3D-Bench VGA benchmarking...

I'd appreciate it if a few people here would ftp the file 3dbench.zip (it's only 60K), located in the directory pub/sabata/www/files, at ftp.webcom.com. There's been a lot of discussion on the flight-sim group about the results this program provides, and I'd like to see a bit of discussion about that here too. I'm getting only 58.8 fps with my P-90, and according to what I'm reading in the flight-sim group, that number is far short of what I should be getting, so I'd like to see some discussion here as to what can be done to improve the results. My brother and I both have Quantex P-90's, and yet I can tell that VGA NASCAR is just slightly smoother on his machine. And running 3D-bench confirms that he is getting a figure much higher than mine. What fps are other folks getting? What have you 'tweaked' to improve that figure? etc., etc... Try running it after booting your system 'dry'. Thanks, -Brad ***************************************************************** * *****************************************************************

First off, the video card is THE most important factor in going fast as far as frame rate is concerned. Yes, CPU speed helps, but video is most important. One thing you could try is to take the video card from your brothers computer and put it in yours and see what happens. Secondly, just cause you have a P90 doesn't mean you go fast automatically. There are 486/100s that can go faster than P66s. It's all in the hardware.

>First off, the video card is THE most important factor in going fast as >far as frame rate is concerned. Yes, CPU speed helps, but video is most >important. This isn't necessarily true when it comes to Papyrus sims. A friend and I had similar machines (486/66s), but he had VLB video while I plodded along with chunky ol' ISA video. ICR ran much faster on my machine. It appeared that memory speed was the determining factor for the differences in speed and detail that either of us could display. A good idea. Benchmark witha couple of programs/games before and after. Tphphphpht!!!!!! :> (P-90 owner here). I'm curious what framerate 486/100 users are getting in NASCAR (and what options). Is there a way to get the framerate in NASCAR? --- Gavin

D'oh - I forgot to mention what video card I had - it's a Paradise PCI w/ 1 meg. VRAM. I'm pretty much a 'newbie' when it comes to upgrading hardware, and I know pretty much nothing about video cards. I have heard that the Paradise is a bit slow, but could it be *that* slow? I'll upgrade it if it is.... problem is that I need something that is (a) fast in DOS, and (b) supported by Linux/X-Windows. Suggestions? Great idea, except that my brother doesn't live in the same time zone I do. :-) Some of the stores around here have a "try-before-you-buy" type policy, where you can return stuff if it doesn't do what you wanted it to... so I may have to take advantage of that and begin the search for a better video card. -- ***************************************************************** *****************************************************************

The problem is that my BIOS setup utility doesn't seem to provide much room for 'tweaking'. There aren't any options I can see that have anything to do with "memory waits". Then again, I'm new to this sort of thing and really don't know what I'm doing! I've changed all the options available, (writing down the old values so I could set them back of course), and all I've succeeded in doing is making it even slower than it was before! :-) -- ***************************************************************** * *****************************************************************

Hi Brad: You were asking about 3d Bench results for various configurations: I am running a P-90 on an Intel Premiere II/PCI M'Board, 16 MB RAM, Diamond Stealth 64 PCI Video with 2 MB DRAM, and my 3d Bench score is 83.3. This was achieved both using a boot disk and using my normal autoexec.bat and config.sys files with all drivers loaded (no difference noted). I haven't done any special tweaking or tuning to improve the frame rate (at least nothing I've done has any noticeable effect). I run NASCAR in SVGA with 38 opponents, car graphics on, paint/skidmarks on, low level objects on, horizon on (on the larger tracks anyway; on the short tracks horizon seems to slow down the frame rate), smoke auto, crowds off, wall texture off, track/grass texture off, FM sound and performance is smooth as can be (except perhaps when I'm behind heavy traffic at the beginning of a race or right after a caution period). Ian McIlroy Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

My 486dx2-66 with ET4000/w32p VLB graphics card gives 50.0. When I got the computer, it reached something around 40, but after tweaking the BIOS setups, I got it that high. With a slow Trident 9000 graphics card on the same machine I only got 28 fps. Try to tweak your BIOS setup. Try to tune memory waits as low as possible and make sure the system still works OK. You can safely try all settings and test after each change if it affects system speed (you should try some other benchmarks as well). Just make sure you can return the original values, if the system no longer works. If this does not yield satisfactory results, you may either have a motherboard with too slow memory handling (not likely I think) or a slow graphics card. If you need only DOS performance, I would recommend ET4000 based card. Samppa -- | Samuli Takala |E-Mail: | WWW: http://www.jyu.fi/~tamasa/ |

writes: >>First off, the video card is THE most important factor in going fast as >>far as frame rate is concerned. Yes, CPU speed helps, but video is most >>important. Well, that's not true. The most important factor is the CPU. Obviously Papyrus didn't make a frame for each and every point on the track. If they did, then the video card would be the greatest factor because all the CPU would have to do is retrieve the picture (unless it was using complex compression). But the actual situation is, is that Nascar installs the components of a frame, and it is the CPU's job to put it together and render it to your position on the track. Your video card isn't doing this work, it is merely displaying it on the screen. The video card does become a factor when you're running in SVGA mode because then the video card has to do a lot more work to display the frame.

Agreed, the video card is critical, but not the only deciding factor. As far as determining the frame rate, the only way I know is by setting the min and max frame rates, start a race and see what dissapears. I run SVGA with all graphics on and MIN frame rate of 14 and never lose any of the detail( stands, grass horizon, etc.). I am running a DCA based 486DX4/100 with 16 meg of 15ns cache memory and a Stealth 64 VLB.

I have got an ISA et4000 and i got a framerate of 21 with 3d bench. I changed the speed of the ISA bus to 6mhz instead of 4mhz (or was it 8mhz, i'm not really sure) but that helped a little. I don't know if you could do this with a PCI bus, but you can always try. Nikki

Brad, thank you for pointing out the Benchmark program. I FTP'd it and ran it on my system. 486 DxII 66 8 meg ram Trident video card with 1 meg (cheapo) After all the gears stopped turning, It spit out a benchmark or 37. Its something I need to improve upon. Thanks..... ______________________________________________________________________________ "It's good enough for government work"

On my 486DX266 with 8meg ram and Hercules Dynamite (1 meg. ET4000 W32) I get a 3dBench score of 43.4 after some tweaking. Bolko R. -- Bolko Rawicz | "I build them to go, not to stop." - Ettore Bugatti replies at Simon | to criticism of brakes in Bugatti cars. "if you can afford Fraser Univ. | a Type 55 Bugatti, surely you can afford a heated garage!" in CANADA | - Ettore Bugatti on starting problems in cold weather.

Uh, I've got the same configuration but only 4MB and 3 I got a rating of 48.0 frames per second. What bus system you're using (My is VLB)? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (under construction http://www.uni-giessen.de/~gcg4) Code v2.1: GM d H s:->s g+(?) p?(1) au- a20 w(++) v(+) C+(++) UA>++ P? D(-) B? e+(*) u+ h! f(+) r- n+ y? Fnord. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> On my 486DX266 with 8meg ram and Hercules Dynamite (1 meg. ET4000 W32) >> I get a 3dBench score of 43.4 after some tweaking. >Uh, I've got the same configuration but only 4MB and 3 I got a rating of >48.0 frames per second. What bus system you're using (My is VLB)? Mine is also VLB but I have a wait-state set for DRAM because it appears to be slow (80ns I think). -- Bolko Rawicz | "I build them to go, not to stop." - Ettore Bugatti replies at Simon | to criticism of brakes in Bugatti cars. "if you can afford Fraser Univ. | a Type 55 Bugatti, surely you can afford a heated garage!" in CANADA | - Ettore Bugatti on starting problems in cold weather.

>On my 486DX266 with 8meg ram and Hercules Dynamite (1 meg. ET4000 W32) >I get a 3dBench score of 43.4 after some tweaking. What are you tweaking? I just got a 486DX4/100 with 8 meg, a 2 meg Hercules Dynamite VLB card and I can only limp along at 34 fps. This is just slightly better than the 486DX/40 8 meg, 1 meg ISA board it replaced. Aaaaaargghhh!!! It uses an AMI BIOS if that matters any. Terrill

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>>On my 486DX266 with 8meg ram and Hercules Dynamite (1 meg. ET4000 W32) >>I get a 3dBench score of 43.4 after some tweaking. >What are you tweaking? I just got a 486DX4/100 with 8 meg, a 2 meg >Hercules Dynamite VLB card and I can only limp along at 34 fps. >This is just slightly better than the 486DX/40 8 meg, 1 meg ISA board >it replaced. Aaaaaargghhh!!! >It uses an AMI BIOS if that matters any.

My 486dx2-66 (AMD) with 8mb ram and ET4000/w32p VLB reaches 50.0. You should try every BIOS setting that has something to do with wait states and maybe others too. Just make sure you can return the original values. I don't think you can break or damage anything by trying out every possible setting, but I won't take any responsibility, so do it at your own risk, cause I don't know about all the different mother boards out there. Samppa -- | Samuli Takala |E-Mail: | WWW: http://www.jyu.fi/~tamasa/ | | FINLAND | | strange, is false" - Neil Gaiman |

> >On my 486DX266 with 8meg ram and Hercules Dynamite (1 meg. ET4000 W32) > >I get a 3dBench score of 43.4 after some tweaking. > What are you tweaking? I just got a 486DX4/100 with 8 meg, a 2 meg > Hercules Dynamite VLB card and I can only limp along at 34 fps. That's weird. I have a 486DX2/66 with 16 meg, a 2 meg Diam. Stealth32 VLB card (also et4000/w32) and I get 50.0 fps. I think your system should be capable of like 60+ fps. Should double check everything is configured properly. I have AMI too... I think 1994. **************************************************************** Hartsdale, NY "BsOiRgInNaGture" Cloud 9 Internet ****************************************************************