Is it just me? (GTR Demo)

The GTR Demo has actually left me a bit cold, and now regardless of multiplayer I'm going to put the purchase on "hold" as far as Day 1 is concerned, I may well "wait and see" now - something I couldn't have imagined after trying the press demo. Performance is a lot more demanding than I expected with 19 cars, having to run 800x600 no AA/AF with settings set to medium just to get a playable framerate at the start (i.e. framerate above single figures) leaves GTR looking... well, very messy and very jaggy. The AI seems to suffer from multiple personality disorder, once in front of you they are aggressive in the extreme (great!) - however once behind you they wimp out, to the point where there were areas of the track I could slow down to 50 mph and have a trail of cars tailing me not even trying to pass. (oh...) Admittedly it's only semi-pro (Another disappointment) in this demo, but I cannot for the life of me fathom why. It leaves me thinking why didn't they want us to see the improvements made to sim mode... are there any?... etc. etc. Hopefully this is just over-hype expectations coming down to ground level, but I do think that this demo may well turn some people off GTR. Time to run through Frazier Wells in my virtual Subaru again, after that I'll try the demo again with fresh eyes. Your thoughts so far?

"Alan C. Daly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ckh52g$809$[email hidden]...

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> The GTR Demo has actually left me a bit cold, and now regardless of > multiplayer I'm going to put the purchase on "hold" as far as Day 1 is > concerned, I may well "wait and see" now - something I couldn't have > imagined after trying the press demo. > > Performance is a lot more demanding than I expected with 19 cars, having > to run 800x600 no AA/AF with settings set to medium just to get a > playable framerate at the start (i.e. framerate above single figures) > leaves GTR looking... well, very messy and very jaggy. > > The AI seems to suffer from multiple personality disorder, once in front > of you they are aggressive in the extreme (great!) - however once behind > you they wimp out, to the point where there were areas of the track I > could slow down to 50 mph and have a trail of cars tailing me not even > trying to pass. (oh...) > > Admittedly it's only semi-pro (Another disappointment) in this demo, but > I cannot for the life of me fathom why. It leaves me thinking why didn't > they want us to see the improvements made to sim mode... are there > any?... etc. etc. > > Hopefully this is just over-hype expectations coming down to ground > level, but I do think that this demo may well turn some people off GTR. > > Time to run through Frazier Wells in my virtual Subaru again, after that > I'll try the demo again with fresh eyes. > > Your thoughts so far?

It's not just you. This is one of the most overhyped developments around right now.

> Your thoughts so far? It takes entirely too long to download :)

Same problems as far as AI. Other drivers are pretty wimpy after you pass them. Had no problems with frame rate running 1024 x 768, 32bit. Couldn't get auto-shift to work properly. Upshifts were fine. Downshifts---non-existant. "Alan C. Daly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ckh52g$809$[email hidden]...

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> The GTR Demo has actually left me a bit cold, and now regardless of > multiplayer I'm going to put the purchase on "hold" as far as Day 1 is > concerned, I may well "wait and see" now - something I couldn't have > imagined after trying the press demo. > > Performance is a lot more demanding than I expected with 19 cars, having > to run 800x600 no AA/AF with settings set to medium just to get a playable > framerate at the start (i.e. framerate above single figures) leaves GTR > looking... well, very messy and very jaggy. > > The AI seems to suffer from multiple personality disorder, once in front > of you they are aggressive in the extreme (great!) - however once behind > you they wimp out, to the point where there were areas of the track I > could slow down to 50 mph and have a trail of cars tailing me not even > trying to pass. (oh...) > > Admittedly it's only semi-pro (Another disappointment) in this demo, but I > cannot for the life of me fathom why. It leaves me thinking why didn't > they want us to see the improvements made to sim mode... are there any?... > etc. etc. > > Hopefully this is just over-hype expectations coming down to ground level, > but I do think that this demo may well turn some people off GTR. > > Time to run through Frazier Wells in my virtual Subaru again, after that > I'll try the demo again with fresh eyes. > > Your thoughts so far?

"cronik" <[email hidden]> wrote > > This is one of the most overhyped developments around right now. How would you know? Martin.

cronik wrote:

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> "Alan C. Daly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ckh52g$809$[email hidden]... > >>The GTR Demo has actually left me a bit cold, and now regardless of >>multiplayer I'm going to put the purchase on "hold" as far as Day 1 is >>concerned, I may well "wait and see" now - something I couldn't have >>imagined after trying the press demo. >> >>Performance is a lot more demanding than I expected with 19 cars, having >>to run 800x600 no AA/AF with settings set to medium just to get a >>playable framerate at the start (i.e. framerate above single figures) >>leaves GTR looking... well, very messy and very jaggy. >> >>The AI seems to suffer from multiple personality disorder, once in front >>of you they are aggressive in the extreme (great!) - however once behind >>you they wimp out, to the point where there were areas of the track I >>could slow down to 50 mph and have a trail of cars tailing me not even >>trying to pass. (oh...) >> >>Admittedly it's only semi-pro (Another disappointment) in this demo, but >>I cannot for the life of me fathom why. It leaves me thinking why didn't >>they want us to see the improvements made to sim mode... are there >>any?... etc. etc. >> >>Hopefully this is just over-hype expectations coming down to ground >>level, but I do think that this demo may well turn some people off GTR. >> >>Time to run through Frazier Wells in my virtual Subaru again, after that >>I'll try the demo again with fresh eyes. >> >>Your thoughts so far? > > > It's not just you. > > This is one of the most overhyped developments around right now. > >

I should have mentioned, thoughts from the arcade-lite, no-skills peanut gallery are not invited :P After a second spin around Spa I'm starting to warm to it a little. Performance is still shocking, I've managed to trim things so I can run @ 1024x768 and get 14-17fps at the start (Back of grid, 14 cars visible) and around 25-35fps while "solo" - Yet I can't actually SEE where this game is demanding graphically, it looks at these settings about on par with Nascar 2003, yet with 1/2 to 1/3 the framerate :/ AI has shown some interesting moments, but the "won't overtake you even at 50mph" still rears it's head often, it's almost as if once a car is so close to your backend he's tailgating you he sticks there, regardless of you slowing down and waving the arm out the window :P. (I recall this happening in F1C too.) Given the kind of rig needed to play this at acceptable settings is beyond my current budget I think I'll wait on RAS & RSC reports before buying. Still, With RBR still to master, Half-Life 2 weeks away AND Pro Evolution 4 on the horizon I think I'll have plenty to play regardless of how long I wait :|

cronik wrote:

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> "Alan C. Daly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ckh52g$809$[email hidden]... > >>The GTR Demo has actually left me a bit cold, and now regardless of >>multiplayer I'm going to put the purchase on "hold" as far as Day 1 is >>concerned, I may well "wait and see" now - something I couldn't have >>imagined after trying the press demo. >> >>Performance is a lot more demanding than I expected with 19 cars, having >>to run 800x600 no AA/AF with settings set to medium just to get a >>playable framerate at the start (i.e. framerate above single figures) >>leaves GTR looking... well, very messy and very jaggy. >> >>The AI seems to suffer from multiple personality disorder, once in front >>of you they are aggressive in the extreme (great!) - however once behind >>you they wimp out, to the point where there were areas of the track I >>could slow down to 50 mph and have a trail of cars tailing me not even >>trying to pass. (oh...) >> >>Admittedly it's only semi-pro (Another disappointment) in this demo, but >>I cannot for the life of me fathom why. It leaves me thinking why didn't >>they want us to see the improvements made to sim mode... are there >>any?... etc. etc. >> >>Hopefully this is just over-hype expectations coming down to ground >>level, but I do think that this demo may well turn some people off GTR. >> >>Time to run through Frazier Wells in my virtual Subaru again, after that >>I'll try the demo again with fresh eyes. >> >>Your thoughts so far? > > > It's not just you. > > This is one of the most overhyped developments around right now. > >

It's a WIP! Simulation Mode is not enabled...jesus!

That would be like TRD2 and CMR2005 then ! Andi. -- Remove only one zero to reply "cronik" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yjVad.12792$[email hidden]... > SNIP > > It's not just you. > > This is one of the most overhyped developments around right now. > >

> Performance is still shocking, I've managed to trim things so I can run > @ 1024x768 and get 14-17fps at the start (Back of grid, 14 cars visible) > and around 25-35fps while "solo" - Yet I can't actually SEE where this > game is demanding graphically, it looks at these settings about on par > with Nascar 2003, yet with 1/2 to 1/3 the framerate :/ You mention not of your system specs in either of your posts.

Destroy wrote:

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> > >> Performance is still shocking, I've managed to trim things so I can >> run @ 1024x768 and get 14-17fps at the start (Back of grid, 14 cars >> visible) and around 25-35fps while "solo" - Yet I can't actually SEE >> where this game is demanding graphically, it looks at these settings >> about on par with Nascar 2003, yet with 1/2 to 1/3 the framerate :/ > > > You mention not of your system specs in either of your posts. >

Oops, Yeah I guess that would be useful, sorry. Specs: Athlon XP 2500+ 'Barton' @ 1.83Ghz 1 Gigabyte RAM (TwinMos PC2700) Sapphire ATI Radeon 9600XT 128Mb "Fireblade" w/4.9 Catalyst Drivers Windows XP Pro (SP2) DirectX 9.0c BRD Sim Pro Wheel & Pedals My Windows XP set-up is ultra-trimmed, I have a pair of scripts that start/stop all unnecessary services for when gaming, and all taskbar/resident processes killed. For comparison, this set-up gives me 70-85fps+ in Nascar 2003 all settings maxxed @ 1024x768, about 53fps in Half-Life 2's "Video Stress Test and about 40fps in RBR @ 1024x768 w/2xAA 2xAF. Alan.

Alan C. Daly <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ckh52g$809$[email hidden]...

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> The GTR Demo has actually left me a bit cold, and now regardless of > multiplayer I'm going to put the purchase on "hold" as far as Day 1 is > concerned, I may well "wait and see" now - something I couldn't have > imagined after trying the press demo. > > Performance is a lot more demanding than I expected with 19 cars, having > to run 800x600 no AA/AF with settings set to medium just to get a > playable framerate at the start (i.e. framerate above single figures) > leaves GTR looking... well, very messy and very jaggy. > > The AI seems to suffer from multiple personality disorder, once in front > of you they are aggressive in the extreme (great!) - however once behind > you they wimp out, to the point where there were areas of the track I > could slow down to 50 mph and have a trail of cars tailing me not even > trying to pass. (oh...) > > Admittedly it's only semi-pro (Another disappointment) in this demo, but > I cannot for the life of me fathom why. It leaves me thinking why didn't > they want us to see the improvements made to sim mode... are there > any?... etc. etc. > > Hopefully this is just over-hype expectations coming down to ground > level, but I do think that this demo may well turn some people off GTR. > > Time to run through Frazier Wells in my virtual Subaru again, after that > I'll try the demo again with fresh eyes. > > Your thoughts so far?

Agreed. The AI is pathetic. Having said that, hopefully the mp is good enough that it won't matter......AI racing is ancient history anyway <g> But I'm not holding my breath on the mp either; its the one thing Papy had over anyone else........so far.

>"cronik" <[email hidden]> wrote > > This is one of the most overhyped developments around right now. Aaaaahhhhh... our resident troll going at it again. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Well, I must admit I was baffled. I was reading impressions from some I respect an awful lot at RSC and did just not seem to be seeing the same game. So I spent an entire night "fiddling" with GTR & my PC, @ it looks like I'm seriously CPU bottlenecked. As a test I OC'd my 2500+ to 3200+ speeds (2.25Ghz) and the difference was remarkable, from: @ 2500+ CPU speed: 18 fps @ start / 32 fps average @ 3200+ CPU speed: 23 fps @ start / 44 fps average To confirm I put my CPU back to stock settings and pumped up the AA & AF. @ NoAA / NoAF - 18 fps @ start / 32 fps average @ 2xAA / 2xAF - 18 fps @ start / 32 fps average (Thats right, 100% free) @ 4xAA / 2xAF - 16 fps @ start / 30 fps average (Minimal hit, as good as free) I also noticed very different AI behaviour at the increased framerates, cars that were passively tailing me before at least poked their noses around and bit me several times :P Looks like I'm going to have to upgrade earlier than planned. Alan.

Something's not right there...I've got an Athlon 3200+ and I'm getting a minimum of 30fps when starting from the back of a grid of 20 cars. I haven't touched the graphics options yet. The defaults are just fine. I'm running in 1024x768 but only 16bit since my 9600XT is a pretty crappy card.

> So I spent an entire night "fiddling" with GTR & my PC, @ it looks like > I'm seriously CPU bottlenecked. Yeah, this game is very CPU hungry during a race with lots of cars.

Alan C. Daly wrote: > The GTR Demo has actually left me a bit cold... > Your thoughts so far? IMHO they worked miracles on the tire deformation model or some other part of the suspension or chassis, because the driving / sliding feels pretty real to me even in semi-real mode. The physics are good fun. The sound IMHO seems to have deteriorated since the press demo, though. -- Achim http://users.skynet.be/AchimT

JP wrote: > Agreed. The AI is pathetic. Having said that, hopefully the mp is good > enough that it won't matter......AI racing is ancient history anyway <g> > But I'm not holding my breath on the mp either; its the one thing Papy had > over anyone else........so far. It's been said that there is only one AI "personality" in the demo. The Game will have many different drivers, all with their own driving style. I'm not going to judge the AI on behalf of that demo.

Dont get your hopes up.I hear that the simulation mode has more grip and is "harder" to drive so im thinking it will be like it was in the press demo,No sliding,unrealistically unforgiving ect. "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Alan C. Daly wrote: >> The GTR Demo has actually left me a bit cold... >> Your thoughts so far? > > IMHO they worked miracles on the tire deformation model or some other part > of the suspension or chassis, because the driving / sliding feels pretty > real to me even in semi-real mode. The physics are good fun. > > The sound IMHO seems to have deteriorated since the press demo, though. > > -- > Achim > http://users.skynet.be/AchimT

I'm running 1280 * 1024 32bit 2*AA with a P4 560 (3.6) and an x800xt with two other cars on th ecircuit, in practice I'm getting 120fps around most of the circuit going down to 75fps past the pits. Strangely I'm getting at least one stutter of a few seconds each lap at different positions. I'll go and try a race and see what fps goes down to. Andi. -- Remove only one zero to reply "Destroy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yg0bd.127902$[email hidden]... > > > So I spent an entire night "fiddling" with GTR & my PC, @ it looks like > > I'm seriously CPU bottlenecked. > > Yeah, this game is very CPU hungry during a race with lots of cars. >

OK 45fps on the grid 75-100 during the race. Andi. -- Remove only one zero to reply "Andi Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:416d13b5$0$48000$[email hidden]... > I'm running 1280 * 1024 32bit 2*AA with a P4 560 (3.6) and an x800xt with > two other cars on th ecircuit, in practice I'm getting 120fps around most of > the circuit going down to 75fps past the pits. > > Strangely I'm getting at least one stutter of a few seconds each lap at > different positions. > > I'll go and try a race and see what fps goes down to. > > Andi. > > > -- > > Remove only one zero to reply > > > "Destroy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:yg0bd.127902$[email hidden]... > > > > > So I spent an entire night "fiddling" with GTR & my PC, @ it looks like > > > I'm seriously CPU bottlenecked. > > > > Yeah, this game is very CPU hungry during a race with lots of cars. > > > >

Is the slip angle sounds much better? EL "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Alan C. Daly wrote: > > The GTR Demo has actually left me a bit cold... > > Your thoughts so far? > > IMHO they worked miracles on the tire deformation model or some other > part of the suspension or chassis, because the driving / sliding feels > pretty real to me even in semi-real mode. The physics are good fun. > > The sound IMHO seems to have deteriorated since the press demo, though. > > -- > Achim > http://users.skynet.be/AchimT

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:51:09 -0400, EL wrote: > Is the slip angle sounds much better? > > EL > > > "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message the new demo has separate volume sliders for tyre scrub and squeal, so for me it's much easier to hear what the tyres are doing. uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

"Fcuk U" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XmXad.2262$[email hidden]... > > > It's a WIP! Simulation Mode is not enabled...jesus! Yeah, but why is sim mode disabled?

Uwe Sch�rkamp wrote:

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> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:51:09 -0400, EL wrote: > >>Is the slip angle sounds much better? >> >>EL >> >> >>"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > the new demo has separate volume sliders for tyre scrub and squeal, so > for me it's much easier to hear what the tyres are doing. > > uwe > >

Hehe, after reading your post I went and checked. (Missed these before) After checking I have decided, GTR is now officially the "Spinal Tap" of racing sims. Only way that I can think of explaining the fact that the scrub/squeal sliders *start* at 100% and go all the way up to 200% :P "Not just an ordinary sim, this is special, it goes all the way up to 200%!!!!" :D I've warmed a lot since I've managed to get a decent performance out of it at last. Alan.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:23:55 +0000 (UTC), Alan C. Daly wrote: > > "Not just an ordinary sim, this is special, it goes all the way up to > 200%!!!!" > >:D Weren't some guitar amplifiers sold with scales going up all the way to 11? ;-) > > I've warmed a lot since I've managed to get a decent performance out of > it at last. Same here, after a mixed beginning I am really starting to enjoy the driving experience in the new demo. I get around 25fps at the start with 12AI, then it quickly settles into the low fourties which is very driveable for me. I found a glaring obmission though: Sometimes when the pit crew contacts you over radio you'll hear cars screaming down the straight into Eau Rouge, even when there aren't any! Must be this semi-pro thingy, I believe this won't happen in "Simulation", right? ;-) All the best, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Byron Forbes wrote:

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> "Fcuk U" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:XmXad.2262$[email hidden]... > > >>It's a WIP! Simulation Mode is not enabled...jesus! > > > Yeah, but why is sim mode disabled? > >

it's not finished yet?

"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Alan C. Daly wrote: > > The GTR Demo has actually left me a bit cold... > > Your thoughts so far? > > IMHO they worked miracles on the tire deformation model or some other > part of the suspension or chassis, because the driving / sliding feels > pretty real to me even in semi-real mode. The physics are good fun. > > The sound IMHO seems to have deteriorated since the press demo, though. > > -- > Achim > http://users.skynet.be/AchimT

I'm disappointed by the way the car in the demo (old demo and new) handles. Too much understeer. Sloppy handling overall. I worked on the setup a bit and made it better, but the car still basically drives like a piece of junk. Certainly not the way I'd expect one of the best race cars in the world to handle. Even the Cup boats in N2003, with the expert setup at WG as an example, handle much better than this GT car! One of these two sims has got it very, very wrong apparently. -- David G Fisher

> I'm not going to judge the AI on behalf of that demo. Neither will I . What do you expect a Demo to be ? A demostration of a upcoming release.......geez

> Yeah, but why is sim mode disabled? According to a SimBin member, the demo is intended to be something that could be featured on the cover of your garden variety gaming magazine. That it's d/l'able is just a bonus. IOW, they're looking to generate interest from a market segment other than regular simmers. They won't be interested if all they feel is frustration. It would've been nice though if they had included sim tire/physics files in the directory that could be renamed for use in Semi-Pro. That way, we would've gotten a peek, but the average Joe wouldn't have even known it was there. Alan

> I'm disappointed by the way the car in the demo (old demo and new)handles. > Too much understeer. Sloppy handling overall. I worked on the setup a bit > and made it better, but the car still basically drives like a piece ofjunk. > Certainly not the way I'd expect one of the best race cars in the world to > handle. It feels just the opposite to me. Tidy turn-in with great response to throttle changes. Only thing is that the window for which that happens isn't terribly large. Maybe I'm just slow. :) > Even the Cup boats in N2003, with the expert setup at WG as an example, > handle much better than this GT car! To me, the Cup cars feel more forgiving, but also much heavier (well, ok, they are) and less responsive. Basically, the differences between 'em seem about right to me. Bear in mind though that I'm probably the only person on Earth that thinks the TA physics feel weird. Fun, but weird. Something to do with the tires, I think. Alan

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> I'm disappointed by the way the car in the demo (old demo and new) handles. > Too much understeer. Sloppy handling overall. I worked on the setup a bit > and made it better, but the car still basically drives like a piece of junk. > Certainly not the way I'd expect one of the best race cars in the world to > handle. > > Even the Cup boats in N2003, with the expert setup at WG as an example, > handle much better than this GT car! > > One of these two sims has got it very, very wrong apparently.

Well, it's not really too difficult to figure out which one it is, is it. :)

David G Fisher wrote: ... > I'm disappointed by the way the car in the demo (old demo and new) ... Wow, strange how different two people can perceive the same sim :) -- Achim http://users.skynet.be/AchimT

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:57:57 +0200, Uwe Sch�rkamp <[email hidden]> wrote something like:

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>On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:23:55 +0000 (UTC), Alan C. Daly wrote: >> >> "Not just an ordinary sim, this is special, it goes all the way up to >> 200%!!!!" >> >>:D > >Weren't some guitar amplifiers sold with scales going up all the way >to 11? ;-)

That's where the "Spinal Tap of racing sims" comment came from ;) -- - Jussi Koukku -

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:38:33 +0100, "Andi Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote something like: >I'm running 1280 * 1024 32bit 2*AA with a P4 560 (3.6) and an x800xt with >two other cars on th ecircuit, in practice I'm getting 120fps around most of >the circuit going down to 75fps past the pits. > >Strangely I'm getting at least one stutter of a few seconds each lap at >different positions. I got this in the previous demo if I had vertical sync on. Turning it off helped. Apparently it's an Ati thing (I have a 9800Pro), as I didn't get this with the GF4 that I used to have. -- - Jussi Koukku -

Alan C. Daly wrote: > The GTR Demo has actually left me a bit cold... > Your thoughts so far? I just noticed that the demo installed the Starforce drivers, and will reinstall them everytime you run the game (!). To be honest, no matter whether the SF drivers cause and functional problems, I find it pretty impertinent to install stuff on my system that isn't needed (why should a demo need copy protection?), without asking me, and then even leave the stuff there after I explicitely deinstall the software!? I think I will skip GTR. One has to make a statement, however small and insignificant, against such intrusions and manipulation of one's private property. Because, if X2 indeed uses SF as well, it clearly shows that SF can be used on a 'per use' basis and doesn't need to be installed into the system forever, as X2 installed nothing SF like on my system. -- Achim http://users.skynet.be/AchimT

On 13 Oct 2004 22:07:53 -0700, cronik wrote:

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> "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > >> I'm disappointed by the way the car in the demo (old demo and new) handles. >> Too much understeer. Sloppy handling overall. I worked on the setup a bit >> and made it better, but the car still basically drives like a piece of junk. >> Certainly not the way I'd expect one of the best race cars in the world to >> handle. >> >> Even the Cup boats in N2003, with the expert setup at WG as an example, >> handle much better than this GT car! >> >> One of these two sims has got it very, very wrong apparently. > > Well, it's not really too difficult to figure out which one it is, is it. :)

If Achim likes it, it must be good. I'm serious! Heck, DGF enjoys F1C which leaves me exhausted after 10 laps ;-) Cheers, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

How would they be frustrated? You don't have to not include the arcade physics to leave the Sim mode in there. Or were they worried that just peeking at the sim mode would send the arcaders running in fear? Marc "Alan Le" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qEkbd.12739$[email hidden]...

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>> Yeah, but why is sim mode disabled? > > According to a SimBin member, the demo is intended to be something that > could be featured on the cover of your garden variety gaming magazine. > That > it's d/l'able is just a bonus. IOW, they're looking to generate interest > from a market segment other than regular simmers. They won't be > interested > if all they feel is frustration. It would've been nice though if they had > included sim tire/physics files in the directory that could be renamed for > use in Semi-Pro. That way, we would've gotten a peek, but the average Joe > wouldn't have even known it was there. > > Alan > >

Joachim Trensz <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > I think I will skip GTR. One has to make a statement, however small and > insignificant, against such intrusions and manipulation of one's private > property. I for one admire your honesty and integrity, in fact so much so that I am going to follow suit. We must make a stand people.

> How would they be frustrated? You don't have to not include the arcade > physics to leave the Sim mode in there. Or were they worried that just > peeking at the sim mode would send the arcaders running in fear? You and I know that it'd be dumb for non-simmers/casual racers to just jump into sim mode expecting to race, but they don't know that. Think Gran Turismo fan that thinks driving there is a true sim.... or the guy that wrote that PC Game World review of RBR. Show people a simulation mode, and that's what they'll probably go for. Sure, they want to have immediate racing fun, but they also want the satisfaction of not settling for anything less than "real." It's silly, I know. If there's no choice though, they're less likely to care if the physics are dumbed down a bit. Just think of it this way... have you ever played GT with the "simulation" tires? They're more demanding than the other tires and require more attention to one's inputs. For argument's sake, let's say they definitively are more representative of real life. I'm guessing most players didn't switch to those once they discovered them, and though we'll never know, I don't think GT would've done as well if that was the default tire. Alan

That's right. Your average 15 year old wants to jump straight in and play simulation mode but he also wants to be good at it straight away. If he has trouble controlling it he will immediately tell all his friends that it 'sux'.

Steve Simpson wrote: > ...Your average 15 year old wants to jump straight in and play > simulation mode but he also wants to be good at it straight away. > If he has > trouble controlling it he will immediately tell all > his friends that it 'sux'. In the light of that statement, does the omission of the simulation mode in the demo indicate that GTR was mainly made for 15 year olds? ;) -- Achim http://users.skynet.be/AchimT

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>> ...Your average 15 year old wants to jump straight in and play simulation >> mode but he also wants to be good at it straight away. >> If he has > trouble controlling it he will immediately tell all his >> friends that it 'sux'. > > In the light of that statement, does the omission of the simulation mode > in the demo indicate that GTR was mainly made for 15 year olds? ;)

Yes. Simbin said that this demo is targeted at game magazine cover CDs.

I agree that the starforce thing is stupid... Especially since I don't think it stops piracy at all, does it? I don't know what games already have starforce, but it seems to me like you can't stop piracy. If you DO want to buy GTR but hate starforce, why not just buy the game and then download the pirated version? :) I give you cred for not buyin' GTR because of the obsurd copyprotection though... I haven't even had time to install that demo (with no simulation mode, wtf? pretty stupid for a game whose marketing is based on realism).. i've been playin' RBR too much lately :) Just got done the Professional Chamionship with the 206. 50 points... I dropped out of France on the first stage when I hit a tree. I'm no good at tarmac. Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com "cronik" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Joachim Trensz <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:<[email hidden]>... > >> I think I will skip GTR. One has to make a statement, however small and >> insignificant, against such intrusions and manipulation of one's private >> property. > > I for one admire your honesty and integrity, in fact so much so that I > am going to follow suit. > > We must make a stand people.

The average 15 year old will usually beat a lot of serious 40 year old simmers. The 40 year old simmers will tell everyone it's hard to control because they need to feel it's super realistic, and they don't want their friends and family to think they are actually doing the exact same thing as the 15 year olds. -- David G Fisher "Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > That's right. Your average 15 year old wants to jump straight in and play > simulation mode but he also wants to be good at it straight away. If he has > trouble controlling it he will immediately tell all his friends that it > 'sux'. > >

I usually agree with a lmost of your views on sims, setups, etc., but these cars just seem very boring to drive. Do you really get a rush driving that car on that track? -- David G Fisher "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > David G Fisher wrote: > ... > > I'm disappointed by the way the car in the demo (old demo and new) > ... > Wow, strange how different two people can perceive the same sim :) > > -- > Achim > http://users.skynet.be/AchimT

"Uwe Sch�rkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On 13 Oct 2004 22:07:53 -0700, cronik wrote: > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<[email hidden]>... > > > >> I'm disappointed by the way the car in the demo (old demo and new)handles. > >> Too much understeer. Sloppy handling overall. I worked on the setup abit > >> and made it better, but the car still basically drives like a piece ofjunk. > >> Certainly not the way I'd expect one of the best race cars in the worldto

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> >> handle. > >> > >> Even the Cup boats in N2003, with the expert setup at WG as an example, > >> handle much better than this GT car! > >> > >> One of these two sims has got it very, very wrong apparently. > > > > Well, it's not really too difficult to figure out which one it is, is

it. :)

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> > If Achim likes it, it must be good. I'm serious! Heck, DGF enjoys F1C > which leaves me exhausted after 10 laps ;-) > > Cheers, > > uwe

Nothing better in sim racing than ripping through a few dozen laps in the F1 cars, hitting all your marks, and not making any (serious) mistakes. :-) The TA cars, on fast tracks, are a lot of fun too though. -- David G Fisher

David G Fisher wrote: > I usually agree with a lmost of your views on sims, setups, etc., but these > cars just seem very boring to drive. Do you really get a rush driving that > car on that track?... Do I get a rush - to be honest, no. But I found the car's handling well balanced and feeling real. -- Achim http://users.skynet.be/AchimT

"Fcuk U" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a2fbd.1471$[email hidden]...

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> Byron Forbes wrote: > > > "Fcuk U" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:XmXad.2262$[email hidden]... > > > > > >>It's a WIP! Simulation Mode is not enabled...jesus! > > > > > > Yeah, but why is sim mode disabled? > > > > > it's not finished yet?

But wasn't that press demo in sim mode? I'm always suspicious of demos that aren't "demos" at all! Something to hide?

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > The average 15 year old will usually beat a lot of serious 40 year old > simmers. Speak for yourself! I turn 40 next week, and I can still kick ass when it comes to video games. There aren't many kids out there that can beat me! ;-) Although I did get beaten at beach volleyball on the PS2 - but if you've ever seen it you'll know what was distracting me! :-P R.

The average 15 year old will usually beat a lot of serious 40 year old simmers. The 40 year old simmers will tell everyone it's hard to control because they need to feel it's super realistic, and they don't want their friends and family to think they are actually doing the exact same thing as the 15 year olds. -- David G Fisher --------------------------- That's Dave's excuse, and he's sticking with it. ;-) That's a joke son. -- I'm Richard "ZZ" Busch, and I approved this message. Member: Screamers Racing League OAO MARA TransAm GPL Rank + 17.410 MoGPL Rank + 318.294 N2003 Rank -18.8060 ---------------- Remember racecar is racecar spelled backward -----------------

> The average 15 year old will usually beat a lot of serious 40 year old > simmers. What a crock. I meant the average 15 year old gamer. The aren't many 15 year old simmers around, but I'm sure there's a few that are very talented. I think you need some perspective.

"Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> kirjoitti viestiss�:[email hidden]... >I agree that the starforce thing is stupid... Especially since I don't >think it stops piracy at all, does it? I don't know what games already have >starforce, but it seems to me like you can't stop piracy. > > If you DO want to buy GTR but hate starforce, why not just buy the game > and then download the pirated version? :) The Starforce v3 protection is nasty in that it can be made to scrable files in many kinds of configuratinos; it can only be made to protect the .exe as in most games (and thus, a nocd-exe can be made, and there are some for starforce3 games). It can also be made to protect the game exe and some of the data it directly uses (some dll:s in GTR demo are such, and if it was a full game, a nocd crack wouldn't crack it but a new version of the .exe _and_ the .dll's would be needed). Last but not least, it can be made to protect all of the games files, and that would need a nocd-crack for all of the files in the game (downloadable file, which would be almost as large as the game itself). Or someone would need to crack the protection itself, but that is very difficult because of the protected memory where the starforce driver is in windows kernel. -- Mika Takala

Alan C. Daly wrote: > My Windows XP set-up is ultra-trimmed, I have a pair of scripts that > start/stop all unnecessary services for when gaming, and all > taskbar/resident processes killed. Could you provide those scripts? Tara -- http://users4.ev1.net/~taragem/yager.htm

Here is a link to the freeware EnditAll program that accomplishes what you're looking for. There is a later EnditAll2 program, but you have to subscibe to the PC Magazine web site to get it. I've used both in XP and they work fine. http://www.the-old-sea-dog.net/enditall.html "Tara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Alan C. Daly wrote: > > > My Windows XP set-up is ultra-trimmed, I have a pair of scripts that > > start/stop all unnecessary services for when gaming, and all > > taskbar/resident processes killed. > > Could you provide those scripts? > > Tara > -- > http://users4.ev1.net/~taragem/yager.htm

Yer sure? Site sez it's for Win 98 & NT, not ME nor XP. "Tanstaafl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ULshd.85161$[email hidden]...

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> Here is a link to the freeware EnditAll program that accomplishes what > you're looking for. There is a later EnditAll2 program, but you have to > subscibe to the PC Magazine web site to get it. I've used both in XP and > they work fine. > > http://www.the-old-sea-dog.net/enditall.html > > > "Tara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Alan C. Daly wrote: > > > > > My Windows XP set-up is ultra-trimmed, I have a pair of scripts that > > > start/stop all unnecessary services for when gaming, and all > > > taskbar/resident processes killed. > > > > Could you provide those scripts? > > > > Tara > > -- > > http://users4.ev1.net/~taragem/yager.htm > >

Yer sure? Site sez it's for Win 98 & NT, not ME nor XP.

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> Here is a link to the freeware EnditAll program that accomplishes what > you're looking for. There is a later EnditAll2 program, but you have to > subscibe to the PC Magazine web site to get it. I've used both in XP and > they work fine. > http://www.the-old-sea-dog.net/enditall.html > > > My Windows XP set-up is ultra-trimmed, I have a pair of scripts that > > > start/stop all unnecessary services for when ***, and all > > > taskbar/resident processes killed. > > Could you provide those scripts? > > Tara > > -- > > http://users4.ev1.net/~taragem/yager.htm [address restored]

Yep, works fine on all. Enditall2 is ok but a bit more complicated interface. Tim "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:S2thd.349351$[email hidden]...

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> Yer sure? Site sez it's for Win 98 & NT, not ME nor XP. > > "Tanstaafl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ULshd.85161$[email hidden]... >> Here is a link to the freeware EnditAll program that accomplishes what >> you're looking for. There is a later EnditAll2 program, but you have to >> subscibe to the PC Magazine web site to get it. I've used both in XP and >> they work fine. >> >> http://www.the-old-sea-dog.net/enditall.html >> >> >> "Tara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >> > Alan C. Daly wrote: >> > >> > > My Windows XP set-up is ultra-trimmed, I have a pair of scripts that >> > > start/stop all unnecessary services for when gaming, and all >> > > taskbar/resident processes killed. >> > >> > Could you provide those scripts? >> > >> > Tara >> > -- >> > http://users4.ev1.net/~taragem/yager.htm >> >> > >

Been using a couple of years with no problem. "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:S2thd.349351$[email hidden]...

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> Yer sure? Site sez it's for Win 98 & NT, not ME nor XP. > > "Tanstaafl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ULshd.85161$[email hidden]... > > Here is a link to the freeware EnditAll program that accomplishes what > > you're looking for. There is a later EnditAll2 program, but you have to > > subscibe to the PC Magazine web site to get it. I've used both in XP

and

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> > they work fine. > > > > http://www.the-old-sea-dog.net/enditall.html > > > > > > "Tara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Alan C. Daly wrote: > > > > > > > My Windows XP set-up is ultra-trimmed, I have a pair of scripts that > > > > start/stop all unnecessary services for when gaming, and all > > > > taskbar/resident processes killed. > > > > > > Could you provide those scripts? > > > > > > Tara > > > -- > > > http://users4.ev1.net/~taragem/yager.htm > > > > > >