Steering wheels

I was just wondering if anyone has had experience with steering wheel devices. I reckon that there is no point in investing wads of money in a state-of-the-art pc for racing simulations if the input device is no good. I used to run F1GP with keys but you really had to run traction control and with steering help, the car had the feeling as if it was on rails. I have seen the Thrustmaster T1 but was not too impressed - no semi-automatic gearbox, and I didn't like the wheel design. The ARP ( is that right? ) from Simulation Systems sounds quite good - if anyone has any experience of using one then please tell me about it. In particular, I will want to play F1GP, IndyCar and NASCAR with it - are the 'pots' accurate, what is the general feel and do the gear switches work O.K.??? Also, what is the price, who do I get it from and is it available in the U.K. Normally the U.K. price is a direct conversion of $ to pounds and I would probably be willing to pay up to 150. Does anyone have an email for Simulation Systems? Fraser.

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>I have seen the Thrustmaster T1 but was not too impressed - no >semi-automatic gearbox, and I didn't like the wheel design. >The ARP ( is that right? ) from Simulation Systems sounds quite >good - if anyone has any experience of using one then please tell >me about it. In particular, I will want to play F1GP, IndyCar and >NASCAR with it - are the 'pots' accurate, what is the general feel >and do the gear switches work O.K.???

I was convinced to shell out the extra cash for an ACP after returning the T1 after only one day of use, and there's NO way I'd go back to joystick racing now.. it is a TERRIFIC wheel. If you want information on the ACP, call Mike Shiflett at 1-800-647-7623 ext. 13. -- T. Anthony Johns

Extra cash for the ACP? Wow, I thought the T1 was pricey. Approx how much is this ACP? I was thinking about picking up a T1, now I'm even more hesitant. What about the cheap flight yokes? I've seen them for as little as $45? Is this any better than a joystick? I'm not really a total cheapskate, but I did just upgrade to a 486dx2 mainly to run NASCAR! I'm not sure how much the wife is gonna let me get away with... --- ~Paul

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>>I have seen the Thrustmaster T1 but was not too impressed - no >>semi-automatic gearbox, and I didn't like the wheel design. >>The ARP ( is that right? ) from Simulation Systems sounds quite >>good - if anyone has any experience of using one then please tell >>me about it. In particular, I will want to play F1GP, IndyCar and >>NASCAR with it - are the 'pots' accurate, what is the general feel >>and do the gear switches work O.K.??? >I was convinced to shell out the extra cash for an ACP after returning the T1 >after only one day of use, and there's NO way I'd go back to joystick racing >now.. it is a TERRIFIC wheel. If you want information on the ACP, call Mike >Shiflett at 1-800-647-7623 ext. 13.

I've got quite an array of stuff now. I have a cheapo joystick, a pretty good one (Wingman Extreme), a yoke (very temporary), a Thrustmaster T1, and the Simulation Systems ACP. First, for serious racing, ditch the cheapo joysticks. The yoke (an Addison 'The Controller') is somewhat better than a cheap joystick and not as good as the Wingman Extreme stick (which is pretty good, but also not cheap at $50 or so). the Wingman Extreme has enough buttons that you can do manual shift up and down in addition to braking, which is important on road courses (ie F1GP or ICR). All of these are in a completely different class than the wheels. For oval racing, I think the Thrustmaster T1 is the best. It uses right-foot braking, has a semi-auto stick shift (meaning that it's really a stick that is off to the side), and has FAR better control than any of the sticks or yokes (I've also used a CH Flight Yoke, it is near the same as the Wingman). Quantitatively I can turn consistent laps around 239 mph at Michigan (IndyCar of course, not NASCAR) even with the Ilmor engine - but only when I use one of the wheels. I can do low 239s with the Wingman but NOT with the others; the Addision yoke is really pretty bad - I couldn't manage to beat 238.2 with it in a fair amount of trying, while I pulled off a 240.413 with my T1. The disadvantage of the T1 is that it is pretty hard to shift frequently, as is required on road courses, and of course the well-known issues with pedal springs. If you are primarily or exclusively a NASCAR driver, I think the T1 is for you. The ACP is also a VERY good wheel - I did 240.00x with it almost right out of the box. It has the *MAJOR* advantage (to me) that it has semi-auto gearshift buttons right on the wheel - you can shift up or down without losing control, even shifting a lot for the (very) tight gearing I use at Laguna Seca. *HOWEVER* less-than-fanatical racers will discover that the LEFT-FOOT BRAKING is quite foreign, and that alone loses me ~3 seconds at Laguna Seca so far. It is also not what real ICR or NASCAR drivers are doing - F1 bigots (especially McLaren fans) will feel right at home though. My personal preference would be a T1 with gearshifts on the wheel or column, but that doesn't really exist right now as far as I know. (I have sort of *made* it by using the right-foot-braking T1 pedal unit with the ACP wheel unit, but that's a $250 solution...) I drive mostly IndyCar. I had maintainance issues with both the T1 and the ACP - I broke the T1 springs like everyone else, and my ACP arrived with shipping damage. Both companies were VERY good about dealing with the problems. If you drop the $115 for the T1 or the $150 (gasp) for the ACP (these are the discount mailorder prices from Chips & Bits), do yourself a favor and get a *quality* game card. I have discovered from experience and a bit of testing that most of the sound boards with integrated game ports are subject to a pretty fair amount of thermal drift. (I can cheat to some degree, since I work for a computer vendor where I can find experts on such things.) I have a Cardinal Jazz SB-16 compatible in a Gateway 2000 and find that it drifts horribly; it is aggravated by the fact that it is delivered from Gateway mounted 3/8" above my 486 cpu, but even moving it in the box didn't stop the problem. I tried the SoundBlaster AWE-32 that I have in my P90 at work, and discovered that it too is thermally sensitive, albeit somewhat less so. After major frustration with my Jazz card, I broke down and got a Thrustmaster ACM game card, and have discovered that it is nearly 100% insensitive to thermal drift - which is precisely what Thrustmaster claims. I paid $29.95 for my ACM card, which is steep for a game card but cheap compared to the wheels. Any questions, please ask. -- Brian Wong Product Marketing Engineering

: I was convinced to shell out the extra cash for an ACP after returning the T1 : after only one day of use, and there's NO way I'd go back to joystick racing : now.. it is a TERRIFIC wheel. If you want information on the ACP, call Mike : Shiflett at 1-800-647-7623 ext. 13. I gave them a call and the current price is $180. I choked over the cost of the T1, and this really stunned me. I asked for the spec sheet on it so maybe I'll be blown away with what I see and shell out the extra $$. One thing stuck me as odd, though. The rep. told me it's not a "bolt to a table unit" like the T1. I'm wondering what he means by this. P.S. Still eagerly awaiting the car update from Johns! :) -- ***************************************************************************** * Dave Barkley So this is how a Sig file works! * * I guess I'm suppose to put something witty here.... * *****************************************************************************

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>: I was convinced to shell out the extra cash for an ACP after returning the T1 >: after only one day of use, and there's NO way I'd go back to joystick racing >: now.. it is a TERRIFIC wheel. If you want information on the ACP, call Mike >: Shiflett at 1-800-647-7623 ext. 13. >I gave them a call and the current price is $180. I choked over the cost of >the T1, and this really stunned me. I asked for the spec sheet on it so maybe >I'll be blown away with what I see and shell out the extra $$. One thing >stuck me as odd, though. The rep. told me it's not a "bolt to a table unit" >like the T1. I'm wondering what he means by this.

The T1 is a two-piece unit: there's a pedal unit that sits on the floor, and a dash/wheel unit which you drape over the edge of your table. Since it's not really heavy, you need to do something to keep it nailed down. TM includes suction cups and velcro pads, but IMHO neither of them are anything to write home about. The ACP is a free-standing unit. I have found that it is not quite as stable as the T1, precisely because it is free-standing and not bolted to table which is heavy to begin with and weighed down by a heavy monitor to boot. So far I have not been able to keep the ACP itself under control. Part of that is because my IndyCar is (ahem, PC)... is located in a room with hardwood floors rather than carpets. The ACP didn't come with little *** feet, and I think I'm going to ahve to go add some. Do yourself a favor and don't pay retail for either of them: Chips & Bits sells them for $111 and $158 respectively. (1-800-753-GAME). Even after shipping you'll save a healthy chunk of change. -- Brian Wong Product Marketing Engineering

>P.S. Still eagerly awaiting the car update from Johns! :) I'll have it up this morning. Same file, new cars. --- IWCC: http://www.webcom.com/~zyllyx/welcome.html MM#6/JA#07/RM#1/DW#17

[Snip] Does anyone know where in the UK I can get one of these? I have a free wheel (Logic 3). This is ok for F1GP but not ICR street, and no way for ICR/NCR ovals. Does the T1 work well for ovals? Bob -- Bob Mallett - Maidstone, England

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>[Snip] >>The ACP is a free-standing unit. I have found that it is not quite as stable >>as the T1, precisely because it is free-standing and not bolted to table >>which is heavy to begin with and weighed down by a heavy monitor to boot. >>So far I have not been able to keep the ACP itself under control. Part >>of that is because my IndyCar is (ahem, PC)... is located in a room with >>hardwood floors rather than carpets. The ACP didn't come with little >>*** feet, and I think I'm going to ahve to go add some. >>Do yourself a favor and don't pay retail for either of them: Chips & Bits >>sells them for $111 and $158 respectively. (1-800-753-GAME). Even after >>shipping you'll save a healthy chunk of change. >Does anyone know where in the UK I can get one of these? I have a >free wheel (Logic 3). This is ok for F1GP but not ICR street, and >no way for ICR/NCR ovals. Does the T1 work well for ovals?

The T1 works *GREAT* on ovals. I think it's better than the ACP on ovals. -- Brian Wong Product Marketing Engineering