KnightRider---how does he do it?

well, you know how in KnightRider, Kitt2000 could always drive in and back out of that 18-wheeler? is this possible? i mean possible without distroying the car? what happens to each wheel? suppose the car is driving forward at 61MPH and approaches the truck ramp when the truck is going 60MPH. assume the car has front wheel drive. what happens? theoretically, Kit would suddenly be racing into the back of the truck at 61MPH, but surely this won't happen... right? now the second problem seems even more, uhh, disturbing. you have this car backing out at, say, 1MPH, and its back wheels hit the pavement. suddenly, the back and front wheels are going in opposite directions. and then what happens to the front wheel when it hits the pavement, and can i shift it into gear without destroying my awesome sports car?! i'm serious. should i attempt this stunt? brian

Not if your test vehicle is AWD. I mean, I suppose you could try it *once*, but you could kiss your center diff goodbye. Jeff -- Jeffrey S. Curtis | Internetwork Manager 9700 South Cass Avenue, ECT-221 | Voice: 708/252-1789 Argonne, IL 60439 | Fax: 708/252-9689

I've often wondered about this myself, and my best guess involves a skilled driver putting in the clutch at the right moment and then shifting into the appropriate gear for the new reference frame. Sure you would beat up the tires after a while, but I'm sure they can afford it and airplane tires go through this stress routinely. Carl Carter-Schwendler

My bigest question is how he can drive with that yoke for a wheel?

I'll pose an even more interesting question - what exactly does this have to do with rec.autos.*simulators*?? Absolutely nothing, as far as I can tell. -Spam Patrol -- | '76 Moto Guzzi LeMans I . ||||||||||||||||||||||||| | . . . . . . .,___/--/|) Brad W Traweek | | \ \ \ \ \ \ \_/`~---'\_/ |||||||||||||||||||||||||

: : well, you know how in KnightRider, Kitt2000 could always drive in and : : back out of that 18-wheeler? is this possible? i mean possible : : without distroying the car? what happens to each wheel? suppose the : : car is driving forward at 61MPH and approaches the truck ramp when the : : truck is going 60MPH. assume the car has front wheel drive. what : : happens? theoretically, Kit would suddenly be racing into the back of : : the truck at 61MPH, but surely this won't happen... right? : I would guess that wheel travelling 60 MPH suddenly hitting a surface : with a reference speed of 0 or 1 MPH would merely squeel until they : gain proper traction, which gives the driver more than enough time : to clutch and shift. What I've heard in past threads of this sort is as follows. KITT, at 65 MPH, approaches the trailer moving at 60 MPH. When KITT gets really close to the ramp, just shift into neutral. The 5 MPH speed difference will probably be sufficient for KITT to coast about half way up the ramp. At this point, I've heard rumors that the trailer then applies its breaks and slows to 55 MPH, and KITT's momentum carries him the rest of the way up the ramp. More likely, since KITT is already half way up the ramp when his speed equals that of the trailer, (and the drive wheels are hopefully off the ground), the driver simply puts it in first gear and drives on in. : : now the second problem seems even more, uhh, disturbing. you have this : : car backing out at, say, 1MPH, and its back wheels hit the pavement. : : suddenly, the back and front wheels are going in opposite directions. : : and then what happens to the front wheel when it hits the pavement, and : : can i shift it into gear without destroying my awesome sports car?! : I seem to recall the whole thing with coming out of the back of the : truck was just film of driving into the truck played backwards. I haven't : seen Knight Rider in a long time, but I recall that if you look real : close, the front shocks compress unnaturally right before the car : leaves the ramp, something that would only happen if the car was : running forward into the ramp. This one's even easier. Put KITT in reverse just to get moving (1 or 2 MPH relative to the trailer), then shift into neutral. Leave it in neutral until all four wheels are on the pavement and turning at the proper speed. Then put it in gear and fly past the trailer. As far as tire torture is concerned, the squeal you here when the trick is performed does eat some ***, but airplane wheels go from 0 to ~200 during a landing, and they survive. I still doubt that they got more than 5000 miles out of a single set of tires as many burnouts as they did with that car. I would be careful about trying the trailer trick in an AWD car. Having 60 MPH of difference between the speeds of the front and rear driveshafts can do some interesting things to the transfer case/center differential. My truck (a '78 GMC Suburban w/ a NP203 transfer case) had full-time 4wd with a center differential in the transfer case similar to what one would find on an AWD sportscar. When the front wheel bearings died, they sent a non-flatbed tow truck. They lifted the front wheels off the ground, and put the *** in neutral. The rear wheels turned at up to 65 MPH on the way to the local 4wd shop, and the front wheels never turned. Since it was a short trip (<10 mi), the transfer case fluid never got hot enough to damage anything. This did not, however, involve any *sudden* acceleration from 0 to 60, just what the diesel tow truck could manage. Also, this is a gear-driven transfer case designed to handle the input torque of a 454 with a TH-400 and 3/4 ton drive axles. A 3000GT VR4 might not be quite as durable. Disclaimer: Don't do anything stupid. If you do, don't blame it on my. See ya' Mark Whitmer P.S. - Most of the above is my hypothesis, and is subject to inaccuracies without notice or obligation. Presently, I still think I'm right. :-)

Brian, you obviously have the soul of a theorist. The answer to your underlying question ("Can it be done?") is clearly YES; barring special effects work, you have a couple of seasons worth of shows prominently showing the stunt performed. C'mon! Nothing like an experiment to get to the heart of the matter! Feeble attempts at explaining what's going on supplied on request (I am an experimentalist, after all). But my talents and experience would be much, *much* better served if someone (Brian?) would give me a hot sports car and a trailer to get a more definite answer <grin>. - Marc D. Peters

Backing the car out of a moving truck is a no-brainer. Get it rolling down the ramp, put it in neutral, once the back tires hit the street put it in the proper gear (or let it roll in neutral a little more). Going up the ramp would be trickier. But if the truck is going 60 mph, and I'm doing 60 right behind it with my front tires on the ramp and the rears about 6" from the lower lip, a quick stomp of the pedal followed by a quick shift into neutral then, say 1st, would work fine. After the acceleration gets you completely on to the ramp, 1st gets you up the ramp. Now, all I need is a big black 18 wheeler.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Aupperlee "a tiny little dot caught my eye... *These statements are mine* i watched it way too long and that dot was pulling me down" - down in it, NIN ------------------------------------------------------------------------

-> well, you know how in KnightRider, Kitt2000 could always drive in and -> back out of that 18-wheeler? is this possible? i mean possible -> without distroying the car? what happens to each wheel? suppose the -> car is driving forward at 61MPH and approaches the truck ramp when -> the -> truck is going 60MPH. assume the car has front wheel drive. what -> happens? theoretically, Kit would suddenly be racing into the back o -> the truck at 61MPH, but surely this won't happen... right? -> -> now the second problem seems even more, uhh, disturbing. you have th -> car backing out at, say, 1MPH, and its back wheels hit the pavement. -> suddenly, the back and front wheels are going in opposite directions. -> and then what happens to the front wheel when it hits the pavement, a -> can i shift it into gear without destroying my awesome sports car?! -> -> i'm serious. should i attempt this stunt? I wouldn't. The front wheel drive thing is off though (Kitt was a Firebird, I don't care what anybody says), and Firebirds are rear-wheel drive. But that doesn't explain backing out of the rig. Maybe he shifted in neutral to back out. If we look at this like a car on a tow-truck, maybe it can be solved.

-> Subject: Re: KnightRider---how does he do it? -> -> I've often wondered about this myself, and my best guess involves a -> skilled driver putting in the clutch at the right moment and then -> shifting into the appropriate gear for the new reference frame. -> Sure you would beat up the tires after a while, but I'm sure they can -> afford it and airplane tires go through this stress routinely. -> -> Carl Carter-Schwendler Maybe he would use the clutch, if the car was a stick shift! Besides, a car doing 60 in 5th gear won't like going to 1st or 2nd very much. Try it going down the interstate.

-> -> well, you know how in KnightRider, Kitt2000 could always drive in -> -> back out of that 18-wheeler? is this possible? i mean possible -> -> without distroying the car? what happens to each wheel? suppose -> -> car is driving forward at 61MPH and approaches the truck ramp when -> -> the -> -> truck is going 60MPH. assume the car has front wheel drive. what -> -> happens? theoretically, Kit would suddenly be racing into the bac -> -> the truck at 61MPH, but surely this won't happen... right? -> -> -> -> now the second problem seems even more, uhh, disturbing. you have -> -> car backing out at, say, 1MPH, and its back wheels hit the pavemen -> -> suddenly, the back and front wheels are going in opposite directio -> -> and then what happens to the front wheel when it hits the pavement -> -> can i shift it into gear without destroying my awesome sports car? -> -> -> -> i'm serious. should i attempt this stunt? -> -> I wouldn't. The front wheel drive thing is off though (Kitt was a -> Firebird, I don't care what anybody says), and Firebirds are -> rear-wheel drive. But that doesn't explain backing out of the rig. -> Maybe he shifted in neutral to back out. If we look at this like a -> car on a tow-truck, maybe it can be solved.

-> Subject: Re: KnightRider---how does he do it? -> -> My bigest question is how he can drive with that yoke for a wheel? I think having that yoke as a wheel would be neat!

Well, if you were still in gear the tyres would smoke on the ramp, and you would have a certain time to adjust while the drive wheels were still spinning. Actually, they do it by approaching at a higher relative speed than 1 mph, let the clutch out and coast the front wheels onto the ramp, then just drive up it. That's assuming front-wheel drive. Rear-wheel drive is harder. Put the front wheels on the ramp, match speed with the truck, then use a burst of acceleration, letting the clutch out just before the back wheels hit the ramp, then change to first gear (quickly) and start again. You will get big problems if you don't do it right. It's a bit like landing an aeroplane, but not so bad. There's a slight squeal from the tyres as they hit the road. Once you're rolling, engage the correct gear and there you are. I'm serious too. Don't try it. It *is* dangerous. I know several people who have got hurt doing car stunts. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Tel & Fax: -- +44 (114) 233 2071 Tel: -- +44 (114) 285 2727 Programming, Documentation, Consultancy -- Windows, SDK, MFC, C++ etc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you think they just back it off the truck and then play it backwards to make it look like he is driving up? I know backing off would be a no brainer, but what about when your fron tires spinning at 60 meet the stationary ramp....hmmm. Cheater

>I seem to recall the whole thing with coming out of the back of the >truck was just film of driving into the truck played backwards... Then the background scenery would be going backwards. ____________________________________________________________________________ PictureTel Corp. Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of Andover, MA PictureTel Corp. (so there!)

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>>well, you know how in KnightRider, Kitt2000 could always drive in and >>back out of that 18-wheeler? is this possible? i mean possible >>without distroying the car? what happens to each wheel? >I'll pose an even more interesting question - what exactly does this >have to do with rec.autos.*simulators*?? Absolutely nothing, as far >as I can tell.

Well, I guess he wants to *simulate* the stunt!!! Cheers Paul Live Long and Prosper

Guys it is simple. Going up the ramp: The car drives up towards the ramp at a steady speed slightly faster than that of the truck. When the car is close a small dab on the accelerator pushes the car up the ramp. Then a quick gear change is needed (probably 2nd - the situation dictates the gear) before driving into the back of the truck. Going down the ramp: The car is backed out down the ramp. When it is fully on the ramp the clutch is depressed and the car rolls down the ramp onto the tarmac. You don't need to worry about speed or anything until you are off the ramp as the truck will now be going faster than you. Then a gear is selected relative to the speed of travel and away you go. The tricky bit is pulling a U-turn when you are out of the truck to drive off in the opposite direction. Hope this helps Paul Live Long and Prosper

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|> well, you know how in KnightRider, Kitt2000 could always drive in and |> back out of that 18-wheeler? is this possible? i mean possible |> without distroying the car? what happens to each wheel? suppose the |> car is driving forward at 61MPH and approaches the truck ramp when the |> truck is going 60MPH. assume the car has front wheel drive. what |> happens? theoretically, Kit would suddenly be racing into the back of |> the truck at 61MPH, but surely this won't happen... right? |> |> now the second problem seems even more, uhh, disturbing. you have this |> car backing out at, say, 1MPH, and its back wheels hit the pavement. |> suddenly, the back and front wheels are going in opposite directions. |> and then what happens to the front wheel when it hits the pavement, and |> can i shift it into gear without destroying my awesome sports car?! |> |> i'm serious. should i attempt this stunt? |> |> brian

If you drove into the back of a truck at 61MPH you would probably go straight through the front. As for leaving the truck it would probably be OK as long as the car was only two-wheel drive and one set of wheels did not break when it hit the road at the end of the ramp. -CHRIS- -THE FUTURE IS UNCERTAIN DO NOT DESTROY IT-

yeh.....don't try backing off a truck moving at 60mph in a jeep or other 4 wheel drive engaged (in reverse)....

: Guys it is simple. AT LAST someone that recognises that this 'stunt' is no big deal. If any of you have seen 'The Italian Job' you would have seen them putting THREE minis (front wheel drives) into ONE truck! (the last one is a tight fit) Dommo

Dan Harling sent zipping through ***space: : >I seem to recall the whole thing with coming out of the back of the : >truck was just film of driving into the truck played backwards... : Then the background scenery would be going backwards. Right. If I had to try it I'd back the car out onto the ramps, put it in neutral and use the front brakes only (via a line lock) to slowly back off the ramps. I'd imagine a manual *** would make this easier too. Just guessin' -- Dave Barkley - Product ENG. Xcel Controls, Incorporated M & D Motorsports South Bend/Mishawaka, Indiana --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It's my last form of sanctuary, behind my blacked out glass." - S. Hagar

Here's my 2 cents worth: Backing out is easy - as all seem to agree. But both going in and going out can be done exactly the same way. The car is in neutral without the motor running. There is an invisible (using the right colour and some touching up of the film) toe line to the car. The car is drawn up or lowered down the ramp using the toe line. There was an old 60's movie called The Italian Job (starring Michael Cain) in which three minis were loaded into a moving bus in the same manner. Dave

One way to fix your truck so that you can do this is as follows: make the ramp so that the wheels just slip on it and do not apply motive force. If you stop applying power to the car's wheels before going into the truck, the wheels will just slip on the track, and the car will slide into the truck because of its inertia. The rotation of the wheels becomes irrelevant. For instance, make a ramp out of small cylinders with axes parallel to the axis of the car's wheels. The cylinders rotate freely and so the wheels just slip without propelling the car forward relative to the truck. The only thing that is relevant is the forward momentum of the car relative to the truck, which is very small and easily got rid of by friction or by having some kind of padding for the moving car to bump into inside the truck. As far as I can imagine this would work for any kind of car (even four-wheeled drive ones). -- address: 1-1 Oho, Tsukuba, Ibaraki 305, JAPAN / TEL: 0298-64-5403 / [in Japanese]: ?