Further Proof that I'll be playing GPL 'till I'm old

Yes, I have almost absolute proof that we will all be playing GPL for several more years, and not some cool, new, racing sim. I say this because of Superbike 2000. It sucks. Big. Much worse than 99 (which I liked). What sucks so much about it is that they majorly dumbed it down. Even with FULL realism and NO help, I can walk a 6 gear wheelie with almost no effort, even through a chicane or two... It's ridiculous!!! So my assumption is.... Everyone complained that superbike 99 was way too hard, so they made it easier (lamer) for all the yokels out there... And you think someone's going to make a car sim like GPL again?? Ha! SpeedRacer

I'm with you on that one. GPL rules the roost (just wish I was better at it)! I predict (Although I hope I'm wrong) that as the market expands, we'll end up seeing more of these crap games masquerading as sims. c wrote in message ... >Yes, I have almost absolute proof that we will all be playing GPL for >several more years, and not some cool, new, racing sim. I say this because >of Superbike 2000. It sucks. Big. Much worse than 99 (which I liked). >What sucks so much about it is that they majorly dumbed it down. Even with >FULL realism and NO help, I can walk a 6 gear wheelie with almost noeffort,

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>even through a chicane or two... It's ridiculous!!! >So my assumption is.... Everyone complained that superbike 99 was way too >hard, so they made it easier (lamer) for all the yokels out there... > >And you think someone's going to make a car sim like GPL again?? > > Ha! > > >SpeedRacer > >

In article <H3rx4.2749$[email hidden]>, c <[email hidden]> writes

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>Yes, I have almost absolute proof that we will all be playing GPL for >several more years, and not some cool, new, racing sim. I say this because >of Superbike 2000. It sucks. Big. Much worse than 99 (which I liked). >What sucks so much about it is that they majorly dumbed it down. Even with >FULL realism and NO help, I can walk a 6 gear wheelie with almost no effort, >even through a chicane or two... It's ridiculous!!! >So my assumption is.... Everyone complained that superbike 99 was way too >hard, so they made it easier (lamer) for all the yokels out there... > >And you think someone's going to make a car sim like GPL again?? > > Ha! > > >SpeedRacer > >

I think the only possible way we could get what we want is to get together and put our money into a big pot and pay someone to do it for us. Unfortunately, I don't think that there are enough of us here to do it, though I would be willing to stump up �50 to get the ball rolling. At my reckoning, there must be at least 1000 of us hardcore sim fans around the world. So, 1000 * �50 each = �50,000. Hey, it's a start. :) -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

> Yes, I have almost absolute proof that we will all be playing GPL for > several more years, and not some cool, new, racing sim. I say thisbecause > of Superbike 2000. It sucks. Big. Much worse than 99 (which I liked). > What sucks so much about it is that they majorly dumbed it down. Evenwith > FULL realism and NO help, I can walk a 6 gear wheelie with almost noeffort, > even through a chicane or two... It's ridiculous!!! > So my assumption is.... Everyone complained that superbike 99 was way too > hard, so they made it easier (lamer) for all the yokels out there... > > And you think someone's going to make a car sim like GPL again?? Definately. Superbike 2000 is almost as bad as Cartrol Honda Superbikes! I had been expecting at least 'some' competition to GP500 - SBK2000 wasn't it...

Pardon my ignorance... I'm new to motorbike sims... But what's actually wrong with SBK2000? And is the original game really any better? I'm thinking of downloading this 50MB monster to check it out based on *your* opinion. All the other opinions I've ever heard about Superbike World Championship (from EA Sports/Milestone/released in '98, I think... that's what you're referring to, right? With the "superbike 99" reference?) is that it was more arcadish than anything else. -- ----------------------------------- Morgan Vincent Wooten mailto:[email hidden] http://members.tripod.com/~morganv/ ----------------------------------- c <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:H3rx4.2749$[email hidden]... > Yes, I have almost absolute proof that we will all be playing GPL for > several more years, and not some cool, new, racing sim. I say this because > of Superbike 2000. It sucks. Big. Much worse than 99 (which I liked). > What sucks so much about it is that they majorly dumbed it down. Even with > FULL realism and NO help, I can walk a 6 gear wheelie with almost no effort, > even through a chicane or two... It's ridiculous!!! > So my assumption is.... Everyone complained that superbike 99 was way too > hard, so they made it easier (lamer) for all the yokels out there... > > And you think someone's going to make a car sim like GPL again?? > > Ha! > > > SpeedRacer > > >

Well, what I was mainly referring to was the 'dumbing down' I felt they did to SBK2000 as compared to the last version. Using wheelies as an example, in (I'll call it SBK98), if you cranked the gas while not tucking in first or second gear the wheel would come shooting up, and if you didn't let off quick would flip right over. And when you did let off, it came shootin' right back down. To carry a wheelie down the straight took _much_ practice and a deft touch to keep it up in the air, but not up and over. In this respect, the physics were _somewhat_ realistic. If you let off the gas completely in a wheelie, gravity will do its work (with a little help from inertia) and bring it right back down to earth. In SBK2000 even if you load up the front suspension with the brakes, then quicky jam on the gas (even in first gear!) and simultaneously sit up in the seat, the front wheel laaaazily works its way up in the air, and the only way to flip it is to keep the gas cranked all through first gear until it eventually flips over. And keep in mind, this is with FULL realism and NO help. So it seems they've made the game much more forgiving (ie: 'dumbed it down'), so as to avoid all those *** reviews from reviewers with very short attention spans. This is all fine and dandy for the average arcader, they'll probably love it, but for the hard-core simmer I'm afraid it didn't live up to my expectations (having played the previous version). It was this fact that led me to my main point, which was: WE WILL NEVER, AND I SAY NEVER, SEE ANOTHER GAME LIKE GRANDPRIX LEGENDS. Which I know has been said many times before, in many different ways, regarding many different reasons, but this is just another piece of proof to toss on the pile. I found the 98 version much more challenging, so if that's what is to your liking, than maybe you should check out the demo, if not, than SBK2000 looks like a pretty game, enjoy! speed racer ps: I did only play it for around 15 min., I'm sure its an awesome game, I'm just complaining about the physics - Like we always do! :) > Pardon my ignorance... I'm new to motorbike sims... But what's actually wrong > with SBK2000? And is the original game really any better? I'm thinking of > downloading this 50MB monster to check it out based on *your* opinion. All the > other opinions I've ever heard about Superbike World Championship (from EA > Sports/Milestone/released in '98, I think... that's what you're referring to, > right? With the "superbike 99" reference?) is that it was more arcadish than

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> anything else. > -- > ----------------------------------- > Morgan Vincent Wooten > http://members.tripod.com/~morganv/ > ----------------------------------- > > Yes, I have almost absolute proof that we will all be playing GPL for > > several more years, and not some cool, new, racing sim. I say this

because > > of Superbike 2000. It sucks. Big. Much worse than 99 (which I liked). > > What sucks so much about it is that they majorly dumbed it down. Even with > > FULL realism and NO help, I can walk a 6 gear wheelie with almost no effort, > > even through a chicane or two... It's ridiculous!!! > > So my assumption is.... Everyone complained that superbike 99 was way too

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> > hard, so they made it easier (lamer) for all the yokels out there... > > And you think someone's going to make a car sim like GPL again?? > > Ha! > > SpeedRacer

Just download the demo, SBK2000 is imho really a superb sim! Andre On Thu, 09 Mar 2000 03:41:53 GMT, "Morgan VW�" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Pardon my ignorance... I'm new to motorbike sims... But what's actually wrong >with SBK2000? And is the original game really any better? I'm thinking of >downloading this 50MB monster to check it out based on *your* opinion. All the >other opinions I've ever heard about Superbike World Championship (from EA >Sports/Milestone/released in '98, I think... that's what you're referring to, >right? With the "superbike 99" reference?) is that it was more arcadish than >anything else.

I already have SBK2000, the demo and the full version, and I love it. I'm asking about the previous version: Superbike World Championship, and what's wrong with the current version as opposed to its predecessor. -- ----------------------------------- Morgan Vincent Wooten mailto:[email hidden] http://members.tripod.com/~morganv/ ----------------------------------- Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Just download the demo, SBK2000 is imho really a superb sim! > > Andre > > On Thu, 09 Mar 2000 03:41:53 GMT, "Morgan VW�" <[email hidden]> > wrote: >

personally if riding a sport bike was anything like sbk2k, id be dead.

Great Idea! I'd even be willing to do some sandwiches and tea Peter Ives wrote in message ...

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>I think the only possible way we could get what we want is to get >together and put our money into a big pot and pay someone to do it for >us. Unfortunately, I don't think that there are enough of us here to do >it, though I would be willing to stump up �50 to get the ball rolling. > >At my reckoning, there must be at least 1000 of us hardcore sim fans >around the world. So, 1000 * �50 each = �50,000. Hey, it's a start. :) >-- >Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) > >No person's opinions can be said to be >more correct than another's, because each is >the sole judge of his or her own experience. >

Huh? Didn't Kraemer already do this with GPL? I can't tell if this was your point or not. :-) Michael.

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> I think the only possible way we could get what we want is to get > together and put our money into a big pot and pay someone to do it for > us. Unfortunately, I don't think that there are enough of us here to do > it, though I would be willing to stump up 50 to get the ball rolling. > At my reckoning, there must be at least 1000 of us *** sim fans > around the world. So, 1000 * 50 each = 50,000. Hey, it's a start. :) > -- > Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) > No person's opinions can be said to be > more correct than another's, because each is > the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Well, good physics are the main thing I want. Only problem is I don't have anything to judge them against. I haven't ridden a bike since I was little kid and even then it was just a little child's version of a moped. And I just started playing these motorbike sims (GP500, SBK2000) so I don't have much to go by there either. Even if SBK2000 isn't perfect it's still fun, regardless. I just don't want to be known as an "arcade racer". :) -- ----------------------------------- Morgan Vincent Wooten http://members.tripod.com/~morganv/ -----------------------------------

IMO, we will never get a realistic bike sim for the PC, the reason is that a bike is steered in a totally different way from any other wheeled vehicle. A PC steering wheel will mimic the inputs required to drive a car, only thing missing is the actual forces acting on the body. With bikes, most of the steering is done by body weight shifting and very little movement to the handlebars, so PC handlebars are unrealistic. The nearest we could get are the sit on bike systems you get in an arcade, but even these leave a lot to be desired as when you are leant over on a real bike, the cornering force will try to push the bike and you back to centre. The sit on bike could have a centering spring to push the bike back but you would still be*** off the side with no forces pushing you back up. I have tried many bike sims and arcade bike games, nothing comes even remotely close to the feel of riding a real bike. A bike is ridden more by feel than what you see, therefore an accurate sim is (IMO) impossible. If I had to choose a bike sim though, my pick would be GP500, I just can't give a reason why ;) BTW I haven't tried SBK 2000. -- Ian Parker UKGPL League [link lost in import] [link lost in import] ==

The simulations aren't that bad... they mimic real life for me. Both on the road and on the PC I drive bikes like a granny. ;-) Jan. ----

That is precisley the point I brought up the other day (I think it was on a different thread), that due to limitations in the controllers available, Bike sims will never be *that* realistic, unless you have a mock-up bike in front of the PC, as you say, with a way to simulate the forces acting on the bike and rider. I don't think there'll be too many takers on that one. >IMO, we will never get a realistic bike sim for the PC, the reason is that a >bike is steered in a totally different way from any other wheeled vehicle. A

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>PC steering wheel will mimic the inputs required to drive a car, only thing >missing is the actual forces acting on the body. With bikes, most of the >steering is done by body weight shifting and very little movement to the >handlebars, so PC handlebars are unrealistic. The nearest we could get are >the sit on bike systems you get in an arcade, but even these leave a lot to >be desired as when you are leant over on a real bike, the cornering force >will try to push the bike and you back to centre. The sit on bike could

have

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>a centering spring to push the bike back but you would still be*** off >the side with no forces pushing you back up. >I have tried many bike sims and arcade bike games, nothing comes even >remotely close to the feel of riding a real bike. >A bike is ridden more by feel than what you see, therefore an accurate sim >is (IMO) impossible. >If I had to choose a bike sim though, my pick would be GP500, I just can't >give a reason why ;) BTW I haven't tried SBK 2000. >-- >Ian Parker >UKGPL League >[link lost in import] >[link lost in import] >== >> Well, good physics are the main thing I want. Only problem is I don't

have >> anything to judge them against. I haven't ridden a bike since I was little >kid >> and even then it was just a little child's version of a moped. And I just >> started playing these motorbike sims (GP500, SBK2000) so I don't have much >to >> go by there either. Even if SBK2000 isn't perfect it's still fun, >regardless. I >> just don't want to be known as an "arcade racer". :)