Steve, just my $.02, but...
If you're going to spend *any* time at all with racing sims, you need
a wheel/pedal combo. IMO, *any* wheel/pedal setup is going to be
better than *any* joystick when it comes to racing sims...especially
GPL. Again, IMO, playing GPL with a joystick is...well...let's say
you're really missing out on a lot of immersion by using a joystick.
If you're talking about arcade racing, well, that might be another
matter.
Joysticks are made for flight sims.
Wheel/pedal combos are made for racing sims.
I enjoy both kinds of sims, and realized a looonnng time ago that the
controller in a sim is kind of like the tires on your Real-Life (TM)
car. In the same way that your tires are what your car uses to most
directly interact with the road, the controller is what you use to
directly interact with the sim. If you're flying, use a joystick. If
you're driving, use a steering wheel (and pedals).
============================
Dave Mack
[email hidden]
(remove "nospamfor_" for correspondence)
In article <uubv4.8016$[email hidden]>,
"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote:
Before I got a ForceRS wheel I played GPL with a Precision Pro.
Its sort of ok - good trick I found was to map steering to the joystick
twist axis - sort of made steering more natural + easier to keep
steering constant while moving stick forwards and backwards for
acceleration/braking.
However, joystick is always has problem that steering and accel/brake
are on the same control - its too easy to spin because as you move
backwards to brake you accidently move the steering axis.
I'd strongly recommend considering a wheel/pedals if you are "serious"
about GPL or other car sims. It feels more natural, steering and
accel/brake are seperated + with many pedals its possible to put accel
and brake on seperate axes which also helps (able to dab brakes while
maintaining accel in a corner etc)
N.b. its claimed that the best of both worlds is to use pedals for
accel/brake and stick for steering as a stick allows more rapid (also
known as unrealistically fast!) lock-to-lock movement.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Quoted text (8 lines)
> What does everyone think of the Microsoft Precision Pro > joystick for GPL. Right now i am using an old Gravis anolog > stick and was thinking about getting a digital one. Is the > Microsoft one any good and what would the differences > be between what i am using now and the new one, I'm not > talking force feedback just a regular one. > Thanks in advance everyone. > Steve!What does everyone think of the Microsoft Precision Pro
joystick for GPL. Right now i am using an old Gravis anolog
stick and was thinking about getting a digital one. Is the
Microsoft one any good and what would the differences
be between what i am using now and the new one, I'm not
talking force feedback just a regular one.
Thanks in advance everyone.
Steve!
I keep two driver profiles - one for my MSFF wheel, and one for my very
basic bog-standard MS joystick (not even a Precision Pro) - so I can
compare times easily. Here's how a few of my best laps compare:
Silverstone: Wheel: 1:29.32, Stick: 1:29.35 (both Lotus)
Watkins Glen: Wheel: 1:05.47, Stick: 1:06.00 (both Lotus)
Spa-F: Wheel: 3:20.21, Stick: 3:20.86 (wheel Eagle, stick Lotus)
Monza: Wheel: 1:29.35, Stick: 1:29.48 (both Lotus)
The wheel is conistently faster, but the difference is insignificant
except for the Glen (which just happens to need very precise placement of
the car). The Spa difference is almost all down to Masta - 170mph with
the wheel, 160mph with the stick.
--
David.
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)
In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (David Buttery) wrote:
> I keep two driver profiles - one for my MSFF wheel, and one for myvery
> basic bog-standard MS joystick (not even a Precision Pro) - so I can
> compare times easily. Here's how a few of my best laps compare:
>
> Silverstone: Wheel: 1:29.32, Stick: 1:29.35 (both Lotus)
> Watkins Glen: Wheel: 1:05.47, Stick: 1:06.00 (both Lotus)
> Spa-F: Wheel: 3:20.21, Stick: 3:20.86 (wheel Eagle, stickLotus)
> Monza: Wheel: 1:29.35, Stick: 1:29.48 (both Lotus)
>
> The wheel is conistently faster, but the difference is insignificant
> except for the Glen (which just happens to need very precise placementof
> the car). The Spa difference is almost all down to Masta - 170mph with
> the wheel, 160mph with the stick.
I remember when I got my wheel I expected that I'd start to go
significantly faster .... however in reality it took a consderable time
to get back to where I'd been with the stick. I think I'd just reached
the point where with the stick I was breaking smoothly and it took time
to adjust to how the pedals reacted (plus I think to overcome initial
stickiness in the pedal action).
Main difference though was reduction in unforced spins due to unexpected
steering change while braking
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
I have a MS precision Pro and have got down to 1:31.10 at Monza
and have won a F3 race at Spa against the AI. The only way I
can use it is to use the fire buttons for brake/gas which
compromises my performance in GPL but seems to work okay in
SCGT/NR99 etc.
The reason I use a stick is that I enjoy other games which
require it.
Chris
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Who knows, with a better joystick you may even go quicker. I'm in the
'unfortunate' position of not having enough space for a wheel/pedal
setup and so have been using a joystick for the last 8 months with GPL.
My current stick is a Saitek Cyborg 3D. Without doubt, the best stick
I've used for GPL. Recently I went back to using a previous stick with
which I had done some pretty decent times. However, I found that under
braking I was all over the shop and I also had to brake earlier. With
the Saitek 3D I can brake much harder without any problems.
I tried the Precision Pro but found its left/right deflection too small
which meant too much precise input required to keep the car in a
straight line. Even at full non-linear, though I've read of others here
who seemed to quite like this stick.
If you do buy a stick, whatever you do, don't use the twist grip for
steering. I can only imagine a lot of frustration developing if you try
that method.
Can you be fast with a stick? Well, to compare my times to those above:
Silverstone 1:28.39
Watkins Glen 1:05.04
Spa 3:18.25 - can do 175mph through Masta no trouble
Monza 1:27.89
--
Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)
No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.
You could, of course, just be faster than me...
I have to say that I much prefer the feel of a FF wheel and pedals to any
joystick. Wolfgang Woeger may be able to do incredible times with a stick,
but hardly anyone else in the top times lists uses one.
The joystick comes about through necessity - I need to get at the keyboard
when I'm working, and I can't afford one of those super-posh desks that
will hold both a keyboard and a wheel (on a retractable shelf), so I have
to take the wheel on and off.
--
David.
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really."
(Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)
hi
Ian Lake said once to me: 7:49 is possible at the Ring.
Well, I was gentle and said maybe and thought hes crazy:)))
Today I sent a 7:51:36 to Schubi and the lap has a BIG mistake in the
last chicane that costet me 0,5 seconds.
So getting closer and closer, if Ian would still be driving more, he
could be the man, but Greger or others will do it some day.
regards
Wolfgang
sorry Ian, you were anyway right with most of your oracles:))
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
oops, meanwhile I have a 7:50:55:))))
its at Schubis page later today
http://www.parc-ferme.de/fastlaps.htm
Wolfgang
PS: I'm 0,5 seconds slower at half way in this lap as I was in 2
7:51:xx laps that I have, so.....:))
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Quoted text (18 lines)
> hi > Ian Lake said once to me: 7:49 is possible at the Ring. > Well, I was gentle and said maybe and thought hes crazy:))) > Today I sent a 7:51:36 to Schubi and the lap has a BIG mistake in the > last chicane that costet me 0,5 seconds. > So getting closer and closer, if Ian would still be driving more, he > could be the man, but Greger or others will do it some day. > regards > Wolfgang > sorry Ian, you were anyway right with most of your oracles:)) > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.(sigh)
I don't know whether to cheer or cry. My PB at the 'ring is 8.28 something
and I drove my ass off getting it. What do guys use ,magnetic tires or
something?
Good luck on your quest :)
Da vid the slow
Quoted text (35 lines)
> oops, meanwhile I have a 7:50:55:)))) > its at Schubis page later today > http://www.parc-ferme.de/fastlaps.htm > Wolfgang > PS: I'm 0,5 seconds slower at half way in this lap as I was in 2 > 7:51:xx laps that I have, so.....:)) > > hi > > Ian Lake said once to me: 7:49 is possible at the Ring. > > Well, I was gentle and said maybe and thought hes crazy:))) > > Today I sent a 7:51:36 to Schubi and the lap has a BIG mistake in the > > last chicane that costet me 0,5 seconds. > > So getting closer and closer, if Ian would still be driving more, he > > could be the man, but Greger or others will do it some day. > > regards > > Wolfgang > > sorry Ian, you were anyway right with most of your oracles:)) > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Before you buy. > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.> (sigh)
> I don't know whether to cheer or cry. My PB at the 'ring is 8.28 something
> and I drove my ass off getting it. What do guys use ,magnetic tires or
> something?
Don't be put off by this. 30 seconds at the ring is about 5 seconds on
any other circuit. If you do not know the circuit really well (which is
the case with me regarding the Ring), that is about the same delay that
is to be expected behind the gods of GPL, you know who you are ;)!
Greetings,
Gregor
