Re: GPL-F3 - Brabham is fastest

"Mark Seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:87sbbp$c7n$[email hidden]... > Chris. > The Brabham has a marked straight line speed advantage over all other F3 > cars. It is for this reason that there is an unwritten law amongst the > regular F3 online racers that the car should not be used. Indeed, many of > the online leagues have banned it. >Why?

I have been dedicating my GPL time (i.e. the time I don't spend working, sleeping) to the F3 cars the last couple of weeks. I have found that among the AI, the Brabham seems to outgun the Lotus and last night I tried a short intermediate race at Monza with the Brabham and was over a second faster than my previous best in the Lotus. I ended up finishing 10 seconds (despite two spins) behind the other two Brabhams and infront of Hill & Clark. Another race I had at Spa in the Lotus, ended with me a few seconds behind the other Lotus's and the Brabhams 15 odd seconds up the road. The Brabams also have been winning more F3 races than they do in F1, maybe it is because of their light weight which would be an advantage with less power. Chris

In article <01bf72d0$74e9b2e0$53241ec4@chris> , "Chris Bloom" <[email hidden]> wrote: > maybe it is because of their light weight which would be an advantage with > less power. All cars have the same power in F2 and F3. Brabham has less drag = higher topspeed, particularly on fast tracks like Monza and Spa. Time to move on to F2 for you! -- Bye, Leo

Why?

Chris. The Brabham has a marked straight line speed advantage over all other F3 cars. It is for this reason that there is an unwritten law amongst the regular F3 online racers that the car should not be used. Indeed, many of the online leagues have banned it. MS "Chris Bloom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01bf72d0$74e9b2e0$53241ec4@chris... > I have been dedicating my GPL time (i.e. the time I don't spend working, > sleeping) to the F3 cars the last couple of weeks. I have found thatamong > the AI, the Brabham seems to outgun the Lotus and last night I tried a > short intermediate race at Monza with the Brabham and was over a second > faster than my previous best in the Lotus. I ended up finishing 10seconds

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> (despite two spins) behind the other two Brabhams and infront of Hill & > Clark. > > Another race I had at Spa in the Lotus, ended with me a few seconds behind > the other Lotus's and the Brabhams 15 odd seconds up the road. > > The Brabams also have been winning more F3 races than they do in F1, maybe > it is because of their light weight which would be an advantage with less > power. > > Chris > >

Too fast for F3. You might fall out when cornering. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- > > Chris. > > The Brabham has a marked straight line speed advantage over all other F3 > > cars. It is for this reason that there is an unwritten law amongst the > > regular F3 online racers that the car should not be used. Indeed, many of > > the online leagues have banned it. > Why? -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

I am not sure about this, Leo... Try testing drag of all the car makes, and see if you can find a difference. Find a long straight, go at 130mph, depress the clutch and measure the time it takes before you the car has retarded to 80 mph... Do this with the same setup for all cars... I am almost 100% sure that you won't find any distinct difference. At least not any difference to cause the performance difference between the Brab and the other cars... I have been wondering about a difference in torque curves, but I haven't reached any conclusions... ---Asgeir---

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> > maybe it is because of their light weight which would be an advantage with > > less power. > All cars have the same power in F2 and F3. Brabham has less drag = > higher topspeed, particularly on fast tracks like Monza and Spa. > Time to move on to F2 for you! > -- > Bye, > Leo

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> I am not sure about this, Leo... > Try testing drag of all the car makes, and see if you can find a difference. > Find a long straight, go at 130mph, depress the clutch and measure the time it > takes before you the car has retarded to 80 mph... Do this with the same setup > for all cars... > I am almost 100% sure that you won't find any distinct difference. At least not > any difference to cause the performance difference between the Brab and the > other cars... > I have been wondering about a difference in torque curves, but I haven't reached > any conclusions... > ---Asgeir--- > > > maybe it is because of their light weight which would be an advantage with > > > less power. > > All cars have the same power in F2 and F3. Brabham has less drag = > > higher topspeed, particularly on fast tracks like Monza and Spa. > > Time to move on to F2 for you! > > -- > > Bye, > > Leo

Asgier knows about my thought from an F3 News group. At one time we were trying to find a torque curve for the F3's but were unable to figure out how (last I remember). My opinion is the same as his with the drag. Set each car up exactly like the rest. Then do what he suggests and you'll find that there is no measurable differences. Do the same with the F1's and again, you'll find no measurable differences. Do the same, but measure the differences from 0-60 mph, and again from 60 to 120 mph in acceleration! You'll see a big difference between each marquee. This makes me believe that either the engines have a different HP or a different Torque curve. I've done this test but with two cars and never wrote down the differences. I'll do it again and write the differences in Time and distance. Nunini had a Torque graph for each Marquee for the F1 cars. With our experience, These torque curves do correspond to the F3 top speeds and acceleration. So I can only assume that the F3's in GPL *are* F1's but with rpm limiters. The same with the F2's. If anyone knows of a test that we can do to get the torque curves and HP ratings, I'd like to know. This would help everyone immensely. -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/ Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

For the same reason that you wouldn't try racing a Ferrari F40 with a Ford I guess! MS > > Chris. > > The Brabham has a marked straight line speed advantage over all other F3 > > cars. It is for this reason that there is an unwritten law amongst the > > regular F3 online racers that the car should not be used. Indeed, many of > > the online leagues have banned it. > Why?

Neither one of you have factored the weight fariable with the drag test so this is not totally valid. you have to remember that the heavier car will have a lot more energy for given speed than a lighter one .......Just a thought MS > > I am not sure about this, Leo... > > Try testing drag of all the car makes, and see if you can find a difference. > > Find a long straight, go at 130mph, depress the clutch and measure the time it > > takes before you the car has retarded to 80 mph... Do this with the same setup > > for all cars... > > I am almost 100% sure that you won't find any distinct difference. At least not > > any difference to cause the performance difference between the Brab and the > > other cars... > > I have been wondering about a difference in torque curves, but I haven't reached

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> > any conclusions... > > ---Asgeir--- > > > > maybe it is because of their light weight which would be an

advantage with

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> > > > less power. > > > All cars have the same power in F2 and F3. Brabham has less drag = > > > higher topspeed, particularly on fast tracks like Monza and Spa. > > > Time to move on to F2 for you! > > > -- > > > Bye, > > > Leo > Asgier knows about my thought from an F3 News group. At one time we > were trying to find a torque curve for the F3's but were unable to > figure out how (last I remember). My opinion is the same as his with > the drag. > Set each car up exactly like the rest. Then do what he suggests and > you'll find that there is no measurable differences. Do the same with > the F1's and again, you'll find no measurable differences. Do the same, > but measure the differences from 0-60 mph, and again from 60 to 120 mph > in acceleration! You'll see a big difference between each marquee. > This makes me believe that either the engines have a different HP or a > different Torque curve. I've done this test but with two cars and never > wrote down the differences. I'll do it again and write the differences > in Time and distance. > Nunini had a Torque graph for each Marquee for the F1 cars. With our > experience, These torque curves do correspond to the F3 top speeds and > acceleration. So I can only assume that the F3's in GPL *are* F1's but > with rpm limiters. The same with the F2's. > If anyone knows of a test that we can do to get the torque curves and > HP ratings, I'd like to know. This would help everyone immensely. > -- > ========================================= > Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? > ========================================= > http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/ > Racing online with the help of...... > Race Communications Association > Holodyne Engineering > Mystic Music > (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

Hi, The same is true for the Repco's advantage in F2 as it is in F3. That is why it is considered bad sportmanship for a faster, more experienced driver to use the Repco in F2 or F3. As a new driver to GPL, the Repco in F2 & F3 will enable the new driver to have a chance at being competitive with other more experienced drivers, but once experience and speed is gained, it is a good idea to go for one of the other Marques in F2/F3, when racing on-line. The F2 Repco is nearly as fast as the F1 Cooper. :) FWIW, in F2/F3 the Repco is fastest, folllowed by the Eagle, Lotus & Ferrari, which are all pretty much on a par with each other, the Eagle has slightly more top end power than the Lotus & Ferrari, but the Ferrari is the best handler and most stable, followed closely by the Lotus. Top end and acceleration performance of the Lotus & Ferrari is practically identical, so go with the one you feel most comfortable with. The Coventry, Murasama then BRM are next in that order as far as performance stakes in F2/F3. Cheers, Ron > For the same reason that you wouldn't try racing a Ferrari F40 with a Ford

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> I guess! > MS > > > Chris. > > > The Brabham has a marked straight line speed advantage over all

other F3 > > > cars. It is for this reason that there is an unwritten law amongst the > > > regular F3 online racers that the car should not be used. Indeed, many > of > > > the online leagues have banned it. > > Why?

Do you REALLY realise what you're saying? Flashback to 1967. Colin Chapman, John Cooper, Dan Gurney, Enzo himself, Sochiro Honda and Tony Rudd surround Jack Brabham and Dennis Hulme in the Brabham pit at the Kyalami circuit. Ron Tauranac and Phil Irving just happen to be in attendance for the first GP of the season, looking forward to seeing the car in action. Chapman clears his throat and says "Errmmm, Jack old chap. Got a minute? Good! Well, it's just that you can't enter the Championship this year because the Brabham is too fast. It was too fast last year and we let that go but twice in a row is a bit much! The other fellows and I have decided that it's just not on that your two cars should have an advantage. Okay? Jack clears his throat, looks at Ron Tauranac and winks, clears his throat and says "Colin.....piss off!!" -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- > Hi, > The same is true for the Repco's advantage in F2 as it is in F3. > That is why it is considered bad sportmanship for a faster, more > experienced driver to use the Repco in F2 or F3. > As a new driver to GPL, the Repco in F2 & F3 will enable the new driver > to have a chance at being competitive with other more experienced > drivers, but once experience and speed is gained, it is a good idea to > go for one of the other Marques in F2/F3, when racing on-line. > The F2 Repco is nearly as fast as the F1 Cooper. :) > FWIW, in F2/F3 the Repco is fastest, folllowed by the Eagle, Lotus & > Ferrari, which are all pretty much on a par with each other, the Eagle > has slightly more top end power than the Lotus & Ferrari, but the > Ferrari is the best handler and most stable, followed closely by the > Lotus. > Top end and acceleration performance of the Lotus & Ferrari is > practically identical, so go with the one you feel most comfortable > with. > The Coventry, Murasama then BRM are next in that order as far as > performance stakes in F2/F3. > Cheers, > Ron > > For the same reason that you wouldn't try racing a Ferrari F40 with a > Ford > > I guess! > > MS > > > > Chris. > > > > The Brabham has a marked straight line speed advantage over all > other F3 > > > > cars. It is for this reason that there is an unwritten law > amongst the > > > > regular F3 online racers that the car should not be used. Indeed, > many > > of > > > > the online leagues have banned it. > > > Why? -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

He cleared his throat twice because he was drinking a Fosters at the time and it produces a lot of phlegm. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

Having a few "down" there, Bruce? :9 ==-----

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> Do you REALLY realise what you're saying? > Flashback to 1967. Colin Chapman, John Cooper, Dan Gurney, Enzo himself, > Sochiro Honda and Tony Rudd surround Jack Brabham and Dennis Hulme in the > Brabham pit at the Kyalami circuit. Ron Tauranac and Phil Irving just > happen to be in attendance for the first GP of the season, looking forward > to seeing the car in action. > Chapman clears his throat and says "Errmmm, Jack old chap. Got a minute? > Good! Well, it's just that you can't enter the Championship this year > because the Brabham is too fast. It was too fast last year and we let that > go but twice in a row is a bit much! The other fellows and I have decided > that it's just not on that your two cars should have an advantage. Okay? > Jack clears his throat, looks at Ron Tauranac and winks, clears his throat > and says "Colin.....piss off!!" > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > ---------------------------

You can also say the same thing about a show room stock SCCA race where someone brings in a formula one racing car and declares it to be a show room stock car. It is a very close comparison.

In that case, the BRM should trundle on forever, because it is so insanely heavy... I would think that the difference in stored energy has less to say than the drag variable... The drag force is acceleratingly increasing with speed (at a factor V*V*V), the stored energy is increasing constantly. If we found a BRM to roll shorter than the Brab, the drag must be way, way higher, since the bigger weight of the BRM points in one direction, and the drag in the opposite... Clumsily put, but you get the idea. ---Asgeir--- > Neither one of you have factored the weight fariable with the drag test so > this is not totally valid. you have to remember that the heavier car will > have a lot more energy for given speed than a lighter one .......Just a > thought > MS

Bruce, your wit is as acidic as ever (much like the Fosters). <G> That was a nice piece of prose but in terms of running contemporary leagues online, a more fitting analogy would be the banning of Mr Ecclestones Brabham fan car! Mark ==-----

LOL, personally, being an ex Taswegian, i am a Boags man myself.. :)) I remember being back at a race meet that was held at Longford quite a few years ago and some guy ended up getting pissed and wandering on to the track in the middle of a display lap for the classic race cars, to have a closer look at the beeeauutifulll machinery, as said by him.. The police removed him from the track and as he was being re-located into the crowd (they didn't crack down too *** passive revellers back then) the police were overheard saying to the happy chappy, "the only reason you are not been thrown out of the meet, is because you are at least drinking Tasmanian beer, not that crappy mainland Fosters rubbish. :) Cheers, Ron

Yep...but not Fosters (urrk!) Grolsch. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- > Having a few "down" there, Bruce? > :9 > > He cleared his throat twice because he was drinking a Fosters at the time > > and it produces a lot of phlegm. > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News > ==---------- > > http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! > > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers > ==----- -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

That was a JOKE, Joyce!! :-) -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- > > Do you REALLY realise what you're saying? > > Flashback to 1967. Colin Chapman, John Cooper, Dan Gurney, Enzo himself, > > Sochiro Honda and Tony Rudd surround Jack Brabham and Dennis Hulme in the > > Brabham pit at the Kyalami circuit. Ron Tauranac and Phil Irving just > > happen to be in attendance for the first GP of the season, looking forward > > to seeing the car in action. > > Chapman clears his throat and says "Errmmm, Jack old chap. Got a minute? > > Good! Well, it's just that you can't enter the Championship this year > > because the Brabham is too fast. It was too fast last year and we let that > > go but twice in a row is a bit much! The other fellows and I have decided > > that it's just not on that your two cars should have an advantage. Okay? > > Jack clears his throat, looks at Ron Tauranac and winks, clears his throat > > and says "Colin.....piss off!!" > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > You can also say the same thing about a show room stock SCCA race where > someone brings in a formula one racing car and declares it to be a show > room stock car. It is a very close comparison. -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

Oh, yes. That is definitely the best analogy, Mark. Ah well.....back to the Fosters! :-) -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- > Bruce, your wit is as acidic as ever (much like the Fosters). <G> > That was a nice piece of prose but in terms of running contemporary leagues > online, a more fitting analogy would be the banning of Mr Ecclestones > Brabham fan car! > Mark > > He cleared his throat twice because he was drinking a Fosters at the time > > and it produces a lot of phlegm. > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News > ==---------- > > http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! > > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers > ==----- -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

LOL!! I like Tassie beers......they seem to have a distinctly different flavour that sits well with my palate! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----