Attn Papyrus:

In reference to a GPL post. All I have to say is "GREAT GAME!" and I'm glad you guys went through with plans and ideas and actually DID the game! I personally think you should be applauded since NO OTHER COMPANY has decided to do what you folks have done in the world of sim auto racing games. Once again, Awesome Game!!!!!!!!

Please don't refer to it as a game.. it is a SIM :-) James

No...it's a game. They are ALL GAMES..... GPL, SCGT, TOCA 2, STCC, RC2K, N3, N2, N1, Le Mans 24, ad nausiam.. THEY ARE ALL GAMES..... A simulator is a 6 axis hyadraulic device using multiple monitors powered out of a Silicon Graphics machine, that is used to train Jumbo Jet Pilots..as mentioned in a previous post - that got much praise, and was at onetime described as 'best post of the year'.. So, they're you have it.. Gpl - GAME GAME GAME..... does that make you cry?? Doug

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> Please don't refer to it as a game.. > it is a SIM :-) > James > > In reference to a GPL post. > > All I have to say is "GREAT GAME!" and I'm glad you guys went through with > > plans and ideas and actually DID the game! I personally think you should > be > > applauded since NO OTHER COMPANY has decided to do what you folks have > done in > > the world of sim auto racing games. > > Once again, Awesome Game!!!!!!!!

Ehhhh... of all driving games available, GPL comes closest to being a real sim... Andre

> No...it's a game. They are ALL GAMES..... > GPL, SCGT, TOCA 2, STCC, RC2K, N3, N2, N1, Le Mans 24, ad nausiam.. > THEY ARE ALL GAMES..... GPL is on the very edge between a game and a simulator. A car can't be simulated then ? -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

Here we go again. Ho hum. >Please don't refer to it as a game.. >it is a SIM :-) >James

And thus.. Mr. Semantic spoke... *Thou have gained 5pt of experience in the art of breaking up a thread. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

>> THEY ARE ALL GAMES..... >And thus.. Mr. Semantic spoke... >*Thou have gained 5pt of experience in the art of breaking up a thread. LOL!

Ok, so GPL is the missing link between a gameboy running mokemon and the hydraulics stuff running kennedy airport approach by night with engine 3 on fire and a pouring rain.... Everybody happy with this ?

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> Here we go again. Ho hum. > >Please don't refer to it as a game.. > >it is a SIM :-) > >James

> Ehhhh... of all driving games available, GPL comes closest to being a > real sim... It's fairly realistic...sure....that's it's commercial downfall.

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> > No...it's a game. They are ALL GAMES..... > > GPL, SCGT, TOCA 2, STCC, RC2K, N3, N2, N1, Le Mans 24, ad nausiam.. > > THEY ARE ALL GAMES..... > GPL is on the very edge between a game and a simulator.

As aformentioned - it's fairly realistic - but it's still only a game... Did I say that? No. However - the only attempts to recreate the full driving experience I've seen, is a guy who bought a McLaren chassis from 1989, and slapped it onto the bare bone of a Super-X 6-Axis hydraulic thing... Didn't say it CAN'T be done - just that GPL isn't of similar genre.

> Here we go again. Ho hum. " Please don't refer to it as a game.. it is a SIM :-) James " THAT's why it drives ME mad...the GPL faithfull bursting into tears when GPL and GAME get mentioned in the same paragraph... whilst it's only as pathetic as me slating them, it's still pathetic. > >Please don't refer to it as a game.. > >it is a SIM :-) > >James

:> :> Ehhhh... of all driving games available, GPL comes closest to being a :> real sim... : It's fairly realistic...sure....that's it's commercial downfall. No - it's fairly realistic with only extremely limited options to make it less realistic. That's its commercial downfall. (IMHO). I think a sim with GPL's feel but with some simple tweaks which could be turned on to make it more "driveable" without losing the feel would be a winner. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

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> > > No...it's a game. They are ALL GAMES..... > > > GPL, SCGT, TOCA 2, STCC, RC2K, N3, N2, N1, Le Mans 24, ad nausiam.. > > > THEY ARE ALL GAMES..... > > GPL is on the very edge between a game and a simulator. > As aformentioned - it's fairly realistic - but it's still only a game... > > > A simulator is a 6 axis hyadraulic device using multiple monitors > > > powered out of a Silicon Graphics machine, that is used to train Jumbo > > > Jet Pilots. > > A car can't be simulated then ? > Did I say that? > No.

I know, I just wanted to point out the flight-sim example you put in two posts. Here at work we have a full scale simulator of a roadcar and a truck. Check out http://www.sintef.no/units/civil/transp/simulator/simulato.htm for some info. Pictures will hopefully show up soon. The physics model in the professional simulator we use here have worse framerate, fewer degrees of freedom than GPL, and the physics engine operate at 100 Hz. AFAIR GPL's physics engine is clocking at 266 Hz. The guy in charge of the operation of the simulator was really astounded when I showed him the GPL physics specs found on www.sierra.co.uk. My point is: Compared to the professional market of car-sims AS I KNOW IT (In captial letters, not because I brag about knowing stuff, but because my knowlegde is very limited :) the GPL physics engine is head and shoulders above the rest. I have to agree with you on one thing though: GPL is still a game in that way that I use it for entertainment. But to deny it beeing called a sim is a crime against those magnificent people who made it. To keep my employer happy : The statements about our simulator are my own and should not in any way be connected to my employer. -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

: Check out http://www.sintef.no/units/civil/transp/simulator/simulato.htm for : some info. Pictures will hopefully show up soon. : The physics model in the professional simulator we use here have worse : framerate, fewer degrees of freedom than GPL, and the physics engine : operate at 100 Hz. AFAIR GPL's physics engine is clocking at 266 Hz. The : guy in charge of the operation of the simulator was really astounded when I : showed him the GPL physics specs found on www.sierra.co.uk. Likewise, a lot of the vehicle simulation I have done in the past used fewer degrees of freedom, and didn't come close to running in real time on a SGI Octane. Granted, this is mostly because of the commercial code I was using. The engine in GPL is a simulator, pure and simple. The only thing missing is the interface to the hardware. Stephen

LL skrev i meldingen ... Gamulator. There. Matt K

> A simulator is a 6 axis hyadraulic device using multiple monitors > powered out of a Silicon Graphics machine, that is used to train Jumbo > Jet Pilots.. Not just for Jumbo Jet Pilots. But for ANY pilot that is in an Instrument Flying Training Program. Back when I learned to fly...over three decades ago (1969), I trained for my Instrument Rating in a full-fledged 6 axis device with electronic servos called a "Link Trainer". And when I trained for my Airline Transport Pilot License a few years later, I flew all sorts of simulators...most of which did NOT emulate...or simulate...a Jumbo Jet. But just a plain-jane old B-737 or DC-9. Sr Captain Jim Tester *(Retired ATP) *(ATP - Airline Transport Pilot)

Aside from the articulating cabin, which was the better sim, the old "Link Trainer" or todays non-combat flight sims on PC? -- Kenny L. #14 Generic Chevy PRC Member Wall Scrapers Racing Team > > A simulator is a 6 axis hyadraulic device using multiple monitors > > powered out of a Silicon Graphics machine, that is used to train Jumbo > > Jet Pilots.. > Not just for Jumbo Jet Pilots. But for ANY pilot that is in an Instrument > Flying Training Program. Back when I learned to fly...over three decades > ago (1969), I trained for my Instrument Rating in a full-fledged 6 axis > device with electronic servos called a "Link Trainer". And when I trained > for my Airline Transport Pilot License a few years later, I flew all sorts > of simulators...most of which did NOT emulate...or simulate...a Jumbo Jet. > But just a plain-jane old B-737 or DC-9. > Sr Captain Jim Tester *(Retired ATP) > *(ATP - Airline Transport Pilot)

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> > A simulator is a 6 axis hyadraulic device using multiple monitors > > powered out of a Silicon Graphics machine, that is used to train Jumbo > > Jet Pilots.. > Not just for Jumbo Jet Pilots. But for ANY pilot that is in an Instrument > Flying Training Program. Back when I learned to fly...over three decades > ago (1969), I trained for my Instrument Rating in a full-fledged 6 axis > device with electronic servos called a "Link Trainer". And when I trained > for my Airline Transport Pilot License a few years later, I flew all sorts > of simulators...most of which did NOT emulate...or simulate...a Jumbo Jet. > But just a plain-jane old B-737 or DC-9. > Sr Captain Jim Tester *(Retired ATP) > *(ATP - Airline Transport Pilot)

THAT, I know.. I'm training to get a Gliding Licence next spring...but for the sake of simplicity (some people in here just didn't GET IT) I used the simple - well known term - that will make most people think "Airliner".... Hell, the only Flight Simulator I've had the pleasure of using is the BAe Concorde outfit at Filton, nr Bristol, UK. Doug

LOL how about the Budweiser truck simm, now that's a simm lol

Please don't refer to it as a game.. it is a SIM :-) James NanaKofi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In reference to a GPL post. > > All I have to say is "GREAT GAME!" and I'm glad you guys went through with > plans and ideas and actually DID the game! I personally think you shouldbe > applauded since NO OTHER COMPANY has decided to do what you folks havedone in > the world of sim auto racing games. > > Once again, Awesome Game!!!!!!!! >

Game? .......GAME?........Did someone say G-g-g-game? <G> MS

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> Game? .......GAME?........Did someone say G-g-g-game? <G> > MS > > In reference to a GPL post. > > All I have to say is "GREAT GAME!" and I'm glad you guys went through with > > plans and ideas and actually DID the game! I personally think you should > be > > applauded since NO OTHER COMPANY has decided to do what you folks have > done in > > the world of sim auto racing games. > > Once again, Awesome Game!!!!!!!!

The "G" word is a four letter word you know. Please refrain from using it around here! ;-) -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/ Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

Well, it's the nearest thing to a racing sim that I have experienced on my computer. So, until the immersion experience moves on, and eventually it will, I will continue to call GPL the racing sim. -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

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> No...it's a game. They are ALL GAMES..... > GPL, SCGT, TOCA 2, STCC, RC2K, N3, N2, N1, Le Mans 24, ad nausiam.. > THEY ARE ALL GAMES..... > A simulator is a 6 axis hyadraulic device using multiple monitors > powered out of a Silicon Graphics machine, that is used to train Jumbo > Jet Pilots..as mentioned in a previous post - that got much praise, and > was at onetime described as 'best post of the year'..

Well the New Zealand Airforce would argue with this. They have a flight training simulator for Aermacchis which has no motion, 120 degree screen, hydraulic feedback joystick. They also have multiple 'hot shots' systems which are used for air combat training which have full combat avionics (ie radar) and a simple screen - again no motion platform. It is not unusual to have a simulator with no motion platform. The Air Forces take on this is with a high enough frame rate quite often you don't need a motion platform (doesn't help you in zero visibility conditions of course :-). They get 100Hz for the Aermacchi simulator. Having flown the thing I believe them. BTW the hydraulic stick was great! I think a better definition of a distinction between a simulator and a game is that a simulator will have instructor workstations - where they control the action - failure modes, weather, etc etc. Every simulator I am aware of has instructor stations. -- Bill Ryder SGI New Zealand SGI V-Mail: 234 1456 Systems Engineer Ph: (+64 4) 494 6326 DISCLAIMER: Unless explicitly stated all opinions are mine not SGI's

> Game? .......GAME?........Did someone say G-g-g-game? <G> Don't....it's been done this week already...save it for Monday - I'll have gone home then. LOL

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> MS > > In reference to a GPL post. > > All I have to say is "GREAT GAME!" and I'm glad you guys went through with > > plans and ideas and actually DID the game! I personally think you should > be > > applauded since NO OTHER COMPANY has decided to do what you folks have > done in > > the world of sim auto racing games. > > Once again, Awesome Game!!!!!!!!

Wargamers are the same way. They don't like their hobby to be called wargames. They're "Conflict Simulations" you see. As if moving cardboard squares around on a paper map simulates war. I think it's just that "racing sim" guys like to think of themselves above mere games. But, in fact, racing sims are far closer to the "arcade games" they so dispise than they are to reality. And I'd be perfectly happy to have a calm rational discussion on another thread about my reasons for ststing such.

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> > Here we go again. Ho hum. > " > Please don't refer to it as a game.. > it is a SIM :-) > James > " > THAT's why it drives ME mad...the GPL faithfull bursting into tears when > GPL and GAME get mentioned in the same paragraph... whilst it's only as > pathetic as me slating them, it's still pathetic. > > >Please don't refer to it as a game.. > > >it is a SIM :-) > > >James

-- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

> I think it's just that "racing sim" guys like to think of themselves above > mere games. But, in fact, racing sims are far closer to the "arcade games" > they so dispise than they are to reality. For any other "game" than GPL you'd be right. Other than the fact that we don't have "seat of the pants" feedback in GPL, I would venture to guess it is VERY accurate in it's simulation of the reality of driving a 1967 Formula One car on the circuits of that day... --David Cook