That's what some believe, actually. Either way they re-wrote the file format
for the demo so it CAN;T be used in Nascar Legends without some serious
work, so far no one has been able to do that.
--
Chris Arndt
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.
- Euripides
It's so easy to laugh. It's so easy to hate.
It takes strength to be gentle and kind.
- Stephen Morrissey
Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:9hcu4.6971$[email hidden]...
> ...Sierra testing out a new track encryption scheme for N4?
>
> Marc.
>
> --
>
****************************************************************************
> Marc Collins
> [email hidden]
>
> Computers will never equal humans until they make mistakes and
> blame them on other computers.
>
****************************************************************************
>
>
>
Given the relatively tiny market for NL compared to N3, they must have had
some serious reason for re-writing the format--since it would take extra
work to do so!!!!!
How big is the demo including Daytona? I would consider installing it just
to run Daytona and have it alongside my NL full version.
One big advantage of the Papy sims to date has been what I consider the
intelligent use of partially open programming...the core engine is
protected, but user-created add-ons are fairly easy to plop in. If the
publishers (Sierra) had any brains and looked at other game genres, they
would encourage this trend. Looks like, as usual, things are going in the
opposite direction.
Marc.
"Chris Arndt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> That's what some believe, actually. Either way they re-wrote the fileformat
****************************************************************************
****************************************************************************
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Quoted text (25 lines)
> for the demo so it CAN;T be used in Nascar Legends without some serious > work, so far no one has been able to do that. > > -- > > Chris Arndt > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. > - Euripides > It's so easy to laugh. It's so easy to hate. > It takes strength to be gentle and kind. > - Stephen Morrissey > > > > > Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9hcu4.6971$[email hidden]... > > ...Sierra testing out a new track encryption scheme for N4? > > > > Marc. > > > > -- > > >Quoted text (7 lines)
> > Marc Collins > > [email hidden] > > > > Computers will never equal humans until they make mistakes and > > blame them on other computers. > > >You don't have the demo CD do you?
Eric
"Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Zeiu4.8329$[email hidden]...
> Given the relatively tiny market for NL compared to N3, they musthave had
> some serious reason for re-writing the format--since it would takeextra
> work to do so!!!!!
I have it.........
"Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:kqku4.10927$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (13 lines)
> You don't have the demo CD do you? > > Eric > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Zeiu4.8329$[email hidden]... > > Given the relatively tiny market for NL compared to N3, they must > have had > > some serious reason for re-writing the format--since it would take > extra > > work to do so!!!!! > >Eric, where can we buy the CD? I'd be happy to.
Been bidding on ebay but they keep going up
to about $30.00. The Daytona program is sold
out from the publisher. Any help would be welcome!
buzard
"Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:kqku4.10927$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (13 lines)
> You don't have the demo CD do you? > > Eric > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Zeiu4.8329$[email hidden]... > > Given the relatively tiny market for NL compared to N3, they must > have had > > some serious reason for re-writing the format--since it would take > extra > > work to do so!!!!! > >On Sun, 27 Feb 2000 16:28:53 GMT, "Marc Collins"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
>...Sierra testing out a new track encryption scheme for N4?
Is there a DAYTONA.TXT file that can be transferred to the N3 version
of the game so that you can run the N3 version in NL and have a
realistic race even if the graphics are wrong?
On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:54:40 -0500, "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>What makes you say that hackers have gotten around to N3? While I've
>seen complete versions of the track posted plenty of times now, I've
>yet to see a separate Demo to N3 converter.
>
>Eric
Eric,
What is the point of this post, it reeks of smugness. I never thought
I would see the day when I no
longer wanted to buy any of your products but that day is
approaching.
No I didn't buy the demo, since when do we have to "buy" demos? I
have purchased a lot of beta code though ...
Jeff
Al - send me the Daytona for NL track off the CD and i'll get it to work
for ya...
:)
In article <wmDu4.48540$[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
Quoted text (24 lines)
> Eric I have the CD and the Demo and every other Sierra/Papyrus title (not > crazy about ovals) but what I want to know is how in the heck do you get the > NL version to work in the full game? Or do you just come on the RAS to taunt > people? > Al Stiff > > "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:89eunb$p1v$[email hidden]... > > What makes you say that hackers have gotten around to N3? While I've > > seen complete versions of the track posted plenty of times now, I've > > yet to see a separate Demo to N3 converter. > > > > Eric > > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:sBCu4.9210$[email hidden]... > > > Sorry, then--it is just the usual situation that NL gets less > > attention than > > > N3. I guess the hackers will get around to NL eventually. > > > > > > >Use the same daytona.txt file - just add the appropriate line in the
cal.all and run the palette fix from uspits. Works great.
In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
Quoted text (9 lines)
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2000 16:28:53 GMT, "Marc Collins" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >...Sierra testing out a new track encryption scheme for N4? > > Is there a DAYTONA.TXT file that can be transferred to the N3 version > of the game so that you can run the N3 version in NL and have a > realistic race even if the graphics are wrong? >How did the completed N3 version get created--without someone hacking it? I
am getting confused...I thought you were implying that neither would run in
their respective full versions without some attention.
I understand that the theory behind this release was that only people in
possession of the demo CD could use Daytona...and Papy took every reasonable
measure to ensure that would be the case. However, once people decide to
post things on the Internet, it is unfortunately immaterial whether they
download a converter and a demo file or just a finished conversion. It is
all technically illegal, but one is certainly more convenient than the
other.
Am I assuming wrongly that Papy would be just as opposed to a converter?
Although with legalistic hair splitting one could argue that, in and of
itself, a converter is less threatening to your agreement with DIS since
only those in possession of the demo CD could make any use of it, but that
assumption relies on a world free of piracy. But when outright piracy is as
prevalent as it is (facilitated by the Internet), people sharing a highly
sought after, professionally produced game add-on that cannot be obtained
through normal commercial channels should be expected.
Since I don't pirate software, I have no problem whatsoever with copy
protection schemes on CDs, making you have the CD in the computer to use the
game (it is a pain, but justified when people steal to the extent that they
do), and so on. Is using the Daytona track pirating? You can check my post
of Feb. 19 for my answer to that one.
Thanks,
Marc.
P.S., Thanks also to you Eric for engaging in these sorts of discussions.
Most corporate reps. would shy away from anything real or controversial. It
seems like you are willing and able to defend a corporate position (a
necessary task), but at the same time operating in the context of the
broader community...often a difficult balancing act.
"Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:89eunb$p1v$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (13 lines)
> What makes you say that hackers have gotten around to N3? While I've > seen complete versions of the track posted plenty of times now, I've > yet to see a separate Demo to N3 converter. > > Eric > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:sBCu4.9210$[email hidden]... > > Sorry, then--it is just the usual situation that NL gets less > attention than > > N3. I guess the hackers will get around to NL eventually. > >Marc Collins wrote:
> snip
>
> Since I don't pirate software, I have no problem whatsoever with copy
> protection schemes on CDs, making you have the CD in the computer to use the
> game (it is a pain, but justified when people steal to the extent that they
> do), and so on. Is using the Daytona track pirating? You can check my post
> of Feb. 19 for my answer to that one.
I have BIG problems with those protection schemes. Some of them even
make it
necessary to buy a new CD drive (SafeDisk).
It's just not very smart to put something in your product that ONLY
pisses off
your remaining paying customers, but has NO effect on the "warez" crowd.
Well,
they probably love a new challenge from time to time, but within a few
days
they DON'T have to swap CDs anymore.
Imagine, car theft protection units would require the owner of the
vehicle to
run around the car three times before being able to start it, EVERY time
they
want to... the thieves just cut a little wire (they'll know) and off
they go...
;^)
--
l8er
ronny
Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?
|\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather,
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep.
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car,
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!
Very well put. I can't really add anything that hasn't gone before, except
to note that Eric Busch has gone a bit quiet recently, and your post sums
things up just nicely. Love the bit about the beta code.......
Steve
Jeffrey Haas wrote in message <[email hidden]>...
Quoted text (20 lines)
>On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:54:40 -0500, "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> >wrote: > >>What makes you say that hackers have gotten around to N3? While I've >>seen complete versions of the track posted plenty of times now, I've >>yet to see a separate Demo to N3 converter. >> >>Eric > >Eric, > >What is the point of this post, it reeks of smugness. I never thought >I would see the day when I no >longer wanted to buy any of your products but that day is >approaching. > >No I didn't buy the demo, since when do we have to "buy" demos? I >have purchased a lot of beta code though ... > >JeffGuess I'll shoot my two cents on the subject. I don't mind having to have
the cd in the drive to play a game, or whether it can be copied or not. I
just wanna buy the games and play them and have fun. I'm sure you are very
correct when taking a poll of the general, often misguided, public....the
average joe or mary on the street who probably only uses a computer for
email, I'm sure they'd say "oh, I don't see how that's stealing" or even be
sympathetic to the pirates. But when in the computer crowd, you'd probably
find a better mix of attitudes and opinions on the subject of piracy.
Everything from the devout anti-pirates that even re-painting a car in games
that allow the cars to be painted in a paintshop, some would call that an
"alteration" of the game, or some type of hack, whatever. They'll see
something changed, and be mad. Some even consider a patch to fix bugs as a
form of alteration, lol. (i.e. If it's not like it came out of the box, it's
been hacked, modded, pirated, etc) Then towards the other extreme you'll
find your everyday "computer joe" or "mary" who thinks making a single copy
for a friend is no big deal, it's only one copy right? Well, if 500,000
copies sold and all those people made an innocent single copy for a friend
or neighbor, they all conspired to rip the company's potential profits in
half. Then of course, at the far extreme are the pirates who do it for fun,
i'm sure some even for profit, who never buy any games. Those are definitely
the bad guys, lol. Granted, anyone pirating is potential a bad guy/girl.
Then there are games like the Quake series by ID Software. The most hacked
game on the planet, and also seems the company encourages this type of thing
by making it so damn easy to hack it, modify it, pirate it, CHEAT at the
game especially, and on and on. It makes me wonder how ID can stay in
business. Alot of pirates and hackers seem to love that series of games for
some odd reason, must be the blood n guts and death n destruction. Hopefully
ID Software will be destroyed by their users for making such sorry ass
games.
Looking back over time, I remember pretty much all forms of copy protection,
and still have alot of old software around that uses it. From the hidden
tracks on floppy disk tricks, which would cut the lifespan of a floppy drive
in half. Then you got the good old "Page 45, 2nd paragraph, 3rd word in the
6th sentence" trick. Then one of the more amazine ones, which I still got,
hehe, the Joan Of Arc game of which I own for my old line of Amiga's, that
used the colored map (non-photocopyable) and you had to match the territory
showing on the screen, with the location on the map. Then you had the
captain crunch cereal prize tricks, where you had the red sheet of clear
plastic to overlay on a 3d looking printed paper in order to see the
"hidden" codewords and such.
All those can be beaten in some fashion, from altering the code files to
only ask for one thing in particular, or make it where it will accept
anything input from the keyboard. Probably the hardest to beat was the capt
crunch and colored paper trick. Couldn't photocopy it, but that could still
be beaten if you ate capt crunch cereal and lucked into one of those magic
viewers. Or even just get a pair of 3d glasses and use the red or blue
lense, hehe.
I guess that's what turns on hackers, the thrill (and ego-stroking) of being
able to beat some kind of protection code or whatever. Speaking of the capt
crunch cereal, they were the phone companies worst nightmare. History
lesson, the first hacker (technically called a "phreaker" now) of worthy
mention was good old Capt Crunch himself. The hacker, not the logo guy, lol.
In a box of cereal back in the late 70's, they shipped a whistle. Well, as
it turned out, this whistle generated a tone that resonated at a perfect
2600 cycles per second. Which, as I'm sure alot of people are aware of now,
but that's the tone the phone companies use. :) And with this tone you could
alter phone switches, stations, routers, whatever the phone system is built
on, make free calls, shut off someone's phone service, get your own free
service, whatever you wanted to do, this whistle made you a "hacker god",
hehe.
So anyways, it's like this, unless or until the companies can come up with a
100% foolproof anti-hack, anti-pirate software, then both will continue to
exist whether it's a big problem or a small problem. All I can do myself is
continue buying all the games I can afford, which is alot and more than I
should, lol. I'm lucky enough to have a very good paying job at the moment,
working for the govt also, so don't try and call me a hacker, lol. I'm in
the aviation field, for what it's worth, so I make good money right now and
have no problems forking out the cash to support the companies that make
these fine games.
However, I feel I should have some bitches to give to them too.
#1 Don't overprice your games, no matter how good, bad, popular or hated. I
spent $62.99 for stupid Quake2 and then had to sit through alot of "damn you
stink" or "you suck, get off my team". LOL, well, I wasn't a bad player,
just that I was dumb enough to NOT CHEAT. So by not cheating, I made it
harder on myself. And my connection didn't help either, which leads to....
#2 Don't favor the cable/dsl jocks who live in Beverly Hills, which is about
the closest place to me that has cable/dsl access, and I live in Georgia!!!
Support the millions of little guys, or they will rise up and kick your nuts
over the moon while you try and hide behind the dozen cable/dsl people left
supporting your stupid games. Right now it boils down to the almighty "Ping
is King" in every game *except* most race sims. (Nascar 3 has a notorious
ping bug that let's you warp into the lead. I've lapped the entire field at
talladega in a 10% race, but yet had the worst "best lap", this while
playing online.) I have nothing against cable/dsl folks, but hey, they are
in an exclusive country club and they know it. I'm willing to pay up to $150
per month for that type of access, but I still can't get it. Hmmm, maybe if
I offered enough money, and drove up the price, seeing as I'd happily pay
that much, well hey, maybe they will jack the prices through the roof and
suddenly nobody but the rich will be able to afford it. I can only wish and
dream, lol. I'm not rich, but I could easily make the sacrifice and part
with $150 a month. So dont' call me rich.
#3 Don't dictate your games based on the computer hardware industry. I've
yet to see a game that utilized my budget homebuilt (450 K6-2, 128 ram, V3)
to it's 100% potential. It seems that only eye-candy is driving the game
industry, rather than realism. Sure, N3/GPL is the best we got right now,
but pay more attention to the realism and leave the graphics where they are,
then we would see a much better overall game. It's getting to the point that
we'll be driving real life cars in motion video computer games long before
we ever see an actual, fully realistically modelled game. That's piss poor.
I'm burned out and that's all for now, I'll give the rest of my list in 10
years when the computer gaming industry catches up to me.
Destin
p.s. I'm a purist, i'm devout in anti-pirate, anti-hack. However, I'm
willing to turn the other cheek if a game company truely deserves it for
being such fools and ripping us end-users/paying customers off. (Hint:
Daytona for N3/NL is a HACK for a game owned by Papyrus. I'm sure Papy
might frown at Daytona for talking lawsuits when the game is owned by
Papyrus. Or is Daytona thinking of buying Papyrus??). Perhaps I should build
my own virtual track and then put it out for sale via the net, or on a
cdrom. Then I could charge $15 for it. Even if it's hacked to death, I still
made 100% profit. I will have to have made $15 for it for anyone to be able
to spread/pirate it. I wouldn't cry, know why? Didn't cost me a penny to
make!! Daytona probably didn't even make the track, so it cost them nothing
to make. Even if Papy made it, didn't cost them nothing to make. So what is
Daytona's complaint? And don't bother to mention "oh, all the long hard
hours it took to make the track". Everyone knows, no matter how hard you
try, no matter what you do, no matter if you are Bill Gates. YOU CANNOT
"BUY" TIME. Unless it's Time/Warner, Inc. ROFL. ;o)
Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:kbHv4.17315$[email hidden]...
