Driving Simulators-REAL?

Are there any driving simulators out there that have real life situations? I have been looking around and can't find one. I'm just saying something that you drive on different streets and things like that, not racing in otheer words!

I'd like to see a training style sim, where you drive under various conditions, test reaction time, descion making skills and so on. Bill Gillam

I too would like to see a game that was more related to real life, one where you could drive around on simulated city streets, backroads, and highways. In fact, I'm so eager to see a game like this I am planning on starting writing one at the beginning of the summer. I am a fully competent programmer who has written projects before in the past, and will have at least three other people working on the game with me. However, I don't think that what we are all seeking can be done on today's computers -- to the greatness that we want it. A city street atmostphere, where the roads are mostly flat, would be very easy to simulate. Even little hills could still be rendered in a very high quality very quickly, allowing 386 users to play the game. Problems arise, however, when one wants to see a game where they can drive over hills and through a rolling terrain. Either an unbelievably fast computer which can calculate the terrain, or one with vast memory storage to save a bunch of precalculated values, would be required to use it. If somebody, though, would like to offer input, I'd be glad to take it. With my current plans, I will probably have at least a demo of a driving simulation on city streets (When I say city streets I really mean an environment with a lot of flat roads) featuring a very realistic environment and automotive characteristics by summer's end. Feel free to drop me a line if you'd like to talk about it. -Adrian Dorsman Student, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute

: highways. In fact, I'm so eager to see a game like this I am planning on : starting writing one at the beginning of the summer. I am a fully competent : programmer who has written projects before in the past, and will have at least three other people working on the game with me. However, I don't think that : what we are all seeking can be done on today's computers -- to the greatness : that we want it. : : A city street atmostphere, where the roads are mostly flat, would be very easy : to simulate. Even little hills could still be rendered in a very high quality : very quickly, allowing 386 users to play the game. Problems arise, however, when one wants to see a game where they can drive over hills and through a : rolling terrain. Either an unbelievably fast computer which can calculate the : terrain, or one with vast memory storage to save a bunch of precalculated values, would be required to use it. : : If somebody, though, would like to offer input, I'd be glad to take it. With : my current plans, I will probably have at least a demo of a driving simulation : on city streets (When I say city streets I really mean an environment with a lot of flat roads) featuring a very realistic environment and automotive characteristics by summer's end. Feel free to drop me a line if you'd like to talk about it. : : -Adrian Dorsman : Student, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Well I think what we need is a Microsoft Driving Sim 5.0...Basically a generic driving simulator that can have whatever kind or roads or trcks you want as well as the ability to add/make more vehicles and terrain/tracks I really don't think this would be too hard but nobody has done it. Soren Barr

Several years ago, such a simulation was made but never released. I believe it was written by the same man who programmed Falcon. It involved driving a Corvette ZR1 in the hilly streets of San Francisco. This was programmed for the Amiga, as I recall. As for why it wasn't released... Either it was deemed not gamey enough (just driving around, dealing with traffic, no points to score, no point at all in fact) or it was decided by the company not to publish anything else for Amiga. Both have equal possibility of being true. --

No, it's not that hard to do it like Microsoft did their flight simulator... You just have to remember that when you're in a plane you are high off the ground, and so you don't need to have a whole lot of detail. However, in a driving simulator, everybody expects asphault texture on the roads, nice pretty buildings with very realistic texturing, and a whole slew of detail that really can bog down a computer. Like I said, It'd take one hell of a machine to really execute a program of this magnitude. If you are really interested, write me back and I can look into writing the game for DX-4's and Pentiums. If I make those the requirements, I can write one hell of a simulator. -Adrian Dorsman Student, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute

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>Several years ago, such a simulation was made but never released. >I believe it was written by the same man who programmed Falcon. >It involved driving a Corvette ZR1 in the hilly streets of San >Francisco. This was programmed for the Amiga, as I recall. >As for why it wasn't released... Either it was deemed not gamey >enough (just driving around, dealing with traffic, no points to >score, no point at all in fact) or it was decided by the company >not to publish anything else for Amiga. Both have equal possibility >of being true.

It was released for the PC and the Mac. It was called Vette. It was a pretty goof game I thought. -- Guanyao Cheng http://www.uni.uiuc.edu/~gcheng/guanyao.html

: You just have to remember that when you're in a plane you are high off the : ground, and so you don't need to have a whole lot of detail. However, in : a driving simulator, everybody expects asphault texture on the roads, nice : pretty buildings with very realistic texturing, and a whole slew of detail : that really can bog down a computer. Like I said, It'd take one hell of a : machine to really execute a program of this magnitude. If you are really : interested, write me back and I can look into writing the game for DX-4's and : Pentiums. If I make those the requirements, I can write one hell of a simulator. : : -Adrian Dorsman : Student, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Well that wouldn't do me any good, I don't have a dx4 or pentium. As was metioned by somebody else Vette was similar to my description but it only has San Fransisco and only parts or it, etc... I think it would be cool if you had a generic simulator evan if it didn't have super grapics (or you could turn them off or down to suit slower computers) but one that was "universal"...Like I sadi vette was close, although the driving is antiquated now ( made in 1989). I would love a game/simulator where you could drive through a city, run red lights, get chased by police, race head to head with friends, and so on... Anyway thats just my thoughts... Soren Barr

was metioned by somebody else Vette was similar to my description but it only has San "universal"...Like I That does sound cool. Just adriving sim with some special features like 2-player mode, cop chases, and some normal, everyday cars. Driving down alleys, on the sidewalks or just plain fooling around. Man..what an idea! l8r. ------------------------------------------------------------- " Religion is the opiate of the Masses", Karl Marx All beware of the GLoorrriiiooosss Revolution. -------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, there was a program called Vette! a number of years ago for the IBM, doing just that. Primitive by our standards, but it may still be available. -David

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>Subject: Re: Driving Simulators-REAL? >Date: 17 Dec 1994 06:52:30 GMT >writes: >> That does sound cool. Just adriving sim with some special >>features like 2-player mode, cop chases, and some normal, everyday cars. >>Driving down alleys, on the sidewalks or just plain fooling around. >>Man..what an idea! >This could be interesting: Add strategy by having it a car chase >game, where you're driving a police car in pursuit of someone, and >you have to help deploy others in an effort to catch the fugitive. >Higher levels would make for more difficult cities and roads as >well as better crook drivers. >--

-------------- Wow, this is really digressing from the original posting's desires. What you're describing is a free form race game. Nascar seems almost ideal for that, but most of my real driving is on major highways, where the "action" is not a series of stop lights and cross traffic. I drive a big, heavy boat of a car; entrance/exit ramps have always had special meaning to me. The roads are safer now that I can get my yah-yah's in a sim. It may sound boring, but a simple "drive to the shopping mall" sim would have some appeal for me. Hmmm... San Diego has major freeways wired for live traffic counts and avg speed statistics. Maybe a sim could tap into live, or a statistical average, data to give a feel for what this morning's drive was like :). It's value would most certainly be almost entirely educational. I think any PC based sim of this nature will fail because of the non-existent tactile feedback and the very narrow field of view. Situation awareness is about the most important thing you can teach an unexperienced driver. The potential on PC's is decidedly limited. The alternative that this discussion is evolving to is an arcade game. A chase game has only two possible outcomes: you catch the bad guy, or someone dies in the process. Well, maybe three---he ducks into an alley and evades capture. The most likely outcome, though, is "tragedy," probably involving pedestrians or innocent cross-traffic. There can be little redeeming value for such a game. It can't possibly capture the depth of emotion involved in the most likely of outcomes. I like to think that police departments are more interested in preserving life than force capture at any cost. "Colateral damage" has got to be one of the most devastating things they have to live with. I'm happy with Nascar in this regard. The object is to run fastest, without the concerns for safety that would need to be central in a city chase game. Mike.

This could be interesting: Add strategy by having it a car chase game, where you're driving a police car in pursuit of someone, and you have to help deploy others in an effort to catch the fugitive. Higher levels would make for more difficult cities and roads as well as better crook drivers. --

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>>Subject: Re: Driving Simulators-REAL? >>Date: 17 Dec 1994 06:52:30 GMT >>writes: >you're describing is a free form race game. Nascar seems almost ideal for >based sim of this nature will fail because of the non-existent tactile >feedback and the very narrow field of view. Situation awareness is about the >most important thing you can teach an unexperienced driver. The potential on >PC's is decidedly limited.

It would be great to have a 3-d driving simulator with the use of a 'virtual reality' helmet. So for example, you turn your head left and the view would change accordingly. But this would again require a fast display. Of course, a really cheap and inconvenient way would be to use two keys on the keyboard to rotate the view as if you were rotating your head. Maybe with an option to have it rotate automatically before an approaching curve or something like that. Anyway, these are my thoughts. Thanks, -- Bolko Rawicz | "I build them to go, not to stop." - Ettore Bugatti replies at Simon | to criticism of brakes in Bugatti cars. "if you can afford Fraser Univ. | a Type 55 Bugatti, surely you can afford a heated garage!" in CANADA | - Ettore Bugatti on starting problems in cold weather.

: : > : >I would love a game/simulator where you could drive through a city, run : red : >lights, get chased by police, race head to head with friends, and so : on... : >Anyway thats just my thoughts... : > : > Soren Barr : > : > : : That does sound cool. Just adriving sim with some special : features like 2-player mode, cop chases, and some normal, everyday cars. : Driving down alleys, on the sidewalks or just plain fooling around. : Man..what an idea! : : : l8r. : and maybe be able to modify your car, etc (fixed allowance of $300-$500 a month?maybe an option of a car from each of the big 3, past & or present (*** a road runner around would be a cool simulator...) Patrick\:

There is something out there now that comes pretty damn close to what you're describing - 'Need for Speed' for the 3DO lets you drive as fast as you want through traffic, on mountain roads, etc. with other cars, cops, etc. It's like a vastly improved version of the old Test Drive from Accolade. I wish 3DO would come out with a wheel/pedal combo for the 3DO - that would make it a truly incredible game.

: There is something out there now that comes pretty damn close to : what you're describing - : : 'Need for Speed' for the 3DO lets you drive as fast as you want : through traffic, on mountain roads, etc. with other cars, cops, : etc. It's like a vastly improved version of the old Test Drive : from Accolade. I wish 3DO would come out with a wheel/pedal : combo for the 3DO - that would make it a truly incredible game. Sounds good but it doesn't do us non 3D0 owners much good :( Soren Barr