer" is, in fact, arrogantly presumptuous. The nature of your requests for features seem reasonable, though. -- Brian Wong Systems Engineering Group (Servers)

Hi Brian 8 ^) The same place/s *you* can if you care to *actually research* the issue/s. Their own W3 sites where the news is clearly posted, and from e-mail to the relevant individuals, who as I'm sure even you can understand, deserve the confidentiality of their private e-mail responses respected. But then you'd have to pay attention to detail Brian, and not just read the headlines or swallow their slick "we're doing it in the best interest of the customer" euphemisms. Now who's being incorrectly and arrogantly presumptious? Are you sure you aren't in marketing Mr. WONG? <g> What in earth has playing Indycar II got to do with a comment on their decision not to include LAN support?!! You have a serious flaw in your logic circuit there Brian! <g> They're gonna'love ya!...but again, what has this to do with the topic??? They don't seem to have "their hands *FULL*" sufficiently to be too busy to include future WAN support ..do they? This is absolutely drivel, and incorrect both in reality and fact. Please undertake remedial reading classes before you attempt to respond to any more of my posts. Congratulations. You've done a nice job of distorting what I said in the full paragraph out of all context, and tried to make it appear a full ***ed attack on Papyrus. Not so.(see above for those not wishing to read the original full article) It is clear for anyone reasonably conversant with the English language and an IQ greater than their shoe size, that I was referring to corporate marketing in general, and gave several specific examples thereof, Papyrus being 1 of 3 companies mentioned thereoff. I can only assume your powers of deduction and perspective are similar in quality to your attention to detail and logic. 'Blind Freddy' could see why there is no LAN in Indycar II, or BTB...or dare I say it Falcon 4.0? Further, why don't you actually get your facts together rather than posting this illogical and biased trash. Speak to Mr. "X", and he'll tell you that IPX LAN for 6-8 wouldn't have been very difficult to implement in ICR II and was pulled by marketing, and was not a technical hindrance at all. Or in plain simple English, you're wrong ...Mr. WONG. <smile> OK I may be wrong about Falcon 4.0 LAN, and I *sincerely* hope I am...for all of us....but experience of human nature says that I'll offer *you* odds on that Falcon 4.0 *won't* include LAN support because of their exclusive online agreement with TEN. Now put your money where your mouth errr...keyboard <g> is! Now you tell me 'Oh self proclaimed Master of Indycar II', who would be *PREDOMINENTLY* responsible for such a decision, tech or marketing??? I mean, if tech are clever enough to implement WAN, well I'll leave that to you powers of deduction...on second thought, maybe I'd better not! <smile> - IPX LAN support yes But you've left out LAN...'cause you're not interested in it? Afraid of a bit of *thinking* multiplayer competition are we? I added it for you and it becomes my second choice of 4. Co-ordinating 6 people on a network for any degree of serious simulation is a mastery in itself, and that's with real time comms. You'd probably appreciate that if you'd flown Falcon to any degree on a LAN. As for the organised arcade chaos of 32 people, with limited voice comms ability (if at all), of varying skill levels at remote locations on a WAN...<bfg> ..with crash damage on...well I guess it'd probably be the sort of game *you'd* enjoy. <cs> Did I say otherwise? Your attempted innuendo is despicible, and I hope is not fully indicative of your character in general. In fact I have publicly thanked Rick on several occasions and praised aspects of the work of Papyrus. You conveniently missed this detail though I notice. Hmmmm... Do you also drive Indycar II with your myopia left turned on? Guilty your Honour....of thinking...a crime you will undoubtedly never be indicted for. And yes they could've added a feature, LAN support...You're inferring that putting WAN suppport into the Indycar II product was easier....??? You must enjoy that game called "Climbing the Greasy Pole". <g> Do your research though, Papyrus is probably firing, not hiring, ...well non-tech staff anyway, and your forte is obviously marketing. <g> I'll have to take your words with the levity they deserve here I'm afraid. <ROTFL> Almost without exclusion, every one of the points made in your response were ill researched, presumtuous with no basis in fact, emotive, and seeking public aplause by innuendo and distortion. As for arrogance...your own ill founded presumptions give it new meaning. I shall have to forward it to the Oxford Press for re-definition. <g> Now let's get back to Indycar II, points both good and bad. It ain't perfect like you ...you know. <g> Regards, ---Cogito Ergo Sum--- * * Fidonet: 3:640/377 * Keiron Rado, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia *

Keiron... a bit of hyperbole, but applause! I think the dilemma Papyrus borne Sierra is experiencing with philosophy on selling multi-player is quite amusing. ancient koan might be all... "a live bird in the air is worth many dead birds in the cage" (or something...)

There is just on big wish (besides better AI, of course): A TRACK EDITOR! I know, 'somebody' is always posting that it would take too much time, and the tools are not easy to use. But HEY! I spent 500+ hours with ICR 1, and I hope I'm getting my PhD in computer science soon... I'm ready to spend 100+ hours to design my own track, and I guess there are several others out, too... Herbert

If you're getting a PhD is CS, then write you own track editor! Mike

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|> > |> >There is just on big wish (besides better AI, of course): |> > |> >A TRACK EDITOR! |> > |> >I know, 'somebody' is always posting that it would take too much time, |> >and the tools are not easy to use. But HEY! I spent 500+ hours |> >with ICR 1, and I hope I'm getting my PhD in computer science soon... |> > |> >I'm ready to spend 100+ hours to design my own track, and I guess |> >there are several others out, too... |> > |> > Herbert |> |> If you're getting a PhD is CS, then write you own track editor! |> |> Mike |>

Of course, I have already considered this. But decoding the strange data format is a bit too timeconsuming :-( Herbert

HP>There is just on big wish (besides better AI, of course): HP>A TRACK EDITOR! HP>I know, 'somebody' is always posting that it would take too much time, >and the tools are not easy to use. But HEY! I spent 500+ hours >with ICR 1, and I hope I'm getting my PhD in computer science soon... HP>I'm ready to spend 100+ hours to design my own track, and I guess >there are several others out, too... Hehehe...you think a 100 hours will build you a good track? A good level for DOOM takes that much. --- * TLX v4.10 * "If you've got a better idea, I'm all ears" --- * OLX 2.2 TD *

Please no track editors. The real drivers cant edit thier tracks Brian B.C. Canada

> Please no track editors. The real drivers cant edit thier tracks > Brian > > B.C. Canada > No, but real fans can then get real tracks that aren't and probably won't be included until future releases of the game. Tracks like the new Homestead Oval and the Brazillian tracks. Of course some "might" want to even race the Indy track(baw Humbug until the IRL deal is cleared up) and Nascar boys would dearly love to draft at Daytona. A track editor would be a handy utility. But according to Rick Genter, not much possiblity of ever working. Too much hands on editing involved. Dave Henrie * JABBER v1.1 * "You Pathetic Decendant of Monkeys!"--WC]I[ -- | Fidonet: Dave Henrie 1:346/25 | Fido -> Internet/Usenet via Net 346 Services

soon... If you getting your "PhD" soon as you keep telling us, write your own damn track editor. Mike