Multiplayer NASCAR & Indycar - the "official" word

There has been some chatter about Papyrus plans for multiplayer versions of our products in this newsgroup so I thought that I should start a thread to "officially" open the discussions before rumors exceed reality! Let me start off by saying that my name is Ed Martin & I am the Producer for Papyrus upcoming multiplayer service. You can safely surmise from that statement that rumors of this service have NOT been exaggerated. Following are some of the major points of interest of our service. Im willing to discuss these areas further based on interest. Please feel free to add onto this thread & Ill respond as soon as I can. If theres enough interest, Id be open to spinning this discussion off into its own newsgroup. - This fall, Papyrus will be releasing an online service allowing users to dial-in and race against each other in groups of 2-32 (of course, I suppose that you could technically race in groups of 1-32, but playing with yourself...). The service will provide for multiple concurrent races. - Initially, the service will support NASCAR Racing under DOS. Upon release this Christmas, we will add "the next generation" of Indycar Racing under DOS, Windows & Macintosh. In the first quarter of 1996, we will be adding support for NASCAR Racing under Windows & Macintosh. Users on all 3 platforms will be able to race against each other. It is planned that all future Papyrus products will be supported on our multiplayer service. - Current users of NASCAR Racing will be able to download an "enhancement" to their current version which will make it "multiplayable". Upon release of the service, new retail packages will automatically include the multiplayer enhancement. We are also planning to release a "freeware" version of the game which will be MULTIPLAYER ONLY, and will include a limited number of tracks (1 or 2). - The service is currently in ALPHA test & will be switching into BETA testing in May. Were getting close! - Access to the service will be primarily through 800 #s... with some local access numbers. Due to the nature of "real-time" ***, we have somewhat unique requirements for data lines. If youre interested, Ill be happy to get into a deeper discussion of telecommunications, but for now, Ill just do the short version... Most online services are primarily concerned with bandwidth (baud rate) and not very concerned about latency (the amount of time it takes for data to go from point A to point B). So, data networks such as Sprintnet which support high bandwidth (28.8 on down), can get away with latency of up to 5 seconds. If youre on one of the major online services, nobody really notices or cares if it takes an average of 2.2 seconds for the host to respond to your stock quote request. In car racing (or any real-time game), 2.2 seconds is "death". If you dont believe me, hop behind the wheel of NASCAR Racing, get bumper to bumper with someone at 200 MPH, & turn off your PCs monitor for 2.2 seconds. How did that wall feel? :-) For voice lines, telephone companies obsess about latency. When you talk to someone on the phone, no matter where in the US you both are calling from, you hear each other virtually instantly... the latency is virtually 0. The bottom line is that real-time online games need low latency... Today, that means that they need voice lines (though new data technologies hold great promise). This leaves 3 possibilities today: wait until low-cost, low-latency data networks exist, local/limited access only, or long distance charges. Option 1 just doesnt sound like a lot of fun. Game networks such as PlayNet & Dwango (online Doom) opt for option 2 - the local access route. Since Doom supports only 4 players, setting up in major cities works OK. For Papyrus games, a highlight of our network is a high volume of players in each race... we want national access to a central service so people from all across the country can play against each other. The net of this (no pun intended) is that we have negotiated some extraordinarily low rates for 800 service, but even so, voice lines are more expensive than data lines. Were doing our best, but please dont expect to see $3/hour rates over 800 #s. - System requirements for the service/games are planned to be essentially the same as they are for the single player versions... plus a modem, of course! Modems speeds of 9600 - 28.8 will be supported. - The focus of the service will be on what subscribers want -- key to this is race scheduling. There will be three ways in which racing will occur. First, we will have "open races". We will cycle through all available tracks on a number of "game servers" and allow anyone at any skill level to immediately jump into a session. The open races will cycle through 10 minute practice sessions followed by 10 minute race sessions. They will then set up for another track & begin the cycle again. Second, races will be scheduled by users. We will have a "scheduler" which will coordinate the multiple concurrent races which can be run. A user will be able to either "nominate" a race, or they can join a race that has already been nominated. For example, say that I log in & want to race at Bristol. I will be able to nominate a race there, along with all pertinent options (race length, damage on/off, yellows on/off, etc... even "IROC" car setups if I want). As a race nominator, I will be able to select the skill level(s) that I want to allow into the race. All users on the service will have a skill level associated with them (skill levels will be dynamically set/adjusted over time based upon a number of criteria... essentially gauging how well you have performed in relation to other racers). The purpose of the skill levels will be to help users to set up races against their "peers" (in terms of racing skill level). Conversely, as a user, I will be able to look at the races currently nominated on the scheduler & join any of them (as long as I fit within the parameters of the skill levels for that race). Once a critical mass of people online decide to join a nominated race, it will begin. The third way to schedule a race will be through leagues. Users on the service will be able to organize themselves into groups (leagues) and "pre-book" time blocks on the service for their events (e.g. every Tuesday night from 8-9 EDT). Each league will assign a league administrator who will be responsible for setting up the race (track, settings, etc.). Each league will be given a private forum on the service for discussions, file exchange, etc. Thats probably enough of a "core dump" for now. Like I said, if you have questions or comments, please add onto this thread & Ill do my best to get back to yall as soon as I can (please be a little patient... as you might imagine, things are pretty busy about now!). There probably a number of people reading this who have been involved in testing so far... so feel free to join in the discussions. Thanks!!!

I sure hope this works. :) I have some questions/comments. 1. I currently play an online game called SVGA Airwarrior. I pay a $1.50 an hour. You'll have to be fairly competitive with that if you want my money. I also pay a $30 a month fee to CRIS which provides this service. Have you considered CRIS as a viable option? They have an incredibly fast network setup. Delays are even more important in Airwarrior. If you get a delay of say 2 seconds you could have planes warping in from 2 or 3 thousand feet to 500 yards. Not good when your trying to stay alive. Please consider CRIS. You can reach CRIS at cris.com. 2. What are you going to do about accidents and damage? On Airwarrior there are many aholes who love to***with your head. I could see people crashing into people on purpose after they have been lapped, etc. I could see many people losing their tempers. Will you charge people while they wait for a game to form up? That could become very expensive for me the consumer. I don't want to pay to sit around, even if I can practice. I would rather practice offline and pay to race online. I sure hope this works. Good luck. Thanks, Beau

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> I sure hope this works. :) I have some questions/comments. > 1. I currently play an online game called SVGA Airwarrior. I pay a > $1.50 an hour. You'll have to be fairly competitive with that if you > want my money. I also pay a $30 a month fee to CRIS which provides this > service. Have you considered CRIS as a viable option? They have an > incredibly fast network setup. Delays are even more important in > Airwarrior. If you get a delay of say 2 seconds you could have planes > warping in from 2 or 3 thousand feet to 500 yards. Not good when your > trying to stay alive. Please consider CRIS. You can reach CRIS at cris.com. > 2. What are you going to do about accidents and damage? On Airwarrior > there are many aholes who love to***with your head. I could see > people crashing into people on purpose after they have been lapped, etc. > I could see many people losing their tempers. Will you charge people > while they wait for a game to form up? That could become very expensive > for me the consumer. I don't want to pay to sit around, even if I can > practice. I would rather practice offline and pay to race online. > I sure hope this works. Good luck. > Thanks, > Beau

Beau, I am very familiar with both Air Warrior & Concentric Research. As for CRIS, all I can say is that we have talked to & continue to talk to them. As for your comment about delays being more important in Air Warrior, that's not exactly true. Air Warrior was designed to work in high latency/ low bandwidth environments. Until recently, the main path to them was with a 2400BPS modem via GENie. Because you are never really wing-to-wing (read bumper-to-bumper) with your opponents in AW, they get away with warping to compensate for latency. Air Warrior still supports 2400BPS GENie users in the same sky with 9600BPS CRIS users. As a CRIS user, you have an advantage. CRIS, your hourly rate is based upon how many hours you spread the $30 flat fee over. I really can't get into a discussion of our pricing model at this point, but we are very aware of what others are charging for what they offer. As for "crashers"/trouble-makers, we are going to great lengths to set up our service to maximize users' satisfaction. There are those who really enjoy demolition derby, those who are hard-core racers, and a lot of people in between. The service is being built to accomodate & protect all interests & skill levels. I think you'll be very happy with what we're doing. Thanks for the comments! --ed.

This sounds like a very excellent (be it ambitious) project. However, in having so many people allowed to race together, you stand the chance of getting the *** who wants to ruin it for everyone (eg. driving in the wrong direction, bumping everyone, etc). How should you deal with this? Well, you mentioned skill levels. How about if someone is goofing off, and someone else can prove it (via a replay file, maybe?), the offensive person gets dropped down one level. If they are dropped low enough, they won't be able to race with anyone else but those in the 'reject level'. Another option is to have one track set aside at a certain time for these people to goof off to their heart's content. Like a demolition-derby :) Also, will there be 'officals' watching the race? -- --- " I want my control back, but I'm afraid, I'll lose that feeling." --- Sammy Hagar, -=VH=-

<snip> The rates don't bother me as much as the latency. I tried the Sierra Network a long time ago and warping was a real problem. I think I paid like $0.50 an hour... even at that low of a price I didn't think it was worth it. If the multiplayer network makes driving as smooth as driving alone then I'd be willing to shell out $5/hour without complaining. BTW, what is the network going to be called? Or is it too early? Will there be a setting for mechanical failures? It'd be a little unrealistic if no driver falls out because of problem with the car. <snip> I can't wait until it starts! :D Kevin **************************************************************** Hartsdale, NY "BsOiRgInNaGture" Cloud 9 Internet ****************************************************************

Any plans for a UK server? Online in London have an Airwarrior server seperate from kesmai, I'm sure they'd jump at the chance to make a bit more money. Or Delphi in the UK have a link to the US Airwarrior host with almost no delay could something similar be tried? Or am I clutching at straws? -- Steve Rawlinson London, UK

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> The rates don't bother me as much as the latency. I tried the Sierra > Network a long time ago and warping was a real problem. I think I paid > like $0.50 an hour... even at that low of a price I didn't think it was > worth it. If the multiplayer network makes driving as smooth as driving > alone then I'd be willing to shell out $5/hour without complaining. > BTW, what is the network going to be called? Or is it too early? > Will there be a setting for mechanical failures? It'd be a little > unrealistic if no driver falls out because of problem with the car.

Our latency will be similar to that of "voice quality" lines. This gives us very realistic multiplayer gameplay. As for the name, we're not ready to announce that yet... stay tuned. Car damage & engine problems are integrated into the game. --ed.

> Any plans for a UK server? Online in London have an Airwarrior server > seperate from kesmai, I'm sure they'd jump at the chance to make a bit > more money. We aren't yet ready to talk about our european plans. However, we are very aware of the demand overseas. Stay tuned! --ed.

Great suggestions! We are very much in tune with the varied desires of our users & want to accomodate them to the best of our abilities. We are taking a number of steps to ensure that "peers" are able to race against each other without the constant worry of the "renegade". Also, as you point out, there is certainly a time & place for the renegades to have fun. We will have replays of all races & all users will have the ability to enter a protest. Because there will be multiple concurrent racers, we can't watch everything live, but there will be a monitoring structure in place. Like I said, this is a major focus for us... I think you'll be pretty happy with what we're doing! Thanks again for the suggestions! --ed.