Here I am, my third day trying to come to grips with ICR2.
After reading everyone elses post about how great it is, I'm left wondering
what the heck's up.
I'll take just one track as an example. Milwaukee. I've run thousands of laps
in the original ICR over the past year at Milwaukee, laps speeds around
170mph with no problem.
Now I come to ICR2. I've dropped the boost down to the first setting,
effectivly giving me about 37 inches of boost at speed. I've put both wings
at 18.00 degrees, the max. Yet I STILL can't manage even a single lap full
throttle without excessive tire scrub, and even then just barely holding
myself off the walls. I feel like I'm dirt trackin my car around in the
International Ice Racing Assoc. Is this just me, or what?
At every track I feel like there's nowhere near any realistic amount of grip
that there was in ICR1.
Just thought I'd get this off my chest and see what others say. My initial
impression is that this version leans more towards an arcade game and not a
serious simulation. Back to ICR1 for now..bugs and all..
--
: Here I am, my third day trying to come to grips with ICR2.
: After reading everyone elses post about how great it is, I'm left wondering
: what the heck's up.
: I'll take just one track as an example. Milwaukee. I've run thousands of laps
: in the original ICR over the past year at Milwaukee, laps speeds around
: 170mph with no problem.
: Now I come to ICR2. I've dropped the boost down to the first setting,
: effectivly giving me about 37 inches of boost at speed. I've put both wings
: at 18.00 degrees, the max. Yet I STILL can't manage even a single lap full
: throttle without excessive tire scrub, and even then just barely holding
: myself off the walls. I feel like I'm dirt trackin my car around in the
: International Ice Racing Assoc. Is this just me, or what?
: At every track I feel like there's nowhere near any realistic amount of grip
: that there was in ICR1.
: Just thought I'd get this off my chest and see what others say. My initial
: impression is that this version leans more towards an arcade game and not a
: serious simulation. Back to ICR1 for now..bugs and all..
You should try driving around the Long Beach track, with the
ACE setup. It is hilarious. Going along Shoreline Drive flat out
in 6th and the car suddenly starts oversteering. What the hell
is that all about?
Then in the slow corners, the car turns in like it is on
rails, you head towards the apex and then wham; instant understeer,
straight into the wall. How can a car turn in so well and then
become an understeering shopping cart?
The "snap-understeer" effect affects all the chassi(s) and is a
major pain on road course. I think there is something badly wrong
with the car's driving model.
Oh, the ***y over-rev light doesn't work, so if you actually
manage to get the car 'round a few corners you will probably blow
the engine later.
If this is a more realistic simulation than ICR1 then great,
but I think ICR2 is destined to become shelfware pretty soon
for me. It is just too frustrating.
Oh well, I'll wait for the first patches to appear and hope
they improve things, otherwise...
Robh.
Quoted text (8 lines)
> : Here I am, my third day trying to come to grips with ICR2. > : After reading everyone elses post about how great it is, I'm left wondering > : what the heck's up. > : I'll take just one track as an example. Milwaukee. I've run thousands of laps > : in the original ICR over the past year at Milwaukee, laps speeds around > : 170mph with no problem.Xen,
Actually, the original game was not correct with regard to the short
ovals. You could go flat out around Milwaukee and Loudon in ICR 1.
However, in real life, the drivers have to lift and even brake in order to
get around those tracks fast. So, it's just something to get used to
again. The whole physics model has been changed and adjusted.
Adam
Papyrus
Quoted text (8 lines)
>Xen, > Actually, the original game was not correct with regard to the short >ovals. You could go flat out around Milwaukee and Loudon in ICR 1. >However, in real life, the drivers have to lift and even brake in order to >get around those tracks fast. So, it's just something to get used to >again. The whole physics model has been changed and adjusted. >Adam >Papyrus>Here I am, my third day trying to come to grips with ICR2.
>After reading everyone elses post about how great it is, I'm left wondering
>what the heck's up.
<snip>
I agree, what the hell is up. I tried Long Beach last night and couldn't
get down shoreline without hhuuggee oversteer, so I dialed in a ton of
understeer. This worked (albeit with slow lap times - 58's - for about 4
laps, then BANG completely undriveable oversteer again. What is going on ?
I know I am not very good yet, but come on this is ridiculous....
--
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: Oh well, I'll wait for the first patches to appear and hope
: they improve things, otherwise...
What kills it for me is the control selections - I tried the demo
last night, and:
(a) Many keys cannot be selected (e.g. 'A' for accelerate, '<' & '>' steering)
(b) This really pisses me off, as it seems like a novice programming error
but many games suffer from it (_not_ F1GP, note:-): interrupts are not
disabled when reading the joystick. On my laptop, clock interrupts seems
to take varying amounts of time (regardless of power management settings),
thus the joystick value jumps around all over the place. In some games, this
is not too bad a problem in the game itself, as the "spikes" are of very
short duration, but with ICR2 the cursor races around the menus making it
unusable, _and_ there is no way to turn off joystick control in menus
(unlike F1GP).
I spent a lot of money on Indycar, the track pack and the paint kit,
for a game which I don't play, and I'm not going to spend money on Indycar 2
until the above problems are fixed. What I wonder, though, is how will I
know when they're fixed? I don't suppose another version of the demo will
be released alongside new patches...
>Xen,
> Actually, the original game was not correct with regard to the short
>ovals. You could go flat out around Milwaukee and Loudon in ICR 1.
>However, in real life, the drivers have to lift and even brake in order to
>get around those tracks fast. So, it's just something to get used to
>again. The whole physics model has been changed and adjusted.
Also (somebody from Papyrus please correct me if this isn't true) but
since we're using 1995 cars, we must be using the 1995 IndyCar (eg CART)
rules, which dictate substantially lower downforce?
--
Brian Wong Systems Engineering Group (Servers)
[snip]
: short duration, but with ICR2 the cursor races around the menus making it
: unusable, _and_ there is no way to turn off joystick control in menus
: (unlike F1GP).
[snip]
When the cursor races about madly like that press the J key.
p.s. your reply to address is bogus -- If I try to mail a response it
bounces back.
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
: What kills it for me is the control selections - I tried the demo
: last night, and:
: (a) Many keys cannot be selected (e.g. 'A' for accelerate, '<' & '>' steering)
Craig, some keys in the game are hard coded. 'A' brings up the accelerate time
option and '<' & '>' adjust the setup changes that are radioed to the pit crew.
This is *not* due to a programming error. Papyrus could have made all these
keys configurable, but judging from the number of people that have trouble
simply setting up thier joysticks they made the right choice in hard coding it.
: (b) This really pisses me off, as it seems like a novice programming error
: but many games suffer from it (_not_ F1GP, note:-): interrupts are not
: disabled when reading the joystick. On my laptop, clock interrupts seems
: to take varying amounts of time (regardless of power management settings),
: thus the joystick value jumps around all over the place. In some games, this
: is not too bad a problem in the game itself, as the "spikes" are of very
: short duration, but with ICR2 the cursor races around the menus making it
: unusable, _and_ there is no way to turn off joystick control in menus
: (unlike F1GP).
The 'J' key at the main menu turns off the joystick control in the menu. This
is mentioned several times in the manual as well as in the readme.txt and in
the trouble shooting section of the installation manual.
: I spent a lot of money on Indycar, the track pack and the paint kit,
: for a game which I don't play, and I'm not going to spend money on Indycar 2
: until the above problems are fixed. What I wonder, though, is how will I
: know when they're fixed? I don't suppose another version of the demo will
: be released alongside new patches...
Perhaps spending some time reading the manual might enlighten you to some of
the aspects of the game that you may be missing.
Mike
P.S.- I'd love to see you crack Wilsh's code
: Craig, some keys in the game are hard coded. 'A' brings up the accelerate
time
: option and '<' & '>' adjust the setup changes that are radioed to the pit
crew.
: This is *not* due to a programming error. Papyrus could have made all these
: keys configurable, but judging from the number of people that have trouble
: simply setting up thier joysticks they made the right choice in hard coding
it.
I have been in the software products business for over 10 years now, and
if I've learned one thing in all that time, it is *never* assume you are
doing people a favour by hard-coding things that with a bit more effort
can be made configurable - someone in Outer Mongolia will always try to
use your product on an adm3a with a broken return key, and be upset
because they can't (and then post to comp.unix.i386 rubbishing you!) :-)
But seriously, it doesn't have to be easy to redefine all the keys, as
I'm quite happy that *most* users won't want to, but if you're going to
let me redefine any of them, you really ought to let me redefine all of
them somehow (edit a text file, or even hex-edit the .cfg file if I have
to). (Oh, and if it said "that key is already used for something" when
I try picking 'A' for accelerate, I would at least understand, and not
think "this is crap, it can't even see the 'A' key on my keyboard").
: The 'J' key at the main menu turns off the joystick control in the menu.
This
: is mentioned several times in the manual as well as in the readme.txt and in
: the trouble shooting section of the installation manual.
Thanks to Michael Carver for also pointing this out - my copy of Indycar
was the very first version, and he suggests that this may not have been
in the early versions - I haven't checked my manual yet as it's in the
Cretaceous layer of my home filing system :-)
Anyway, I do have 1.05 now (thanks to the track-pack or paintkit, I forget
which), and I tried this last night. It does indeed turn off joystick
control in the menus, which allows me to calibrate the joystick and get to
the track. Unfortunately, even when at rest, you can sit there and watch
the wheels flick from side to side due to the joystick read problem, and
it is completely undrivable.
I also tried it in the Indycar 2 demo, and 'J' does _not_ turn off joystick
control in the menus, so I am unable to even get as far as the track to see
if it drives OK.
So, my problem remains - unless the Indycar 2 game reads the joystick
properly (i.e. turns off interrupts) I can't play with the joystick,
and I can't use a key layout I'm comfortable with. The game _looks_
great, and there's every indication that it would be more fun than
Indycar, but I'm not buying it just on the offchance that these problems
get fixed in a patch, and how will I know if and when they are?
thats where you're wrong....the "realistic amount of grip" in icr1 is totally
unlike what you would find at a real track...
even the traction in icr2 is too much....
>I also tried it in the Indycar 2 demo, and 'J' does _not_ turn off joystick
>control in the menus, so I am unable to even get as far as the track to see
>if it drives OK.
It may not work in the demo, but I just got done getting the game to work with
my ensoniq wavetable in windows 95, and it does turn off the joystick control in
the menus in the release cd-rom.
>So, my problem remains - unless the Indycar 2 game reads the joystick
>properly (i.e. turns off interrupts) I can't play with the joystick,
>and I can't use a key layout I'm comfortable with. The game _looks_
>great, and there's every indication that it would be more fun than
>Indycar, but I'm not buying it just on the offchance that these problems
>get fixed in a patch, and how will I know if and when they are?
Again, they DO work in the actual game (joystick settings that is), but not in
the demo apparently, judging from your experience. I don't think anything has
changed regarding the key settings, however.
In the game, when the game is in the main menu, you can hit 'J' to disable the
joystick, then go into the controls menu and calibrate the joystick. Works like
a charm.
Have fun.
Scott
So, my problem remains - unless the Indycar 2 game reads the joystick
properly (i.e. turns off interrupts) I can't play with the joystick,
<<<
We do disable interrupts while reading the joystick; it sounds to me like
you have a flaky joystick.
On the other hand, if you are playing in a DOS box in Windows 95 (not
exclusive DOS mode), Windows 95 doesn't *allow* us to turn off interrupts.
This is one of the reasons why we recommend not playing the game from a
DOS box.
Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.
