Is GTR the next GPL?

Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any racing sims since about 2001.

Dont insult GPL like that.GPL was revolutionary while GTR is just hype. RBR is the new GPL "john henry bonham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:416f7bff$0$94917$[email hidden]... > Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any racing > sims since about 2001.

This is about the physics engine, right? Guess I'll leave that to who's driven these cars IRL. I have brought RBR - but again, however good this rally sim is it still feels real lonely out there without the wheel to wheel competition :) The physics do seem to me, very good in GTR with one reservation. However, only time will tell if it has a chance to live up to the classic that is GPL. I've also looked at the files and can see no way for modding like GPL which has helped keep it alive for so long. And what is it about open wheel racing; I just love seeing the wheels and suspension at work and it seriously helps with the placement of the car on the track. The real sad thing now is that GPLs graphics are looking really tardy and dated being Directx7 and seeing the georgeous SPA in GTR and the rally circuits in RBR complete with bump mapping (especially in RBR) its hard not to be impressed with these latest sim additions. Alan "Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:416f8e5f$[email hidden]...

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> Dont insult GPL like that.GPL was revolutionary while GTR is just hype. > RBR is the new GPL > "john henry bonham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:416f7bff$0$94917$[email hidden]... >> Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any racing >> sims since about 2001. > >

"Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<416f8e5f$[email hidden]>... > Dont insult GPL like that.GPL was revolutionary while GTR is just hype. > RBR is the new GPL > "john henry bonham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:416f7bff$0$94917$[email hidden]... > > Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any racing > > sims since about 2001. RBR feels like a racing sim demo to me. Great graphics and physics, but nobody to race against (like the 1st GTR demo). I know this is how rally racing is supposed to be, but I find it a bit... lonely. Anyway, no sense in comparing RBR to GTR, as it's two completely different types of "racing". If you prefer racing against the clock, RBR can't be beat (at the moment). I prefer racing against other cars on the circuit, so I am eagerly awaiting GTR! -Pat

Ahhhhhhhh what a loaded question, which will produce predictable results in this group... Damn bloody GPL luddites, hahahha... There will never be another GPL, hell I even wonder if GPL could stand up to GPL, hahahha.. Goes the old story, GPL simmer gets a chance to drive a full spec modern F1 car, he takes it out for 20 laps (insert your favorite track here) upon the conclusion of this test drive, he exits the car and says "that was pretty cool, but it ain't no GPL" Even with all the glaring problems in GPL looking like monsterous cyclops that Sinbad had to battle, people still insist GPL is king.. Even though the folks who were instrumental in creating and beta testing GPL exclaim in no uncertain terms that the technology has moved on and there are more accurate simulations out there, still many insist GPL is king.. And for them yes GPL is king, doesn't make GPL the most technically proficient sim out there its SIMply (no pun intended) what they dig.... Perhaps if Dave K. makes GPL2 some will finally change their tune, though I'm sure they'll test it out, do some laps, come back into the pits and exclaim (dont' make me say it !!) hahhhahhaha Its no ........ PS: now excuse me while I run some laps in Pole Position... GPL: its no pole position now see you made me coin a new phrase , hahah On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:27:59 +0100, john henry bonham <[email hidden]> wrote: >Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any >racing sims since about 2001.

So in RBR you get the best competition from trees or zebras, as there are no other cars to race against.... hehe. sorry I've heard that RBR is very good but since in GPL your racing against 19 other cars and in RBR its the clock or whatever animal you run into , how can you compare... On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:46:24 +1000, "Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Dont insult GPL like that.GPL was revolutionary while GTR is just hype. >RBR is the new GPL >"john henry bonham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:416f7bff$0$94917$[email hidden]... >> Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any racing >> sims since about 2001. > >

Simple answer is.......... no !

"john henry bonham" wrote... > Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much > fun with any racing sims since about 2001. As a sim, GPL has been surpassed many times over. As a concept I think we need to wait and see if either rFactor or Keammer's next offering (can't think of the working title right now) will take off in a big way. GTR, if it delivers on it's online promise, could attrackt a lot of GPL simmers to it, but I'm quite sure it won't replace GPL entirely. Partly because GTR will inherit some issues from earlier ISI games (having to manually edit files to configer one's controller correctly, e.g.) and partly because driving an accurate simulation of modern racing cars will require a lot of discipline from the drivers. Part of GPL's lasting appeal, I think, is that because of the nature of the cars and the limitations/inaccuracies of the game, you can, in a driving sense, push the boat out incredibly far wihtout getting punished for it, making it simply a lot of fun to play. Jan. =---

"Rich8" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Ahhhhhhhh what a loaded question, which will produce predictable > results in this group... Damn bloody GPL luddites, hahahha... There > will never be another GPL, hell I even wonder if GPL could stand up to > GPL, hahahha..<snip> The point is whether GTR will be to it's predecessors and peers what GPL was, and the answer is almost certainly no. GPL, despite it's now-acknowledged shortcomings, was so far above what had come before it that it basically redefined the genre. Others have come along and done bits and pieces better for sure, but no overall game/sim since has raised the bar as much in one go. Which is natural; the closer you get to true realism, the less you CAN advance in subsequent steps. ISI (and their partners, i.e. SimBin) have indeed come a long way, but no one has yet matched Papy for putting a total package together; physics, graphics, interface, multiplayer, replay capability, controller support, etc. I'd say DK's the best bet to surpass that benchmark, or maybe... (you know who ;-)) But whoever manages it, the day can't come soon enough - I need a good reason to build a new PC! SB

At times, oh so many times, the beauty of RBR is just that, you dont need nobody. That means no cheates, no wreckers, no bulshit jaw-flapping keyboard jockies... There have been nights where you were "free" to race, but there was nobody around, (most of the time they all were all in that latest of 300th consecutive Dega-Tona servers)... Sure I got the "Other 2 games for online racing, but Damnit I love RBR. Rich8 enlightened us with:

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> So in RBR you get the best competition from trees or zebras, as there > are no other cars to race against.... hehe. sorry I've heard that RBR > is very good but since in GPL your racing against 19 other cars and in > RBR its the clock or whatever animal you run into , how can you > compare... > > > > > > > On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:46:24 +1000, "Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> Dont insult GPL like that.GPL was revolutionary while GTR is just >> hype. RBR is the new GPL >> "john henry bonham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:416f7bff$0$94917$[email hidden]... >>> Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any >>> racing sims since about 2001.

Whats RBR? Martin. "Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:416f8e5f$[email hidden]...

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> Dont insult GPL like that.GPL was revolutionary while GTR is just hype. > RBR is the new GPL > "john henry bonham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:416f7bff$0$94917$[email hidden]... >> Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any racing >> sims since about 2001. > >

"MartinKnud" wrote... > Whats RBR? Richard Burns Rally... a great rally sim. http://www.richardburnsrally.com Jan. =---

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zBSbd.279335$[email hidden]... > Part of GPL's lasting appeal, I think, is that because of the natureof the > cars and the limitations/inaccuracies of the game, you can, in adriving > sense, push the boat out incredibly far wihtout getting punished forit, > making it simply a lot of fun to play. Personally I think gpl's main long-term appeal is partly that it's sufficiently hard that it's tremendously satisfying when you get it right, RBR does this well, GTR is okay but it's hard to tell from the demos. But mostly, I think gpl's lasting appeal online comes from it's difficulty to modify. It's fairly easy to alter the ini files in most sims to make the car faster etc. This is great for the modders but imo kills long-term appeal because it takes away the level playing field. I can compare my best Nurby laptime with one done 5 years ago & know that not only am I driving the same track, it's with exactly the same car too. If GTR (or any other sim) wants to be popular, make it easy to mod. If it wants to have lasting appeal though it need to be hard to mod/cheat. Personally I think RBR has got the appeal of the challenge spot on, it's rewarding to drive. LFS has the cheat protection though, and is pretty close to good enough with the driving. imo LFS is the 'next gpl' or at least a worthy candidate, GTR may be, but let's see something a little more complete before comparing it to anything else out there. Malc.

Malc <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:41704c3c$0$59464$[email hidden]...

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> "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:zBSbd.279335$[email hidden]... > > > Part of GPL's lasting appeal, I think, is that because of the nature > of the > > cars and the limitations/inaccuracies of the game, you can, in a > driving > > sense, push the boat out incredibly far wihtout getting punished for > it, > > making it simply a lot of fun to play. > > Personally I think gpl's main long-term appeal is partly that it's > sufficiently hard that it's tremendously satisfying when you get it > right, RBR does this well, GTR is okay but it's hard to tell from the > demos. > > But mostly, I think gpl's lasting appeal online comes from it's > difficulty to modify. It's fairly easy to alter the ini files in most > sims to make the car faster etc. This is great for the modders but imo > kills long-term appeal because it takes away the level playing field. I > can compare my best Nurby laptime with one done 5 years ago & know that > not only am I driving the same track, it's with exactly the same car > too. > > If GTR (or any other sim) wants to be popular, make it easy to mod. If > it wants to have lasting appeal though it need to be hard to mod/cheat. > > Personally I think RBR has got the appeal of the challenge spot on, it's > rewarding to drive. LFS has the cheat protection though, and is pretty > close to good enough with the driving. > > imo LFS is the 'next gpl' or at least a worthy candidate, GTR may be, > but let's see something a little more complete before comparing it to > anything else out there. > > Malc.

Hmmm........gpl difficult to modify ? Thats a new one <g> The whole thing has been hacked; graphics, physics, engine, you name it. > >

"JP" wrote... >>> <snip> > Hmmm........gpl difficult to modify ? Thats a new > one <g> The whole thing has been hacked; graphics, > physics, engine, you name it. Yes, but it was/is difficult. Ever tried making a track? Jan. =---

Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gwYbd.279636$[email hidden]...

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> "JP" wrote... > >>> <snip> > > Hmmm........gpl difficult to modify ? Thats a new > > one <g> The whole thing has been hacked; graphics, > > physics, engine, you name it. > > Yes, but it was/is difficult. Ever tried making a track? > > Jan.

So ? It wasn't difficult enough to prevent it though, eh ?

I agree RBR is one of the most self challanging sims ever, it really makes you work to improve your times. If you get real lonely you can race the ghost cars......... "Plowboy2" <stingre.removethis_@yahoo!.removeit> wrote in message news:FLVbd.98247$a85.1594@fed1read04...

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> At times, oh so many times, the beauty of RBR is just that, you dont need > nobody. That means no cheates, no wreckers, no bulshit jaw-flapping > keyboard jockies... There have been nights where you were "free" to race, > but there was nobody around, (most of the time they all were all in that > latest of 300th consecutive Dega-Tona servers)... > > Sure I got the "Other 2 games for online racing, but Damnit I love RBR. > > > > Rich8 enlightened us with: >> So in RBR you get the best competition from trees or zebras, as there >> are no other cars to race against.... hehe. sorry I've heard that RBR >> is very good but since in GPL your racing against 19 other cars and in >> RBR its the clock or whatever animal you run into , how can you >> compare... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:46:24 +1000, "Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >>> Dont insult GPL like that.GPL was revolutionary while GTR is just >>> hype. RBR is the new GPL >>> "john henry bonham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>> news:416f7bff$0$94917$[email hidden]... >>>> Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any >>>> racing sims since about 2001. > >

"JP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:lEYbd.53$n%[email hidden]... > So ? It wasn't difficult enough to prevent it though, eh ? Nothing is impossible with enough time and skill, and it's taken a long time to produce mods for gpl. It takes a long time to produce tracks, and even graphics updates are only made relatively easy by the use of utils that the community has developed over long periods of time. Your view of the gpl mods doesn't take into account the time it's taken to produce this stuff JP, and the skill of those that have done so. Malc.

Malc <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4170592a$0$44833$[email hidden]...

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> "JP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:lEYbd.53$n%[email hidden]... > > > So ? It wasn't difficult enough to prevent it though, eh ? > > Nothing is impossible with enough time and skill, and it's taken a long > time to produce mods for gpl. It takes a long time to produce tracks, > and even graphics updates are only made relatively easy by the use of > utils that the community has developed over long periods of time. > > Your view of the gpl mods doesn't take into account the time it's taken > to produce this stuff JP, and the skill of those that have done so. > > Malc.

Actually, I have the greatest respect for them and their efforts. That wasn't the point of my original replay. At all. You said it was difficult to mod gpl; the multitude of mods available prove otherwise. Its easy to *mod GPL*. Its hard to make the mods themselves. Seems easy to grasp to me. > >

JP wrote: > wasn't the point of my original replay. At all. You said it was difficult > to mod gpl; the multitude of mods available prove otherwise. > > Its easy to *mod GPL*. Its hard to make the mods themselves. Seems easy > to grasp to me. Seems contradictory to *me*.... I think it's *not* easy to mod GPL or world+dog would've done it. As it is, only *some* people have done it, and they've been sensible enough to keep the really sensitive data mainly to themselves. If they hadn't, world+dog etc, and cheating would have been pretty easy. And that *would* have had an impact on the popularity of GPL, imho. Regards, Rudy ------------ GPLRank: -24

Ruud Dingemans <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ckpq0b$ihr$[email hidden]... > JP wrote: > > > wasn't the point of my original replay. At all. You said it wasdifficult > > to mod gpl; the multitude of mods available prove otherwise. > > > > Its easy to *mod GPL*. Its hard to make the mods themselves. Seemseasy

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> > to grasp to me. > > Seems contradictory to *me*.... > > I think it's *not* easy to mod GPL or world+dog would've done it. As it > is, only *some* people have done it, and they've been sensible enough to > keep the really sensitive data mainly to themselves. If they hadn't, > world+dog etc, and cheating would have been pretty easy. And that > *would* have had an impact on the popularity of GPL, imho. > > > Regards, Rudy > ------------ > GPLRank: -24

Thats true. Maybe the word hack would be a better one. Anyway, Malc stated it was good that gpl is difficult to mod, that way he knows a lap he's running, etc. My point was, that using that example(comparing laps) isn't a good one in gpl, since it has been hacked since almost day one, including the .exe file. And between that file format, and the other ones that have been hacked in gpl, as shown by all the hacks, mods, etc., its obvious gpl isn't hard to hack at all.

In article <41703ba3$0$229$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Whats RBR? > > Martin. > Real-life Blowup Ruby. She's not for everyone and best played with solo.

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> "Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:416f8e5f$[email hidden]... > > Dont insult GPL like that.GPL was revolutionary while GTR is just hype. > > RBR is the new GPL > > "john henry bonham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:416f7bff$0$94917$[email hidden]... > >> Seems to be quite a buzz about it. I haven't had much fun with any racing > >> sims since about 2001. > > > > > > >

-- Pete Ives Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email