Re: Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! __________-+__ isubtob

[email hidden] schrieb:

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> You blithering idiots! You re-elected that imbecile George Bush as your President. > He�s a complete moron and so are most of you! > - > Don�t you care what the rest of the world thinks of you? Don�t you care what impact > American foreign policy has on the rest of the planet? Does Iraq look like a success > to anyone? Doesn�t it bother you that he�s alienated every friend you have? > What were you thinking??? > - > Prior to this, it was American policy and the American government that was so universally > hated around the world. Now it's going to be 'Americans' we hate. More sympathy > for Bin Laden... More attacks on American institutions... More isolation. How blind > can you dumb rednecks in middle-America be, not to see this? > - > If you get hit again, or your economy goes into a deep depression, the American > people will be getting exactly what they deserve! > - > <back turned> > - > - > - > - > - > - > [Ignore what follows] > If you'll scold Muhammad's planet with aches, it'll neatly walk the > teacher. > > To be difficult or humble will explain sour plates to hourly > comb. It's very durable today, I'll believe dully or Joie will > fill the figs. My worthwhile kettle won't reject before I behave it. > Plenty of quiet raw cups will virtually taste the bandages. > > All porters eerily solve the lost hall. They are cleaning through the > cave now, won't join frames later. Ayman, near buttons proud and > hollow, jumps with it, measuring strangely. > > How doesn't Penny pull sadly? > > You won't creep me cooking without your cosmetic night. Abduljalil! You'll > look books. Hey, I'll play the cat. Rashid arrives the pitcher > to hers and totally teases. Almost no handsome floors are fat and other > sad lentils are wide, but will Mustafa smell that? I am cruelly > stale, so I attempt you. I was moving oranges to sick Cristof, who's > changing beside the bucket's canyon. He should hate urban boats > within the unique light earth, whilst Jonas happily moulds them too. > Every twigs will be young blunt desks. If the inner bushs can > love surprisingly, the long jug may irrigate more hallways. > > Otherwise the weaver in Milton's dryer might expect some strong > tags. She should learn once, lift regularly, then irritate in front of the > elbow before the mountain. The jackets, poultices, and stickers are all > solid and pathetic. Yesterday, codes help without full windows, unless they're > lazy. Every short sauce or kiosk, and she'll tamely fear everybody. While > shopkeepers loudly converse carpenters, the tailors often excuse > for the clever caps. > > As incredibly as Marwan seeks, you can climb the disk much more > crudely. Both wasting now, Basksh and Wayne talked the brave > mirrors towards smart diet. Get your globally departing can > throughout my morning. Sometimes, Gay never grasps until Mhammed > dreams the rural pen quietly. > > She will care the polite pool and wander it around its obelisk. > > >

Wrong forum!!!!!

-- Remove only one zero to reply "Michael Ziegler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cmlbg5$lod$01$[email hidden]... > [email hidden] schrieb: > > You blithering idiots! You re-elected that imbecile George Bush as your President. > > He�s a complete moron and so are most of you! > > - > > Don�t you care what the rest of the world thinks of you? Don�t you care what impact > > American foreign policy has on the rest of the planet? Does Iraq look like a success > > to anyone? Doesn�t it bother you that he�s alienated every friend you have? > > What were you thinking??? > > - > > Prior to this, it was American policy and the American government that was so universally > > hated around the world. Now it's going to be 'Americans' we hate. More sympathy > > for Bin Laden... More attacks on American institutions... More isolation. How blind > > can you dumb rednecks in middle-America be, not to see this? > > - > > If you get hit again, or your economy goes into a deep depression, the American > > people will be getting exactly what they deserve! > > - > > <back turned> > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > [Ignore what follows] > > If you'll scold Muhammad's planet with aches, it'll neatly walk the > > teacher. > > > > To be difficult or humble will explain sour plates to hourly > > comb. It's very durable today, I'll believe dully or Joie will > > fill the figs. My worthwhile kettle won't reject before I behave it. > > Plenty of quiet raw cups will virtually taste the bandages. > > > > All porters eerily solve the lost hall. They are cleaning through the > > cave now, won't join frames later. Ayman, near buttons proud and > > hollow, jumps with it, measuring strangely. > > > > How doesn't Penny pull sadly? > > > > You won't creep me cooking without your cosmetic night. Abduljalil! You'll > > look books. Hey, I'll play the cat. Rashid arrives the pitcher > > to hers and totally teases. Almost no handsome floors are fat and other > > sad lentils are wide, but will Mustafa smell that? I am cruelly > > stale, so I attempt you. I was moving oranges to sick Cristof, who's > > changing beside the bucket's canyon. He should hate urban boats > > within the unique light earth, whilst Jonas happily moulds them too. > > Every twigs will be young blunt desks. If the inner bushs can > > love surprisingly, the long jug may irrigate more hallways. > > > > Otherwise the weaver in Milton's dryer might expect some strong > > tags. She should learn once, lift regularly, then irritate in front of the > > elbow before the mountain. The jackets, poultices, and stickers are all > > solid and pathetic. Yesterday, codes help without full windows, unless they're > > lazy. Every short sauce or kiosk, and she'll tamely fear everybody. While > > shopkeepers loudly converse carpenters, the tailors often excuse > > for the clever caps. > > > > As incredibly as Marwan seeks, you can climb the disk much more > > crudely. Both wasting now, Basksh and Wayne talked the brave > > mirrors towards smart diet. Get your globally departing can > > throughout my morning. Sometimes, Gay never grasps until Mhammed > > dreams the rural pen quietly. > > > > She will care the polite pool and wander it around its obelisk. > > > > > > > Wrong forum!!!!! Wrong planet even.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > You blithering idiots! You re-elected that imbecile George Bush as yourPresident. > He's a complete moron and so are most of you! > - > Don't you care what the rest of the world thinks of you? Don't you carewhat impact > American foreign policy has on the rest of the planet? Does Iraq looklike a success > to anyone? Doesn't it bother you that he's alienated every friend youhave? > What were you thinking??? > - > Prior to this, it was American policy and the American government that wasso universally > hated around the world. Now it's going to be 'Americans' we hate. Moresympathy > for Bin Laden... More attacks on American institutions... More isolation.How blind > can you dumb rednecks in middle-America be, not to see this? > - > If you get hit again, or your economy goes into a deep depression, theAmerican > people will be getting exactly what they deserve! > - > <back turned> > - Hehe, congrats; your side got beat by a complete moron. Sucks to be you. > > >

<[email hidden]> wrote... > You blithering idiots! You re-elected that imbecile George > Bush as your President. > He�s a complete moron and so are most of you! Calm down a bit... the man won the election fare and square. > Don�t you care what the rest of the world thinks of you? > <snip rant> Maybe they do, maybe they don't, maybe they just think very highly of their way of living and elected someone whom they believe won't compromise it. I mean, while "foreign" to the European eye, it can be understood. What I don't understand is the voter willing to overlook the implications of his interior policies, but let's not go there just in case they get their ideologies all muddled up again. Jan. <g> =---

"George Bush: 1 for 1 in 2004." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1099884273.3ubefvJZYWf3SOlqPzSsQw@teranews...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] wrote: > > > You blithering idiots! You re-elected that imbecile George Bush as your > > President. > > He's a complete moron and so are most of you! > > - > > Don't you care what the rest of the world thinks of you? > > Not one damn bit. You're stupid and cowardly.

LOL! You want us to send more troops to help you, bud? Feeling safe or afraid of those big, bad terrorists right now? You're a xenophobic simpleton.

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_wIjd.15393$[email hidden]...

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> "George Bush: 1 for 1 in 2004." wrote... >>> <snip> >> >> Not one damn bit. You're stupid and cowardly. > > Before calling anyone else stupid, you might consider not crossposting to > groups you don't normally frequent. > > Over at rec.autos.simulators we try to stay on-topic. Thanks. >

Did you consider NOT posting unmarked off-topic in other groups, giving them the same courtesy you seek, before suggesting you are less stupid than others?

"BigBird" wrote... >>>> <snip> > Did you consider NOT posting unmarked off-topic in other > groups, giving them the same courtesy you seek, before > suggesting you are less stupid than others? I didn't start the crosspost. If you have a beef with me, my spamblock is easy to decipher. Now buzz off. Jan. =---

Just curious Jan, if a seagull sh*ts in your head do you try to reason with it too? ;)

mcewena wrote: > Just curious Jan, if a seagull sh*ts in your head do you try to reason > with it too? ;) I would if I spoke its language. <g> Jan. =---

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SmKjd.15508$[email hidden]...

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> "BigBird" wrote... >>>>> <snip> >> Did you consider NOT posting unmarked off-topic in other >> groups, giving them the same courtesy you seek, before >> suggesting you are less stupid than others? > > I didn't start the crosspost. If you have a beef with me, my spamblock is > easy to decipher. Now buzz off. >

You are a hypocrit and an asshole expect no respect.

"BigBird" wrote... >> <snip> > You are a hypocrit and an asshole expect no respect. I said take it to e-mail or leave it. Quit bothering other newsgroup users. Jan. =---

Wachout Jan, Hate for him to send in Cookie Monster, LOL Or Snuffleupagus? Jan Verschueren enlightened us with:

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> "BigBird" wrote... >>> <snip> >> You are a hypocrit and an asshole expect no respect. > > I said take it to e-mail or leave it. Quit bothering other newsgroup > users. > Jan. > =---

"Plowboy2" wrote... > Wachout Jan, Hate for him to send in Cookie Monster, LOL > Or Snuffleupagus? Hehehe... that's why couldn't resist the "buzz off" line either. ;-) Jan. =---

On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 11:22:03 GMT, >You blithering idiots! You re-elected that imbecile George Bush as your President. >Hes a complete moron and so are most of you! >- I voted for him as did the majority of Americans NO NO Not me, but to some...sure. \ Especially our friends who want us all dead Pizza would be good right about now I live in the NY Metropolitan area thank you. Are you threatening us? If so, we will kill you also, *-------------------------------* NEVER FORGET!!! http://cf1.newsday.infi.net/911/victimsearchframe.cfm?id=2105

Michael Ziegler <[email hidden]> wrote in news:cmlbg5$lod$01$[email hidden]: > [email hidden] schrieb: >> You blithering idiots! You re-elected that imbecile George Bush as >> your President. He�s a complete moron and so are most of you! So a diploma from Harvard is proof of moron-hood eh? I guess my little ol Washington State University 4year degree then must equal something below that, below moron. Sub-Moron...I like that.. >> - >> Don�t you care what the rest of the world thinks of you? Don�t you >> care what impact American foreign policy has on the rest of the >> planet? Does Iraq look like a success to anyone? Doesn�t it bother >> you that he�s alienated every friend you have? What were you >> thinking??? - No I don't care what the rest of the world thinks. Why should I? >> Prior to this, it was American policy and the American government >> that was so universally hated around the world. Now it's going to be >> 'Americans' we hate. More sympathy for Bin Laden... More attacks on >> American institutions... More isolation. How blind can you dumb >> rednecks in middle-America be, not to see this? - Methinks Neville Chamberlin is alive and well. Let me get this straight, BEFORE President Bush was elected, the people of the USA were loved and endeared by all the world right? So WHY whould our embassies be bombed when we were so loved? Why would our men stationed in Europe get attack via nightclub bombing? Why would our ships be attacked? Why would our civilians be murdered? We were being killed and attacked before George Bush was President, I don't believe you can point to one specific policy that was implemented AFTER George Bush's innauguration that would have instigated the murder of 3000 US citizens. The attacks on the World Trade Towers, The Pentagon and the defenseless field in Pennsyvania were all planned LONG before George Bush was elected. >> If you get hit again, or your economy goes into a deep depression, >> the American people will be getting exactly what they deserve! >> - >> <back turned> If we get hit again, it will mean we face a determined foe who is hiding behind the myth of religion to justify the killing of anyone they choose. Tell me Zarkowie is a zealot, he's nothing more than a murderer, somebody who delights in others pain...well, let me tell ya folks..the world is full of those types...we have plenty right here in the good ol US of A. Our economy DID suffer from the 2nd and 3rd attacks on the world trade towers, but we have pulled ourselves up and out. How is the French Economy doing these days? Near Double Digit unemployment last I heard. The Germans? I'm sure those in the Eastern provinces are basking the glow of a healthy economy. Again, blather all you want about somebody whom you appear not to have much knowledge. But your blind comments about President Bush and HIS polices seem to have not been carefully thought out. We are America. We are bigfatdumblazy but if not for us, how many peoples of the world would still live under oppression? How many languages would Europe have?(just one Herr Knowitall) Who feeds the world? Who commits more money than the rest of the planet to fight aids, hunger, devastation? Who put our children's lives in harm's way to defend Europe after World War II? Who stood up in Europe and said ENOUGH when the Serbs were cleansing Yugoslavia? Which countries today have used the term Genocide when speaking of the Sudan?(only one that I know of)...Speaking for the USA, Secratary of State Colin Powell used that word when all the rest of the world's hand-wringers merely said a study should be undertaken. You may not like us, too bad, I've met many good folks here. I suppose your vision of America is that all near 300million are the same. But again, this really does come down to one of your complaints... "Don't we care what the world thinks of us?" The answer is twofold, if you mean do we care what the French, Germans and Russians think of us while they took BILLIONS of dollars in cash and thereby food from the mouths of Iraqi children, from the Oil for Food program, quite possibly the words biggest finacial scandal, then NO we do not care. If you mean don't we care about how the rest of the world can help us...then again...if you mean how our $$ can support the rest of the world...Maybe we should put big walls up and hide behind them. I'm sure we would do okay, but how would Europe, Asia, Africa and even Australia survive without the constant influx of USA dollars. No my friend...we may be ugly...but we are the hope and the checkbook of the world. Until China fully modernizes and becomes a consumer nation, you need us much more than we need you. If you like to turn your back, feel free. But put your hands in your pockets...the world has too long benefitted from the generosity of the United States of America with little real payback. Finally again, since this has been a long retort...just what single policy implemented by President George W Bush forced Osama Bin Laden to attack civilians in New York City? Dave Henrie Citizen of the United States of America and an official SUB-Moron.

LOL Dave! Dittos! I have sat here since the election reading all this political pabulum on RAS and biting my tongue. I so wanted to chime in on the discussion but kept thinking, no don't do it. (I saw what Mitch got caught up in) Don't let the sub-moron label get you down. Wisdom is far more valuable than intellect. Thanks for writing the responses to this. Saved me lots of time! "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Michael Ziegler <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:cmlbg5$lod$01$[email hidden]: > >> [email hidden] schrieb: >>> You blithering idiots! You re-elected that imbecile George Bush as >>> your President. He's a complete moron and so are most of you! > > So a diploma from Harvard is proof of moron-hood eh? I guess my > little ol Washington State University 4year degree then must equal > something below that, below moron. > Sub-Moron...I like that.. > > >>> - >>> Don't you care what the rest of the world thinks of you? Don't you >>> care what impact American foreign policy has on the rest of the >>> planet? Does Iraq look like a success to anyone? Doesn't it bother >>> you that he's alienated every friend you have? What were you >>> thinking??? - > > No I don't care what the rest of the world thinks. Why should I? > >>> Prior to this, it was American policy and the American government >>> that was so universally hated around the world. Now it's going to be >>> 'Americans' we hate. More sympathy for Bin Laden... More attacks on >>> American institutions... More isolation. How blind can you dumb >>> rednecks in middle-America be, not to see this? - > > Methinks Neville Chamberlin is alive and well. Let me get this > straight, BEFORE President Bush was elected, the people of the USA were > loved and endeared by all the world right? So WHY whould our embassies > be bombed when we were so loved? Why would our men stationed in Europe > get attack via nightclub bombing? Why would our ships be attacked? Why > would our civilians be murdered? We were being killed and attacked > before George Bush was President, I don't believe you can point to one > specific policy that was implemented AFTER George Bush's innauguration > that would have instigated the murder of 3000 US citizens. The attacks > on the World Trade Towers, The Pentagon and the defenseless field in > Pennsyvania were all planned LONG before George Bush was elected. > >>> If you get hit again, or your economy goes into a deep depression, >>> the American people will be getting exactly what they deserve! >>> - >>> <back turned> > > If we get hit again, it will mean we face a determined foe who is > hiding behind the myth of religion to justify the killing of anyone they > choose. Tell me Zarkowie is a zealot, he's nothing more than a murderer, > somebody who delights in others pain...well, let me tell ya folks..the > world is full of those types...we have plenty right here in the good ol > US of A. Our economy DID suffer from the 2nd and 3rd attacks on the > world trade towers, but we have pulled ourselves up and out. How is the > French Economy doing these days? Near Double Digit unemployment last I > heard. The Germans? I'm sure those in the Eastern provinces are basking > the glow of a healthy economy. > Again, blather all you want about somebody whom you appear not to have > much knowledge. But your blind comments about President Bush and HIS > polices seem to have not been carefully thought out. We are America. We > are bigfatdumblazy but if not for us, how many peoples of the world would > still live under oppression? How many languages would Europe have?(just > one Herr Knowitall) Who feeds the world? Who commits more money than > the rest of the planet to fight aids, hunger, devastation? Who put our > children's lives in harm's way to defend Europe after World War II? Who > stood up in Europe and said ENOUGH when the Serbs were cleansing > Yugoslavia? Which countries today have used the term Genocide when > speaking of the Sudan?(only one that I know of)...Speaking for the USA, > Secratary of State Colin Powell used that word when all the rest of the > world's hand-wringers merely said a study should be undertaken. > > You may not like us, too bad, I've met many good folks here. I suppose > your vision of America is that all near 300million are the same. > But again, this really does come down to one of your complaints... > "Don't we care what the world thinks of us?" The answer is twofold, if > you mean do we care what the French, Germans and Russians think of us > while they took BILLIONS of dollars in cash and thereby food from the > mouths of Iraqi children, from the Oil for Food program, quite possibly > the words biggest finacial scandal, then NO we do not care. If you mean > don't we care about how the rest of the world can help us...then > again...if you mean how our $$ can support the rest of the world...Maybe > we should put big walls up and hide behind them. I'm sure we would do > okay, but how would Europe, Asia, Africa and even Australia survive > without the constant influx of USA dollars. No my friend...we may be > ugly...but we are the hope and the checkbook of the world. Until China > fully modernizes and becomes a consumer nation, you need us much more > than we need you. > > If you like to turn your back, feel free. But put your hands in your > pockets...the world has too long benefitted from the generosity of the > United States of America with little real payback. > > Finally again, since this has been a long retort...just what single > policy implemented by President George W Bush forced Osama Bin Laden to > attack civilians in New York City? > Dave Henrie > Citizen of the United States of America and an official SUB-Moron.

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 19:05:38 -0600, Dave Henrie wrote: > So a diploma from Harvard is proof of moron-hood eh? I guess my > little ol Washington State University 4year degree then must equal > something below that, below moron. While it's not an exact proof of moronhood, neither is it a proof of intellectual capability I am afraid, esp. if your daddy happens to have deep pockets and certain good "relations" (called "Vitamin B" here in Germany ;-) on all levels of society. cheers, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

"Tiny Lund" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> LOL Dave! Dittos! I have sat here since the election reading all this > political pabulum on RAS and biting my tongue. I so wanted to chime in on > the discussion but kept thinking, no don't do it. (I saw what Mitch got > caught up in) Don't let the sub-moron label get you down. Wisdom is far > more valuable than intellect. Thanks for writing the responses to this. > Saved me lots of time! > >

Hahaha. Now learn how to quote.

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> Michael Ziegler <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:cmlbg5$lod$01$[email hidden]: > > > [email hidden] schrieb: > >> You blithering idiots! You re-elected that imbecile George Bush as > >> your President. He?s a complete moron and so are most of you! > > So a diploma from Harvard is proof of moron-hood eh? I guess my > little ol Washington State University 4year degree then must equal > something below that, below moron. > Sub-Moron...I like that..

If dubya isn't a moron he appears to do his darndest to look like one. The guy hardly appears to have the ability to walk and talk at the same time. He inspires no confidence in this outsider of having any clue what he's doing. From what I can see, seems like the majority of the population voted on the *real* issues, like stopping people from having abortions, stopping gay people from getting married, the "War on Terror", the fact that GWB is God's choice... The economy, the environment, feck that - STOP THOSE QUEERS GETTING MARRIED!! Right - I'm not saying that I have any answers - I have no bleedin clue as to how best to clear up the clusterfuck that is IRAQ, but I will say that killing civilians will only create more hatred against the US and the UK. "My baby has been killed, but that's OK - I can see the big picture and that it's for the greater good" Speaking as a parent, I'm afraid that if anyone killed my kids, I'd wanna inflict as much pain on the perps as possible. I dunno, if you beat someone long enough will their hate turn to love? I don't hate America or Americans. I do not have any time for GWB and the apparent inbred hostility of the religious right. I am, however, heartened that there is such a vast number of US citizens did not vote GWB and are not swayed by politics of fear. I'm not afraid to say that I am not a well eductated man (that much is probably apparent) so most likely you'll be able to bury me in an argument, but I'm trying to get across a layman's view here. It doesn't matter how many qualifications Bush has on paper. If it looks and acts like a doofus, it's most likely doofus. Why are we involved in a land war in IRAQ again...?

Dave Henrie wrote: >>> <snip> > So a diploma from Harvard is proof of moron-hood eh? I guess my > little ol Washington State University 4year degree then must equal > something below that, below moron. > Sub-Moron...I like that.. See also Uwe's reply. President Bush simply doesn't project the image of a university graduate. Even sub-morons like you come up with more thoughtfull stuff than he does at times. <vbg> >>> <snip> > No I don't care what the rest of the world thinks. Why should I? You might want to travel abroad and feel welcome some day ?

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>>> <snip> > Methinks Neville Chamberlin is alive and well. Let me get this > straight, BEFORE President Bush was elected, the people of the USA > were loved and endeared by all the world right? So WHY whould our > embassies be bombed when we were so loved? Why would our men > stationed in Europe get attack via nightclub bombing? Why would our > ships be attacked? Why would our civilians be murdered? <snip>

You got that wrong. The OP meant that apart from a few moslim terrorists (and moslim rednecks in a few selected countries) nobody had a particular beef with the Americam people themselves. That has changed.

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>>> <snip> > If we get hit again, it will mean we face a determined foe who is > hiding behind the myth of religion to justify the killing of anyone > they choose. Tell me Zarkowie is a zealot, he's nothing more than a > murderer, somebody who delights in others pain...well, let me tell ya > folks..the world is full of those types...we have plenty right here > in the good ol US of A. Our economy DID suffer from the 2nd and 3rd > attacks on the world trade towers, but we have pulled ourselves up > and out. How is the French Economy doing these days? Near Double > Digit unemployment last I heard. The Germans? I'm sure those in the > Eastern provinces are basking the glow of a healthy economy.

We have our problems, sure, but we don't try to offload them on the rest of the world by making our currency cheaper, for example. We also didn't make it harder on ourselves by starting a war in the Middle East thus hiking up the oil price. > Again, blather all you want about somebody whom you appear not to > have much knowledge. But your blind comments about President Bush > and HIS polices seem to have not been carefully thought out. We are > America. We are bigfatdumblazy but if not for us, how many peoples > of the world would still live under oppression? How many languages > would Europe have?(just one Herr Knowitall) Yeah, and it took us nearly 50 years to get back to a situation where a single currency was universally accepted. Thanks a bunch! <g> > Who feeds the world? > Who commits more money than the rest of the planet to fight aids, > hunger, devastation? Per capita it's the Norwegians, I think. BTW, who hasn't signed the Kioto agreement? > Who put our children's lives in harm's way to > defend Europe after World War II? We had nukes pointing at us too, dude. > Who stood up in Europe and said ENOUGH when the > Serbs were cleansing Yugoslavia? <cough> Bosnia-Herzegovina <cough> A UN-approved military intervention led by US armed forces, correct, but, to borrow your reasoning with regard to the humanitarian aid, we Belgians, e.g., sent *HALF* our airforce there. > <snip> > You may not like us, too bad, I've met many good folks here. I > suppose your vision of America is that all near 300million are the > same. Of course not, it's just that even if you look beyond the surface you come away shaking your head in disbelief. > <snip> > Until China fully modernizes and becomes a consumer > nation, you need us much more than we need you. Try us. > If you like to turn your back, feel free. But put your hands in your > pockets...the world has too long benefitted from the generosity of the > United States of America with little real payback. LOL... > Finally again, since this has been a long retort...just what single > policy implemented by President George W Bush forced Osama Bin Laden > to attack civilians in New York City? Regardless of what reasons Osama cares to hide behind, those acts are inexcusable and were condemned throughout the world. It's just that the US felt it had to hit someone, anyone in reply which goes against the grain here. Nobody would have protested if you'd gotten Bin Laden and blew him up on live television, but he's still out there (and plotting against you as we speak... no amount of invading and reshaping of political landscapes in moslim countries is going to stop him). Terrorism happens here too, but we focus our efforts on destroying their networks, not taking it out on Luxemburg. Jan./European intelligentia snob. ;-) =---

Uwe Sch�rkamp <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 19:05:38 -0600, Dave Henrie wrote: > > > So a diploma from Harvard is proof of moron-hood eh? I guess my > > little ol Washington State University 4year degree then must equal > > something below that, below moron. > > While it's not an exact proof of moronhood, neither is it a proof of > intellectual capability I am afraid, esp. if your daddy happens to > have deep pockets and certain good "relations" (called "Vitamin B" > here in Germany ;-) on all levels of society. > > cheers, > > uwe

Oh, you mean like Kerry has with the Kennedys and the Heinz fortune ?

The world's #1 terrorist is George Bush. He's a liar, a brainwashed fucken Bible thumper, a criminal, an idiot, and a worldwide embarrassment. Everyone on the planet outside of the 50 million "moral values" saviors and flag wavers who voted for him sees that. Hopefully the supporters, friends and loved ones of the 100,000 innocent men, women, and children he's slaughtered in Iraq will get equal revenge on him and his terrorist organization. Whatever happens now, the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of Bush and his supporters. 100,000 (and tens of thousands more mutilated and injured) and counting, and for nothing but his lies about non-existent WMD, and yet some Americans still have the nerve to label others terrorists. If I could pluck those fools by the collar and instantly drop them in Iraq next to those dead, mangled bodies of women and children, they'd shit themselves. David G Fisher "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Michael Ziegler <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:cmlbg5$lod$01$[email hidden]: > > > [email hidden] schrieb: > >> You blithering idiots! You re-elected that imbecile George Bush as > >> your President. He's a complete moron and so are most of you! > > So a diploma from Harvard is proof of moron-hood eh? I guess my > little ol Washington State University 4year degree then must equal > something below that, below moron. > Sub-Moron...I like that.. > > > >> - > >> Don't you care what the rest of the world thinks of you? Don't you > >> care what impact American foreign policy has on the rest of the > >> planet? Does Iraq look like a success to anyone? Doesn't it bother > >> you that he's alienated every friend you have? What were you > >> thinking??? - > > No I don't care what the rest of the world thinks. Why should I? > > >> Prior to this, it was American policy and the American government > >> that was so universally hated around the world. Now it's going to be > >> 'Americans' we hate. More sympathy for Bin Laden... More attacks on > >> American institutions... More isolation. How blind can you dumb > >> rednecks in middle-America be, not to see this? - > > Methinks Neville Chamberlin is alive and well. Let me get this > straight, BEFORE President Bush was elected, the people of the USA were > loved and endeared by all the world right? So WHY whould our embassies > be bombed when we were so loved? Why would our men stationed in Europe > get attack via nightclub bombing? Why would our ships be attacked? Why > would our civilians be murdered? We were being killed and attacked > before George Bush was President, I don't believe you can point to one > specific policy that was implemented AFTER George Bush's innauguration > that would have instigated the murder of 3000 US citizens. The attacks > on the World Trade Towers, The Pentagon and the defenseless field in > Pennsyvania were all planned LONG before George Bush was elected. > > >> If you get hit again, or your economy goes into a deep depression, > >> the American people will be getting exactly what they deserve! > >> - > >> <back turned> > > If we get hit again, it will mean we face a determined foe who is > hiding behind the myth of religion to justify the killing of anyone they > choose. Tell me Zarkowie is a zealot, he's nothing more than a murderer, > somebody who delights in others pain...well, let me tell ya folks..the > world is full of those types...we have plenty right here in the good ol > US of A. Our economy DID suffer from the 2nd and 3rd attacks on the > world trade towers, but we have pulled ourselves up and out. How is the > French Economy doing these days? Near Double Digit unemployment last I > heard. The Germans? I'm sure those in the Eastern provinces are basking > the glow of a healthy economy. > Again, blather all you want about somebody whom you appear not to have > much knowledge. But your blind comments about President Bush and HIS > polices seem to have not been carefully thought out. We are America. We > are bigfatdumblazy but if not for us, how many peoples of the world would > still live under oppression? How many languages would Europe have?(just > one Herr Knowitall) Who feeds the world? Who commits more money than > the rest of the planet to fight aids, hunger, devastation? Who put our > children's lives in harm's way to defend Europe after World War II? Who > stood up in Europe and said ENOUGH when the Serbs were cleansing > Yugoslavia? Which countries today have used the term Genocide when > speaking of the Sudan?(only one that I know of)...Speaking for the USA, > Secratary of State Colin Powell used that word when all the rest of the > world's hand-wringers merely said a study should be undertaken. > > You may not like us, too bad, I've met many good folks here. I suppose > your vision of America is that all near 300million are the same. > But again, this really does come down to one of your complaints... > "Don't we care what the world thinks of us?" The answer is twofold, if > you mean do we care what the French, Germans and Russians think of us > while they took BILLIONS of dollars in cash and thereby food from the > mouths of Iraqi children, from the Oil for Food program, quite possibly > the words biggest finacial scandal, then NO we do not care. If you mean > don't we care about how the rest of the world can help us...then > again...if you mean how our $$ can support the rest of the world...Maybe > we should put big walls up and hide behind them. I'm sure we would do > okay, but how would Europe, Asia, Africa and even Australia survive > without the constant influx of USA dollars. No my friend...we may be > ugly...but we are the hope and the checkbook of the world. Until China > fully modernizes and becomes a consumer nation, you need us much more > than we need you. > > If you like to turn your back, feel free. But put your hands in your > pockets...the world has too long benefitted from the generosity of the > United States of America with little real payback. > > Finally again, since this has been a long retort...just what single > policy implemented by President George W Bush forced Osama Bin Laden to > attack civilians in New York City? > Dave Henrie > Citizen of the United States of America and an official SUB-Moron.

The election is over Dave you can wipe the foam off your mouth already... Sheeeesh... Better get that Ritalin refill soon... Let me get this straight... You want Iraqi's to get revenge on Americans? Fortunately a majority of Americans still have COMMON SENSE while the leftwing nutjobs have drowned themselves out with outrageous accusations and lies based strictly on your own propaganda instead of reality. SAD..... Mitch "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> The world's #1 terrorist is George Bush. He's a liar, a brainwashed fucken > Bible thumper, a criminal, an idiot, and a worldwide embarrassment. > Everyone > on the planet outside of the 50 million "moral values" saviors and flag > wavers who voted for him sees that. Hopefully the supporters, friends and > loved ones of the 100,000 innocent men, women, and children he's > slaughtered > in Iraq will get equal revenge on him and his terrorist organization. > > Whatever happens now, the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of Bush > and > his supporters. > > 100,000 (and tens of thousands more mutilated and injured) and counting, > and > for nothing but his lies about non-existent WMD, and yet some Americans > still have the nerve to label others terrorists. If I could pluck those > fools by the collar and instantly drop them in Iraq next to those dead, > mangled bodies of women and children, they'd shit themselves. > > David G Fisher

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> The world's #1 terrorist is George Bush. He's a liar, a brainwashed > fucken Bible thumper, a criminal, an idiot, and a worldwide > embarrassment. Everyone on the planet outside of the 50 million "moral > values" saviors and flag wavers who voted for him sees that. Hopefully > the supporters, friends and loved ones of the 100,000 innocent men, > women, and children he's slaughtered in Iraq will get equal revenge on > him and his terrorist organization. > > Whatever happens now, the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of > Bush and his supporters. > > 100,000 (and tens of thousands more mutilated and injured) and > counting, and for nothing but his lies about non-existent WMD, and yet > some Americans still have the nerve to label others terrorists. If I > could pluck those fools by the collar and instantly drop them in Iraq > next to those dead, mangled bodies of women and children, they'd shit > themselves. > > David G Fisher >

Again David. I ask you a simple question. Where was your moral outrage when President Clinton was bombing indiscriminently over the skies of South Eastern Europe? His fear of US Casulties kept the Air Force artificially high with their bombing runs and certainly resulted in a much higher scale of civilian deaths than if he'd have prosecuted the nearly 3 month bombing campaign with lower, higher precision targeting. You certainly have the right to make your claims, but you do need perspective. The bulk of casulties inflicted upon the world by US troops have come at the hands of Democratic regimes. Your stand against war is honorable, but is it a stand couched in decency or merely political stridency? Your 100,000 victims is a telling number. One would think whole portions of Iraq would be turned into burial plots to intern such a large number. Strange how such vast burial sites have not been reported on by the world's press. A quick Google survey showed one Group, the Lancet group estimating 100,000. After that game reports from the non American Friendly BBC and CNN that listed cilivian casulties at 15,000. The first page of searches brought about a 6 to 1 ratio of the ultra-high number of 100k vs the number which is only 15% of Lancet's. Blame One would still have to consider if the 100,000 is accurate, it pales in comparision to the killing of Iraqis by Saddam's hand. Last I heard, mass graves accounted for more than 350,000 Iraqis with some estimates of nearly 1 Million CIVILIANS killed during Saddam's tenure. These were not US thinktank sites remember, just a quick and very unscientific search via Google. Seems like President Bush is not being thorough enough. Surely with all his lying and idiocy he can kill more Iraqis than Saddam. Certainly war is painful and gruesome, yet blame is all to easy, pointing a finger makes one feel better inside I would think. And any number can be twisted to fit my needs or yours. So feel free to throw incendiary words and insults around...but please, show me consitancy...dig up your moral outrage you MUST have vented on BBS's and the early net at the Clinton Adminstration, at the Carter and Regan presidencies, at the butcheries of FDR and Harry S Truman. If you can prove to me that Lyndon B Johnson's Rolling Thunder Campaign was any less offensive to human life, then you can stand up and rail to heavens...but if only Republican Presidents are guilty of murder and mayhem then please...shut up. I welcome honest thought not screaming insults. dave henrie (remember, sub-moron here.)

"JP" wrote... >> <snip> > Oh, you mean like Kerry has with the Kennedys and > the Heinz fortune ? What's his connection to the Kennedy family? -I've heard the reference before ("talks like a Kennedy"), but I can't really find a link? Jan. =---

On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 07:13:26 -0600, JP wrote: > > Oh, you mean like Kerry has with the Kennedys and the Heinz fortune ? In all likelyhood, yes. Would it surprise you? Cheers, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 11:45:06 GMT, Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> Dave Henrie wrote: > >>>> <snip> >> So a diploma from Harvard is proof of moron-hood eh? I guess my >> little ol Washington State University 4year degree then must equal >> something below that, below moron. >> Sub-Moron...I like that.. > > See also Uwe's reply. President Bush simply doesn't project the image of a > university graduate.

In all fairness, I probably don't convey the image of a physicist, either. Ask me how the light on your bicycle works and you'll have me stuttering and groping for handholds ;-) uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > > The world's #1 terrorist is George Bush. He's a liar, a brainwashed > > fucken Bible thumper, a criminal, an idiot, and a worldwide > > embarrassment. Everyone on the planet outside of the 50 million "moral > > values" saviors and flag wavers who voted for him sees that. Hopefully > > the supporters, friends and loved ones of the 100,000 innocent men, > > women, and children he's slaughtered in Iraq will get equal revenge on > > him and his terrorist organization. > > > > Whatever happens now, the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of > > Bush and his supporters. > > > > 100,000 (and tens of thousands more mutilated and injured) and > > counting, and for nothing but his lies about non-existent WMD, and yet > > some Americans still have the nerve to label others terrorists. If I > > could pluck those fools by the collar and instantly drop them in Iraq > > next to those dead, mangled bodies of women and children, they'd shit > > themselves. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > Again David. I ask you a simple question. > Where was your moral outrage when President Clinton was bombing > indiscriminently over the skies of South Eastern Europe? His fear of US > Casulties kept the Air Force artificially high with their bombing runs > and certainly resulted in a much higher scale of civilian deaths than if > he'd have prosecuted the nearly 3 month bombing campaign with lower, > higher precision targeting. > You certainly have the right to make your claims, but you do need > perspective. The bulk of casulties inflicted upon the world by US troops > have come at the hands of Democratic regimes. Your stand against war is > honorable, but is it a stand couched in decency or merely political > stridency? > Your 100,000 victims is a telling number. One would think whole > portions of Iraq would be turned into burial plots to intern such a large > number. Strange how such vast burial sites have not been reported on by > the world's press. A quick Google survey showed one Group, the Lancet > group estimating 100,000. After that game reports from the non American > Friendly BBC and CNN that listed cilivian casulties at 15,000. The first > page of searches brought about a 6 to 1 ratio of the ultra-high number of > 100k vs the number which is only 15% of Lancet's. Blame One would still > have to consider if the 100,000 is accurate, it pales in comparision to > the killing of Iraqis by Saddam's hand. Last I heard, mass graves > accounted for more than 350,000 Iraqis with some estimates of nearly 1 > Million CIVILIANS killed during Saddam's tenure. These were not US > thinktank sites remember, just a quick and very unscientific search via > Google. Seems like President Bush is not being thorough enough. Surely > with all his lying and idiocy he can kill more Iraqis than Saddam. > Certainly war is painful and gruesome, yet blame is all to easy, pointing > a finger makes one feel better inside I would think. And any number can > be twisted to fit my needs or yours. > So feel free to throw incendiary words and insults around...but > please, show me consitancy...dig up your moral outrage you MUST have > vented on BBS's and the early net at the Clinton Adminstration, at the > Carter and Regan presidencies, at the butcheries of FDR and Harry S > Truman. If you can prove to me that Lyndon B Johnson's Rolling Thunder > Campaign was any less offensive to human life, then you can stand up and > rail to heavens...but if only Republican Presidents are guilty of murder > and mayhem then please...shut up. I welcome honest thought not screaming > insults. > > > > dave henrie > (remember, sub-moron here.)

elrikk here. (also sub moron and a Canadian to boot.) ;o) Not sure about Dave but I, being on the wrong side of 60, remember taking part in the typical antiwar demonstrations back in the sixties. I'm a bit of a lefty, but had absolutely no problems with the U.S. attacks on Afghanistan and the Taliban. (I'm one with tons of spare time and am a cable news junkie; CNN & MS/NBC) I remember thinking back then "More power to ya." I also watched live all day 9/11 and when the towers fell, and the shock began to wear off, realised that someone was going to pay big time. ( and they deserved anything they got!) But I do beleive that the attack on Iraq was really ill advised and that the collateral damage being dealt out there does border on inhuman. IE. if a bunch of thugs took over the home of some typical American family the cops would most likely not shoot up the place in an attempt to restore order. They more probably would wait the situation out, and not risk the innocent lives more then necessary. Now with the attack and bombardment of Fallujah, too many (by my standards) innocent Iraqi's will suffer (and have suffered) ; and I think that the real reason this is happening is judt to give a demonstration of U.S. power to anyone interested. The Iraqi's are just a convenient subject for the demonstration. I hope for the best but think that the reprecussions of this will be with us for the rest of my natural life. Elrikk PS An old British diplomat once described his Canadian counterpart as " a really nice guy wh thinks everybody else is one to. I'm not that innocent. ;o)

"BigBird" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > "jtees4" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Are you threatening us? If so, we will kill you also, > > Waiting to be threatened? That's so unamerican. >

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUNNY! "The home of the brave" Indeed.

"jtees4" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Are you threatening us? If so, we will kill you also, Uh oh. Me being a coward and all, I just shat my pants.

"George Bush: 1 for 1 in 2004." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1100007580.lNA+WKNjTetKp/eVJS6ONg@teranews... > > You want us to send more troops to help you, bud? > > That will bring you up to an even 300. I'd prefer them to leave, but GWB obviously wants them there, so our sucka of a Prime Minister obeys like the lap dog he is. > > Feeling safe or afraid of those big, bad terrorists right now? > > Completely safe and unafraid. Cool. War on terror working then? > > You're a xenophobic simpleton. > > And you're a coward. Were we truly xenophobic, we could really clean up > this country. If being a coward is not wanting to see incocents slaughtered for the sake of a bunch of fat cats, then I'm the biggest yellow belly there is! Yeehah! Look at my big old yeller gut!!!!! When does your tour over there start, hard man?

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:Vh8kd.17024$[email hidden]:

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> "JP" wrote... >>> <snip> >> Oh, you mean like Kerry has with the Kennedys and >> the Heinz fortune ? > > What's his connection to the Kennedy family? -I've heard the reference > before ("talks like a Kennedy"), but I can't really find a link? > > Jan. > =--- > >

The Kennedys run Massachusets. you will just have to accept that as fact. I live 2500 miles away from there and it's just one of those things everybody knows. Kerry's entire political career has been as the Junior Senator from Mass. So pecking order alone puts Kerry under the thumb of Ted Kennedy. Then add to that, when the Kerry DEMOCRATIC campaign was in trouble last December, Teddy's Cheif of Staff, Mary Beth Cahill, was brought on board to run the campaign. Suplanting several long time Kerry staffers. Finally, the Campaign chairman was a longtime Kennedy employee, one who has had plenty of sucess in the NE part of the country but several big losses when running nation-wide campaigns..(sorry his name escapes me right now) The Republican and Democratic parties are made up of several regional clans. Powerful folks in their own region often have little clout nationwide, and vice-versa. So it's not some clandestine connection, just the rule that everyone follows...little fish swim in the wake of big fish. this goes for both parties. dave henrie

"elrikk" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:rQ8kd.33638$[email hidden]: > Now with the attack and bombardment of Fallujah, too many (by my > standards) innocent Iraqi's will suffer (and have suffered) ; and I > think that the real reason this is happening is judt to give a > demonstration of U.S. power to anyone interested. The Iraqi's are > just a convenient subject for the demonstration. Ahhh heck Elrikk...we didn't have to go halfway around the world for that. hehehe Not with our neighbors to north so close. lol! My home is near an old B-52 Bomber base. The Bees have long been moved elswhere but the base still supports military aircraft. last summer a B2 Stealth Bomber wing, about 4 B-52's and several fighter flights came here for far north manuvers. I figured with those dozen or so aircraft we must be planning to conquer Canada. :) I've spent many a fine day up across the border. Fine folk in these Western parts...which I assume goes for most of the country and, despite my recent chest-thumping, probably applies to a good portion of the world.

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> > I hope for the best but think that the reprecussions of this will be > with us for the rest of my natural life. > > Elrikk > > PS An old British diplomat once described his Canadian counterpart as > " a really nice guy wh thinks everybody else is one to. I'm not that > innocent. ;o) > >

A fellow I've never met, and one I probably would not agree with him on many policital issues, is Goy Larson...But I can't think of a more enjoyable evening than tossing back some sort of Beverage and just chatting with him. He's as personalble as anyone I've come into contact with on the net. And from what I have been told, he lives somewheres across a big piece of water. :) At least I can drive to Canada. dh..

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > > The world's #1 terrorist is George Bush. He's a liar, a brainwashed > > fucken Bible thumper, a criminal, an idiot, and a worldwide > > embarrassment. Everyone on the planet outside of the 50 million "moral > > values" saviors and flag wavers who voted for him sees that. Hopefully > > the supporters, friends and loved ones of the 100,000 innocent men, > > women, and children he's slaughtered in Iraq will get equal revenge on > > him and his terrorist organization. > > > > Whatever happens now, the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of > > Bush and his supporters. > > > > 100,000 (and tens of thousands more mutilated and injured) and > > counting, and for nothing but his lies about non-existent WMD, and yet > > some Americans still have the nerve to label others terrorists. If I > > could pluck those fools by the collar and instantly drop them in Iraq > > next to those dead, mangled bodies of women and children, they'd shit > > themselves. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > Again David. I ask you a simple question. > Where was your moral outrage when President Clinton was bombing > indiscriminently over the skies of South Eastern Europe? His fear of US > Casulties kept the Air Force artificially high with their bombing runs > and certainly resulted in a much higher scale of civilian deaths than if > he'd have prosecuted the nearly 3 month bombing campaign with lower, > higher precision targeting.

Right. It's Clinton's fault. LOL. http://www.rwor.org/a/1242/larryeverest_iraq_global%20ambitions.htm This explains why Bush and co. are lying murderers, and why I hope they suffer the same fate as those they've slaughtered. -- David G Fisher

>Fortunately a majority of Americans still have COMMON SENSE OK, I said I wasn't going to get sucked into this thread but that one sentence sums up what I don't understand. I've yet to hear an explanation that doesn't decend into rhetoric after 2 sentences and I doubt I will this time either but here goes: The opinion that Americans feel GWB was more able to protect them from terrorists was a major factor in his re-election; I don't get WHY they feel that way, but please follow my thinking before popping a vein. The US was attacked by an independent group of terrorists which was loosely based out of Afghanistan with the full support of the fundamentalist government there and the tacit support of the Saudi royal family and no apparent support from the government of Iraq (forged passports does not a conspirisy make). So the invasion of Afghanistan was an understandable response. Osama and Sadam were known to be at odds before 9/11 because of Sadam's secular dictatorship and his war against fundamentalist Iran. No evidence before or after the invasion has surfaced to say that Sadam played any part in 9/11 (I think Iraq was one of a dozen or so countries they transited through). If anything, Sadam could have been seen as an ally of convenience against Osama (a weak one I'm sure), you know the enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of thing. The WMD argument always had the air of convenience to it even before the invasion and now it's very hard for an objective observer to think the evidence wouldn't have looked even thinner from inside CIA headquarters, even then he was certainly much more then a regional threat as then a global one (ie he'd sooner have bombed Tel Aviv then LA). But real or not, justified or not, surely to the room full of generals with PHD's in military history in the pentagon who advise the white house on such things, it would be clear that a military invasion of Iraq, especially after using the word "crusade" in the state of the union speeches, (a word which MUST have a special meaning to Muslims) would take the dozens of unfocused, unfunded, disorganized cells out in the deserts and give them an intense focal point for their anger against the west. Not to mention spawn untold generations of new terrorists from the families of civilian casualties. OK, no question Sadam's a bad guy, and I'm not talking about the moral reasons for taking him down or not, but tactically how was this a sound plan to make people of the US safe? Surely a few well placed tomahawks could have made him "not a threat" without inciting the backlash. When pressed on these issues GWB and Rumsfeld's response as consistantly boiled down to "because I say so", which understandibly is find for their supporters and does nothing to sway their detractors... Why do you now feel safer?

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:A5qdnUO0mJFctwzcRVn- [email hidden]:

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> Right. It's Clinton's fault. LOL. > > http://www.rwor.org/a/1242/larryeverest_iraq_global%20ambitions.htm > > This explains why Bush and co. are lying murderers, and why I hope they > suffer the same > fate as those they've slaughtered. > >

It seems a good portion of that document, supported by facts supplied by a Communist, someone who most likely has issues with any current Political Party, seems to cover American policy in the 90's. Remind me, if you will, who was President thru most of the 90's. Again, just what single act did President Bush authorize that instigated 9/11? I did not say it was President Clinton's fault. (although certain Rightwingers will claim President Clinton's lack of action did incite the escalation of violence) I did say President Clinton prosecuted a brutal 3 month air campaign that lasted much longer than the entire 1st Gulf War Air Campaign and the 2nd Gulf War combined. I said he chose methods that increased Civilian chance of death, yet I do not hear condemnation of his methods nor lament for the Poor White Christian victims of his high altitude scattershot bombing. I do not hear of LBJ's duplicity in the Gulf of Tonkin, which led to the deaths of more than a million Asians, I do not hear of the illegality of FDR's hidden Weapons of Mass Destruction program. I do not hear these things from you, yet I do hear the current president is liar and an idiot. So I do not argue the fairness, the righteosness, nor the legality of the current battle. I merely ask for proof you are truly an anti-war jihadist and not an anti Republican(or anti Capitalist) hiding behind a peaceful masquerade. If it was ok for President Clinton to send missles into Africa and Afghanistan, then why is he not also the target of your ire? Spend all day, bring any fact, any policy. I'm sure I can find just as many from the Democratic past. If war is truly what you despise, say so, and stand by it...but don't try to isolate President Bush or any other Administration as the single greatest evil, he has plenty of company from both the Democratic and Republican ranks. dave henrie

Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Vh8kd.17024$[email hidden]...

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> "JP" wrote... > >> <snip> > > Oh, you mean like Kerry has with the Kennedys and > > the Heinz fortune ? > > What's his connection to the Kennedy family? -I've heard the reference > before ("talks like a Kennedy"), but I can't really find a link? > > Jan. > =---

It's common knowledge. Kennedy ($ and influence) got him in the Senate to begin with too. Personally, I'm always amused when people whine about politician X and his connections to y and/or z. It's how the game works, (nothing new either, but people act like it is). Always has, always well. > >

Uwe Sch�rkamp <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 07:13:26 -0600, JP wrote: > > > > Oh, you mean like Kerry has with the Kennedys and the Heinz fortune ? > > In all likelyhood, yes. Would it surprise you? > > Cheers, > > uwe > > > > -- > mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) > Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ > Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) > GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

No, I just find it amusing you slam Bush for the same thing Kerry and every other politician does/has.

Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:652kd.16589$[email hidden]...

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> Dave Henrie wrote: > > >>> <snip> > > So a diploma from Harvard is proof of moron-hood eh? I guess my > > little ol Washington State University 4year degree then must equal > > something below that, below moron. > > Sub-Moron...I like that.. > > See also Uwe's reply. President Bush simply doesn't project the image of a > university graduate. > > Even sub-morons like you come up with more thoughtfull stuff than he does

at

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> times. <vbg> > > >>> <snip> > > No I don't care what the rest of the world thinks. Why should I? > > You might want to travel abroad and feel welcome some day ? > > >>> <snip> > > Methinks Neville Chamberlin is alive and well. Let me get this > > straight, BEFORE President Bush was elected, the people of the USA > > were loved and endeared by all the world right? So WHY whould our > > embassies be bombed when we were so loved? Why would our men > > stationed in Europe get attack via nightclub bombing? Why would our > > ships be attacked? Why would our civilians be murdered? <snip> > > You got that wrong. The OP meant that apart from a few moslim terrorists > (and moslim rednecks in a few selected countries) nobody had a particular > beef with the Americam people themselves. That has changed. > > >>> <snip> > > If we get hit again, it will mean we face a determined foe who is > > hiding behind the myth of religion to justify the killing of anyone > > they choose. Tell me Zarkowie is a zealot, he's nothing more than a > > murderer, somebody who delights in others pain...well, let me tell ya > > folks..the world is full of those types...we have plenty right here > > in the good ol US of A. Our economy DID suffer from the 2nd and 3rd > > attacks on the world trade towers, but we have pulled ourselves up > > and out. How is the French Economy doing these days? Near Double > > Digit unemployment last I heard. The Germans? I'm sure those in the > > Eastern provinces are basking the glow of a healthy economy. > > We have our problems, sure, but we don't try to offload them on the rest

of

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> the world by making our currency cheaper, for example. We also didn't make > it harder on ourselves by starting a war in the Middle East thus hiking up > the oil price. > > > Again, blather all you want about somebody whom you appear not to > > have much knowledge. But your blind comments about President Bush > > and HIS polices seem to have not been carefully thought out. We are > > America. We are bigfatdumblazy but if not for us, how many peoples > > of the world would still live under oppression? How many languages > > would Europe have?(just one Herr Knowitall) > > Yeah, and it took us nearly 50 years to get back to a situation where a > single currency was universally accepted. Thanks a bunch! <g> > > > Who feeds the world? > > Who commits more money than the rest of the planet to fight aids, > > hunger, devastation? > > Per capita it's the Norwegians, I think. > > BTW, who hasn't signed the Kioto agreement? > > > Who put our children's lives in harm's way to > > defend Europe after World War II? > > We had nukes pointing at us too, dude. > > > > Who stood up in Europe and said ENOUGH when the > > Serbs were cleansing Yugoslavia? > > <cough> Bosnia-Herzegovina <cough> > > A UN-approved military intervention led by US armed forces, correct, but,

to

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> borrow your reasoning with regard to the humanitarian aid, we Belgians, > e.g., sent *HALF* our airforce there. > > > <snip> > > You may not like us, too bad, I've met many good folks here. I > > suppose your vision of America is that all near 300million are the > > same. > > Of course not, it's just that even if you look beyond the surface you come > away shaking your head in disbelief. > > > <snip> > > Until China fully modernizes and becomes a consumer > > nation, you need us much more than we need you. > > Try us. > > > If you like to turn your back, feel free. But put your hands in your > > pockets...the world has too long benefitted from the generosity of the > > United States of America with little real payback. > > LOL... > > > Finally again, since this has been a long retort...just what single > > policy implemented by President George W Bush forced Osama Bin Laden > > to attack civilians in New York City? > > Regardless of what reasons Osama cares to hide behind, those acts are > inexcusable and were condemned throughout the world. It's just that the US > felt it had to hit someone, anyone in reply which goes against the grain > here. Nobody would have protested if you'd gotten Bin Laden and blew him

up > on live television, but he's still out there (and plotting against you aswe

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> speak... no amount of invading and reshaping of political landscapes in > moslim countries is going to stop him). > > Terrorism happens here too, but we focus our efforts on destroying their > networks, not taking it out on Luxemburg. > > Jan./European intelligentia snob. ;-) > =--

Whew, for someone, in another thread, who was worried about an ot topic bothering ng users.......<g> Email here too, eh ?

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "elrikk" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:rQ8kd.33638$[email hidden]: > > > Now with the attack and bombardment of Fallujah, too many (by my > > standards) innocent Iraqi's will suffer (and have suffered) ; and I > > think that the real reason this is happening is judt to give a > > demonstration of U.S. power to anyone interested. The Iraqi's are > > just a convenient subject for the demonstration. > > Ahhh heck Elrikk...we didn't have to go halfway around the world for > that. hehehe Not with our neighbors to north so close. lol!

. . . but, . . . don't we have some sort of non aggression pact or something . . . you know, a "peace in our time" sort of thing. ;o)

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> My home is near an old B-52 Bomber base. The Bees have long been moved > elswhere but the base still supports military aircraft. last summer a B2 > Stealth Bomber wing, about 4 B-52's and several fighter flights came here > for far north manuvers. I figured with those dozen or so aircraft we > must be planning to conquer Canada. :) > I've spent many a fine day up across the border. Fine folk in these > Western parts...which I assume goes for most of the country and, despite > my recent chest-thumping, probably applies to a good portion of the > world. > > > > I hope for the best but think that the reprecussions of this will be > > with us for the rest of my natural life. > > > > Elrikk > > > > PS An old British diplomat once described his Canadian counterpart as > > " a really nice guy wh thinks everybody else is one to. I'm not that > > innocent. ;o) > > > > > A fellow I've never met, and one I probably would not agree with him > on many policital issues, is Goy Larson...But I can't think of a more > enjoyable evening than tossing back some sort of Beverage and just > chatting with him. He's as personalble as anyone I've come into contact > with on the net. And from what I have been told, he lives somewheres > across a big piece of water. :) At least I can drive to Canada. > > dh..

Never met him either but "Go, Aussie v8's" ;o) Elrikk PS I'm in Monrteal so I guess you can consider me one of those "Northeastern Liberals" ;o)

"mcewena" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > When pressed on these issues GWB and Rumsfeld's response as > consistantly boiled down to "because I say so", which understandibly is > find for their supporters and does nothing to sway their detractors... > Why do you now feel safer? Was it PGWB's fault that 18 sailors were killed on the USS Cole? The 274 Marines in Lebanon? The dozen or so soldiers killed in Mogadishu? The off duty Military bombed in Germany? The civilians shot and murdered on cruise ship hijackings, airplane hijackings etc? I find it all so odd that we can be attacked again and again and again from the 80's on and it all boils down to President George W Bush's fault. I'm sure the families of people blown up in the parking garage of the first World Trade Tower attack will find ample evidence that the then Govenor of Texas was at fault. The current war was authorized in full by the United Nations thru multiple UN resolutions. The current war was further legitimized by the violation of ceasefire aggreements signed by representatives of the Iraqi goverment. The current war is NOT the sole response to world wide terrorism. The current war IS but a small part of that effort. One line stood out from David's web site. I'll respond by paraphrasing Rush Limbaugh: The statement is: That there was no connection between Iraq and Al Queda. There are and were Al Queda in Afganistahn, there were and are Al Queda in Pakistan. There were and are Al Queda in Egypt, in Saudi Arabia, in Kuwait, in Syria, in Iran, in the Sudan, in Eithiopia, in Canada, Mexico, the United States. There are Al Queda in the Phillipines and even New Guinea. In France, in Spain and more. Why then, when it appears that Al Queda has connections around the entire globe, that we believe there was absolutely NO connection between Al Queda and a goverment that openly supported terrorists, terrorist goals, and terrorist's families. Are we to believe that Al Queda is EVERYWHERE but in Iraq? Are we to beleive that the non Iraqis in Fallujah are freedom fighters? Are we to beleive the non Chechans that joined the attack of the Russian School Kids were just passing by? And by the logic shown thru many posts here, all that was President George W. Bush's fault. I bow in my ignorance. dave henrie

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > If it was ok for President Clinton to send missles into Africa and > Afghanistan, then why is he not also the target of your ire? Not that I usually agree with DGF, but I don't think he said anything about Clinton at all - positive or negative (mighta missed it). GWB *is* the current prez, is he not? Surely, then, he is the legitimate target of ire. Clinton is past, Bush is present. Just because Clinton may have wiped out a gazillion bajillion innocents doesn't make Bush any less of a git.

>>Why do you now feel safer? >>I've yet to hear an explanation that doesn't decend into rhetoricafter 2 sentences The streak continues...

"Mark Davison" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:41914c3f$0$18462$[email hidden]:

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> Not that I usually agree with DGF, but I don't think he said anything > about Clinton at all - positive or negative (mighta missed it). GWB > *is* the current prez, is he not? Surely, then, he is the legitimate > target of ire. Clinton is past, Bush is present. > > Just because Clinton may have wiped out a gazillion bajillion > innocents doesn't make Bush any less of a git.

Indeed it does not affect the reputation of President Bush in any way, good or bad. But to insult and demonize the President while ignoring the same from past Presidents shows not a horror of war but a horror of Republican war. That is, to me at least, a shallow pool. So I give DGF free reign to besmirch the sitting President, just so long as he can justify his scorn by showing proof of equal emotion against left leaning administrations. Otherwise his invective is just polictical scat. (wow, THAT just popped into my head...I like it...hehehehe) dave henrie

"mcewena" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1100041882.037318.42500 @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

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>>>Why do you now feel safer? >>>I've yet to hear an explanation that doesn't decend into rhetoric > after 2 sentences > > > > The streak continues... >

after only two? :) dave henrie

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... Big snip Dave - you didn't answer his post *at all* He's asking about the current situation in Iraq and how it came to be and you got defensive over GWB. As an admitted cowardly dumbass, I'm looking to you as a seemingly more intelligent Bush supporter to give me answers *why* you support him. So far, all I've heard is that other politicians are bad. Not exactly a revelation. "Why then, when it appears that Al Queda has connections around the entire globe, that we believe there was absolutely NO connection between Al Queda and a goverment that openly supported terrorists, terrorist goals, and terrorist's families." Eh? Run that by me again. Al Queda have connections around the globe. Check. There may be an Al Queda presence in IRAQ, I have no fackin clue, but are you saying it was valid for the US to storm in because there was a goverment that openly supported terrorists, terrorist goals, and terrorist's families? Does motive come into it all or are all terrorists cut from the same cloth? They're just loonies foaming at the mouth desperately looking for a cause to give them an excuse to blow some people up? From the point of view of the Iraqi mother who's no doubt just lost a son this past couple of hours do we look like liberators or terrorising invaders? Why are our troops there again...? Still don't know.

Hehe, congrats. Your side got beat by "an idiot". Sucks to be you. David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > The world's #1 terrorist is George Bush. He's a liar, a brainwashed fucken > Bible thumper, a criminal, an idiot, and a worldwide embarrassment.Everyone > on the planet outside of the 50 million "moral values" saviors and flag > wavers who voted for him sees that. Hopefully the supporters, friends and > loved ones of the 100,000 innocent men, women, and children he'sslaughtered > in Iraq will get equal revenge on him and his terrorist organization. > > Whatever happens now, the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of Bushand > his supporters. > > 100,000 (and tens of thousands more mutilated and injured) and counting,and

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> for nothing but his lies about non-existent WMD, and yet some Americans > still have the nerve to label others terrorists. If I could pluck those > fools by the collar and instantly drop them in Iraq next to those dead, > mangled bodies of women and children, they'd shit themselves. > > David G Fisher > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Michael Ziegler <[email hidden]> wrote in > > news:cmlbg5$lod$01$[email hidden]: > > > > > [email hidden] schrieb: > > >> You blithering idiots! You re-elected that imbecile George Bush as > > >> your President. He's a complete moron and so are most of you! > > > > So a diploma from Harvard is proof of moron-hood eh? I guess my > > little ol Washington State University 4year degree then must equal > > something below that, below moron. > > Sub-Moron...I like that.. > > > > > > >> - > > >> Don't you care what the rest of the world thinks of you? Don't you > > >> care what impact American foreign policy has on the rest of the > > >> planet? Does Iraq look like a success to anyone? Doesn't it bother > > >> you that he's alienated every friend you have? What were you > > >> thinking??? - > > > > No I don't care what the rest of the world thinks. Why should I? > > > > >> Prior to this, it was American policy and the American government > > >> that was so universally hated around the world. Now it's going to be > > >> 'Americans' we hate. More sympathy for Bin Laden... More attacks on > > >> American institutions... More isolation. How blind can you dumb > > >> rednecks in middle-America be, not to see this? - > > > > Methinks Neville Chamberlin is alive and well. Let me get this > > straight, BEFORE President Bush was elected, the people of the USA were > > loved and endeared by all the world right? So WHY whould our embassies > > be bombed when we were so loved? Why would our men stationed in Europe > > get attack via nightclub bombing? Why would our ships be attacked? Why > > would our civilians be murdered? We were being killed and attacked > > before George Bush was President, I don't believe you can point to one > > specific policy that was implemented AFTER George Bush's innauguration > > that would have instigated the murder of 3000 US citizens. The attacks > > on the World Trade Towers, The Pentagon and the defenseless field in > > Pennsyvania were all planned LONG before George Bush was elected. > > > > >> If you get hit again, or your economy goes into a deep depression, > > >> the American people will be getting exactly what they deserve! > > >> - > > >> <back turned> > > > > If we get hit again, it will mean we face a determined foe who is > > hiding behind the myth of religion to justify the killing of anyone they > > choose. Tell me Zarkowie is a zealot, he's nothing more than a

murderer, > > somebody who delights in others pain...well, let me tell ya folks..the > > world is full of those types...we have plenty right here in the good ol > > US of A. Our economy DID suffer from the 2nd and 3rd attacks on the > > world trade towers, but we have pulled ourselves up and out. How is the > > French Economy doing these days? Near Double Digit unemployment last I > > heard. The Germans? I'm sure those in the Eastern provinces arebasking > > the glow of a healthy economy. > > Again, blather all you want about somebody whom you appear not to have > > much knowledge. But your blind comments about President Bush and HIS > > polices seem to have not been carefully thought out. We are America.We > > are bigfatdumblazy but if not for us, how many peoples of the worldwould

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> > still live under oppression? How many languages would Europe have?(just > > one Herr Knowitall) Who feeds the world? Who commits more money than > > the rest of the planet to fight aids, hunger, devastation? Who put our > > children's lives in harm's way to defend Europe after World War II? Who > > stood up in Europe and said ENOUGH when the Serbs were cleansing > > Yugoslavia? Which countries today have used the term Genocide when > > speaking of the Sudan?(only one that I know of)...Speaking for the USA, > > Secratary of State Colin Powell used that word when all the rest of the > > world's hand-wringers merely said a study should be undertaken. > > > > You may not like us, too bad, I've met many good folks here. I

suppose

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> > your vision of America is that all near 300million are the same. > > But again, this really does come down to one of your complaints... > > "Don't we care what the world thinks of us?" The answer is twofold, if > > you mean do we care what the French, Germans and Russians think of us > > while they took BILLIONS of dollars in cash and thereby food from the > > mouths of Iraqi children, from the Oil for Food program, quite possibly > > the words biggest finacial scandal, then NO we do not care. If you mean > > don't we care about how the rest of the world can help us...then > > again...if you mean how our $$ can support the rest of the world...Maybe > > we should put big walls up and hide behind them. I'm sure we would do > > okay, but how would Europe, Asia, Africa and even Australia survive > > without the constant influx of USA dollars. No my friend...we may be > > ugly...but we are the hope and the checkbook of the world. Until China > > fully modernizes and becomes a consumer nation, you need us much more > > than we need you. > > > > If you like to turn your back, feel free. But put your hands in your > > pockets...the world has too long benefitted from the generosity of the > > United States of America with little real payback. > > > > Finally again, since this has been a long retort...just what single > > policy implemented by President George W Bush forced Osama Bin Laden to > > attack civilians in New York City? > > Dave Henrie > > Citizen of the United States of America and an official SUB-Moron. > >

"JP" wrote... >> > Whew, for someone, in another thread, who was worried about > an ot topic bothering ng users.......<g> > > Email here too, eh ? Same thread. I meant users of other newsgroups... this thread spilled over from another newsgroup to ours. Dave is a regular here, so I have no bones about discussing something off topic with him. But you're right, nothing of general interest in this branch of the discussion. Sorry. Jan. =---

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Indeed it does not affect the reputation of President Bush in any way, > good or bad. But to insult and demonize the President while ignoring the > same from past Presidents shows not a horror of war but a horror of > Republican war. Praps. I dunno. I just *feel* that with GWB at the helm, the scope for massive carnage is that much greater. As a man who's apparently just been waiting for an excuse to jump into Iraq since 1999, his motives scare me. I have not been convinced that this current conflict is anything more than an effort to make his oil buddies *even* richer, and to sentence thousands to their death in this goal just makes me feel sick. It's either that, or a massive desire to "beat" his old paw. Either way, it's evil. No, GWB is not the first to kill for money, nor will he be the last, but he is the *current* and I don't like it. Add to that his religious right policy and you have a man I wouldn't piss on if he were on fire.

"Uwe Sch�rkamp" wrote...

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>>> <snip> >> See also Uwe's reply. President Bush simply doesn't project the >> image of a university graduate. > > In all fairness, I probably don't convey the image of a > physicist, either. Ask me how the light on your bicycle > works and you'll have me stuttering and groping for > handholds ;-)

First off, I'd be impressed if you knew what kind of light I have on my bicycle. ;-) Secondly, you do come across as a university graduate through your use of language, construction of your argument and wit when posting. It's one thing to have had a highly specialized training (what kind of physicyst are you?) and then being unable to completely explain (or put into laymans terms) how an every day item works. It's quite another to hold an office at the head of the largest economy in the world and then seemingly not thinking through the consequences of invading another country. As gaffes go, the latter is on an entirely different level. Jan. =---

After that I stopped reading as I couldn't tell what your point was... ;)

"Mark Davison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:419154b0$0$43602$[email hidden]... <smallish snip> > I just *feel* that with GWB at the helm, the scope for massive carnage is > that much greater. As a man who's apparently just been waiting for an > excuse to jump into Iraq since 1999, his motives scare me. I have notbeen > convinced that this current conflict is anything more than an effort tomake

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> his oil buddies *even* richer, and to sentence thousands to their death in > this goal just makes me feel sick. > > It's either that, or a massive desire to "beat" his old paw. Either way, > it's evil. > > No, GWB is not the first to kill for money, nor will he be the last, but

he > is the *current* and I don't like it. Add to that his religious right > policy and you have a man I wouldn't piss on if he were on fire. Well I must be more moderate then that because I 'would' piss on him . . . if I could that is . . . ah, er, um . . . well it's a long story but to cut to the chase - I'd at least throw my ileostomy bag at him. ;o) Elrikk

<smallish snip> Well I must be more moderate then that because I 'would'***on him . . . if I could that is . . . ah, er, um . . . well it's a long story but to cut to the chase - I'd at least throw my ileostomy bag at him. ;o) Elrikk

"Mark Davison" wrote... >> <snip> > No, GWB is not the first to kill for money, nor will he be the last, > but he is the *current* and I don't like it. Add to that his > religious right policy and you have a man I wouldn't piss on if he > were on fire. It is rather scary to have someone at the helm of what should be the ultimate democracy in the world (or at least is being marketed as such) who doesn't seem to grasp the concept of separation between church and state. As for the "on fire" business, seeing as, even when you need to go, the average male produces a maximum of about 300ml of liquid, peeing is a very inefficient way of putting out fires. So go right ahead if it makes you feel better... he'll burn to a crisp anyway. <vbseg> Jan. =---

"Mark Davison" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:4191520d$0$43606$[email hidden]:

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> > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Big snip > > Dave - you didn't answer his post *at all*

you are right. I'll try harder. > > He's asking about the current situation in Iraq and how it came to be > and you got defensive over GWB. Thread run-on I would suppose...conbining two long threads. > > As an admitted cowardly dumbass, I'm looking to you as a seemingly > more intelligent Bush supporter to give me answers *why* you support > him. So far, all I've heard is that other politicians are bad. Not > exactly a revelation. > I claim no intelligence. That would elevate me above my current world viewed ranking. however, I could have stated that the West, which includes France and Germany and Great Britain(or should I say England? I never know) have been under attack for decades. His first statement about the United States being attacked by a loose organization downplays the threat by scores. Al Queda is not attacking US citizens to further the cause of Allah, they have established a highly professional framework with which to coordinate attacks against their political foes. Knock down the US and the others will tumble easily might explain their strategy.

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> "Why then, when it appears that Al Queda has connections around the > entire globe, that we believe there was absolutely NO connection > between Al Queda and a goverment that openly supported terrorists, > terrorist goals, and terrorist's families." > > Eh? Run that by me again. Al Queda have connections around the > globe. Check. There may be an Al Queda presence in IRAQ, I have no > fackin clue, but are you saying it was valid for the US to storm in > because there was a goverment that openly supported terrorists, > terrorist goals, and terrorist's families? Does motive come into it > all or are all terrorists cut from the same cloth? They're just > loonies foaming at the mouth desperately looking for a cause to give > them an excuse to blow some people up?

No that wandering off message was my response to many here who repeat the 'no-connection' theory ad-nauseum. I used that to show that one would have to be highly naive to think Al Queda did not have connections with Iraq. I could have also said that countries like Pakistan still have tight connections with Al Queda and the Talibahn via members of their Intelligence community. So while Osamma and Saddam may have been not the closest of friends, members in each organization would have found plenty of reason to interact. Is it not odd that Zarkauwie(sorry spelling fog) is creating mayhem there? Why would a supposed mercenary of Allah rush in to defend a secular state? Why would a man convicted of murder in Lebanon find safety and healing in Iraq? The only reason that springs easily to my mind would be a PRE_EXISTING relationship between members of Al Q and Iraq's Dictatorship. Clearly, the 9/11 commission stated Saddam did not aid in the planning of the attack on US citizens, but by his very tolerance of terrorism gave shelter to those chased out of Afghanistan. > > From the point of view of the Iraqi mother who's no doubt just lost a > son this past couple of hours do we look like liberators or > terrorising invaders? We gave them 6 months to leave, we gave them weeks to surrender, we gave them time to build layers of defenses. Any 'child' still in Fallujah does not posess parents worthy of the name. Last I heard, we had lost over a dozen men there, Would their mothers be wrong in asking why the Saudi/Syrian/Pan Arab nationals still in Fallujah have come there to kill their sons? Did these wandering Pilgrims just 'happen' to drive past the city and stay out of concern for the children of that city? You have to ask the question, How and why are these fighters there? How are they funded(ask the Ayatollahs of Iran) how are they armed(ditto) how are they fed etc? A mercenary army has been smuggled into Iraq and is being used by the Moolahs(as GWB called them lol) to further the agenda of a radical Muslim ideaology. Do you think this 'army' of foriegners treated the locals with kindnes? With respect? Do you understand that even Muslim lives mean nothing to these people? Fallujah mothers have most likely little time to think of American invaders because they have been occuppied for most of this past year by another Army, another invader. One occupying force that lives off the population of a city is hardly different from any force we project there. So Saddam is not the focus of either side. He was at least a willing enabler or a duped pawn. His part in the global war on terror was not so much as a defender of the faith or a menace to our way of life. He was, tho, between the United States and those that want to kill us. > > Why are our troops there again...? Still don't know. > Michael Moore, is fond of asking a similar question. Unfortunately few have responded with what may be the simplest of reasons. Why are we there? Because our society has not yet grasped the urgency of the threat we face. Our population is not ready for open War inside our own borders. Our population is at risk yet we ignore or minimize the danger. So to TRY and prevent deaths in the streets of America, the current President has chosen to chase the fight to it's source. We are not in Iraq to put down a Dictator, we are not in Iraq to free Fallujah. We are in Iraq to try and save our existance, not from Iraq but from the Armies that have gathered there. We have harried and harrased criminal components all over the world, we have given them a place to flock to, a place far from American shores. We have drawn them into a battle that by it's very existance protects America at home. We fight in Iraq not for Bagdad, but Madison, St Louis, San Diego. Those who think America is safe from harm cannot possibly understand the forces that have combined against us. And while we put ourselves on the line, we pin down those that would harm Europe, those that would undermine SE Asia and Africa. To suppose oil was the reason for invasion is to suppose we have never lost lives to radical Islamics. We have not been attacked because of 'our' misguided foriegn policy. Rather, we have been attacked by those who KNOW our prescence forstalls THEIR foriegn ambitions. Finally Mcwena asks why an invasion, why not just a few Tomahawks lobbed into his palaces? Because past administrations have shown this response does not work. That this kind of response only emboldens people like Osama. That kind of response says the enemy is a fly to be swatted away. I have found that unless I swat the fly with overwhelming force, he just keeps comming back. Brush away a fly...bzzzz...brush him away again...bzzzz. We had spent the last 20 years condoning the murder of Western soldiers and civilians. Should be spend the next 20 years in an equally fruitless effort? Addressing your concern of GWB's religious nature. I admire a man who can stand up and profess his faith. I cannot believe that folks who tremble at the very mention of his faith think he takes commands from God. GWB is not Joan of Arc, not religious for it's convienance or it's dominance. He has accepted a philosophy that promotes love of one's neighbor as much as one's self. I feel no threat from such a man. It may suprise you to know I have not been in a Church in close to 30 years, that I have no affliation with religion, that I also have no political party I call my own. My view of politics is jaded at best and I view all parties with suspicion. Why did more Americans vote for this man than any other candidate in history? I do not know, but I'll break a rule and tell you why I voted for him. When asked in the Debates about their wives, I found something to admire. George Bush loves his wife with all his soul. He loves her beyond any measure of himself. John Kerry apparently could not say that and certainly did not say that. If I am to place my fate into the hands of a man, give me the man that stands up for those he loves and loves those he defends. John Kerry's policies would not differ much from Bush's when you look at the total policy package, but the soul that loves so powerfully gives me reasurrance. Give me that man rather than some warmed over partnership. Simply put, GWB gave me the impression he had much much more to fight for than JK. Dave Henrie (did i flounder into platitudes?)

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:Ejdkd.17405$[email hidden]: > It is rather scary to have someone at the helm of what should be the > ultimate democracy in the world (or at least is being marketed as > such) who doesn't seem to grasp the concept of separation between > church and state. > Whose concept? The writers of the Declaration of Independance and the Constitution, or those that feel those documents are merely legal notepads with which to justify any change from our founders intentions? > As for the "on fire" business, seeing as, even when you need to go, > the average male produces a maximum of about 300ml of liquid, peeing > is a very inefficient way of putting out fires. So go right ahead if > it makes you feel better... he'll burn to a crisp anyway. <vbseg> > > Jan. yeah but gimmie a few beers and I can still produce an overwhelming spray.lol. dh

Here is an audio history of the Kerry/Kennedy connection. http://www.here-now.org/shows/2004/07/20040727_2.asp "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Vh8kd.17024$[email hidden]...

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> "JP" wrote... >>> <snip> >> Oh, you mean like Kerry has with the Kennedys and >> the Heinz fortune ? > > What's his connection to the Kennedy family? -I've heard the reference > before ("talks like a Kennedy"), but I can't really find a link? > > Jan. > =--- > >

Despite your supposed lack of education, this is one the most sensible, reasoned responses on the topic of the US election I have read. I have a so-called education and worked in politics here in Canada for a number of years, so I have a bit of experience with these things. Marc "Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> If dubya isn't a moron he appears to do his darndest to look like one. > The guy hardly appears to have the ability to walk and talk at the > same time. He inspires no confidence in this outsider of having any > clue what he's doing. > > From what I can see, seems like the majority of the population voted > on the *real* issues, like stopping people from having abortions, > stopping gay people from getting married, the "War on Terror", the > fact that GWB is God's choice... > > The economy, the environment, feck that - STOP THOSE QUEERS GETTING > MARRIED!! > > Right - I'm not saying that I have any answers - I have no bleedin > clue as to how best to clear up the clusterfuck that is IRAQ, but I > will say that killing civilians will only create more hatred against > the US and the UK. > > "My baby has been killed, but that's OK - I can see the big picture > and that it's for the greater good" > > Speaking as a parent, I'm afraid that if anyone killed my kids, I'd > wanna inflict as much pain on the perps as possible. > > I dunno, if you beat someone long enough will their hate turn to love? > > I don't hate America or Americans. I do not have any time for GWB and > the apparent inbred hostility of the religious right. I am, however, > heartened that there is such a vast number of US citizens did not vote > GWB and are not swayed by politics of fear. > > I'm not afraid to say that I am not a well eductated man (that much is > probably apparent) so most likely you'll be able to bury me in an > argument, but I'm trying to get across a layman's view here. > > It doesn't matter how many qualifications Bush has on paper. If it > looks and acts like a doofus, it's most likely doofus. > > Why are we involved in a land war in IRAQ again...?

>The only reason that springs easily to my > mind would be a PRE_EXISTING relationship between members of Al Q and > Iraq's Dictatorship. Keep dreaming. > Clearly, the 9/11 commission stated Saddam did not > aid in the planning of the attack on US citizens, The majority of Bush voters still believe he did. Brilliant people. Should they even be allowed to vote when they are that stupid?

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> > From the point of view of the Iraqi mother who's no doubt just lost a > > son this past couple of hours do we look like liberators or > > terrorising invaders? > > We gave them 6 months to leave, we gave them weeks to surrender, we gave > them time to build layers of defenses. Any 'child' still in Fallujah does > not posess parents worthy of the name.

Typical American arrogance. Who the fuck are we to make them leave their own homes when the only reason their city is in chaos is because WE illegally invaded their country? Quick stat: 14 children are gunned down every day in this country (compared to about 14 men, women, and children in Britain in an entire year), and yet we lecture others on how to be good parents. > Last I heard, we had lost over a > dozen men there, Would their mothers be wrong in asking why the > Saudi/Syrian/Pan Arab nationals still in Fallujah have come there to kill > their sons? Iraqi's who do not want an army of illegal invaders occupying their county are defedning themselves. A small % of fighters from other countries have joined them. Allies if you will. Just like the US has allies.

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> > Why are our troops there again...? Still don't know. > > > Michael Moore, is fond of asking a similar question. Unfortunately few > have responded with what may be the simplest of reasons. > Why are we there? Because our society has not yet grasped the urgency of > the threat we face. Our population is not ready for open War inside our > own borders. Our population is at risk yet we ignore or minimize the > danger. So to TRY and prevent deaths in the streets of America, the > current President has chosen to chase the fight to it's source. >We are

not

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> in Iraq to put down a Dictator, we are not in Iraq to free Fallujah. We > are in Iraq to try and save our existance, not from Iraq but from the > Armies that have gathered there. We have harried and harrased criminal > components all over the world, we have given them a place to flock to, a > place far from American shores. We have drawn them into a battle that by > it's very existance protects America at home. We fight in Iraq not for > Bagdad, but Madison, St Louis, San Diego. Those who think America is safe > from harm cannot possibly understand the forces that have combined against > us. And while we put ourselves on the line, we pin down those that would > harm Europe, those that would undermine SE Asia and Africa. > To suppose oil was the reason for invasion is to suppose we have never > lost lives to radical Islamics. We have not been attacked because of > 'our' misguided foriegn policy. Rather, we have been attacked by those

who > KNOW our prescence forstalls THEIR foriegn ambitions. Wow, Bush has brainwashed you really well. Fact is, OBL is kicking Bush's ass in every respect, and the so called terrorists are healthy and spread out all over the world, watching Bush validate all their claims against the US. Their organization is getting stronger daily, Bush has been their best recruiter, and they are patiently waiting to get their revenge for the 100,000 we've slaughtered in our illegal invasion based on lies. All we are doing in Iraq is killing innocent Iraqi resistance fighters, and a small % of radical Muslims who've come from all over the Muslim world to join them. If you think all the so called terrorists have been drawn into Iraq, and we've killed most of them, then you live in a dream world. Just wondering Dave, what goes through your head when Bush mentions how Saddam was a monster for using chemical weapons in the past, but then conveniently fails to mention we sold them to him, and assisted him in using them? Doesn't that make us monsters as well? Wasn't OBL an ally of ours at one point as well? No, the US foreign policy hasn't been misguided. We are America. We are good. Apple pie, wave the flag, and all that crap. The world is hating us right now just because they are.......jealous? Right? The terrorists hate us because they "hate our freedom", right? LOL. > Addressing your concern of GWB's religious nature. I admire a man who > can stand up and profess his faith. I cannot believe that folks who > tremble at the very mention of his faith think he takes commands from God. He's a former coke head and drunk who is now a born again Chrisitian who thinks God guides his decisions. He called this war a "crusade". Screw him and his religion. Screw his radical Chrisitian supporters. I hope we have a civil war in this country before we let any of those Bible thumping wack jobs like DeLay have their way. > Why did more Americans vote for this man > than any other candidate in history? I love this bullshit Bush spin on the election. An historic amount voted for Kerry too. The answer is because turnout was so heavy It was the narrowest win for an incumbent president since 1916! BTW, love those new christian senators from the south. What did they say? They want to make it a law that lesbians and single mothers can't teach in public schools? Brilliant minds we just elected to the Senate. > I do not know, but I'll break a rule > and tell you why I voted for him. When asked in the Debates about their > wives, I found something to admire. George Bush loves his wife with all > his soul. He loves her beyond any measure of himself. <tears> Who gives a shit. They should get together and keep track of their drunken kids. > John Kerry > apparently could not say that and certainly did not say that. Are you fucking kidding me with this garbage? > If I am to > place my fate into the hands of a man, give me the man that stands up for > those he loves and loves those he defends. John Kerry's policies wouldnot > differ much from Bush's when you look at the total policy package, butthe > soul that loves so powerfully gives me reasurrance. Give me that man > rather than some warmed over partnership. Did you really write this stuff? > Simply put, GWB gave me the > impression he had much much more to fight for than JK. GWB gives me the impression we're all fucked. > Dave Henrie > (did i flounder into platitudes?) Yes. -- David G Fisher

Sucks, and worse, for a lot for people. I'll be fine though. -- David G Fisher "JP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:arckd.25$[email hidden]... > Hehe, congrats. Your side got beat by "an idiot". Sucks to be you. > > > David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > The world's #1 terrorist is George Bush. He's a liar, a brainwashed fucken > > Bible thumper, a criminal, an idiot, and a worldwide embarrassment. > Everyone > > on the planet outside of the 50 million "moral values" saviors and flag > > wavers who voted for him sees that. Hopefully the supporters, friends and > > loved ones of the 100,000 innocent men, women, and children he's > slaughtered > > in Iraq will get equal revenge on him and his terrorist organization. > > > > Whatever happens now, the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of Bush > and > > his supporters. > > > > 100,000 (and tens of thousands more mutilated and injured) and counting, > and > > for nothing but his lies about non-existent WMD, and yet some Americans > > still have the nerve to label others terrorists. If I could pluck those > > fools by the collar and instantly drop them in Iraq next to those dead, > > mangled bodies of women and children, they'd shit themselves. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Michael Ziegler <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > news:cmlbg5$lod$01$[email hidden]: > > > > > > > [email hidden] schrieb: > > > >> You blithering idiots! You re-elected that imbecile George Bush as > > > >> your President. He's a complete moron and so are most of you! > > > > > > So a diploma from Harvard is proof of moron-hood eh? I guess my > > > little ol Washington State University 4year degree then must equal > > > something below that, below moron. > > > Sub-Moron...I like that.. > > > > > > > > > >> - > > > >> Don't you care what the rest of the world thinks of you? Don't you > > > >> care what impact American foreign policy has on the rest of the > > > >> planet? Does Iraq look like a success to anyone? Doesn't it bother > > > >> you that he's alienated every friend you have? What were you > > > >> thinking??? - > > > > > > No I don't care what the rest of the world thinks. Why should I? > > > > > > >> Prior to this, it was American policy and the American government > > > >> that was so universally hated around the world. Now it's going to be > > > >> 'Americans' we hate. More sympathy for Bin Laden... More attacks on > > > >> American institutions... More isolation. How blind can you dumb > > > >> rednecks in middle-America be, not to see this? - > > > > > > Methinks Neville Chamberlin is alive and well. Let me get this > > > straight, BEFORE President Bush was elected, the people of the USA were > > > loved and endeared by all the world right? So WHY whould our embassies > > > be bombed when we were so loved? Why would our men stationed in Europe > > > get attack via nightclub bombing? Why would our ships be attacked? Why > > > would our civilians be murdered? We were being killed and attacked > > > before George Bush was President, I don't believe you can point to one > > > specific policy that was implemented AFTER George Bush's innauguration > > > that would have instigated the murder of 3000 US citizens. The attacks > > > on the World Trade Towers, The Pentagon and the defenseless field in > > > Pennsyvania were all planned LONG before George Bush was elected. > > > > > > >> If you get hit again, or your economy goes into a deep depression, > > > >> the American people will be getting exactly what they deserve! > > > >> - > > > >> <back turned> > > > > > > If we get hit again, it will mean we face a determined foe who is > > > hiding behind the myth of religion to justify the killing of anyone they > > > choose. Tell me Zarkowie is a zealot, he's nothing more than a > murderer, > > > somebody who delights in others pain...well, let me tell ya folks..the > > > world is full of those types...we have plenty right here in the good ol > > > US of A. Our economy DID suffer from the 2nd and 3rd attacks on the > > > world trade towers, but we have pulled ourselves up and out. How is the > > > French Economy doing these days? Near Double Digit unemployment last I > > > heard. The Germans? I'm sure those in the Eastern provinces are > basking > > > the glow of a healthy economy. > > > Again, blather all you want about somebody whom you appear not to have > > > much knowledge. But your blind comments about President Bush and HIS > > > polices seem to have not been carefully thought out. We are America. > We > > > are bigfatdumblazy but if not for us, how many peoples of the world > would > > > still live under oppression? How many languages would Europe have?(just > > > one Herr Knowitall) Who feeds the world? Who commits more money than > > > the rest of the planet to fight aids, hunger, devastation? Who put our > > > children's lives in harm's way to defend Europe after World War II? Who > > > stood up in Europe and said ENOUGH when the Serbs were cleansing > > > Yugoslavia? Which countries today have used the term Genocide when > > > speaking of the Sudan?(only one that I know of)...Speaking for the USA, > > > Secratary of State Colin Powell used that word when all the rest of the > > > world's hand-wringers merely said a study should be undertaken. > > > > > > You may not like us, too bad, I've met many good folks here. I > suppose > > > your vision of America is that all near 300million are the same. > > > But again, this really does come down to one of your complaints... > > > "Don't we care what the world thinks of us?" The answer is twofold, if > > > you mean do we care what the French, Germans and Russians think of us > > > while they took BILLIONS of dollars in cash and thereby food from the > > > mouths of Iraqi children, from the Oil for Food program, quite possibly > > > the words biggest finacial scandal, then NO we do not care. If you mean > > > don't we care about how the rest of the world can help us...then > > > again...if you mean how our $$ can support the rest of the world...Maybe > > > we should put big walls up and hide behind them. I'm sure we would do > > > okay, but how would Europe, Asia, Africa and even Australia survive > > > without the constant influx of USA dollars. No my friend...we may be > > > ugly...but we are the hope and the checkbook of the world. Until China > > > fully modernizes and becomes a consumer nation, you need us much more > > > than we need you. > > > > > > If you like to turn your back, feel free. But put your hands in your > > > pockets...the world has too long benefitted from the generosity of the > > > United States of America with little real payback. > > > > > > Finally again, since this has been a long retort...just what single > > > policy implemented by President George W Bush forced Osama Bin Laden to > > > attack civilians in New York City? > > > Dave Henrie > > > Citizen of the United States of America and an official SUB-Moron. > > > > > >

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: >> John Kerry >> apparently could not say that and certainly did not say that. > > Are you fucking kidding me with this garbage? The Dems and Repubs are near twins. Kerry might dot an i differently in Iraq, he might add a program or two at home, but the country would have seen very very little difference in day to day life if the election swung the other way. In the debate, Kerry couldn't talk fast enough to avoid speaking of his wife. A marriage of convience doesn't enthrall me, doesn't impassion me. I'm sure he cares deeply for Tereza, but his lack of passion for her was a Thunderclap. Surely a man who exhibits so little regard for his wife, cannot bring much more enthusiasm to my behalf.

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> >> If I am to >> place my fate into the hands of a man, give me the man that stands up >> for those he loves and loves those he defends. John Kerry's policies >> would > not >> differ much from Bush's when you look at the total policy package, >> but > the >> soul that loves so powerfully gives me reasurrance. Give me that man >> rather than some warmed over partnership. > > Did you really write this stuff?

yup...I chose a man vs trophy husband. Taxes wouldn't have changed much, Iraq wouldn't have altered in any great degree, Kerry told us this. The old Demo causes have been cast off, I have been a long time and big time cash supporter of Green Peace, World Wildlife Fund, Jaques Cousteau Society and more. Did the dems stand up for the Enviroment? Did the replublicans pour arsenic in my sewers? No to both. Our junior Democratic senator from Washington State got started in Congress and was known as "Microsoft's Congresswoman." Forgive me, but in my youth, no self respecting Dem would have had any public ties to such a huge corp. It's even stranger since her personal fortune came from Real Networks who at various times have sued MS for anti competition practices. Those are the Dems of today, not when I was young. Our Republican Congressman unseated the Democratic Speaker of the House, a man with near 30 years in Congress, by campaigning for term limits..when his self appointed day came...he 'forgot' the 3 terms and out promise. Donkey or Elephant, politicians just ain't what they used to be. So I didn't vote for cause, I didn't vote for or against the war. I didn't give credence to either side's slander adds. I certainly didn't give creedence to such fine Americans as Michael Moore, whose conviction to the truth is only as deep as his next edited film clip. I didn't vote for or against a God I have no ties to. I have no Party and I have no desire for one, they take care of themselves, not me. But I did see a man UNAFRAID to profess his innermost feeling. And next to that man I saw a boy clinging to his mother's apron strings.. Neither can assure me our friends under Allah's banner won't burn me alive tomorrow, neither can make the French do our bidding, our interests are no longer theirs. So when I said who cares about the world, I guess I was stating obliquely that the world cares very little about the USA and I don't have enough reason to care about them either. I have great interaction with many thoughtful reasoned international folks via the net. But in the end, we are just men playing with toys. My obsession with simming keeps me from engaging the world, keeps me from realizing my wife's failing health, my son's relative immaturity. No, as long as I worry about who's driving from the cockpit and who's not, then all the other stuff is just so minute. So yeah...I am not afraid to say. I voted for the President because he loves. I don't have that passion, I envy him. If you can give me a better reason why you voted for, I'm assuming Kerry, then feel free to enlighten me. Dave Henrie

On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 23:26:15 -0000, "Mark Davison" <[email hidden]> wrote: >but are you saying it was valid for the US to storm in because there was a >goverment that openly supported terrorists, terrorist goals, and terrorist's >families? Geez, after what happened on 9/11, that's not a very tough question for me to answer. We should sit with our thumbs up our ass and wait for the next attack?

I'd like to make a very on topic contribution to this thread. COULD YOU PLEASE FUCK THIS SHIT RIGHT OFF OUT OF HERE? :)

On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:17:46 -0600, JP wrote: > > No, I just find it amusing you slam Bush for the same thing Kerry and > every other politician does/has. Oh did I? As far as I know, I didn't mention any names in my post. Go re-read it. All the best, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

"Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote: > I'd like to make a very on topic contribution to this thread. > > COULD YOU PLEASE FUCK THIS SHIT RIGHT OFF OUT OF HERE? :) >But.. Where's "HERE"? :) -- Jeff. Ironbridge, Shrops, U.K. [email hidden] (remove the x..x round u-net for return address) and don't bother with ralf4, it's a spamtrap and I never go there.. :) ... "There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea.." Henry James, (1843 - 1916).

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > So yeah...I am not afraid to say. I voted for the President because he > loves. I don't have that passion, I envy him. If you can give me a > better reason why you voted for, I'm assuming Kerry, then feel free to > enlighten me. Bush appears to have voices in his head. 2 clips I have seen he's been mid sentence, no-one else speaking, and he blurts out "don't interrupt me". That's a major worry, don't you think? :D

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... >> I claim no intelligence. That would elevate me above mycurrent world

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> viewed ranking. however, I could have stated that the West, which includes > France and Germany and Great Britain(or should I say England? I never > know) have been under attack for decades. His first statement about the > United States being attacked by a loose organization downplays the threat > by scores. Al Queda is not attacking US citizens to further the cause of > Allah, they have established a highly professional framework with which to > coordinate attacks against their political foes. Knock down the US and the > others will tumble easily might explain their strategy. > > The only reason that springs easily to my > mind would be a PRE_EXISTING relationship between members of Al Q and > Iraq's Dictatorship. Clearly, the 9/11 commission stated Saddam did not > aid in the planning of the attack on US citizens, but by his very tolerance > of terrorism gave shelter to those chased out of Afghanistan. > > > > > From the point of view of the Iraqi mother who's no doubt just lost a > > son this past couple of hours do we look like liberators or > > terrorising invaders? > > We gave them 6 months to leave, we gave them weeks to surrender, we gave > them time to build layers of defenses. Any 'child' still in Fallujah does > not posess parents worthy of the name.

DGF gets this right, I think. "Hello folks, US here. For your own good here we come to bulldoze your town. You've been warned. Make way." > So Saddam is not the focus of either side. He was at least a willing > enabler or a duped pawn. His part in the global war on terror was not so > much as a defender of the faith or a menace to our way of life. He was, > tho, between the United States and those that want to kill us. (again much snippage) You need to keep it more simple for me :D What the US is doing would appear to assume that the all those who would threaten the US are holed up in Iraq, that Iraq is some kind command centre for anti-American activists. Surely this thinking is flawed? What is the criteria for determining that action in Iraq has been successful? When you (or more acurately, we, I guess) are done there who's next? Will that be the end of terrorism? Who will be the next target for this war or terror? The US has financed terrorist groups in the past, hasn't it? Perhaps it'll be a civil war on terrorism :D This mess is way beyond the point of no return, but taking the standpoint, again, of a war on terror, as opposed to a "liberation", the good that the US will see from this is...? I can only see that there will be more people than ever that want to see the US hurt and hurt bad. I don't *want* this to happen, of course! I want to see my friends over there again. I want to see the race team I work for continue their plans for US success in the ASA / NASCAR racing scene. I want a new Mustang!! I want to be wrong. I want to believe that this action will lead to a peaceful and prosperous Iraq, but I don't think it will. I also think that the US will be more of a target than it already is.

David G Fisher wrote: > > Quick stat: 14 children are gunned down every day in this country (compared > to about 14 men, women, and children in Britain in an entire year), and yet > we lecture others on how to be good parents. The only fact in that statement is the word quick. That 14 a day number was a gerrymandering of statistics which included drug dealers and gangmembers killed in gunfights, and "children" up to age 21. If you cut off the definition of children at 16, the number is under 100 per year. More are killed by Bic lighters. The second part is blatantly untrue also. Great Britain outlawed gun ownership about five years ago, and gun crime has skyrocketed since. Don McCorkle

TW <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 23:26:15 -0000, "Mark Davison" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >but are you saying it was valid for the US to storm in because there was a > >goverment that openly supported terrorists, terrorist goals, and terrorist's > >families? > > Geez, after what happened on 9/11, that's not a very tough question > for me to answer. We should sit with our thumbs up our ass and wait > for the next attack?

Sorry, I thought you'd "done" Afganistan. I'm pretty sure the US have supported terrorist groups. All depends on the cause and who's side you're on doesn't it. Freedom fighter or Terrorist. Did the "terrorists" holed up in Iraq have anything to do with 9/11? I dunno. Is every terrorist who might strike the US there? You never know, you might be lucky? Beating the crap out of a country will surely win you a load of friends in that area though. Let's say it *IS* all about 9/11 - They hit you, you hit them back. You really think it'll stop there? Torture could work, I guess. Just keep on beating those who you suspect might possibly at some point in the future maybe perhaps have a bit of a beef with you. That'll teach them to think un-American thoughts. They'll surely stand corrected and love you for it.

Uwe Sch�rkamp <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:17:46 -0600, JP wrote: > > > > No, I just find it amusing you slam Bush for the same thing Kerry and > > every other politician does/has. > > Oh did I? As far as I know, I didn't mention any names in my post. Go > re-read it. > > All the best, > > uwe > > > > -- > mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) > Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ > Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) > GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Nice try at being condescending. Notice the word "daddy" in this post, in which you were replying to a comment about Bush (hint: Harvard degree, save you from another patronizing comment). So a diploma from Harvard is proof of moron-hood eh? I guess my > little ol Washington State University 4year degree then must equal > something below that, below moron. While it's not an exact proof of moronhood, neither is it a proof of intellectual capability I am afraid, esp. if your daddy happens to have deep pockets and certain good "relations" (called "Vitamin B" here in Germany ;-) on all levels of society. cheers, uwe Now, since Kerry's father isn't a factor, and you were replying to a comment about Bush, who else is it about ? Go ahead, re-read it.

"George Bush: 1 for 1 in 2004." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1100050883.2Ny49rY3W6ouWUK5LmEcbQ@teranews... > In article <41911f5a$0$33592$[email hidden]>, > "Mark Davison" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > And you're a coward. Were we truly xenophobic, we could really cleanup > > > this country. > > > > If being a coward is not wanting to see incocents slaughtered for thesake

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> > of a bunch of fat cats, then I'm the biggest yellow belly there is! > > Part of that is true. > > > > > Yeehah! Look at my big old yeller gut!!!!! > > > > When does your tour over there start, hard man? > > Wondering the same.

Waiting for the call are you? Good luck over there. Much as I might disagree with you or dislike you I don't necessarily wanna see you killed or killing those that don't deserve it. ttfn

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:30:02 -0600, JP wrote: > > Now, since Kerry's father isn't a factor, and you were replying to a > comment about Bush, who else is it about ? How would you know that Kerry's daddy isn't or wasn't a factor in his education? Not trying to be condescending, just wondering. All the best, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

On 10 Nov 2004 06:17:23 -0800, Mark wrote: > DGF gets this right, I think. "Hello folks, US here. For your own > good here we come to bulldoze your town. You've been warned. Make > way." Maybe Douglas Adams just got the name of the race wrong when he decided to call them "Vogons"? How good is American poetry, anyway? ;-) I've said before I wouldn't comment on this issue anymore, but it's just too tempting to end up the alt.humor.best-of-usenet hall of fame some day. Maybe we should all just get back to racing? Cheers, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

On 10 Nov 2004 05:43:41 -0800, Mark wrote: > Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > Bush appears to have voices in his head. 2 clips I have seen he's > been mid sentence, no-one else speaking, and he blurts out "don't > interrupt me". > > That's a major worry, don't you think? some rumor, soon to become an urban legend I guess, claims that he was wired up during the 2nd "debate" in order to get hints and advice from some rethorical expert / master debater via wireless communication or something. I have no idea wether this is actually true (check www.theregister.co.uk for the article), but I'd much rather have him trying to cut out some invisible advisor, than, say, Jesus or whoever it is that's supposed to guide him ;-) Cheers, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

On 10 Nov 2004 06:35:49 -0800, [email hidden] (Mark) wrote: >Beating the crap out of a country will surely win you a load of >friends in that area though. Let's say it *IS* all about 9/11 - They >hit you, you hit them back. You really think it'll stop there? And the alternative is....? Do nothing as they continue to kill thousands more of my countrymen? You do realize that the vote to us force in Iraq was a bipartisan one. A vote based on the best intelligence we had at the time. It's easy to be an armchair general, and hindsight is surely 20/20. And had it not been for the "food for oil program" (right...it wasn't GWB's friends getting rich....it was Germany, France, and Russia), the UN would have been behind our actions 100%. And please, don't bother with the conspiracy theory that the intellegence was drummed up allow us to go into Iraq. Myself (and about 60 million of my closest friends) don't buy it. Have you forgotten the real reason the terrorists want our heads? Our support of Israel, plain and simple. They want Israel wiped from the face of the planet. As long as the US is allied with Israel, and there is no peace in the West Bank, this will continue. You know, I'm about through reading this thread, because it's quite clear that you (and many others on your side of the aisle) will never be able to see the forest for the trees.....IE, see the real situation without letting your political agenda cloud your vision. And the more the Dems spout the vile comments such as you have put forth, the more that will be driven to our side. Keep up the good work.

Uwe Sch�rkamp <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:30:02 -0600, JP wrote: > > > > Now, since Kerry's father isn't a factor, and you were replying to a > > comment about Bush, who else is it about ? > > How would you know that Kerry's daddy isn't or wasn't a factor in his > education? > > Not trying to be condescending, just wondering. > > All the best, > > uwe > > > > -- > mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) > Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ > Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) > GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

lol, give me a break Uwe. You know you were talking about Bush. Anyone reading your reply would think the same. But you get an A for effort of twisting things around, without answering questions. Oh, thats right; you were replying to a post about Bush, but you were referring to someone else, that you didn't name. <wink> Ok, who exaclty were you referring to if not Bush ? (or will this be the second question I've asked you, that you don't answer) And I never said Kerry's father wasn't a factor in his education. He wasn't a factor in your reply. Hint; daddy, etc. in a reply to a post about Bush. But then, you already know all this.

"TW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On 10 Nov 2004 06:35:49 -0800, [email hidden] (Mark) > wrote: > > >Beating the crap out of a country will surely win you a load of > >friends in that area though. Let's say it *IS* all about 9/11 - They > >hit you, you hit them back. You really think it'll stop there? > > And the alternative is....? Do nothing as they continue to kill > thousands more of my countrymen?

Tell me who "they" is and how you know they're gonna be killing thousands of your countrymen if you don't do this? Also tell me how this action will stop thousands of your countrymen being killed. This course has sure cost hundreds so far. The situation has gone too far and there's fuck all ANYONE can do about it now - I guess it'll just play out and we'll see who had the closest guess at the fallout in about 20 or 30 years. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I have no answers, as I have stated. > You know, I'm about through reading this thread, because it's quite > clear that you (and many others on your side of the aisle) will never > be able to see the forest for the trees.....IE, see the real situation > without letting your political agenda cloud your vision. And the more > the Dems spout the vile comments such as you have put forth, the more > that will be driven to our side. Keep up the good work. I have no political agenda. I don't even know what I would do with one. Fact is, I just don't like people being killed. I was horrified by 9/11 and I'm horrified by current events. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that. Who cares what "side" people are on??? Fact is there's a load of pain and suffering out there, regardless of the "side" we are on. If me stating that I'm not happy about that makes more people start to feel more cozy about it then I guess that could be considered a good thing in a twisted kind of way. From my simpleton viewpoint, I see what could be boiled down to "shoot first, ask questions later" And I see very little positive coming out the other side. Like I already said, I *really* hope I'm wrong. I almost envy you, being so comfortable with what's going on, feeling confident that the motivation was true and just, that the outcome will surely be deemed worth the cost. I just don't see it - sorry.

"Uwe Sch�rkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On 10 Nov 2004 06:17:23 -0800, Mark wrote: > > DGF gets this right, I think. "Hello folks, US here. For your own > > good here we come to bulldoze your town. You've been warned. Make > > way." > > Maybe Douglas Adams just got the name of the race wrong when he > decided to call them "Vogons"? How good is American poetry, anyway? ;-)

LOL! You spotted the inspiration, then :D Not too subtle, I guess!!

[email hidden] (Mark) wrote in news:[email hidden]: > That'll teach them to think un-American > thoughts. They'll surely stand corrected and love you for it. > The point is...BEFORE George W Bush, Before President Clinton and Before any thought of 9/11 crept into the minds of AQ, they already hated us. You don't blow up ships, you don't pull down buildings, you don't blow up children and you don't saw off heads unless you ALREADY have a beef. I am stunned that you think they can feel WORSE ABOUT US NOW THAN THEY ALREADY DO! If you piss off every Muslim in the freakin world, then we are at no more risk than we are already. They are coming. My grandkids, your children, your friends, your very lives are all the provocation they need. By living and breathing we have made ourselves a target. Which goverment, who was in power, what multinational corporation is dealing behind your back makes no difference now. They are coming, whether we bow down and suck thier apendages, they are coming. Whether we pray on eastern facing mats, they are coming. What we do now to endear or enrage is not the issue. They have already begun. Shaking hands and playing nice will not stop them. Fighting overseas will not stop them...but it may delay them. Having a Moron or Choirboy for President will not mollify them. Sucking up to Euro leaders will not pacify them. Ignoring them will not stop them. Two books might clear things up...The Koran and The Shadow War. I have read neither but I am told they both include numerous passages about ending our lives. Hell, I'm not even a Jew, or Christian, or a Muslim or Hindu. Yet I offend them. There are something like 29 or 30 armed conflicts currently smoldering around the world(excluding crime and drug interdictions) and of those, something like 28 involve people of Muslim faith. So wring your hands and WORRY about how they FEEL about us. Say hello to Neville when you meet him. dave henrie

Dave Henrie wrote: > So wring your hands and WORRY about how they FEEL about us. Erm Dave, you may like to stop and think about WHY they started to feel something about you (instead of just not caring and / or not knowing about the country in the first place... like you guys and Denmark, for instance). You might like to stop and think about WHY most citizens of this world don't exactly dig American politics now (in most Internet polls about 75 per cent of people outside the US would've voted him out of office - but the religious right, or rather the $ sponsoring that particular group in the background, kept him in). I think most of us Europeans (which would mean 'liberal pussies' to most Bush voters, but OK - we don't all have a craving for guns & bibles) could understand the US wanting to strike back after having 9/11, but most of us don't grok picking Saddam - b*stard extraordinaire though he may be - and invading Iraq (hey, oil! Lots of it!) instead of going after Osama properly. He's still out there, I hear? Personally, I think the US would have a lot to gain if they finally bullied and/or enforced a proper peace plan for Israel, giving the Palestians a permanent place of their own on the West Bank and putting a nicely-sized UN peace force in between (until things cool off in 60-odd years or so), instead of a dumb wall... At least a proper peace agreement would give the moderate Muslim majority something positive to think about (the US that is). But I guess that's not likely to happen, Bush supporting a hardliner like Sharon 'nd all. Still, I think in the mid to long term it'd be more efficient than starting an unprovoked war in Iraq (note I said 'in Iraq' - Saddam had been keeping relatively quiet under the no-fly zones at the time). Or wherever the next 'target' may be. But hey, 'get Osama' seems to have been miraculously swapped for other intentions, like putting fear of Muslims instead of fear of Russkies, ditching those pesky international human rights laws especially during military trials, and policies like 'get WMD uhh... Target Not Found... Get Oil' - and THAT may be why many people feel not particularly positive about Bush's US right now. It's not about defending yourself, it's about how you strike back and at which particular target. Currently I think he's giving many Muslims the feeling he's out to get them instead of focusing on the much smaller group of religious fanatic terrorists. I don't think many people would mind if Bush had kept on concentrating to chase Osama - the one he originally said he was out to get. Or that fella Zarqawi, a prime secondary target if there ever was one. Regards, Rudy -------------------- GPLRank: -24

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> On 10 Nov 2004 06:35:49 -0800, [email hidden] (Mark) > wrote: > > >Beating the crap out of a country will surely win you a load of > >friends in that area though. Let's say it *IS* all about 9/11 - They > >hit you, you hit them back. You really think it'll stop there? > > And the alternative is....? Do nothing as they continue to kill > thousands more of my countrymen?

Where'd you pull that number from. No wonder you're so concerned if your government has you believing that kind of stuff. Apart from 9/11, how many US nationals have actually been killed in Al Qaeda attacks exactly? -- Pete Ives Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:58:36 -0000, "Mark Davison" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Like I already said, I *really* hope I'm wrong. I almost envy you, being so >comfortable with what's going on, feeling confident that the motivation was >true and just, that the outcome will surely be deemed worth the cost. I >just don't see it - sorry. Actually, confident is not the word I would use. I've had my doubts about what's going on, just as most Americans have at one time or another. But I really feel I've been able to put politics aside and weigh what's going on with an un-biased view (as much as an American can be un-biased after 9/11). In the end, the world is better off without Saddam in power. The mass media doesn't report the good things going on in Iraq, because it doesn't sell papers. They don't tell you of the citizens of Iraq who thank our soldiers for freeing them from this tyrant. However, having a nephew who server there, I know of these stories.

Uwe =?iso-8859-15?Q?Sch=FCrkamp?= <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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>> DGF gets this right, I think. "Hello folks, US here. For your own >> good here we come to bulldoze your town. You've been warned. Make >> way." > > Maybe Douglas Adams just got the name of the race wrong when he > decided to call them "Vogons"? How good is American poetry, anyway? ;-) > > I've said before I wouldn't comment on this issue anymore, but it's > just too tempting to end up the alt.humor.best-of-usenet hall of fame > some day. Maybe we should all just get back to racing? > > Cheers, > > uwe

Uwe, I'm suprised. Of course America has good poets. One of my favorites is Dusty Hill or Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top...(I never know who wrote what...) However, this couplet proves beyond all doubt that America is rich with poets.... Oh, I want her. Shit, I've got to have her. aaahhhh doesn't that just satisfy the soul? dave henrie

Ruud Dingemans <[email hidden]> wrote in news:cmud6o$aat$1 @news3.zwoll1.ov.home.nl:

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> Dave Henrie wrote: > >> So wring your hands and WORRY about how they FEEL about us. > > Erm Dave, you may like to stop and think about WHY they started to feel > something about you (instead of just not caring and / or not knowing > about the country in the first place... like you guys and Denmark, for > instance). >

We might go back to the English practice of village annialation. Or the Turkish method of back door conversion. Or the Chritian armies of the dark ages. This isn't a USA bred problem. They just have bigger swords now. Certainly our medling in the past 40 years has pointed more anger at our country. But Muslim vs the world supercedes our involvement by several centuries. > You might like to stop and think about WHY most citizens of this world > don't exactly dig American politics now (in most Internet polls about 75 > per cent of people outside the US would've voted him out of office - but > the religious right, or rather the $ sponsoring that particular group in > the background, kept him in). At best this religious right you mention has about 25% of voters. Just try and win office riding on 1/4th of the voters. If you want me to vote for other countries, I can assure you there are precious few world leaders that give me hope. > > I think most of us Europeans (which would mean 'liberal pussies' to most

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> Bush voters, but OK - we don't all have a craving for guns & bibles) > could understand the US wanting to strike back after having 9/11, but > most of us don't grok picking Saddam - b*stard extraordinaire though he > may be - and invading Iraq (hey, oil! Lots of it!) instead of going > after Osama properly. He's still out there, I hear? > > Personally, I think the US would have a lot to gain if they finally > bullied and/or enforced a proper peace plan for Israel, giving the > Palestians a permanent place of their own on the West Bank and putting

a > nicely-sized UN peace force in between (until things cool off in 60-odd > years or so), Is this the UN that defends the Sudan? The one that raked in BILLIONS of Iraqi oil money? South Korea was the last great stand of the UN. Since then they have become nothing more than a mafia. If I am standing on one side and the UN led forces are between me and killers. You can bet I will stand very very very far away. instead of a dumb wall... At least a proper peace > agreement would give the moderate Muslim majority something positive to > think about (the US that is). > But I guess that's not likely to happen, Bush supporting a hardliner > like Sharon 'nd all. Still, I think in the mid to long term it'd be more > efficient than starting an unprovoked war in Iraq (note I said 'in Iraq' > - Saddam had been keeping relatively quiet under the no-fly zones at the > time). Or wherever the next 'target' may be. 28+ violent conflicts around the world that involve Muslim extremist. I'd be willing to bet Euros that very very few of them have ANYTHING to do with Israel. I do know that since that DUMB wall was erected, Israelies stopped exploding at a previous rate that would have dwarfed 9/11 when considered by a population proportion.

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> > But hey, 'get Osama' seems to have been miraculously swapped for other > intentions, like putting fear of Muslims instead of fear of Russkies, > ditching those pesky international human rights laws especially during > military trials, and policies like 'get WMD uhh... Target Not Found... > Get Oil' - and THAT may be why many people feel not particularly > positive about Bush's US right now. > > It's not about defending yourself, it's about how you strike back and

at

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> which particular target. Currently I think he's giving many Muslims the > feeling he's out to get them instead of focusing on the much smaller > group of religious fanatic terrorists. I don't think many people would > mind if Bush had kept on concentrating to chase Osama - the one he > originally said he was out to get. Or that fella Zarqawi, a prime > secondary target if there ever was one. > > Regards, Rudy > -------------------- > GPLRank: -24 >

President Bush stated quite clearly after 9/11 that he intended to chase terror around the globe. Efforts in the Philipines, the Guineas, in Europe, in Africa, in financial dealings. He never said OBL was the only focus. Nor did he claim revenge as a motive. He said he would stand up to terror as best he could. Damn. A bible thumping cro-magnion who stands behind his words. Chirac baby...you listening? Jimmy Carter was and is deeply, DEEPLY religious, JFK was Catholic, Bill Clinton had a special oversized Bible he pulled out when-ever a new stain showed up. But no-one feared them because of thier beliefs. No one questioned their sanity because they believed in Jesus. How odd. dave henrie

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 01:31:48 -0000, Peter <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, >[email hidden] says... >> On 10 Nov 2004 06:35:49 -0800, [email hidden] (Mark) >> wrote: >> >> >Beating the crap out of a country will surely win you a load of >> >friends in that area though. Let's say it *IS* all about 9/11 - They >> >hit you, you hit them back. You really think it'll stop there? >> >> And the alternative is....? Do nothing as they continue to kill >> thousands more of my countrymen? > >Where'd you pull that number from. No wonder you're so concerned if >your government has you believing that kind of stuff. Apart from 9/11, >how many US nationals have actually been killed in Al Qaeda attacks >exactly?

We lost nearly 3000 on 9/11/01. I think that backs up my statement.

"TW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 01:31:48 -0000, Peter > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >In article <[email hidden]>, > >[email hidden] says... > >> On 10 Nov 2004 06:35:49 -0800, [email hidden] (Mark) > >> wrote: > >> > >> >Beating the crap out of a country will surely win you a load of > >> >friends in that area though. Let's say it *IS* all about 9/11 - They > >> >hit you, you hit them back. You really think it'll stop there? > >> > >> And the alternative is....? Do nothing as they continue to kill > >> thousands more of my countrymen? > > > >Where'd you pull that number from. No wonder you're so concerned if > >your government has you believing that kind of stuff. Apart from 9/11, > >how many US nationals have actually been killed in Al Qaeda attacks > >exactly? > > We lost nearly 3000 on 9/11/01. I think that backs up my statement.

No, we didn't. A lot of them weren't Americans. Don't know why American like to continually claim all the dead as Americans. Maybe because they don't want to recognize that we are the only country that went nuts in response to what happened? We need to get over it already. I know it's not PC to say, but as tragedies go, it's barely a blip on the radar in history. That's just a FACT. Hardly a license to go ahead and slaughter 100,000 innocent Iraqi men, women, and children. Maybe we Americans are just extremely weak compared to everyone else. -- David G Fisher

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:49:54 -0600, Dave Henrie wrote:

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> > Uwe, I'm suprised. Of course America has good poets. One of my > favorites is Dusty Hill or Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top...(I never know who > wrote what...) However, this couplet proves beyond all doubt that America > is rich with poets.... > > Oh, I want her. > Shit, I've got to have her. > > aaahhhh doesn't that just satisfy the soul?

Dave, you're right. Heart-wrenching, emotional stuff. How I could possible have missed ZZ Top is beyond me. "She got legs / she knows how to use'em" is another classic. ;^) cheers, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> They are coming, whether we bow down and suck thier apendages, they are > coming. Whether we pray on eastern facing mats, they are coming. What > we do now to endear or enrage is not the issue. They have already begun. > Shaking hands and playing nice will not stop them. Fighting overseas > will not stop them...but it may delay them. > Having a Moron or Choirboy for President will not mollify them. > Sucking up to Euro leaders will not pacify them. Ignoring them will not > stop them. > Two books might clear things up...The Koran and The Shadow War. I have > read neither but I am told they both include numerous passages about > ending our lives. > Hell, I'm not even a Jew, or Christian, or a Muslim or Hindu. Yet I > offend them. There are something like 29 or 30 armed conflicts currently > smoldering around the world(excluding crime and drug interdictions) and > of those, something like 28 involve people of Muslim faith. So wring > your hands and WORRY about how they FEEL about us.

Uh oh. Is this what it boils down to? The Muslim world is bent on destroying the western way of life? "They are coming". So we bomb the shit out of Iraq as a delaying tactic, because it's inevitable, right? IMO, if you're correct, the process will not have slowed down but speeded up. More amunition for the extremist propoganda machine. Maybe the time it happens will be considered "Judgement Day" Why don't we just nuke that entire area? They've no WMD, so Mutaually Assured Destruction shouldn't be an issue. It's "us", the right minded consumers who know what's best for the planet or "them", the religious loons. They're coming for sure, let's nip it in the bud... Man, how much simpler would things be if we were a world of atheists. "Imagine" etc...

Uwe Sch�rkamp wrote: > > How would you know that Kerry's daddy isn't or wasn't a factor in his > education? Kerry's father was a huge factor in his education. That's who taught Kerry that it's better to marry a filthy rich woman than to try to build your own fortune. Don McCorkle

On 11 Nov 2004 02:28:48 -0800, Mark wrote: > Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > > Man, how much simpler would things be if we were a world of atheists. Not really, all you need are religions that don't turn spreading themselves to the "heathens" and "infidels" into a holy duty of the believer. That's why the major world religions are so "successful". (much like a virus is to be considered successful, until it finally kills its host organism). Forcing our cultural vision onto others is a major asset of our global taker culture, be you muslim or be you christian or whatever, at the root there's the common belief that we know the way man is supposed to live. Cheers, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:47:17 -0500, Woodie83 wrote: > Kerry's father was a huge factor in his education. That's who taught > Kerry that it's better to marry a filthy rich woman than to try to build > your own fortune. As the saying goes in Germany: "It's not one's fault being born poor; marrying poor is a different matter" ;-) uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 01:31:48 -0000, Peter > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >In article <[email hidden]>, > >[email hidden] says... > >> On 10 Nov 2004 06:35:49 -0800, [email hidden] (Mark) > >> wrote: > >> > >> >Beating the crap out of a country will surely win you a load of > >> >friends in that area though. Let's say it *IS* all about 9/11 - They > >> >hit you, you hit them back. You really think it'll stop there? > >> > >> And the alternative is....? Do nothing as they continue to kill > >> thousands more of my countrymen? > > > >Where'd you pull that number from. No wonder you're so concerned if > >your government has you believing that kind of stuff. Apart from 9/11, > >how many US nationals have actually been killed in Al Qaeda attacks > >exactly? > > We lost nearly 3000 on 9/11/01. I think that backs up my statement. >

Not really. You've had 1 major tragedy, albeit a very, very sad day indeed, but, as the saying goes, 'One swallow doesn't make a summer'. That happened over 3 years ago and yet you use the rhetoric that americans are 'continually' being killed in their 'thousands'. Exaggeration indeed. As another saying goes, 'Why let the truth get in the way of a good argument?' :) -- Pete Ives Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

Woodie83 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > The second part is blatantly untrue also. Great Britain outlawed gun > ownership about five years ago, and gun crime has skyrocketed since. I'm sorry, is that what the NRA tell you nowadays? Guns have never been outlawed over here. Certain types of guns, yes, but not all firearms. Not since the time of bows and arrows has there been any "right to bear arms" over here. To get a gun (according to the sports shooting colleague I've just spoken with) you first have to be a member of a gun club for at least six months. Then the owner of the club has to vouch that you are a capable and trustworthy individual. Then you have to prove that your home security is up to scratch so that burglars can't make off with your lethal weapons. Guns are instruments of hunting and sport - not self defence. Gun crime is on the increase due to the apparent ease with which individuals can lay their hands on illegal arms, usually ex-soviet, and the "cool" Gangsta image of get rich or die trying. For a long time have teenagers been in gangs and kicked shit out of each other - happenned when I was a kid and my parents before me - but it appears to have moved up a gear (hey, this is R.A.S!) I don't know why that might be, but I do know there is NO link between restricting firearm ownership and a rise in gun crime. There can't be because given the above, there can not have been an incident where one person decided not to commit a gun crime for fear that the victim might be similarly armed. Hey! This OT thread is getting OT!!! Regards,

Woodie83 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > Kerry's father was a huge factor in his education. That's who taught > Kerry that it's better to marry a filthy rich woman than to try to build > your own fortune. Dang. Wish my old Dad had taught me that.

Uwe =?iso-8859-15?Q?Sch=FCrkamp?= <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> Forcing our cultural vision onto others is a major asset of our global > taker culture, be you muslim or be you christian or whatever, at the > root there's the common belief that we know the way man is supposed to > live. > > Cheers, > > uwe >

Isn't that what we Cockpit Nazi's do everyday? :) (zinnng! back on topic!) hehehe dh

Isn't that what we***pit Nazi's do everyday? :) (zinnng! back on topic!) hehehe dh

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:03:50 -0600, Dave Henrie wrote: > Isn't that what we Cockpit Nazi's do everyday? :) > (zinnng! back on topic!) hehehe Hey Dave, stop hijacking my thread now!!! (c8 All the best, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 01:57:50 -0500, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> We lost nearly 3000 on 9/11/01. I think that backs up my statement. > >No, we didn't. A lot of them weren't Americans. Don't know why American like >to continually claim all the dead as Americans. Maybe because they don't >want to recognize that we are the only country that went nuts in response to >what happened? Excuse me. We lost nearly 3000 souls on 9/11.....on American soil. I don't give a rats ass where they called home or what nationality they were.

Uwe Schürkamp <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > Not really, all you need are religions that don't turn spreading > themselves to the "heathens" and "infidels" into a holy duty of the > believer. That's why the major world religions are so > "successful". (much like a virus is to be considered successful, until > it finally kills its host organism). I suppose that's about as likely as my faithless world :) > Forcing our cultural vision onto others is a major asset of our global > taker culture, be you muslim or be you christian or whatever, at the > root there's the common belief that we know the way man is supposed to > live. As it happens, I *do* know the way man is supposed to live, so there!!! :p Wanna know? "Be excellent to each other" :D Of all people, *George Clooney* (!!) summarised my feelings brilliantly. "I don't believe in happy endings - either you die young or you live to see those you love die. I believe in happy travels..." A tad nihilistic, perhaps, but as good a code as any :)