IndyCar(TM) Racing II News

[lot's of blah deleted] And it will require 8megs+ of RAM and a P90+ to run and no f*%$!ng track creator/editor. Guess who they just lost as a customer! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Leading the charge to boycott Papyrus Software. Bryon S. Lape Hodges Library in the department formerly known as "Automation" Proud owner of two songs banned from MTV. Suffering from political correctness deficiency syndrome.

PAPYRUS DESIGN GROUP Booth #1425 SOUTH HALL CONTACT: Ann Marie Gianantoni Papyrus New IndyCar(TM) Racing 2.0 Previewed at E3 Los Angeles, California, May 11, 1995--Papyrus Design Group, Inc. is offering a preview of their new IndyCar Racing 2.0 at the Electronic Entertainment Expo. IndyCar Racing 2.0 is a graphically and audibly enhanced version of Papyrus original award-winning IndyCar Racing, and will be offered for DOS 5.0 or later, Windows 3.1 and Windows 95, and the Macintosh. Officially licensed by IndyCar, IndyCar Racing 2.0 will include 15 tracks, representing every type of IndyCar racing experience. The product will be based on the 1995 racing season which will be represented by cars, tracks, drivers, sponsors, track side scenery, and billboards. Other major improvements that will be included in the new IndyCar Racing 2.0 include: SVGA Mode. Crisp, clear graphic detail in 640 x 480 resolution. Realistic Collisions. Car bodies will dent and pieces will fly form the cars accidents happen. Digital Sound Effects. Engine and crashing effects in digital and stereo sound. Realistic Handling. Like Papyrus other award-winning productions, IndyCar Racing 2.0 sets new standards for realistic handling. The closest possible thing to putting you behind the seat of a real IndyCar. Arcade Driving allows the driver to drive from outside the car in order to master different driving techniques. Multi-player this product will be compatible with Papyrus new multi-player service, code named Hawaii. Product Manual. In depth explanation of the IndyCar Racing 2.0 simulation. Experienced drivers give driving tips; including suggestions on car set-ups. IndyCar Racing 2.0 will be released Q4 of 1995 on CD ROM; the DOS and Windows and versions will be shipped as one product. The software packages will be distributed world-wide by *** Interactive Entertainment, Inc. Papyrus Design Group, Inc., is a software developer and publisher established in 1987. Its flagship simulation, Indianapolis 500: The Simulation, was published by Electronic Arts in 1989. The companys second game, IndyCar Racing was released in November 1993 and has garnered numerous top industry awards. NASCAR Racing is the companys third award winning production. #### Contact: Electronic Entertainment Expo: Ann Marie Gianantoni, Press Relations Booth # 1425, South Hall Pager: 1.800.495.0570 Cellular Phone: 1.714.323.2858 Office: Papyrus Design Group, Inc. Ann Marie Gianantoni, Press Relations 35 Medford St. Somerville, MA 02143 Phone: 617.868.5440 x165 Fax: 617.868.5110 ====================================================== | Ralph M. Hebb | Papyrus Design Group, Inc. | | 617-868-5440 x128 | Somerville, MA 02143 | |----------------------------------------------------| | My opinions belong to me, not to Papyrus. | ======================================================

Just one thing, Ralph : What I *really* missed in Indycar, and also in Nascar (The CD-ROM of Nascar has enough space left) is the voice that says : Gentlemen, start your engines ! Anyway, the announcer setting only sets the voice that says "I'm &%&%&%, welcome to (*&(&", and that's that. Some (optional) "live" commentary would be nice.

Quoted text (20 lines)

>Subject: Re: IndyCar(TM) Racing II News >Date: 10 May 1995 18:49:24 GMT >>PAPYRUS DESIGN GROUP >>Booth #1425 SOUTH HALL >>CONTACT: Ann Marie Gianantoni >>Papyrus New IndyCar(TM) Racing 2.0 Previewed at E3 >[lot's of blah deleted] > And it will require 8megs+ of RAM and a P90+ to run and no >f*%$!ng track creator/editor. Guess who they just lost as a customer! >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >- >Leading the charge to boycott Papyrus Software. >Bryon S. Lape >Hodges Library in the department formerly known as "Automation" >Proud owner of two songs banned from MTV. >Suffering from political correctness deficiency syndrome.

First of all, if you were expecting a "track creator/editor" then you have been sadly misled. I would also be more than happy to suggest you look for another racing sim, because opening the track creation to the public just isn't in the picture, and I don't expect it, and I see no use for it. If anyone wants to create tracks for ICR, go right ahead. The code is no MAJOR trade secret for anybody wanted to hack it, but considering the millions of lines of code necessary to create EACH track, the amount of man-hours involved for each track, it's a surprise Papyrus can release their work ANYWHERE near on schedule with the small staff they have. Papyrus is NOT a large company. It's certainly no Microsoft, and look how long it's taking THEM to come out with the next Windows. Imagine ONE person trying to create his/her own track at home on his/her own machine. It is a LOT more than just drawing the shape of the track and then pushing a button and voila! there's the track. Each track has to go through the same processes, not the least of which calls for going to the actual track and surveying the area or using the blueprints to achieve the accuracy that they do, which STILL is lacking, but astonishing considering what's involved. When you have the track designed, you have to decide the look of the place. Billboards, pit locations, trucks, buildings, leaderboard, grandstands. Then you have to code where the cars can go, how they go, when they go, and how well they react to each other. And then, when you have all that mapped out and the code underway, imagine having to code ALL of the replay camera angles and make them available for every car. And the telemetry information and how that changes during a race. That's just describing what had to go into ICR 1.0x. When you add in all the features that will be going into ICR 2.0, and add in the fact that it will be available in SVGA, with digital sound, and flying car parts, and penalty flags, and and event announcer, and even MORE hours into improving the opponents' A.I., I am really surprised they are announceing a December release. Don't get me wrong, I am happy it is supposed to be ready by December at the latest, but knowing what involved, I'm amazed. A track creator/editor? I can do without that. I just want to get in that car and race. Race on the tracks that are there. You KNOW they're gonna eventually followup with add-on tracks... and if they're releasing ICR 2.0 with 15 tracks, there's gotta be a lot of new tracks coming out after that that none of us have even raced an IndyCar on. I'll be more than happy with a descent replay editor and a nice car paintkit. If they are able to squeeze in local yellows and some flag guys on the track, and perhaps the ability to pull out of the pits when we want to, I'll be in bliss. Ralf ____ __ ___ __ ____ __ _\ \ /(__)\ | ( /(__)\ )( /(__)\ http://www.webcom.com/~sabata/

Quoted text (8 lines)

>Subject: Re: IndyCar(TM) Racing II News >Date: 10 May 1995 22:25:14 GMT >Just one thing, Ralph : What I *really* missed in Indycar, and also in >Nascar (The CD-ROM of Nascar has enough space left) is the voice that >says : Gentlemen, start your engines ! >Anyway, the announcer setting only sets the voice that says "I'm &%&%&%, >welcome to (*&(&", and that's that. Some (optional) "live" commentary >would be nice.

I agree, to an extent. (By The Way... the name is Ralf... that's with an "F", check the post your replied to. I'm not saying that there's no use for the announcer. Quite the contrary, I bug a couple of the programmers on a regular basis to put Jarrett into the game. Of the hours of recordings they have of him, there's stuff like "There's a crash in Turn 4" and "THERE'S a blag flag!" I'd love to hear that stuff in the game, but getting the game up to what it is now took more of a priority. And although "Gentlemen, Start your engines" would be nice, and it might be recorded as well, I don't see it happening soon. Ralf ____ __ ___ __ ____ __ _\ \ /(__)\ | ( /(__)\ )( /(__)\ http://www.webcom.com/~sabata/

>>Papyrus New IndyCar(TM) Racing 2.0 Previewed at E3 [much deleted] Does anyone here know if ICR 2.0 will have modem and user-user local network support. (apart from the commercial venture mentioned above.) I have e-mailed Papyrus seeking amplicfication, but as yet have not received a response. Thanks. Keiron * Compuserve: 100241,714 * * Fidonet: 3:640/301 * from Keiron Rado in Brisbane, Qld, Australia *

So the Mac version I've been waiting for is finally going to come out...8) I understand it will only be available on CD. Is this true? What kind of specs do I need on my machine to run this thing? Chris Carlone http://server.uwindsor.ca:8000/~carlone/

[All of Ralf's BS deleted because nothing is worth quoting] It is just that simple stupid. The hard part is the hand optimization of the 4x4 matrices. Duh! bryon -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Leading the charge to boycott Papyrus Software. Bryon S. Lape Hodges Library in the department formerly known as "Automation" Proud owner of two songs banned from MTV. Suffering from political correctness deficiency syndrome.

Quoted text (9 lines)

> >PAPYRUS DESIGN GROUP > >Booth #1425 SOUTH HALL > >CONTACT: Ann Marie Gianantoni > >Papyrus New IndyCar(TM) Racing 2.0 Previewed at E3 > [lot's of blah deleted] > And it will require 8megs+ of RAM and a P90+ to run and no > f*%$!ng track creator/editor. Guess who they just lost as a customer!

Remember, your boycotting Papyrus. So it shouldn't matter if it ICR2 includes a track editor or not. 8 megs you should have anyways, everything out pretty much needs it to run decently. I'm sure ICR2 will run fine on my 486 with scaled down graphics, until I have enough cash to get a Pentium 100. **************************************************************** Hartsdale, NY "BsOiRgInNaGture" Cloud 9 Internet ****************************************************************

Does anyone here know if ICR 2.0 will have modem and user-user local network support. (apart from the commercial venture mentioned above.) <<< IndyCar Racing 2.0 will have the same two-player support that NASCAR Racing has (direct connect, via modem, and via IPX/Novell server). Rick Genter Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing 2.0 Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

>>Papyrus New IndyCar(TM) Racing 2.0 Previewed at E3 >[lot's of blah deleted] > And it will require 8megs+ of RAM and a P90+ to run and no >f*%$!ng track creator/editor. Guess who they just lost as a customer! That's okay. With a P90 and 16 Meg of RAM, ICR 2.0 is what I've been waiting for. And a track editor? Who has time to edit tracks? It's all I can do at this point to keep up. Besides, I throw my loyalties in with the "it's a sim" group rather than the "it's a game" group. Not that Papyrus is too concerned with losing all of one customer, I would imagine. - Max in CA

>>IndyCar Racing 2.0 will have the same two-player support that NASCAR >>Racing has (direct connect, via modem, and via IPX/Novell server). Many thanks to Rick from Papyrus for providing the above information. Thanks to Papyrus for a splendid game in ICR 1.0 through 1.5, and for the superb 2 player modem and direct link modules. As I understand it, IndyCar 2.0 will NOT provide support for multiplayer (more than 2 player) user-user LANs. This is a feature which I personally desire *more than any other change* to IndyCar. (Novell Netware LAN support) personally, I would pay for a LAN module, as I have the add on track pack and paint kit. Surely in the mid nineties this is a pre-requisite. Being located in the colonies, "Hawaii" doesn't interest me, and even were I fortunate enough to live in the U.S., contributing to an online "cash cow" also fails to induce me to participation. How much will it eventually cost you in online charges...add it up over time and you will get an unpleasant surprise when you think of the new Pentium system you could have bought with the money. Please don't misunderstand. I appreciate that many out there will relish the opportunity to compete online, but I believe the purchaser/user should have a choice, and think an inclusive LAN module would only encourage online participation rather than detract from it. Can I canvass how many other users desire multiplayer (>2 player) LAN support as a major priority for ICR 2.0?? Speak up now and let Papyrus marketing managment know, or forever hold your peace, as it isn't planned for inclusion according to the response I have from Papyrus. Thanks for listening. Keiron * Compuserve: 100241,714 * * Fidonet: 3:640/301 * from Keiron Rado in Brisbane, Qld, Australia *

Hello Race Fans..... I just returned from my yearly jaunt to the Pole day (weekend) at the IMS 500. While waiting for the rain to let up on Saturday I and my co-fanatics ventured over to the fanfest area. In one of the tents, Papyrus and IBM (including OS-2) had a 5 or 6 station indy 500 sims setup for head to head to head etc... racing. Each station looked like a indy monocock, and featured a large monitor in front. The reason I post this is because it looked nothing like Indycar 1.05. It had what appeared to be SVGA graphics, and arcade style views (similar to chase view). I asked the rep on hand if this was a version of the new 2.0 ICR, he mentioned that it was specially written for this setup and event and based on the 1.0x ICR. Not sure if I believe him or not. Graphics looked pretty good and I noticed only a very slight choppyness in them. Did any one else get to see this. We would have had to wait in an hours worth of line to try it. Later.... ______________________________________________________________________________ "It's good enough for government work"

This is even harder than my desire to have an editor. The arcade game VR Racing can have (or so I've heard) up to 32 machines connected and I doubt they use something as slow as Novell. Also, these machines have purpose built chips that make the Pentium look like a dog (ok, it is). In theory, it should be possible on a 10Mbits+ LAN, but it will all depend on how the software is written and how much info must be moved on the wire. bryon ps- see Ralf, I do have a clue. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - What's so wrong with a tax cut anyway. Bryon S. Lape Hodges Library in the department formerly known as "Automation" Proud owner of two songs banned from MTV. Suffering from political correctness deficiency syndrome.

: > And it will require 8megs+ of RAM and a P90+ to run and no : >f*%$!ng track creator/editor. Guess who they just lost as a customer! : That's okay. With a P90 and 16 Meg of RAM, ICR 2.0 is what I've been : waiting for. And a track editor? Who has time to edit tracks? It's : all I can do at this point to keep up. Besides, I throw my loyalties : in with the "it's a sim" group rather than the "it's a game" group. Absolutely, it's a sim, and absolutely, creating tracks is very difficult. However, I think Indycar fans may understand more where those who want some way of defining new tracks are coming from when the Indycar series starts fragmenting (as it appears likely to do in the next couple of years) and different tracks are used in real life, or the cars get too fast and they start changing the circuits. Do you expect Papyrus to keep releasing updates when things change? I don't think they will, any more than Microprose have with F1GP, and the situation now with F1GP is that very few of the tracks are correct any more (either not used at all, or with significant circuit changes). I don't think it's realistic to expect Papyrus or Microprose to release track editors, but I do wish they would release the file formats, like id did for Doom. One of us sad people with no lives will find the necessary 6 months to write a decent editor, I have no doubt!

Yes!!!! Please..!!!! Doesn't the Amiga have its own NewsGroup?

Quoted text (19 lines)

>Subject: Re: IndyCar(TM) Racing II News >Date: 16 May 1995 16:34:14 GMT >>As I understand it, IndyCar 2.0 will NOT provide support for >>multiplayer (more than 2 player) user-user LANs. >>This is a feature which I personally desire *more than any other >>change* to IndyCar. (Novell Netware LAN support) > This is even harder than my desire to have an editor. The >arcade game VR Racing can have (or so I've heard) up to 32 machines >connected and I doubt they use something as slow as Novell. Also, these >machines have purpose built chips that make the Pentium look like a dog >(ok, it is). In theory, it should be possible on a 10Mbits+ LAN, but it >will all depend on how the software is written and how much info must be >moved on the wire. >bryon >ps- see Ralf, I do have a clue.

Bryon, you direct your post at ME and I had nothing to do with the post you referred to. Now if that's not a sign that you need a clue, I don't know what is. Not once did I mentionthe "ARCADE" game VR Racing or even it's sister games, Daytona and Virtua Racing. That's a whole different format and and entirely different chipset involved, dedicated solely to those games. Don't try to confuse the issue by comparing them to PC games. By the way, since you brought up VR Racing AND you don't care about posting continuity, you happen to have a track editor handy for VR Racing? Didn't think so. Ralf ____ __ ___ __ ____ __ _\ \ /(__)\ | ( /(__)\ )( /(__)\ http://www.webcom.com/~sabata/

>I don't think it's realistic to expect Papyrus or Microprose to release >track editors, but I do wish they would release the file formats, like >id did for Doom. I LOVE playing Doom, and even I can tell the difference between a game like Doom and a racing simulator like ICR or WorldCircuit. They are two entirely different crayons in the crayola box. Perhaps the incredibly talented people at iD would be willing to create a Racing Sim that allows users to create tracks, etc. Then again, maybe they are smart people and realize that would be catering to a smaller audience than they'd care to work for. Perhaps someone is already to close to doing so. My hat's off to this person. I suggest s/he check in on this group and put to rest this stupendous request from the hundreds of people wishing to create their own tracks, or edit existing ones. If you're out there, please let us know, so that we can get back to constructive discussions concerning racing sims as opposed to games. Ralf ____ __ ___ __ ____ __ _\ \ /(__)\ | ( /(__)\ )( /(__)\ http://www.webcom.com/~sabata/

Hi All And received the following response:

Quoted text (11 lines)

>>>Subject: Re: IndyCar(TM) Racing II News >>>Date: 16 May 1995 16:34:14 GMT >>>This is even harder than my desire to have an editor. >>>arcade game VR Racing can have (or so I've heard) up to 32 machines >>>connected and I doubt they use something as slow as Novell. Also, these >>>machines have purpose built chips that make the Pentium look like a dog >>>(ok, it is). In theory, it should be possible on a 10Mbits+ LAN, but it >>>will all depend on how the software is written and how much info must be >>>moved on the wire. >>>bryon >>>ps- see Ralf, I do have a clue.

[much deleted] Says it all Ralf. I like to make it clear that I too have absolutely no desire for a track editor which essentially would turn the SIM into an arcade game. From the response I have received so far, it also appears no-one much cares about having LAN support. BTW Byron, (and I welcome further comment or correction here if someone out there better informed can illuminate the technical issues more clearly), if Papyrus can get ICR working well over an analogue phone system, a Novell net of 4 - 8 drivable cars with the rest of the field computer controlled wouldn't exactly present them or 10 Mbps ethernet/twisted pair with a major dilemma, and would be significantly easier to write than creating 'Byronworld' using a "track editor" with all the variables you desire...IMHO. Regards Keiron * Compuserve: 100241,714 * * Fidonet: 3:640/301 * from Keiron Rado in Brisbane, Qld, Australia *

Quoted text (10 lines)

> I'd like to remove all the chicanes from Monza and restore the 2nd > Lesmo turn to its pre-1994 status. This will bring me back to the > original 50s track. Then I'd like to restore the Indy-like ring so I > can get the 10Kms track they run on a couple of times (By the way, it > was something like this > of the reality (no injuries). So, why couln't I be allowed to better > the reality to a further degree by creating new tracks for my > personal use (I won't force you to run on them...) and for the people > who'll like them? > Paolo Montrasio

I believe that there are some valid uses for a track editor and you pointed out some. However, this thread was started by an idiot who suggested that we boycott Papyrus because THEY did not wish to make a track editor ala' Doom! I suspect that he wanted to do a figure 8 track and play smash 'em up and port it to Sega or his Amiga

Quoted text (10 lines)

>Subject: Re: Track Editing (was IndyCar(TM) Racing II News) >Date: 19 May 1995 01:03:58 GMT >>I LOVE playing Doom, and even I can tell the difference between a game >>like >>Doom and a racing simulator like ICR or WorldCircuit. They are two >>entirely >>different crayons in the crayola box. > No kidding Ralph. Duh. Why do you think you are the smartest >person on the planet?

And YOU wonder why I spell your name Byron, when you still can't spell my name. You pay such close attention to detail. Ralf ____ __ ___ __ ____ __ _\ \ /(__)\ | ( /(__)\ )( /(__)\ http://www.webcom.com/~sabata/

[referring to someone wishing to write a track editor] It seems to me that you think that: 1) if you have ICR-like program and you can only run on real tracks, then this is a racing simulator, 2) if you can use the same program to run on non-real tracks, then it becomes a game (should I say: it downgrades to game?) I'd like to remove all the chicanes from Monza and restore the 2nd Lesmo turn to its pre-1994 status. This will bring me back to the original 50s track. Then I'd like to restore the Indy-like ring so I can get the 10Kms track they run on a couple of times (By the way, it was something like this ----. / | \ | \ | \ \ ___________________ | /\ --_ | | `-----------------_ \ | | ` | | \ | | \ -__________________-' _/ `__________________________-- So, is this a legitimate simulation use of a car racing program or it is just console stuff? And, believe me, ICR, NASCAR and F1GP *are* just games. They will become simulations the day you'll get hurt crashing on a wall. Until then, they are just programs attempting to give you the feeling of driving a racing car and to do that they have to better some aspects of the reality (no injuries). So, why couln't I be allowed to better the reality to a further degree by creating new tracks for my personal use (I won't force you to run on them...) and for the people who'll like them? Paolo Montrasio -- WWW: http://www.physics.sunysb.edu/~montra/ ETNOTEAM S.p.A. Tel: +39-2-26126-207/276 via A. Cairoli Bono 34 Fax: +39-2-26110755 I-20127 Milano, Italy

No kidding Ralph. Duh. Why do you think you are the smartest person on the planet? It is both a game and sim. bsl -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - If I were but what I was, I would not be anything but what I were. Bryon S. Lape Hodges Library in the department formerly known as "Automation" Proud owner of two songs banned from MTV. Suffering from political correctness deficiency syndrome.

Quoted text (10 lines)

>Subject: Re: Track Editing (was IndyCar(TM) Racing II News) >Date: 19 May 1995 01:03:58 GMT >>I LOVE playing Doom, and even I can tell the difference between a game >>like >>Doom and a racing simulator like ICR or WorldCircuit. They are two >>entirely >>different crayons in the crayola box. > No kidding Ralph. Duh. Why do you think you are the smartest >person on the planet?

Good question, Boron. I can't answer that. How about you? Whay you YOU think I am the samrtest person on the planet, as you stated above? Or did you forget to insert a comma? Forget what I said yesterday, this is fun. It has been a long time since I've seen such a display of idiocy. Keep it up. Bring it on. I'm salivating at the prospect of reading more bullshit eminating from your pea-brain. C'mon. Ralf ____ __ ___ __ ____ __ _\ \ /(__)\ | ( /(__)\ )( /(__)\ http://www.webcom.com/~sabata/

> Can I canvass how many other users desire multiplayer (>2 player) LAN > support as a major priority for ICR 2.0?? > Speak up now and let Papyrus marketing managment know, or forever hold > your peace, as it isn't planned for inclusion according to the > response I have from Papyrus. If I understood correctly, you seem to implied that ICR 2.0 will have support for Online multiplayer. I assume that by Online you mean major services like Compuserve and AOL. Does it also include support for multiplayer over the Internet. That would be great. I, personnaly, would prefer to see these support (be it online, Internet or Lan) to be in the form of add-on package rather than to be included in the game so that to keep the price down. Furthermore, these add-on can be release later on, thus allowing to deliver ICR 2.0 earlier. Thanks Nicolas

Quoted text (59 lines)

>Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators >Path: >news.cac.psu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!msunews!harb >inger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!iccu6!news >Subject: Re: IndyCar(TM) Racing II News >Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 22:47:47 GMT >X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ppp5.ipswichcity.qld.gov.au >Organization: Global Infolinks Internet Server, Ipswich Qld Australia >X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.46 >Lines: 66 >Hi All >>>>>As I understand it, IndyCar 2.0 will NOT provide support for >>>>>multiplayer (more than 2 player) user-user LANs. >>>>>This is a feature which I personally desire *more than any other >>>>>change* to IndyCar. (Novell Netware LAN support) >And received the following response: >writes: >>>>Subject: Re: IndyCar(TM) Racing II News >>>>Date: 16 May 1995 16:34:14 GMT >>>>This is even harder than my desire to have an editor. >>>>arcade game VR Racing can have (or so I've heard) up to 32 machines >>>>connected and I doubt they use something as slow as Novell. Also, these >>>>machines have purpose built chips that make the Pentium look like a dog >>>>(ok, it is). In theory, it should be possible on a 10Mbits+ LAN, but it >>>>will all depend on how the software is written and how much info must be >>>>moved on the wire. >>>>bryon >>>>ps- see Ralf, I do have a clue. >>>Bryon, you direct your post at ME and I had nothing to do with the post you >>>referred to. >[much deleted] >>>Ralf >Says it all Ralf. >I like to make it clear that I too have absolutely no desire for a >track editor which essentially would turn the SIM into an arcade game. >From the response I have received so far, it also appears no-one much >cares about having LAN support. >BTW Byron, (and I welcome further comment or correction here if >someone out there better informed can illuminate the technical issues >more clearly), if Papyrus can get ICR working well over an analogue >phone system, a Novell net of 4 - 8 drivable cars with the rest of the >field computer controlled wouldn't exactly present them or 10 Mbps >ethernet/twisted pair with a major dilemma, and would be significantly >easier to write than creating 'Byronworld' using a "track editor" >with all the variables you desire...IMHO. >Regards >Keiron

Let me jump in and add my two cents at this point. I just found this group and have been trying to catch up on my reading. I also just returned from Indy qualifying and played the new version at Fanfest. I had the chance to talk to the Papyrus rep for quite a while while waiting in line. First off, The version being played was a beta copy of SVGA indycar, with network support. They were running a novel network with ethernet cards and the commercial version should be out Aug - Sep. time frame, and it will support multiplayer mode over LAN. As for track editors, he told methey use AutoCAD to design tracks, and then the completed track is imported into the game somehow. My limited knowldege of game programming prohibited a more indepth discussion of how it's compiled. If you really want more information, the guys name is David Matson, and I'm sure you could write him, fe seemed to be a pretty nice guy, at

says... [Awesome article by Paolo Montrasio deleted] Schurmann stands up and gives a cheer. Way to go Paolo. You tell 'um! bryon -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - If I were but what I was, I would not be anything but what I were. Bryon S. Lape Hodges Library in the department formerly known as "Automation" Proud owner of two songs banned from MTV. Suffering from political correctness deficiency syndrome.

Quoted text (9 lines)

> And, believe me, ICR, NASCAR and F1GP *are* just games. They will > become simulations the day you'll get hurt crashing on a wall. Until > then, they are just programs attempting to give you the feeling of > driving a racing car and to do that they have to better some aspects > of the reality (no injuries). So, why couln't I be allowed to better > the reality to a further degree by creating new tracks for my > personal use (I won't force you to run on them...) and for the people > who'll like them? > Paolo Montrasio

Okay, as far as CIR being more of a game than a sim, I won't argue that, for it could go on forever. Microsoft Flight Simulator 5.0 doesn't allow you to actually *feel* the G's in a dive or take on an injury when crashing either. Nontheless, it IS a flight simulator, and it is used in many flightschools to prepare pilots for the more advanced simulators and eventually actual flight. ICR is just as much a simulator from a technical point of view in that it concentrates a lot on car setup, the mechanics and physics. I don't have to get sensory and tactile feedback to simulate auto racing to the extent ICR does it for me. My comments in reference to track editors and such are specifically aimed at IndyCar Racing by Papyrus, which is a sim/game that serves a purpose, and has no need of editors of that type. If someone wants to create a racing sim that allows the creation of customs tracks, I encourage them to do so. But to expect it to come from IndyCar Racing by Papyrus is merely asking Papyrus to do the bulk of the work for you ("you" in general terms). If that person wants such a game/sim, write it. Ralf ____ __ ___ __ ____ __ _\ \ /(__)\ | ( /(__)\ )( /(__)\ http://www.webcom.com/~sabata/

Quoted text (14 lines)

> If I understood correctly, you seem to implied that ICR 2.0 will have > support for Online multiplayer. I assume that by Online you mean > major services like Compuserve and AOL. Does it also include > support for multiplayer over the Internet. That would be great. > I, personnaly, would prefer to see these support (be it online, > Internet or Lan) to be in the form of add-on package rather than to > be included in the game so that to keep the price down. Furthermore, > these add-on can be release later on, thus allowing to deliver ICR 2.0 > earlier. > Thanks > Nicolas

Papyrus is actually starting there own online service. I don't think there's a name for it yet. But from what I read earlier it'll be a 800 number service, mainly because there's too much of a delay in POP services like SprintNet. With the 800 number, your calling the server directly which means it'll be as fast a regular modem H2H game. **************************************************************** Hartsdale, NY "BsOiRgInNaGture" Cloud 9 Internet ****************************************************************

I also just returned from Indy qualifying and played the new version at Fanfest. I had the chance to talk to the Papyrus rep for quite a while while waiting in line. First off, The version being played was a beta copy of SVGA indycar, with network support. They were running a novel network with ethernet cards and the commercial version should be out Aug - Sep. time frame, and it will support multiplayer mode over LAN. <<< I think you misunderstood. What we showed at Fanfest was specially made just for Fanfest. It was not ICR 2.0. It did have SVGA-quality car definitions, but did not have the new artwork being developed for ICR 2.0. Furthermore, while yes, we do run multiplayer testing in-house over a Novell network, there are no plans at this time to release such a product. The multiplayer service is a dial-in service provided by Papyrus through which you can race against other players in various leagues. Again, there is no plan at this time to release a multiplayer, network version of ICR or NASCAR. Rick Genter Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing 2.0 Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

: > No kidding Ralph. Duh. Why do you think you are the smartest : >person on the planet? : And YOU wonder why I spell your name Byron, when you still can't spell my : name. You pay such close attention to detail. : Ralf Ralf...forget Byron...stick with Boron Chuck

|> You're also right about Papyrus. If they want to release a track editor |> I'll welcome it, but if they don't, well, they can do whatever they want |> with their time and their money. However I hope that now they know that a |> share of the market (a very small share, perhaps) is waiting for it. 'free (=user designed) tracks available' would be a good argument for buying Papyrus simulators, right? |> Perhaps they can sell the editor they are using to produce the tracks... Do they really develope the tracks on a PC? I don't think so... |> they can donate the specifications of the tracks data files. This would be quite helpful. |> I don't know if I'll have the technical skills and |> the time to write the editor, but I hope that some day in the |> future I'll be able to run on a track I designed. True for me too!!! Herbert 'want a track editor' Pohlai --

Agreed, look what some have done with the PaintKit program that comes with NASCAR Racing. I personally don't have the time to paint a bunch of cars to look like the real things, but somebody did! And what a wonderful job they did too! Kudos... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking." - H. L. Mencken ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>: Okay, as far as CIR being more of a game than a sim, I won't argue that, for >: it could go on forever. Microsoft Flight Simulator 5.0 doesn't allow you to >:[...] >: My comments in reference to track editors and such are specifically aimed at >: IndyCar Racing by Papyrus, which is a sim/game that serves a purpose, and has >: no need of editors of that type. If someone wants to create a racing sim that I don't know if I completely agree with that... for example, I'd sure like to run an IndyCar at, say, Texas Speedway, or Road Atlanta, or Watkins Glen. Or Monaco ;-) -- Brian Wong Product Marketing Engineering

says... First, I am not and idiot. Second, my first post stated why I wanted a creator/editor. Third, playing DOOM makes me nauseous and it sucks; Heretic is much better. Lastly, I never suggested boycotting Papyrus. I just had it in my .sig file that I was leading the charge. I do have a Sega but I never play it any more, but I do not have an Amiga. And when I want to, I play "smash 'em up" without a figure 8. Ok Ralf, get out your Harbrace. bsl -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Within five years the difference between social security and welfare is the spelling. Bryon S. Lape Hodges Library in the department formerly known as "Automation" Proud owner of two songs banned from MTV. Suffering from political correctness deficiency syndrome.

Quoted text (8 lines)

>says... >>I believe that there are some valid uses for a track editor and you >>pointed out some. However, this thread was started by an idiot who >>suggested that we boycott Papyrus because THEY did not wish to make a >>track editor ala' Doom! > First, I am not and idiot. Second, my first post stated why I

No? Who are you to judge? :-) The statement/arguement was bogus... You want a track editor? I suggest ROAD & TRACKS Grand Prix Unlimited. Of course the whole game completely sucked. But, you have to put up with that if you want a track editor. So what is this? The WEBSTERS definition of "hypocrisy"? ie... "The practice of expressing feelings, beliefs, or virtues one does not hold or possess: INCINCERITY."