Controls for ICR?

Hello. I've just bought a joystick, and what a difference it made in driving the ovals! I'd also hoped for significant performance gains in the road courses, but have not found the right key combinations for the various controls. Which keys have you found to work good for the gas, brake, shift up, shift down? Thanks. -- _____________________ Kevin Lee '90 Civic Hatchback '94 Civic Coupe Rather have a GSR..

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>Hello. >I've just bought a joystick, and what a difference it made in driving the >ovals! I'd also hoped for significant performance gains in the road >courses, but have not found the right key combinations for the various >controls. >Which keys have you found to work good for the gas, brake, shift up, shift >down?

On a 'stick I use: gas -> push fwd on the stick brake -> pull back on stick shift up -> right button shift down -> left button -- Brian Wong Product Marketing Engineering

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| | On a 'stick I use: | gas -> push fwd on the stick | brake -> pull back on stick | shift up -> right button | shift down -> left button | -- | | Brian Wong Product Marketing Engineering

So Brian, do you really see an advantage having the gas as an analog input? I figure your either flooring it or your off of it, when racing. I have mine setup with shifts on the stick and the gas and brake on the buttons. I thought about swapping them like you have them but there are two things that bother me about that. First, the forward angle of the joystick will effect my steering, and second, you could not power brake (gas and brake at the same time). I think I could overcome the first one with practice, but the no power braking is a big disadvantage to me. Maybe this could be overcome by the advantage of the analog gas and brake. What advantages do you see? How often are you braking or throttling below the maximum, and where typically to you not fully brake or gas at a track? I know sometimes I do 180's taking a slow pin-hole turn because I get on the gas too quick, and maybe being capable of giving partial throttle will help, but by how much? I would be interested in hearing other peoples views also. Gary Cousins

I also use the buttons to brake/accelerate an use a "pulsing" method to get the power on without wheel spin. However, whilst at design school, a friend and I built a 1:1 scale formula 1***pit and wired it through the joystick port to a wheel, sequential shift and spring loaded pedal on anolog potentiometers.<sp?> If its set up right with correctly matched resistances, it give you possible the most accurate method of controling indycar we've found. On the first lap with our system we took 2 second off of our best time around Australia. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

>| >| On a 'stick I use: >| gas -> push fwd on the stick >| brake -> pull back on stick >| shift up -> right button >| shift down -> left button First, I want to make it clear that I don't race most of the time on a 'stick. I use a wheel, partly because I like the "atmosphere" (I FEEL like I'm driving, not flying) and partly for control reasons. I definitely do. I can feather the throttle while I drift through a turn, keeping some gas on to maintain or slightly increase speed while not jumping on the gas and losing traction or going into a wall. I do this, for example, in T8 at Detroit and T5 at Toronto. T8 is the sweeping right-hander after the long "straight" section called the Strand. it's between concrete walls and you CANNOT go full speed through there, but it's a long turn, and you need to maintain some speed. I'm sure you COULD do it with a binary throttle, but it's a lot easier and more intuitive with an analog control. There are other turns where you can build your setup to sail closer to the wind and then lift a little bit in the middle of one or two turns so you don't leave the track. T2 at Detroit is a good example. If your setup is very conservative, you can just put the hammer down and power through. You'll never even brush the wall. You'll also find that if you have enough downforce to do that, you won't beat 135mph down the Strand and everybody blows by you there. If you split the difference and have enough wing to get through T2 if you lift, you can also get down the Strand at 145, and nobody will pass you there unless they're running an even lower downforce setup. Again, I'm sure I could do it with a binary throttle, but why? (Your comment about braking affecting steering is a valid one though.) It's a bit more subtle than this, IMHO. -- Brian Wong Product Marketing Engineering

Brian two things: 1. I use the buttons for braking and accelerating and when I tried it your way I was all over the place. I have to agree with the guy who suggested pulsing, I definitely like this method better. And it does work, for me at least, in T8 at Detroit or at least I can gain ground on comp. cars there. 2. Your reference to Detroit is incorrect in the Strand speed. My setup can get me through T2 without lifting and down Strand at 146mph. The key here is balance, T2 doesn't require as much downforce as u think just a well balanced car. BTW my setup is stiff with the sway bars and most would consider it extremely loose, but I can drive it and it is fast. So try balancing your car out more. Oh well, tell me if any of this helps either of the two people who were questioning about controls and Brian for setting up Detroit. See ya.

>Brian two things: 1. I use the buttons for braking and accelerating and >when I tried it your way I was all over the place. I have to agree with >the guy who suggested pulsing, I definitely like this method better. >And it does work, for me at least, in T8 at Detroit or at least I can >gain ground on comp. cars there. Well, it's a matter of taste and practice, I guess. Remember, I use a wheel/pedeal and I don't think anyone would argue that analog pedals aren't a good idea. Actually I tried to remember the numbers from memory. Even given the fact that Detroit can be set up differently (I *can* go full bore through T2 and I run the strand at around 154, I checked now), the fact remains that there is some place on the scale where feathering the throttle is a good idea. Still if nobody else wants to do it, that's fine with me... Maybe I'll work some more on Elkhart Lake. It's a lot harder to balance out the car there. -- Brian Wong Product Marketing Engineering

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| >So Brian, do you really see an advantage having the gas as an analog input? | | I definitely do. I can feather the throttle while I drift through a turn, | keeping some gas on to maintain or slightly increase speed while not jumping | on the gas and losing traction or going into a wall. I do this, for example, | in T8 at Detroit and T5 at Toronto. T8 is the sweeping right-hander after | the long "straight" section called the Strand. it's between concrete walls | and you CANNOT go full speed through there, but it's a long turn, and you | need to maintain some speed. I'm sure you COULD do it with a binary throttle, | but it's a lot easier and more intuitive with an analog control. | | There are other turns where you can build your setup to sail closer to the | wind and then lift a little bit in the middle of one or two turns so you don't | leave the track. T2 at Detroit is a good example. If your setup is very | conservative, you can just put the hammer down and power through. You'll | never even brush the wall. You'll also find that if you have enough downforce | to do that, you won't beat 135mph down the Strand and everybody blows by you | there. If you split the difference and have enough wing to get through T2 | if you lift, you can also get down the Strand at 145, and nobody will pass | you there unless they're running an even lower downforce setup. Again, I'm | sure I could do it with a binary throttle, but why? (Your comment about | braking affecting steering is a valid one though.) |

You really got me thinking about that T8 at Detroit. I really think that is my worst turn on the track. I usually go through there at about 80MPH, but I know it can be done faster. I will give the pulsing a try that was suggested earlier. Then maybe I will do some testing with your joystick configuration, if the pulsing does not improve my speed through the turn. As a side note, my T2 at Detroit is taken flat out and I am getting up to 152MPH down the strand (I saw from other follow-ups, that you knew that it could be done). But, you do have me convinced that an analog throttle can improve some cornering times (mainly because you named one of my worst corners, amazing). Do I want to reconfigure my joystick for it? Probably not, but I will experiment. I may even think about buying a wheel. Gary Cousins

>So Brian, do you really see an advantage having the gas as an analog input? >I figure your either flooring it or your off of it, when racing. I have Going to an analog gas control has improved my times significantly, both on ovals and road courses. The effect on the steering isn't so bad. I don't use joystick-down as the brake, I use a button. --