Steve Smith/question

Steve, I tried to send you an email, but it got kicked back to me. I am asking your advice on driving schools. I would like your advice/experiences with any that you have used etc. I would prefer roadies to ovals, but mostly just want seat time and to have some fun. I don't have dreams of being a professional race car driver(37, 2 young kids). I just have a driving mojo and would like to try and satisfy it a little. Thanks, Chad -- Chad Rogers Hospital Account Manager P&G Pharmaceuticals (206)368-3582 (206)963-2036 cell

Hi Chad, My email addy's out there for all to see: [email hidden] ... once you remove the obvious. I don't know that much about driving schools. (In my day, you joined the SCCA and showed up for their schools, which were pretty lassez faire affairs: run whatcha brung...and if you rolled it into a ball, no wrecker, but they *might* sent an ambulance out there to see if you were ok.) Dave Kaemmer obviously went far with the Skip Barber programs (I think he still races Barber Dodge). And Jim Russell (which built the fake F1 cars used in the movie "Grand Prix"). And the the Bob Bondurant schools. All have programs from a one-day refresher course in street driving to weeks-long serious schools for people wanting to graduate to professional single seater classes. A number of marques like BMW, Porsche, and Mazda also operate schools...but you'd better not show up in an AMC Pacer. There are also regional clubs all around the country that mainly exist so that drivers of hot street machines (think 350Z with pizza-sized Brembos) can get a little track time w/o turning their daily ride into a gutted Trans-Am racer. Even age-themed leagues like Trackmasters. For my money, the best bang for the buck is go-kart racing. You don't have to spend much to get going (renting or buying a used kart is a popular option), the machines are easy to haul around, maintain & tune, and the competition is fierce. (You can also show up for open praccy if you don't want to race wheel-to-wheel flag-to-flag.) The little retro-looking, cycle-powered Legends cars are also fun, altho a little more money and better safety (I always felt dangerously exposed in karts). --Steve "Chad Rogers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Steve, > > I tried to send you an email, but it got kicked back to me. > I am asking your advice on driving schools. I would like your > advice/experiences with any that you have used etc. I would preferroadies > to ovals, but mostly just want seat time and to have some fun. I don'thave

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> dreams of being a professional race car driver(37, 2 young kids). I just > have a driving mojo and would like to try and satisfy it a little. > > Thanks, > > Chad > > > -- > Chad Rogers > Hospital Account Manager > P&G Pharmaceuticals > (206)368-3582 > (206)963-2036 cell > >

In article <[email hidden]>, "Chad Rogers" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Steve, > >I tried to send you an email, but it got kicked back to me. >I am asking your advice on driving schools. I would like your >advice/experiences with any that you have used etc. I would prefer roadies >to ovals, but mostly just want seat time and to have some fun. I don't have >dreams of being a professional race car driver(37, 2 young kids). I just >have a driving mojo and would like to try and satisfy it a little.

Some more info to what Steve sent you... Check autoweek.com for a list of schools with links. Here's the direct link: http://www.autoweek.com/docs/drivingschool_0904.pdf. I haven't done one, but I'm leaning toward ESPNRussell (formerly Jim Russell) at Infineon (formerly Sears Point). Where are you, when do you want to go, and what are you looking for? drive your own car, or sportscar, or open wheel? famous track? lots of instruction? warm sunny state in winter? If your particular car has an enthusiast forum (ex: s2ki.com, miata.net), check in with them. You'll find lots of people have done many schools.

Good advice, Dave. Autoweek has an annual issue devoted to driving schools. Road & Track also occasionally publishes articles, maybe even indices (izzat the plural of "index"?). "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:szAfd.22579$[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, "Chad Rogers"<[email hidden]> wrote: > >Steve, > > > >I tried to send you an email, but it got kicked back to me. > >I am asking your advice on driving schools. I would like your > >advice/experiences with any that you have used etc. I would preferroadies > >to ovals, but mostly just want seat time and to have some fun. I don'thave

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> >dreams of being a professional race car driver(37, 2 young kids). I just > >have a driving mojo and would like to try and satisfy it a little. > > > Some more info to what Steve sent you... > > Check autoweek.com for a list of schools with links. Here's the > direct link: http://www.autoweek.com/docs/drivingschool_0904.pdf. > > I haven't done one, but I'm leaning toward ESPNRussell (formerly > Jim Russell) at Infineon (formerly Sears Point). Where are you, > when do you want to go, and what are you looking for? > > drive your own car, or sportscar, or open wheel? > famous track? > lots of instruction? > warm sunny state in winter? > > If your particular car has an enthusiast forum (ex: s2ki.com, > miata.net), check in with them. You'll find lots of people have > done many schools.

Thanks guys, I live in Seattle and prefer a roadie I think. I have done the indoor carting a bit, but frankly am a little scared to drive the fast outdoor carts. I have a friend that is a local BMW club guy and I will probably drive his car a little next year. I am dreaming of a supercar with the GTR craze taking me over, I know that Bondurant has C5's so maybe that will be the place for me. Chad "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:x_Bfd.22595$[email hidden]...

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> Good advice, Dave. Autoweek has an annual issue devoted to driving > schools. > Road & Track also occasionally publishes articles, maybe even indices > (izzat > the plural of "index"?). > > "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:szAfd.22579$[email hidden]... >> In article <[email hidden]>, "Chad Rogers" > <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >Steve, >> > >> >I tried to send you an email, but it got kicked back to me. >> >I am asking your advice on driving schools. I would like your >> >advice/experiences with any that you have used etc. I would prefer > roadies >> >to ovals, but mostly just want seat time and to have some fun. I don't > have >> >dreams of being a professional race car driver(37, 2 young kids). I >> >just >> >have a driving mojo and would like to try and satisfy it a little. >> >> >> Some more info to what Steve sent you... >> >> Check autoweek.com for a list of schools with links. Here's the >> direct link: http://www.autoweek.com/docs/drivingschool_0904.pdf. >> >> I haven't done one, but I'm leaning toward ESPNRussell (formerly >> Jim Russell) at Infineon (formerly Sears Point). Where are you, >> when do you want to go, and what are you looking for? >> >> drive your own car, or sportscar, or open wheel? >> famous track? >> lots of instruction? >> warm sunny state in winter? >> >> If your particular car has an enthusiast forum (ex: s2ki.com, >> miata.net), check in with them. You'll find lots of people have >> done many schools. > >

Hi Chad... I think Steve and I probably did our real racing around the same time/era.....I'd have to say "ditto" on everything he said to you. Since you are in Seattle, have you checked to see if the Dane Pitarresse (sp?) School at Portland International is still operating? I used to instruct there when he first started but have not talked to or heard from him in a couple years (though I did hear he was at the run-offs this year running the crew for Duane Davis). PIR is a great track for a beginner....fast, hard to negotiate and extremely lots of room to exit the black stuff! He used to let you do his schools in a "rental car." But maybe all the rental car companies at Portland International got on to him? LOL..... Even though I work at Infineon every day and I'm pretty close to all the Russell management, I'd pass on doing a Russell school unless you want to go racing. Because of the difficulty of Infineon, they are pretty docile with regard to their "non-racer" schools. Not much "free lapping" time....lots of classroom and following the leader around at 50 mph (he in a van, you in a dinker open wheeler). All of that means B.O.R.I.N.G! They did experiment with a "Stockcar Road Racing School" a month ago......using GTA cars. But, it was for people who already had a competition racing license and wanted to get some seat time in a stock car on a road course. (((PS: I didn't say any of the above to you....right? LOL....I think Ken Ude would kill me! LOL))) I think Bondurant is you best choice......I was invited down for a day to "play" in the Cads when he first got them! Way too much fun! He's also got a track/facility that is huge....lots of choices for road course configs and all safe as hell! Better weather there too, than all the others.....this time of year. As far as Skip B. stuff.....word is Laguna is closing (selling off equipment and filing for Bankruptcy) and also the Derek Daly school at Las Vegas is "selling off equipment." Skip them both........you know what the first thing to skimp on when you are a racing school short on cash is, don't you? Yep....maintenance on the cars! Since you've already done the "karts" thang......you'll not get much satisfaction out of any of the east coast open wheel schools, IMHO.......similar feel/experience to the karts. Bondurant in those racey Cads......that's the ticket! And Bob is still active daily in his schools.....that's worth it just on its own! Hope this helps....?? Take care, Tom

I didn't mention it at first, but I have a beef w. Skip Barber. A year or so ago, Mr. Barber sold his schools to somebody else. The new owner didn't honor the pre-paid tuitions of o lot of ppl who'd signed up for future lessons (I guess some gift certificates were involved). Something about having bought the assets but not assuming the liabilities. Legal niceties aside, I thought it was a pretty sh*tty thing to do...especially since Mr. Barber is fat enuf to show up at auctions and place multi-million-dollar bids on cars he fancies. I guess his good name doesn't have as much value. I haven't in good conscience been able to recommend Skip Barber schools since, and maybe I shoulda said something sooner.... "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hsGfd.428815$mD.336350@attbi_s02...

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> Hi Chad... > > I think Steve and I probably did our real racing around the same > time/era.....I'd have to say "ditto" on everything he said to you. > > Since you are in Seattle, have you checked to see if the Dane Pitarresse > (sp?) School at Portland International is still operating? I used to > instruct there when he first started but have not talked to or heard from > him in a couple years (though I did hear he was at the run-offs this year > running the crew for Duane Davis). PIR is a great track for a > beginner....fast, hard to negotiate and extremely lots of room to exit the > black stuff! He used to let you do his schools in a "rental car." But > maybe all the rental car companies at Portland International got on to

him? > LOL..... > > Even though I work at Infineon every day and I'm pretty close to all the > Russell management, I'd pass on doing a Russell school unless you want togo > racing. Because of the difficulty of Infineon, they are pretty docilewith > regard to their "non-racer" schools. Not much "free lapping" time....lots > of classroom and following the leader around at 50 mph (he in a van, youin > a dinker open wheeler). All of that means B.O.R.I.N.G! They didexperiment > with a "Stockcar Road Racing School" a month ago......using GTA cars.But, > it was for people who already had a competition racing license and wantedto > get some seat time in a stock car on a road course. (((PS: I didn't say > any of the above to you....right? LOL....I think Ken Ude would kill me! > LOL))) > > I think Bondurant is you best choice......I was invited down for a day to > "play" in the Cads when he first got them! Way too much fun! He's alsogot > a track/facility that is huge....lots of choices for road course configsand > all safe as hell! Better weather there too, than all the others.....this > time of year. > > As far as Skip B. stuff.....word is Laguna is closing (selling offequipment > and filing for Bankruptcy) and also the Derek Daly school at Las Vegas is > "selling off equipment." Skip them both........you know what the first > thing to skimp on when you are a racing school short on cash is, don'tyou?

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> Yep....maintenance on the cars! > > Since you've already done the "karts" thang......you'll not get much > satisfaction out of any of the east coast open wheel schools, > IMHO.......similar feel/experience to the karts. > > Bondurant in those racey Cads......that's the ticket! And Bob is still > active daily in his schools.....that's worth it just on its own! > > Hope this helps....?? > > Take care, > > Tom > >

In article <hsGfd.428815$mD.336350@attbi_s02>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Even though I work at Infineon every day and I'm pretty close to all the >Russell management, I'd pass on doing a Russell school unless you want to go >racing. [note: not original poster] Hmmm, sad to hear. As I mentioned before, I'm leaning towards them and have been trying to convince a colleague to join me. I've done one track day (Miata), raced in an 8hp go-Kart league, been to the 'Ring a couple of times driving rentals, and auto-X a fair amount. I'm looking forward to trying real open-wheelers, am a handling guy, not a power guy, a good track I like, and lots of fast seat time. Sounds like I won't get the latter at Russell :-( I dunno about Bondurant as the heavy CTS-V doesn't do it for me. Any other suggestions??

In article <UcLfd.46988$[email hidden]>, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>I didn't mention it at first, but I have a beef w. Skip Barber. A year or >so ago, Mr. Barber sold his schools to somebody else. The new owner didn't >honor the pre-paid tuitions of o lot of ppl who'd signed up for future >lessons (I guess some gift certificates were involved). Something about >having bought the assets but not assuming the liabilities. Legal niceties >aside, I thought it was a pretty sh*tty thing to do...especially since Mr. >Barber is fat enuf to show up at auctions and place multi-million-dollar >bids on cars he fancies. I guess his good name doesn't have as much value. >I haven't in good conscience been able to recommend Skip Barber schools >since, and maybe I shoulda said something sooner....

So are you saying that Skip himself should have paid the tuition for the racers involved? I can see why the new owner wouldn't want to give away lessons to people he hadn't collected from, though... Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank: -1.047 Slayer Spektera lvl 79 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 44 Necro US East

Usually, when one outfit buys another, they assume both the assets and the liabilities as part of the deal. Now that Cingular has bought AT&T Wireless, for example, how would you like it if--as an AT&T customer--your pre-paid cell-phone plan wasn't honored by Cingular? Generating gobs of ill will drives customers away in droves. Preserving good will is just good business. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <UcLfd.46988$[email hidden]>, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I didn't mention it at first, but I have a beef w. Skip Barber. A yearor > >so ago, Mr. Barber sold his schools to somebody else. The new ownerdidn't > >honor the pre-paid tuitions of o lot of ppl who'd signed up for future > >lessons (I guess some gift certificates were involved). Something about > >having bought the assets but not assuming the liabilities. Legalniceties > >aside, I thought it was a pretty sh*tty thing to do...especially sinceMr. > >Barber is fat enuf to show up at auctions and place multi-million-dollar > >bids on cars he fancies. I guess his good name doesn't have as muchvalue. > >I haven't in good conscience been able to recommend Skip Barber schools > >since, and maybe I shoulda said something sooner.... > > So are you saying that Skip himself should have paid the tuition for theracers > involved? I can see why the new owner wouldn't want to give away lessonsto

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> people he hadn't collected from, though... > > Eldred > -- > http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Screamers League > IICC League > GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 > Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 > Hist. +82.34 MoH:na > N2k3 rank: -1.047 > Slayer Spektera lvl 79 assassin > Slayer Spectral_K lvl 44 Necro > US East

In article <UNQgd.57693$[email hidden]>, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> writes: >Usually, when one outfit buys another, they assume both the assets and the >liabilities as part of the deal. Now that Cingular has bought AT&T >Wireless, for example, how would you like it if--as an AT&T customer--your >pre-paid cell-phone plan wasn't honored by Cingular? Generating gobs of ill >will drives customers away in droves. Preserving good will is just good >business. No, I understand why previous customers would be pissed. I just didn't know that the buyer also assumed the liabilities of the business. So, what happens if those liabilities are mis-represented? Having to honor pre-paid stuff you weren't aware of could ruin a business. Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank: -1.047 Slayer Spektera lvl 79 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 44 Necro US East

That's why we're a nation of laws...supposedly. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <UNQgd.57693$[email hidden]>, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Usually, when one outfit buys another, they assume both the assets andthe > >liabilities as part of the deal. Now that Cingular has bought AT&T > >Wireless, for example, how would you like it if--as an AT&Tcustomer--your > >pre-paid cell-phone plan wasn't honored by Cingular? Generating gobs ofill > >will drives customers away in droves. Preserving good will is just good > >business. > > No, I understand why previous customers would be pissed. I just didn'tknow > that the buyer also assumed the liabilities of the business. So, whathappens > if those liabilities are mis-represented? Having to honor pre-paid stuffyou

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> weren't aware of could ruin a business. > > Eldred > -- > http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Screamers League > IICC League > GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 > Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 > Hist. +82.34 MoH:na > N2k3 rank: -1.047 > Slayer Spektera lvl 79 assassin > Slayer Spectral_K lvl 44 Necro > US East

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in news:[email hidden]: > So are you saying that Skip himself should have paid the tuition for > the racers involved? I can see why the new owner wouldn't want to > give away lessons to people he hadn't collected from, though... > > Eldred No, but the purchase price of the Barber name/school should have included all previously tendered tuititions. You don't give away anything...but the cost of buying the school should also include the costs of new lessons dave henrie

EldredP wrote:

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> In article <UNQgd.57693$[email hidden]>, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >>Usually, when one outfit buys another, they assume both the assets and the >>liabilities as part of the deal. Now that Cingular has bought AT&T >>Wireless, for example, how would you like it if--as an AT&T customer--your >>pre-paid cell-phone plan wasn't honored by Cingular? Generating gobs of ill >>will drives customers away in droves. Preserving good will is just good >>business. > > > No, I understand why previous customers would be pissed. I just didn't know > that the buyer also assumed the liabilities of the business. So, what happens > if those liabilities are mis-represented? Having to honor pre-paid stuff you > weren't aware of could ruin a business. > > Eldred

A well known game company cratered that way (partially) a few years ago. Microprose? IIRC, They bought a German firm that later turned out to be in debt to a bank for millions of dollars. Again IIRC, they backed out but lost millions themselves on it. - Matt