GP3, EA2K, and any other new Sim out there....

For Christ sake...... why don't we let these guys release the damn software before we read into the press releases and the innuendo. We haven't even seen/tested these games... so why are we beating our heads against an imaginary wall regarding their performance before we have even tried them. Perhaps I'm outta line... but let's grow up fellas.... Let's judge the damn game when it's out....a and not on SSs that are a neither conclusive or even accurate to the final product.... Cheers, Shumi Director of Marketing & Business Development PDPI

"Shumi" <[email hidden]> wrote > We haven't even seen/tested these games... so why are we beating our heads > against an imaginary wall regarding their performance before we have even > tried them. Because there is nothing else to do, seriously... -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

"Because there is nothing else to do, seriously..." Or..... we can play the Sims that ARE out now... seems like an idea for something to do in the meantime. Not meant to be brash... just a suggestion is all :) Cheers, Shumi ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ip8l4.2402$[email hidden]... > "Shumi" <[email hidden]> wrote > > We haven't even seen/tested these games... so why are we beating ourheads > > against an imaginary wall regarding their performance before we haveeven

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> > tried them. > > Because there is nothing else to do, seriously... > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world." > > >

Geez Shumi, you left yourself wide open on this one. But I'm not gonna say a word buddy. ;) Slot

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>For Christ sake...... why don't we let these guys release the damn software >before we read into the press releases and the innuendo. >We haven't even seen/tested these games... so why are we beating our heads >against an imaginary wall regarding their performance before we have even >tried them. >Perhaps I'm outta line... but let's grow up fellas.... >Let's judge the damn game when it's out....a and not on SSs that are a >neither conclusive or even accurate to the final product.... >Cheers, >Shumi >Director of Marketing & Business Development >PDPI

At least the hype about Schumi's product came from the horses mouth (so to speak ;) ), whether it lives up to it is a whole new matter, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until we get a chance to see some real reviews. On the other hand everything we have heard about the F1 sims from EA and Geoff C is hearsay that has probably been passed along through a long line of people with additions / ommisions on the way, we all know how people can exaggerate ;) Anyway, as he says (and as goes for his wheel too <g>) no one except the producers and the beta testers have any experience with them, so we aren't in a position to accurately appraise them. -- Ian Parker UKGPL League http://members.xoom.com/ukgpl == > Geez Shumi, you left yourself wide open on this one. But I'm not gonna say a > word buddy. > ;) Slot > >For Christ sake...... why don't we let these guys release the damn software > >before we read into the press releases and the innuendo. > >We haven't even seen/tested these games... so why are we beating our heads > >against an imaginary wall regarding their performance before we have even > >tried them. > >Perhaps I'm outta line... but let's grow up fellas.... > >Let's judge the damn game when it's out....a and not on SSs that are a > >neither conclusive or even accurate to the final product.... > >Cheers, > >Shumi > >Director of Marketing & Business Development > >PDPI

We are racing well enough to please ourselves be sure of that. We want to discuss also. Well, yes... -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I couldn't agree more. It didn't bother me (kind of funny actually) as I expected it from r.a.s (been here for three years :-) ) but I was doubted, criticized, mocked, etc., for just trying to tell people what the full version of RC2000 was like (beta tester) when people here only had screenshots and interviews, and then the alpha and beta demos. No matter what information I gave, it seemed like many (certainly not all) WANTED RC to be a disappointment. It seems like they want EVERY sim to be a disappointment. :-) Whether readers of r.a.s want to believe it or not, it's the often overwhelming negativity that keeps developers from spending a lot more time here. How do I know? Because I've beta tested for three different car sims, and have been told this directly by developers from each one. RC2000 is selling like crazy, and most people now agree that it's the best sim yet. Maybe not at r.a.s where most posters are from N. America and don't have a copy yet, or are huuuge fans of one particular sim, :-) but everywhere else it is the THE auto simulator. I do hope though that something even better comes along soon and will remain optimistic until I have the sims on my hard drive and have given them enough hours of seat time to make a FAIR judgement. F12000, GP3, and WSC are what I'm anxiously waiting for. :-) David G Fisher

No we did not want RC to be a disappointment. It was hyped, we accepted it and were very enthousiast, until we saw the demo. And then boom... it was just a "good" sim. Which isn't a bad thing notherless. And it's normal to be negative. Every title will be looked upon the best on the market. Like in the F1 newsgroup, every driver will be compared to the best one. Or rassm, any new Star Wars movie will be compared to the Empire Strikes Back. Or in the PF newsgroup, everything will be compared to Dark Side of the Moon. On movie newsgroup, every movie will be compared to the best ones. It is simply normal David. Most people here will disagree about it being the best sim yet. The majority of people here say that GPL is. Why are you still trying to convince people with such a lie David ? The majority of people here have tried Rc2k, Americans or not. It is not THE auto simulator, it just the best Rally Racing sim. There is no excuse, we have all tried it. It is fun, very fun, but best sim? Doesn't even touch the GPL game engine. You have never answered me about your Rally racing experience, how can you have a fair judgement ? -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

> > No matter what information I gave, it seemed like many (certainly not all) > > WANTED RC to be a disappointment. It seems like they want EVERY sim to be > a > > disappointment. :-) Whether readers of r.a.s want to believe it or not, > > it's the often overwhelming negativity that keeps developers from spending

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> a > > lot more time here. How do I know? Because I've beta tested for three > > different car sims, and have been told this directly by developers from > each > > one. > No we did not want RC to be a disappointment. It was hyped, we accepted

it > and were very enthousiast, until we saw the demo. And then boom... it was > just a "good" sim. It's a "great" sim. And even though the demo's were clearly released as alpha, and then beta, demos, and I told r.a.s a hundred times the demos were alpha/beta, it never sunk in r.a.s.'s collective thick head because they wanted to see what they wanted to see. Then when the game was released, some came back to r.a.s and ripped it because they had no clue how these cars shuld be driven. When they figured it out, they retracted their statements and ended up apologizing. I could of said, "I told you so", but who really cares. I remember the posts directed my way, and they were VERY, VERY, negative. Just like they are for every upcoming sim. It's why Schumi started this thread. Normal is the same as average and common. Nothing to celebrate there. If the negativity would stop, this would be a much better newsgroup because developers would be here a lot more. Notice how developers spend time at the HG forums? There's negativity there too, but overall it's a better experience for them. How about being better than "normal"? This is where the few people who actually bought GPL hang out on the net and exchange thoughts, and get their news, on their favorite sim. It's the get together point on the net for the GPL club. They're bias and have hundreds (thousands maybe) of hours invested in their baby. They don't want to hear that something better may be coming, or has arrived. Then all the interest in their "work" kind of disappears. Simple psychology. No news there. This topic has been beaten to death. The last thing I feel the need to do is convince people of anything sim related. It's just a game. RC2000 is a huge seller (will probably sell 20 times what GPL sold) and being enjoyed by hard core and casual sim fans all over the world. RAVE reviews everywhere (from sim fans and press) except within the tiny, few hundred member, GPL club located here at r.a.s. Oh no. The sadness I feel. Not sure about that. Demos maybe, but not the full game. I'm so sick of hearing about the GPL game/physics engine. Big, fat, hairy deal. It's a car game. No harder/easier/different, than most others I've played, and I've played it a lot. Just feels like a car game to me. I'd like to wax poetic about the physics engine but I just don't get that flutter in my groin that some here do. Still feels like code which manipulates cartoon images on my monitor. Turn the wheel. Brake. Accelerate. Shift. Pass. Whatever. Never really felt like I was driving a real car. Sorry. Maybe when I really use my imagination I'm able to forget I'm being more delicate with my wheel and pedals than when I clip the occasional stray nose hair. I can run a race in my socks with just the tips of a few fingers of one hand on the wheel, a Coke in the other hand, laughing at South Park on the TV across the room when Cartman demands "authoriti!", one eye on my girlfriend's thong as she walks by, while shooing my cat off the monitor. No beads of sweat in my eyes or smell of exhaust making me want to puke. No g-forces throwing me around my chair. No damage to me or my wallet when I crash......so no fear. Just a game, and lacking in some key areas when compared to RC. I've driven a rally car (just like the Hyundai in RC) of a friend of a friend, in Pennsylvania. Have you ever driven a '67 F1 car? Anyone? BTW, I was watching Speedvision recently and they were showing late '50's F1 cars. For some reason, just like the late '60's F1 footage I've seen, the car's rear ends weren't swerving all over the track. Actually looked very smooth and in control. Hmmm. David G Fisher

David, Read your post and couldn't help but think of some things. With the help of patches you can now create a ral.cfg file to help the realism out. Now you have everyone with different cfg files so you have no idea on comparing laptimes. I don't think I need to drive a real rally car to realize that the car doesn't center pivot in turns. Don't get me wrong, I like RC. I live in the U.S. and ordered a U.K copy. Hope patch 5 for RC fixes alot of things. Anthony

As long as there is a replay, whatever changes have been made to the .cfg file can be detected. Here are a couple of sites where drivers can submit lap times. No changes are allowed to the cfg file. http://www.leagueplay.net/rchsl/ http://www.activescore.com/rally/ The cars in RC don't pivot around their center either. That is an illusion created by the chase view camera position and movement. The only cars I know of that center pivot around turns are the GPL cars at the tight hairpin turn (?) at Monaco. David G Fisher

'GPL is the only sim that center pivot around turns'. Yeah right. What's next, you're going to tell me that RC2000 is the best sim ever? :) Andre

David: they don't. How come I'm so slow around there, and keep nosing into the hay at the exit? You must be referring to the AI, and yup, I agree, but I only race online.... I love GPL; It's the best *racing* sim. I love RC2000; it's the best *rally* sim. For me, my passion lies on the track. I relate to that, that' where I race in real life. Rally is great, but racing against myself does not bring the kicks like against a field of others, where you have time to plan ahead, chase, outpsyche, be outpsyched etc. If I was a NASCAR *** (I was for a while), I'd be going for N3 I'm sure, but again, I am a road racer. Now, I carry no grudges with RC, I even forked out 50 for it, and I don't regret it. Support is good. BUT, here's the point, finally! IF the RC2000 sim was released based on, say, 60s or 70s cars; The Mini Cooper, Renault Alpine, Escort TC (yummy!), I would enjoy it *far* more.It's a bit too much go-kart now, just like the modern F1 sims. You don't get to "feel" the car as well, simply because they are so good...massive brakes, traction, brilliant ride... One of my fav "Movies" is a production of the 1976 Castrol/Autosport British Rally Championship. Escort BDA's dancing in the forest, screaming at 10000 RPM; wheels spinning, mud flailing.....and arms all over the***pit. I'd like to see that in a rally sim, then I'd quit my social life alltogether! Matt

Fact is, I would trust the guys here to give me a more honest opinion of a sim, covering a large enough cross-section, than I would any hype from one person with a 'vested interest' or any of the current crop of mags/online e-zines where these 'reviews' appear. -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

If they don't have a sim, how can they give you an opinion to trust? That's the point of the thread. Ripping a sim before anyone's had the chance to even try it. David G Fisher > >I couldn't agree more. > >It didn't bother me (kind of funny actually) as I expected it from r.a.s > >(been here for three years :-) ) but I was doubted, criticized, mocked, > >etc., for just trying to tell people what the full version of RC2000 was > >like (beta tester) when people here only had screenshots and interviews, and > >then the alpha and beta demos. > >No matter what information I gave, it seemed like many (certainly not all) > >WANTED RC to be a disappointment. It seems like they want EVERY sim to be a > >disappointment. :-) Whether readers of r.a.s want to believe it or not, > >it's the often overwhelming negativity that keeps developers from spending a > >lot more time here. How do I know? Because I've beta tested for three > >different car sims, and have been told this directly by developers from each > >one. > >RC2000 is selling like crazy, and most people now agree that it's the best > >sim yet. Maybe not at r.a.s where most posters are from N. America and don't > >have a copy yet, or are huuuge fans of one particular sim, :-) but > >everywhere else it is the THE auto simulator. > >I do hope though that something even better comes along soon and will remain > >optimistic until I have the sims on my hard drive and have given them enough

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> >hours of seat time to make a FAIR judgement. > Fact is, I would trust the guys here to give me a more honest opinion of > a sim, covering a large enough cross-section, than I would any hype from > one person with a 'vested interest' or any of the current crop of > mags/online e-zines where these 'reviews' appear. > -- > Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) > No person's opinions can be said to be > more correct than another's, because each is > the sole judge of his or her own experience.

The AI cars do at the turn I mentioned. Why? I don't know. David G Fisher

We all tried it David. You think the Americans freaks here will wait ? No they all got it from the Net. They are not dumb like you think. Still, a majority of people here are from Europe, much more than you may think. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Because the physics are too advanced to be modeled in real-time on each and every AI on the track on today's computers, thus they had to dumb-down the AI, even if it's one of the best in any racing game we have ever seen. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

But don't let that stop you doing it yet again. GPL, whatever the strengths and weaknesses of the actual software, has lived a long and active life on RAS because of the enthusiasm of its users...and enthusiasm isn't (a) easily earned (b) something to be ashamed of. Andrew McP... posting for the sake of deja-threaded posterity

Crap! I'm an average GPL player but not an *** and I would love to hear about something new and better. But there is simply no game with a more realistic feel on the market for the moment IMO. I'm into sims since GP1 and despite it's age GPL is still my personal best. I absolutely WANT something better, I'm willing to give up gpl immediatly for that. I bought (too) many sims after GPL in the hope for a better simulation but they all ended up in my shelve. Correct, I'll shut up.

Yes, the AI cars do, perhaps it would have been wise to mention this in your former post. The car you drive doesn't do this, don't you think that would have been worth mentioning? Andre

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>The AI cars do at the turn I mentioned. Why? I don't know. >David G Fisher >> 'GPL is the only sim that center pivot around turns'. Yeah right. >> What's next, you're going to tell me that RC2000 is the best sim ever? >> :) >> Andre >> > The only cars I know >> >of that center pivot around turns are the GPL cars at the tight hairpin >turn >> >(?) at Monaco. >> >David G Fisher

No. You knew exactly what I was referring to. I'll try to be ultra clear in everything I say from now on so you won't have to bother yourself to scold me again. David G Fisher

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> Yes, the AI cars do, perhaps it would have been wise to mention this > in your former post. The car you drive doesn't do this, don't you > think that would have been worth mentioning? > Andre > >The AI cars do at the turn I mentioned. Why? I don't know. > >David G Fisher > >> 'GPL is the only sim that center pivot around turns'. Yeah right. > >> What's next, you're going to tell me that RC2000 is the best sim ever? > >> :) > >> Andre > >> > The only cars I know > >> >of that center pivot around turns are the GPL cars at the tight

hairpin > >turn > >> >(?) at Monaco. > >> >David G Fisher

David, I don't really know what your trying to prove here (I followed your posts in this thread) but please be reasonable: Rally IS inferiour to GPL, point! It really looks impressive and for sure is in that aspect a next generation game when compared to GPL but you'll get bored with it after a while (mark my words: How many R2K related posts will there be next year?) because the realism as implemented within GPL simply isn't there. I agree with you that they are both targeted as being games but the skills you have to acquire in order to get around in a descent way in GPL are a good approximation of the skills (e.g. trailbraking) needed to tame those beasts in real life (according to some people who DID/DO drive race cars for real) which is why it is still challenging after 1.5 year! With R2K everybody can drive right out of the box (no, please no flames on that I only like games when they are practically unplayable because that's not the point I try to make) which I'm for sure you can't with the real Impreza's and Evo's. I know you won't finish a championship bumping around because of the damage model but nevertheless it's almost impossible to get your car wrecked during a stage! This is imho a serious flaw, I really tried hard to get my car wrecked (hitting almost every tree which btw caused immediate unrealistic stops) so I couldn't finish but to no success: the car simply went on. Of course I couldn't have it repaireed for the next stage but that's not the issue: It simply isn't realistic!! I don't know what makes you think this newsgroup is GPL-biased. You're simply wrong here. There's simply no reason for that except for the obvious: It's the best there is at this moment!!!! Believe me: GPL didn't appeal to me at all, I was a big fan (still am) of modern F1 and therefore ***ed to GP2 and later MGPRS2 and didn't like the era (67) of GPL at all. Once this sim "gets" you however the other car-sims simply don't have it. 'm eagerly awaiting GP3, WSC and EA F1-2000 and seriously hope they will be able to conquer GPL (according to the online chat whith the West brothers WSC has got the most potential). Jan.

pfffff... BS! The only cars that pivot around turns that I know of are the AI cars in N1-2-3, icr1-2, and all the other Papy indycar or nascar sims when they recover from a spin.

> If they don't have a sim, how can they give you an opinion to trust? > That's the point of the thread. Ripping a sim before anyone's had the chance > to even try it. David, You fail to understand the difference between 'ripping' a sim product and skepticism over the hype, yours or anyone's, for a product not yet released. I remember those threads here with your devoted defense of RC when the demo gave no expectation that it's would be the best sim...beyond your promise it would be so. r.a.s. is the most knowledgeable and objective single source for information and opinion on driving simulations. There must be a reason the consensus here is that GPL is the best. Marty

You have been very clear about your views and opinions. Marty

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> No. You knew exactly what I was referring to. > I'll try to be ultra clear in everything I say from now on so you won't have > to bother yourself to scold me again. > David G Fisher > > Yes, the AI cars do, perhaps it would have been wise to mention this > > in your former post. The car you drive doesn't do this, don't you > > think that would have been worth mentioning? > > Andre > > >The AI cars do at the turn I mentioned. Why? I don't know. > > >David G Fisher > > >> 'GPL is the only sim that center pivot around turns'. Yeah right. > > >> What's next, you're going to tell me that RC2000 is the best sim ever? > > >> :) > > >> Andre > > >> > The only cars I know > > >> >of that center pivot around turns are the GPL cars at the tight > hairpin > > >turn > > >> >(?) at Monaco. > > >> >David G Fisher

< snipped for brevity > < snipped for more brevity > Got to say it David. You don't get it. It may be your computer/controler setup or your driving ability, or both, but too may people, myself included, continue to play GPL avidly after a year and a half, for it's superior (to all other current titles) realistic simulation of the race driving experience, for your comments above to be anything but laughable...not to be confused with amusing.. Marty

> < snipped for brevity > > > I'm so sick of hearing about the GPL game/physics engine. Big, fat, hairy > > deal. It's a car game. No harder/easier/different, than most others I've > > played, and I've played it a lot. Just feels like a car game to me. I'd like > > to wax poetic about the physics engine but I just don't get that flutter in > > my groin that some here do. Still feels like code which manipulates cartoon > > images on my monitor. Turn the wheel. Brake. Accelerate. Shift. Pass. > > Whatever. Never really felt like I was driving a real car. Sorry. Maybe when > > I really use my imagination I'm able to forget I'm being more delicate with > > my wheel and pedals than when I clip the occasional stray nose hair. I can > > run a race in my socks with just the tips of a few fingers of one hand on > > the wheel, a Coke in the other hand, laughing at South Park on the TV across > > the room when Cartman demands "authoriti!", one eye on my girlfriend's thong > > as she walks by, while shooing my cat off the monitor. No beads of sweat in > > my eyes or smell of exhaust making me want to puke. No g-forces throwing me > > around my chair. No damage to me or my wallet when I crash......so no fear.

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> > Just a game, and lacking in some key areas when compared to RC. > < snipped for more brevity > > Got to say it David. You don't get it. > It may be your computer/controler setup or your driving ability, or both,

Driving ability? Care to explain? Too many people? Only sold around 35,000 copies to begin with. How many people do you think still play it today? Not "too many" I think. If you were referring to GP2........ Ok Marty. If you actually feel like you are in a '67 F1 car, than congratulations. You have a much better imagination than I do. Someone call Schumacher. Marty wants to race. David G Fisher

You're joking, right? Once again, this is where the few people who bought GPL, and still play it, gather to talk about their favorite sim on the internet. Always the same names. Would have to be the same names considering that GPL only sold 35,000 copies, most of which more than a year ago. I suggest you occasionally venture outside of this newsgroup and look around at who, and how many, are playing other sims, and where those people are are from. David G Fisher

> > r.a.s. is the most knowledgeable and objective single source for > information and > > opinion on driving simulations. > You're joking, right? Oh dear. I don't think it's a joke at all. Here, at least, the discussion is not (potentially)corrupted by outside sponsorship, it's not controlled by some major-domo, and the *general" tone of the discussion (subject to rather weird bobbles--I've contributed a few, so I know) is rather mature: there's but a minimal count of "blah blah rulez" and "blah blah sux!"--unlike some rally forums I know . . . . ;) . . . and indeed some GPL forums I know of as well. David G., please direct us to another such encompassiong single source (but see my note about this "single source" bit below). First of all, there's no consensus, since that implies that the whole group (which changes by the day) individual-by-individual *concedes* in an exercise which has set out explicitly to answer the question. T'were there a vote, I think you'd see a predictable outcome, but a vote is not the same thing as a consensus. But more broadly, your point about sales is just that: an argument about sales figures and the market--neither of which, I admit, are very supportive of a difficult simulation which requires a fair bit of committment to fully appreciate (and which, nonetheless, is a game, too--that distinction is a bit tenuous I think). As an argument about *quality* the argument is completely illegitimate, since it relies on a quite specious and absolute kowtow to the wisdom of the Invisible Hand. The hidden inference is (not to put words in your mouth--but you've made the argument before) that RAS is some kind of safety zone where GPL-fans can ignore the rest of the world as it produces more advanced sims like RC2000 (an argument, by the way, which could easily apply to the RC2000 forum at High Gear). It continues: here, the narrative goes, GPL fans bury their heads in the sand and pat each other on the back--funny visual image there, I admit!--and emerge only to *** daring raids by malcontents like yourself, David G. That story, while certainly giving you a heroic status ("David v. Goliath"; McCarthy-ism--insert your own meta-narrative),*[footnote] and while admirably sophisticated (you ingenous sociologist, you!) would be convincing except for at least two things: a) when I sign off RAS, I'll head to the web and check out the RC2000 forum at High Gear to see if there's anything new I need to know in order to further enjoy my copy of RC2000; then to the SCGT forum at GT Insider; and maybe even check out the Unofficial MGPRS2 forum at the Unofficial, for I still enjoy that game as well (sorry Frank!). And yes, there are a bunch of other racing sim/game URLs to visit as well. I may need help :), but my myopia is not a *GPL* myopia. I suspect I'm not alone in this pattern . . . -and- 2) prior to the arrival of GPL, the forum was heavily dominated by discussion of MGPRS2, and N2, and etc. When RC2000 appeared in Europe, it too began to show up. And many GPL folks have posted about it--some positive, some negative then positive, some who still don't like it--JUST as they have posted about SCGT, MGPRS2, etc. If another sim generates the support and critical mass among those "sophisiticated" or "dedicated" enough to use newsgroups (as opposed to the more user-friendly Web), they too will have their turn and will be more or less welcomed, since--crucial point here--in order to generate that support, it's likley they'll be into a pretty special item. So far, it doesn't seem that RC2000, despite its *quite* admirable properties (it's "an excellent game!" to bring up a blast from the past) is doing that. This newsgroup distills . . . but distill what? GPL fans, or fans of that understandable-but-difficult-to-pin-down quality, "accuracy"--a quality which is approached, but never, I think we would all admit, fully reached. This ain't a *** . . . I suspect that a great many of us, like yourself, do that ALL the time--it's how RAS is able help newbies with advice (hardware drivers, notices of new products, etc.) Now hop on down off that soapbox, bwah!--and i'll do the same. --David K. *Indeed, I suspect that it is this self-narrative, rather than RC2000's qualities, which drives your own appearences. But that's okay--we all engage in that sort of thing.

errrr..... Gotta go learn some more english to fully understand this post! I'll be back in a jiffy... <G>

> < snipped > > I suggest you occasionally venture outside of this newsgroup and look around > at who, and how many, are playing other sims, and where those people are are > from. I would be interested to know where there is a better cross section of driving sim players than r.a.c. Marty

Jan Hovius <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Believe me: GPL didn't appeal to me at all, I was a big fan (still am) of > modern F1 and therefore addicted to GP2 and later MGPRS2 and didn't likethe > era (67) of GPL at all. Once this sim "gets" you however the othercar-sims > simply don't have it. 'm eagerly awaiting GP3, WSC and EA F1-2000 and > seriously hope they will be able to conquer GPL (according to the onlinechat > whith the West brothers WSC has got the most potential). > > > Jan. Am I the only one looking forward to the new Trans-Am sim? It's supposed to have great car physics, and internet play. Joel Willstein [email hidden]

That's what motorsims said about AMA Superbikes. Joel Willstein wrote:

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> Jan Hovius <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > Believe me: GPL didn't appeal to me at all, I was a big fan (still am) of > > modern F1 and therefore addicted to GP2 and later MGPRS2 and didn't like > the > > era (67) of GPL at all. Once this sim "gets" you however the other > car-sims > > simply don't have it. 'm eagerly awaiting GP3, WSC and EA F1-2000 and > > seriously hope they will be able to conquer GPL (according to the online > chat > > whith the West brothers WSC has got the most potential). > > > > > > Jan. > > Am I the only one looking forward to the new Trans-Am sim? It's > supposed to have great car physics, and internet play. > > Joel Willstein > [email hidden]

<snip> I would totally disagree with that. Its SAD to be negative. Maybe you are just "normally sad" ?? <snip> Cheers.....Ken