CH PEDALS WIRED INTO MSFF

The other I read something about wiring the CH Pedals to the LWFF, and I thought It would be a good idea to do it since I had two sets of pedal underneath my desk. Did it, and the pedals work just fine with the LWFF. Then I thought I would do the same on my other pc which has a MSFF, and I have another set of boxed CH Pedals I can't use because it doesn't work with the MSFF. So I decided to wire the CH PEdals into the MSFF just the same as I did with the LWFF. And it works! Well to an extent. Although I can see the pedals in game controllers and even assign them to any games, the problem is that they behave as if I had the original MSFF pedals, same precision but the length of the pedals was very short just the same as the original ones. Has anyone tried this before? Or does any of you guys know why the MSFF would recognize the CH Pedals, and they do in fact work but not as they should. I thought that the MSFF and the CH Pedals would actually make a very good combination. The LWFF is the best but the shape of the MSFF is my preferred one since I have long fingers and the LWFF gives me pain on my hands after a few hours. So I would really like to be able to get the MSFF to work wight the CH Pedals. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

> the MSFF just the same as I did with the LWFF. And it works! Well to > an extent. Although I can see the pedals in game controllers and even > assign them to any games, the problem is that they behave as if I had > the original MSFF pedals, same precision but the length of the pedals > was very short just the same as the original ones. did you measure the resistance of both pots? maybe the MSFF cannot deal with the resistance of the CH pots properly ... Lio

On Tue, 21 Dec 1999 14:39:34 +0100, Liutger Franzen <[email hidden]> wrote: That is a good point, how do you do it though? I am sure I would have to buy a device which performs that measurement, can you tell me what is called? Thanks.

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>> the MSFF just the same as I did with the LWFF. And it works! Well to >> an extent. Although I can see the pedals in game controllers and even >> assign them to any games, the problem is that they behave as if I had >> the original MSFF pedals, same precision but the length of the pedals >> was very short just the same as the original ones. > >did you measure the resistance of both pots? maybe the MSFF cannot deal >with the resistance of the CH pots properly ... > >Lio

On 22 Dec 1999 11:50:58 +0100, [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) wrote: By what you guys are saying I take it that there isn't anyway round it this incompatibility. What puzzles me is that I didn't expect it to work at all. In fact when I first wired it into the MSFF it didn't work and I was prepared to abandon my attempt. But my brother suggested changing the wires around on the pots which I tried but told him before hand it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference. Having seen that it does work although not correctly made me think there must be a way round this one. It's a shame though. I regret ever buying the MSFF now. It's a case of if you like the wheel you've got to like the pedals as well because you can't use it with anything else. And it's not even a case of liking it or not, if you want precise braking and acceleration, you need better quality pedals, that means ditching the wheel. The MSFF has to be branded as far as I am concerned the most incompatible steering wheel in the market. But there you go, that's the microsoft we all know anyway. Cheers. Mauricio.

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>Liutger Franzen <[email hidden]> writes: > >> > Well, the logitech uses analog pots (right?) and the MSFFW uses digital >> > encoders (right?) >> >> sure? no pots? so how could it work in the first place? >> > >I don't know about the pedals on the MSFF, but the wheel uses optical >measurments to find wheel rotation.

Well, the logitech uses analog pots (right?) and the MSFFW uses digital encoders (right?) This probably has something to do with it :) -Larry "Liutger Franzen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > the MSFF just the same as I did with the LWFF. And it works! Well to > > an extent. Although I can see the pedals in game controllers and even > > assign them to any games, the problem is that they behave as if I had > > the original MSFF pedals, same precision but the length of the pedals > > was very short just the same as the original ones. > > did you measure the resistance of both pots? maybe the MSFF cannot deal > with the resistance of the CH pots properly ... > > Lio

> Well, the logitech uses analog pots (right?) and the MSFFW uses digital > encoders (right?) sure? no pots? so how could it work in the first place? Lio

Liutger Franzen <[email hidden]> writes: > > Well, the logitech uses analog pots (right?) and the MSFFW uses digital > > encoders (right?) > > sure? no pots? so how could it work in the first place? > I don't know about the pedals on the MSFF, but the wheel uses optical measurments to find wheel rotation. -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

> On Tue, 21 Dec 1999 14:39:34 +0100, Liutger Franzen > <[email hidden]> wrote: > That is a good point, how do you do it though? > I am sure I would have to buy a device which performs that > measurement, can you tell me what is called? I use a multimeter (I don't know if it has the same name in english though - it's called "multimeter" in german ...) for that purpose. the one I have can be used to measure current and voltage in both ac and dc, resistance, battery level and diode voltage. I don't know what these devices cost nowadays, but you should be able to purchase one for about $50 or maybe less at your local eletronics shop. Lio

The MSFF uses optical encoders for the wheel but plain old pots for the pedals. I can't tell you anything about their electrical specifications though. Larry wrote in message <_c184.6405$[email hidden]>...

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>Well, the logitech uses analog pots (right?) and the MSFFW uses digital >encoders (right?) > >This probably has something to do with it :) > >-Larry > >"Liutger Franzen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> > the MSFF just the same as I did with the LWFF. And it works! Well to >> > an extent. Although I can see the pedals in game controllers and even >> > assign them to any games, the problem is that they behave as if I had >> > the original MSFF pedals, same precision but the length of the pedals >> > was very short just the same as the original ones. >> >> did you measure the resistance of both pots? maybe the MSFF cannot deal >> with the resistance of the CH pots properly ... >> >> Lio > >

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>The MSFF uses optical encoders for the wheel but plain old pots for the >pedals. I can't tell you anything about their electrical specifications >though. >>Well, the logitech uses analog pots (right?) and the MSFFW uses digital >>encoders (right?) >>This probably has something to do with it :) >>-Larry >>> > the MSFF just the same as I did with the LWFF. And it works! Well to >>> > an extent. Although I can see the pedals in game controllers and even >>> > assign them to any games, the problem is that they behave as if I had >>> > the original MSFF pedals, same precision but the length of the pedals >>> > was very short just the same as the original ones. >>> did you measure the resistance of both pots? maybe the MSFF cannot deal >>> with the resistance of the CH pots properly ... >>> Lio

I used to use my digital edge F1 sim pedals with my MSFF wheel directly connected, I had to use 2 little programs to get win98 to use the full movement of the pedals (can't right now remember the exact names, if you want to know which ones I'll try and find out for you.) Now I use my F1 Sim pedals using a USB to joystick converter, which gives far better use of the pedals. Vince

Its not designed to be used with other pedals, so where's the problem ? If you really want to use other pedals I see no reason why you can't just put some pots of the same spec as the MS in whatever pedals you have (The MS Wheel does use analogue pots) Just measure the resistance of the MS pots and get pots which match, or even use the pots out of the MS pedals. Alternatively you could use the CH products USB pedals alongside the MS wheel ( I don't know how many games will let you do this though, GPL does) (And you'll need Win98) -- Ian Parker UKGPL League http://members.xoom.com/ukgpl/index.html http://www.ukgpl.com -- > By what you guys are saying I take it that there isn't anyway round it > this incompatibility. What puzzles me is that I didn't expect it to > work at all. In fact when I first wired it into the MSFF it didn't > work and I was prepared to abandon my attempt. But my brother > suggested changing the wires around on the pots which I tried but told > him before hand it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference. > Having seen that it does work although not correctly made me think > there must be a way round this one. > It's a shame though. > I regret ever buying the MSFF now. It's a case of if you like the > wheel you've got to like the pedals as well because you can't use it > with anything else. And it's not even a case of liking it or not, if > you want precise braking and acceleration, you need better quality > pedals, that means ditching the wheel. > The MSFF has to be branded as far as I am concerned the most > incompatible steering wheel in the market. But there you go, that's > the microsoft we all know anyway. > Cheers. > Mauricio. > >> > Well, the logitech uses analog pots (right?) and the MSFFW uses digital > >> > encoders (right?) > >> sure? no pots? so how could it work in the first place? > >I don't know about the pedals on the MSFF, but the wheel uses optical > >measurments to find wheel rotation.

On Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:25:29 +0000, Vince Fisher

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>I used to use my digital edge F1 sim pedals with my MSFF wheel directly >connected, I had to use 2 little programs to get win98 to use the full >movement of the pedals (can't right now remember the exact names, if you >want to know which ones I'll try and find out for you.) >Now I use my F1 Sim pedals using a USB to joystick converter, which >gives far better use of the pedals. >Vince

Please let me know what these programs are located, they could be just the thing I am looking for. Many thanks. Mauricio.

On Thu, 23 Dec 1999 21:03:22 GMT, "Ian Parker"

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>Its not designed to be used with other pedals, so where's the problem ? >If you really want to use other pedals I see no reason why you can't just >put some pots of the same spec as the MS in whatever pedals you have (The MS >Wheel does use analogue pots) Just measure the resistance of the MS pots and >get pots which match, or even use the pots out of the MS pedals. >Alternatively you could use the CH products USB pedals alongside the MS >wheel ( I don't know how many games will let you do this though, GPL does) >(And you'll need Win98) >-- >Ian Parker >UKGPL League >http://members.xoom.com/ukgpl/index.html >http://www.ukgpl.com

That's a an idea. Perhaps I could buy a joystick to usb converter and hook up the ch pedals to the usb port. That in fact sounds a lot easier, since the MSFF can be disconnected from the wheel. thanks for the advice! Mauricio.

On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 21:50:58 -0000, "Peter Hooper"

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>Why do you think the MSFF is the most incompatible wheel on the market.. >Although there have been posts from people who haven't particularly liked >it, there have been just as many from people (such as myself) who have found >it to be extremely good. Personally I have found it to be the easiest wheel >of all those I have tried to set up... never any problems at all. >Just interested to know what incompatibilities you are referring to. >Peter Hooper

Well, in my case the fact that I couldn't get it work with the PDPI L4 game card and also the CH Pedals proved to be such a problem that I went out and bought a LWFF. Prior to that I'd had the MSFF for about a year and I have to say that I still like the wheel. I was just never satisfied with the pedals as they don't give me enough precision for GPL. And yes it is a extremely good product on its own, but if you want to use different pedals, it becomes a bit of a problem -which in the end you can get around, anyway. At the end of the day, it took me quite a few laps to get the feel for the LWFF, but once that was done I can say for sure that in my case the LWFF is far better for GPL and I wish I had bought it months ago. Cheers Mauricio. Merry Xmas.

Me too Peter. My MSFF worked straight out of the box. No problems with DX7a either. The only thing I would love MS to do is to allow you to set the FF and return to center in each profile rather than having to go to the properties screen. I do use different settings for GPL and Nascar 3 as an example. Joel Willstein

Thats a good idea, hopefully they'll do it in the next set of software. -- Ian Parker UKGPL League http://members.xoom.com/ukgpl/index.html http://www.ukgpl.com --