F1GP's strengths vs ICR

Just thought I'd point out that although ICR may be a better 'simulation' visually, it is sadly lacking in many areas, some of which are: Really poor race statistics (fastests laps, rankings, etc...), Lack of a save feature at any point other than in the Championship is really poor (it is so hand for practicing in F1GP to hop into the***pit of your previously gridded car and start a race), Lack of a inside-cockpit view (with instruments) this comes in very useful when watching other drivers race F1GP and learn approximate shift points and cornering speeds, The computer cars in ICR seem incredibly vunerable a slight tap will cause them to spin and even at low speeds they will 'crash' out of the race which is totally unrealistic, When watching a replay in ICR the sounds are an approximation of your shift points, I have heard it downshift twice when I know I only went into 5th gear and multiple 6th to 2nd downshifts are heard as one downshift. Finally ICR's keyboard routines for car control are inexcusable, they are pathetic in comparison to F1GP (even with steering and traction help OFF) Just a few opinions in support of F1GP Also, ICR will most likely pale in comparison to F1GPII (due soon?)

>Just thought I'd point out that although ICR may be a better 'simulation' >visually, it is sadly lacking in many areas, some of which are: ... > Lack of a inside-cockpit view (with instruments) this comes >in very useful when watching other drivers race F1GP and learn approximate >shift points and cornering speeds, Yes, I lament the absence of this in ICR. My SOP in WC/F1GP was to do a few laps with autobraking/shifting on. Then hop into Mansell's or Senna's car and watch the shift points and speeds they maintained. Then go back and work on my car with the helps off. Also helpful for tweaking your settings as you can compare top speeds, etc. A couple more: Better framerate (expected as ICR has the far superior graphics detail) Formula 1 (hey, my bias :-)) For all of ICR's advantages, I just haven't gotten into it as much as WC/F1GP. I've played ICR a decent amount, but have never considered a championship season. I did at least 3 with WC/F1GP. Another vote for having both on your HD. Dave

Certainly no arguement on this. Papyrus appaerntly refuses to address this as a problem. I guess they know how their program should be formatted, better than the users. THis should point to how realistic ICR is. Since when does everyone get to practice with Nigel, Paul Tracy or Emmo. We are supposed to find these things out for our selves. I personaly find this one of the fun aspects of ICR. I never did go for the "free ride" option in F1GP. Absolutely no arguement here. F1GP (if I remember correctly) was intended to be used with the steering help on. After many complaints they allowed the user to re-define more aspects of the steering control (lock is one example). Still... I think steering help (then the OPTIONS MENU) is intended to be on *UNLESS* you have a steering wheel device. THis is what the Steering Help-> OFF was supposed to be for. You use a j-stick... Leave it on. I use alot of the keyboard keys in ICR for control. To be exact they are programed with/thru my WCS II. I notice no problems. I'm sure if you are trying to control ICR with keyboard only, there will be problems. The one undeniable advantage of ICR over F1GP, is the modeling physics used for driving/racing the car around the track. ICR uses more actual physics (this is one of the things that made INDY 500 such a big hit). Basicly totaly lacking in F1GP as far as I can tell. If not totaly lacking, then certainly greatly reduce from what it probably should be. We all have them... Pro & Con...

One more point about the World Circuit v. ICR debate: It's a lot easier to get going on World Circuit, possibly because it IS less realistic. I've been able to do decent laps on a circuit I haven't practiced in a while on WC, while I still have trouble turning clean laps at Laguna Seca running ICR. I'm sure that Indycars are difficult to drive at Laguna Seca, and that the simulator is accurately modeling this. But WC is more fun in these circumstances. Mark -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Hewlett-Packard Little Falls Site #include <disclaimer.h> Wilmington, DE 19808 #define OPINIONS mine

I've been waiting for someone to mention this, but know one has. I find that the near empty fuel tank condition of WC's pre-race practice session is ludicrous. Before refueling came back this year, all F1 teams ran the morning warm up on full, or nearly full, fuel loads (unless they wanted to show off). By running the pre-race practice on such a light load, you are given absolutely ZERO opportunity to experience what the car will feel like on full tanks until the actual start of the race. I can't comment on ICR because my paultry little 386SX w/ 4MB RAM would choke. However, from what I've seen and been told, you can put as much fuel in the car as you please anytime you are in the pits. Comments? -- ****************************************************************************** Bill Mette | "People are personally responsible for keeping themselves ******************************************************************************

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>I've been waiting for someone to mention this, but know one has. I find >that the near empty fuel tank condition of WC's pre-race practice session >is ludicrous. Before refueling came back this year, all F1 teams ran the >morning warm up on full, or nearly full, fuel loads (unless they wanted >to show off). > By running the pre-race practice on such a light load, you are >given absolutely ZERO opportunity to experience what the car will feel >like on full tanks until the actual start of the race. I can't comment >on ICR because my paultry little 386SX w/ 4MB RAM would choke. However, >from what I've seen and been told, you can put as much fuel in the car as >you please anytime you are in the pits.

I agree! It's almost *** that they deceive you like that. You set the car up to perfection and then whomp you start the race and go off on the first corner because it suddenly doesn't handle "properly" anymore. Of course you learn to compensate after getting to know WC. I have a suspicion. Perhaps they took a shortcut when programming and decided to hard code the cars weight during practice to what it would be in Qualifying. i.e. almost empty of fuel. But since they do need the code for constantly dropping fuel load in the race I dunno why they'd do that. Oh well... -- Max Behara Molly: "DS+MC" Bt+W C 1.3 X+++ L W- C+ I+++ T+ H+ S+ V+ P- E- A+ "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore Ayrton Senna (1960-1994) Roland Ratzenberger (1962-1994)

With ICR you can fuel your car to any amount before, practice, qual, pre-race practice or before the race. You can start with a lighter load & get a quick jump on the field. You will have to pit before everyone else thought :-) This was shown VERY will in a ICR h2h modem race I had with a friend. I out qualified & out practiced him. Then in the race he was anywhere from 5-2 secs per lap faster (in Hew Hampshire). Finially I realized that he must have started with a lighter fuel load. Sure enough, in a few laps I took the lead as he went in to pit. I was laughing pretty good on that one. It does show to some extent how realistic ICR is. >-- >****************************************************************************** >Bill Mette | "People are personally responsible for keeping themselves >******************************************************************************

> >Lack of a save feature at > >any point other than in the Championship is really poor > Certainly no arguement on this. Papyrus appaerntly refuses to address this > as a problem. I guess they know how their program should be formatted, better > than the users. I think of this as the anti-save game cheat device. In a game like UFO I will save before every move incase something bad happens - then I can go back again. Not being able to save mid-game stops this. At least in ICR you can hit Shift-R to start again instantly. I have absolutely no idea how anyone can play F1GP or ICR without a joystick or wheel. You have to be able to gently feed the throttle out of corners (like that hairpin at Portland) in ICR, as well as apply brakes with some control. I can't see how you can do this with a keyboard. Still lots of people seem to do it! BTW I use a CH FSPro joystick (and used a CH FS joystic before that). My worse problem is getting used to not over-controlling when I jump into the***pit after a while of not playing ICR. I turned off steering and traction help off in F1GP early on. I hated the fact you couldn't spin up the wheels under acceleration and how the car seemed to stick to the road. I think F1GP feels much more realistic with all of this stuff turned off (nowhere near as good as ICR though). Amen - and in addition you see the car body move around which is good feedback. The gradual onset of tyre squeal in ICR is also very useful in determining when you are just starting to lose traction. I love sliding the car around corners on the edge of control, ICR feels really good when you are doing this. As I mentioned above I think that turning off steering help etc makes the car feel more realistic in F1GP. You just have to watch how often the F1 drivers leave the track to see how difficult the cars are to drive (even before the 'safety' changes this year). And f1gp ii will pale in comparison with ICR 2 (whenever that comes out). I don't play f1gp except on slow machines. I greatly prefer ICR but I can only play it on a friend's DX2/66 local bus machine - anything slower just does not cut it (Well - a DX50 is OK). Bill.