Re: GPL: Braking Question on Preventing Tire Lock Ups

While I'm certainly no expert in GPL (just ask the gang in my league), a couple of thoughts occur. 1. Are you using the stock LWFF pedals? If so that could be part of the problem. They have notoriously soft pedals and I found them almost unusable. Some have had success by using stiffer springs, I finally bought CH Pedals and re-wried them into the LWFF system and that helped a LOT. I also rigged up a "stop" from a rubber door stop that prevents me from braking into the lock up zone. It's soft enough that I can still lay rubber if I need to but it gives me the ability to slam on the brakes and not lock up. Others recommend using a racketball ball. 2. Mess around with the brake bias. I'm so bad at creating setups I hesitate to suggest changes but that can make a big difference. 3. Realize that some marques just flat brake better than others. Ferraris are better than Eagles for example. I'm sure there's a technical reason for this but I don't know it :-) 4. While looking at the AI can be helpful, it's MUCH more helpful to look at real people. Download any of the hot laps for your marque that are on many sites around the web. Then get a good replay utility, GPL Spy Girl or GPL Replay Analyzer and put one of your replays up against one of theirs. It really shows the difference between lines and braking points. 5. Finally, the suggestion about practice is all too true. This is a game that requires a lot of track time. Good Luck, Joe Kelvin Ritchie wrote:

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> I've been driving GPL 1.2 for about a week now. I chose the Lotus and > Watkins Glen to learn. I also have a Logitech FF steering wheel. I have > noticed that the AI cars can brake much quicker than me and they don't lock > their tires like I do. I have tried to get into situations with the AI cars > in which we are neck and neck going into Turn 4, the one the goes over the > rise then turns right. The AI cars declerate much faster and they don't lock > their brakes. I end up having to start braking earlier to prevent lockup and > the AI cars go by me like I'm standing still. I turned down the sensitivity > of the brake in the Logitech profiler and I make sure I'm wearing only socks > so I can feel the brake pedal better. I don't expect the beat the AI cars I > just want to be able to brake a little better. Although I'm still > inconsistent (I can't hold myself back sometimes) my best lap at WG is 1:11. > I can't do it all the time but if I could get this braking stuff figured out > maybe I could. Any braking tips would be appreciated. Thanks. > > Kelvin

I personally prefer to lock up the brakes, especially there isn't tire wear in GPL. I find that locking them suckers up make the car more stable. If I don't lock them up, car tends to want to fishtail. But this is not a method you want to use, just look at my lap time. it shows. hehehe In article <[email hidden]>, "Kelvin Ritchie" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I've been driving GPL 1.2 for about a week now. I chose the Lotus and >Watkins Glen to learn. I also have a Logitech FF steering wheel. I have >noticed that the AI cars can brake much quicker than me and they don't lock >their tires like I do. I have tried to get into situations with the AI cars >in which we are neck and neck going into Turn 4, the one the goes over the >rise then turns right. The AI cars declerate much faster and they don'tlock >their brakes. I end up having to start braking earlier to prevent lockupand >the AI cars go by me like I'm standing still. I turned down the sensitivity >of the brake in the Logitech profiler and I make sure I'm wearing onlysocks >so I can feel the brake pedal better. I don't expect the beat the AI cars I >just want to be able to brake a little better. Although I'm still >inconsistent (I can't hold myself back sometimes) my best lap at WG is1:11. >I can't do it all the time but if I could get this braking stuff figuredout >maybe I could. Any braking tips would be appreciated. Thanks. > >Kelvin > >

To practice braking, I'd suggest finding a course with long straights with flat braking zones and good reference points. Monza is good on the front straight and the straight before the Lesmos and Parabolica. You can try braking several times down the long front straight and then do the Lesmos and Parabolica realistically. The point of going around the circuit rather than resetting is to have warm tires as someone else mentioned. As you get good at it, then to get the ultimate braking capability, adjust your brake bias so that more force is being used at the rear tires, but not enough to lock the rear tires first. It will be obvious when you go too far as you will spin. ;) Once you have the skill to brake hard, the difference in braking power between a near optimum setup and a overly safe brake bias setup is noticible. Be aware also that this should probably be tested and set for the end of race light fuel load condition where the weight on the rear tires is lightest and they are the easiest to lock. If you set it up for a full fuel load, you might find the rears locking first sometime during the race as you burn off fuel. Once you are set up so that you don't have to worry about the rears locking under braking (in normal situations), you can practice hard braking and learn to concentrate on the front tires, learning to "threshold brake" them (getting maximum force). Be aware of terrain undulations that can unload the tires. If you try to brake when the car is light on the tires (such as going over a crest), you might lock the tires anyway. If you don't have the car in good shape approaching a corner, it is safer to brake earlier and start lighter until the car is settled. (If the car is still rotating as you approach the braking zone, say because you completed a pass a little too late, or you put a wheel off the track, and are still correcting for it, etc.) If you feel you have to lock the fronts because you got too deep into the braking zone too fast, then you are likely to slide off the corner since locked tires or releasing the brakes breifly to unlock and reestablish threshold braking will both result in slower speed loss than when not locking a tire. -- Matthew V. Jessick Motorsims [email hidden] http://www.motorsims.com Vehicle Dynamics Engineer (972)910-8866 Ext.125, Fax: (972)910-8216

3 choices: Switch on brake help - just kidding learn to modulate (sp?) the brake put a doorstop into your pedals (have a look at my page) Jens On Sun, 27 Feb 2000 08:42:41 -0600, "Kelvin Ritchie" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I've been driving GPL 1.2 for about a week now. I chose the Lotus and >Watkins Glen to learn. I also have a Logitech FF steering wheel. I have >noticed that the AI cars can brake much quicker than me and they don't lock<snip> --------------------------------------------- [email hidden] Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address Visit my webpage at http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/ for some serious stuff concerning: Radio controlled airplanes Racing simulation, esp. GPL Classic cars, esp. Morris Minor

>I personally prefer to lock up the brakes, especially there isn't tire wear >in GPL. I find that locking them suckers up make the car more stable. If I >don't lock them up, car tends to want to fishtail. But this is not a method >you want to use, just look at my lap time. it shows. hehehe If you lock all 4, then the car will just go straight ahead and feel more stable. You are probably locking the rears first, or changing down too soon, or both, that is why less lockup makes you want to fishtail. The temp that the tyres will reach though will make them pretty useless very quickly. You should be braking just enough so that the squealing is only just heard, without locking. For more stability, you should only change down once you have slowed the car by a long way, and make sure the fronts lock first. F10 view is good for this. Set the balance to 57% or even 58% to make sure the fronts lock first. Once you have your braking down pat, move the balance back just a little to get a little more. Rafe Mc