Re: F1 2000 too easy (?)

Andre Warringa schrieb in Nachricht ... >Woeger and Huttu easily can drive low 1:18 laps as soon as they get >their hands on F1 2000. >I remember when I first broke the 1:30 barrier in Monza, I went to Schubis webpage and looked how fast the guys there were. They were miles ahead! :-)) Frankly spoken I don't want to drive a racing simulation where the AI is in the league of WOeger and Huttu. >PS, allthough this is a very bad point imho, I'm still very pleased >with this game, the more I play it, the more I love it. >Especially setting up the car is a little bit more clearer than it is >in GPL, there are lots of settings, but all the changes made have a >very noticable effect, in contradicion to GPL. >again my question: CAN YOU SAVE THE GAME WITHIN THE RACE? Jochen

> Again, this is no slant on F1 2000. My overall perception of the game > remains positive. Frame rate and AI could be worked on, of course, but IMO > all other arguments against it are void. The sound is adequate and track > accuracy is a non-existent problem. Whether the track is represented > correctly or not is secondary to the challenge it presents. The track isthe > same for everybody... you either deal with its layout or you don't. Your > call as far as I'm concerned. I disagree completely! - what's everyone else's opinion on that ? Track Accuracy is one of the key features that make or break a sim for me, right up there with the driving model. That's why I was blown away by SBK2000, although I don't like Bikesims that much and I rarely play it. Each and every corner in F1 has a history.. stories to tell which lead to fascination. The way the tracks are represented in F12K you can only treat them like boring fantasy tracks - nothing like the real thing, and not the challenge nor the fascination of the real thing. Also, the laptimes are incomparable to reality which is another major flaw. cheers, Alex

On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 02:29:33 +0100, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote: >To my amazement, after qualification was over, I still got the pole, >the 2nd position was a 1:20.400 lap. > >A shame, I think it should take a little bit more practice than about >one hour to get a pole position at 100% difficulty level. >It took me a year to win a full GP race in GPL with the AI at 100% :) Andre, you might want to look at it a little differently. We can both agree that GPL is the most realistic racing sim ever put on a PC. If, after a year, you are able to win a race, then your skills are at the level of a true F1 driver of the period, except you race on your PC and they raced in their cars. If you are that skilled, then you should expect to win occasionally on any other racing sim that is released as long as that sim doesn't exceed the realism of GPL. In other words, you are just too skilled for most current PC sims. I'm serious about this. Think about it. -- * rrev at mindspring dot com * unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m. * http://www.cabal.net

Today I drove for about half an hour on Brazil to learn the layout of the track. With the default setup, I drove laps in the 1:24. Made some adjustment to the setup, raised wings etc, and within 2 laps I drove a 1:19 lap. Surely this can be much improved, my guess is that Woeger and Huttu easily can drive low 1:18 laps as soon as they get their hands on F1 2000. Ok, started a Grand Prix race with the AI at 100% difficulty, drove a 1:20.001 lap within 3 laps, went back to the pits, and saw that I was on pole position. I waited for the finish of the qualification (you can only speed up game time by 2, bad move there EA). To my amazement, after qualification was over, I still got the pole, the 2nd position was a 1:20.400 lap. A shame, I think it should take a little bit more practice than about one hour to get a pole position at 100% difficulty level. It took me a year to win a full GP race in GPL with the AI at 100% :) You can crank up the AI level to 120%, I will test tomorrow what times the AI will drive at that level. I have only 6 hours sleep left before I have to go to work now... PS, allthough this is a very bad point imho, I'm still very pleased with this game, the more I play it, the more I love it. Especially setting up the car is a little bit more clearer than it is in GPL, there are lots of settings, but all the changes made have a very noticable effect, in contradicion to GPL. Andre

Yup same happend to me, pole at first attempt. I crancked up the strenght to 120%. Now the fastest AI does 1.16. But they dont improve their corner speed. The just gain horsepower, so the realisme is gone. What's fun in being unable to follow a Minardi down the straights in a McLaren. ?? Now I have it at 110%. At that level I still get pole, but the speed difference isn't that big. The race is a another thing. Their I really have to push myself all the time to stay competetive. No room for errors their. Not as tough as GPL though. The good thing though, is that the vehicle files (VEH). You can edit them with Notepad. Their you can adjust horsepower, wieght, drag, downforce, balance etc. So some good tweaking, would make them faster and more realistic. An increase in downforce would give them more corner speed, or ?? Havent played with the settings yet, but it'll come Borchers "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Today I drove for about half an hour on Brazil to learn the layout of > the track. With the default setup, I drove laps in the 1:24. > Made some adjustment to the setup, raised wings etc, and within 2 laps > I drove a 1:19 lap. Surely this can be much improved, my guess is that > Woeger and Huttu easily can drive low 1:18 laps as soon as they get > their hands on F1 2000. > > Ok, started a Grand Prix race with the AI at 100% difficulty, drove a > 1:20.001 lap within 3 laps, went back to the pits, and saw that I was > on pole position. I waited for the finish of the qualification (you > can only speed up game time by 2, bad move there EA). > > To my amazement, after qualification was over, I still got the pole, > the 2nd position was a 1:20.400 lap. > A shame, I think it should take a little bit more practice than about > one hour to get a pole position at 100% difficulty level. > It took me a year to win a full GP race in GPL with the AI at 100% :) > > You can crank up the AI level to 120%, I will test tomorrow what times > the AI will drive at that level. I have only 6 hours sleep left before > I have to go to work now... > > PS, allthough this is a very bad point imho, I'm still very pleased > with this game, the more I play it, the more I love it. > Especially setting up the car is a little bit more clearer than it is > in GPL, there are lots of settings, but all the changes made have a > very noticable effect, in contradicion to GPL. > > Andre

Interesting... I was able to get down to the 1m24's pretty easily with the default as well. Something which I attributed to just having driven Brazil for the Top Gear MGPRS2 league. I haven't bothered changing the setup as I don't have the time to fully engross myself in two sims (the other being GPL, of course <g>) right now. I do not nescessarily view this as a bad thing for F1 2000. Although good in it's own right, the cars are not as rewarding to drive as those in GPL. And if we're talking effort/reward balance, F1 2000 doesn't merit the kind of effort we put into GPL or even GP2 (at it's time)to gain enjoyment and satisfaction. Again, this is no slant on F1 2000. My overall perception of the game remains positive. Frame rate and AI could be worked on, of course, but IMO all other arguments against it are void. The sound is adequate and track accuracy is a non-existent problem. Whether the track is represented correctly or not is secondary to the challenge it presents. The track is the same for everybody... you either deal with its layout or you don't. Your call as far as I'm concerned. If the changes you make to your GPL setups don't have enough effect on the way the car feels to you, you need to either adjust your sensitivities or set up your FF to translate the subtleties more accurately (see Alison's pages). Personally I find the default setup increments in GPL to be rather crude. Cheers, Jan. ---- Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Today I drove for about half an hour on Brazil to learn the layout of > the track. With the default setup, I drove laps in the 1:24. > Made some adjustment to the setup, raised wings etc, and within 2 laps > I drove a 1:19 lap. Surely this can be much improved, my guess is that > Woeger and Huttu easily can drive low 1:18 laps as soon as they get > their hands on F1 2000<snip>

The funny thing is: I think EA made the game much easier after the Beta, just give the beta another shot (if you still have it). I drove the beta a 85% AI-level at Monza and could hardly keep up with them. After downloading the full version (Myth) I had to crank up the AI level to 100% to get to the same competitive AI as before.... Perhaps we could use some files from the beta to "fix" the final. BTW, have you ever seen any flags in the game? I have enabled the option, but only get vocal warnings by the pit crew, no flags at all. What are the other difference between the beta and the final (besides the AI-level)? I noticed the Arrows design, the bigger heads, no music (i copied the files from the beta), AI-spread based on Melbourne.

Why reverring To Woeger and Huttu??? Check the GS Big Silver guys at www.gssilver.cjb.net We have the fastest Drivers of MGPRS2 in the team. Marcel Vis already did 1.14.9 on Brazil with all helps off. I myself am at 1.16.4 and think i can get into the 15's too. I think GPL are not the only ones that can crack those times for sure :-) Brian Balgobind Team Director European Department of GS Big Silver "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:[email hidden]...

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> Today I drove for about half an hour on Brazil to learn the layout of > the track. With the default setup, I drove laps in the 1:24. > Made some adjustment to the setup, raised wings etc, and within 2 laps > I drove a 1:19 lap. Surely this can be much improved, my guess is that > Woeger and Huttu easily can drive low 1:18 laps as soon as they get > their hands on F1 2000. > > Ok, started a Grand Prix race with the AI at 100% difficulty, drove a > 1:20.001 lap within 3 laps, went back to the pits, and saw that I was > on pole position. I waited for the finish of the qualification (you > can only speed up game time by 2, bad move there EA). > > To my amazement, after qualification was over, I still got the pole, > the 2nd position was a 1:20.400 lap. > A shame, I think it should take a little bit more practice than about > one hour to get a pole position at 100% difficulty level. > It took me a year to win a full GP race in GPL with the AI at 100% :) > > You can crank up the AI level to 120%, I will test tomorrow what times > the AI will drive at that level. I have only 6 hours sleep left before > I have to go to work now... > > PS, allthough this is a very bad point imho, I'm still very pleased > with this game, the more I play it, the more I love it. > Especially setting up the car is a little bit more clearer than it is > in GPL, there are lots of settings, but all the changes made have a > very noticable effect, in contradicion to GPL. > > Andre

On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 02:05:22 -0600, rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Andre, you might want to look at it a little differently. > >We can both agree that GPL is the most realistic racing >sim ever put on a PC. If, after a year, you are able to win >a race, then your skills are at the level of a true F1 driver >of the period, except you race on your PC and they raced >in their cars. If you are that skilled, then you should expect >to win occasionally on any other racing sim that is released >as long as that sim doesn't exceed the realism of GPL. > >In other words, you are just too skilled for most current PC sims. > >I'm serious about this. > >Think about it.

I don't think that's a realistic comparison. Yes, he's got a year practice. But how many LAPS is that actually? I bet more than Jim Clark did in his whole F1 carreer!! Just to point that out. JoH

Interesting concept and quite right to some extend. Think I just realised how hard it is to set difficulty levels for a game. Thanks. Jan. =--- rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 02:29:33 +0100, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]>wrote:

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> <Snip> > In other words, you are just too skilled for most current PC sims. > > I'm serious about this. > > Think about it. > > -- > * rrev at mindspring dot com > * unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m. > * http://www.cabal.net

I didn't see the option Jochen, but I didn't search for it. I'll try to find out tonight when I'm back from work. Andre On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:48:17 +0100, "Jochen Heistermann" <[email hidden]> wrote: >again my question: CAN YOU SAVE THE GAME WITHIN THE RACE? > >Jochen

I see your point Alex, but that's not the way I approach racing simulations. I "play" racing sims because I enjoy driving these simulated high performance cars in their own right, not because I want to "pretend" to be Schumacher, participating in the FIA F1 World Championship. "Licenced accuracy" is wasted on me. Jan. =--- Alexander Marx <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8b74rs$4mlf6$[email hidden]... > > <snip> > I disagree completely! - what's everyone else's opinion on that ? Track > Accuracy is one of the key features that make or break a sim for me, right > up there with the driving model. <Snip>

Before GPL, I hardly knew anything about what racing was all about. I read lots of books about car setups and driving techniques, and learned a lot from the GPL physics model. So in that case I think I'm a better driver than the average F1 2000 customer, and it's logical that I can reach pole sooner than the average driver can. But I think that it's quite possible to improve my pb with more than 2 seconds after some more practice. After all, I only practiced for one hour, and only changed my setup once, didn't fine-tune it. F1 2000 is supposed to be a sim. In the real world, drivers like Schumacher and Hakinnen drive to the absolute limit, with a whole team of mechanics tweaking the car to get those so important hundreds of seconds out of the car. This sim should be the same. I should only get pole when I've got the feeling that I've come very close to the limit of the track, after tweaking my car perfectly and after learning each corner by heart, just like it does in GPL. In GPL, my pb at Monza is 1.27.81. Yet there are people out there who can do a lot better, some people even drive 1:26 laps there, the world record is more than a second faster than me! This keeps GPL fascinating for me. How do they get these lap times? I drove thousands of laps, tweaked my cars for hours on end, and know every bump of the track. Simple: They are better drivers, with a better driving technique. These guys deserve to get a pole position. In F1 2000, with the AI at 100%, I want to have to work for the pole just like I do in GPL. Not after changing my setup for the first time, and drive the fastest pole within exactly 5 laps. For the average driver, who doesn't go as far with sim racing as most people here on RAS do, who still wants to get pole position, there's the option for setting the AI strength lower. I think 100% AI strenght should be equal to world-class drivers, for the drivers than can drive low 1:27 laps in GPL. We need an AI-tweaker for F1 2000 :) Andre On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 02:05:22 -0600, rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Andre, you might want to look at it a little differently. > >We can both agree that GPL is the most realistic racing >sim ever put on a PC. If, after a year, you are able to win >a race, then your skills are at the level of a true F1 driver >of the period, except you race on your PC and they raced >in their cars. If you are that skilled, then you should expect >to win occasionally on any other racing sim that is released >as long as that sim doesn't exceed the realism of GPL. > >In other words, you are just too skilled for most current PC sims. > >I'm serious about this. > >Think about it. > >-- >* rrev at mindspring dot com >* unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m. >* http://www.cabal.net

True, it took me a lot more laps to drive the times Clark did, but I still keep wondering what times I would drive in a real Lotus 49 on Monza, assuming the physics of GPL are true to real life physics... I'll probably wouldn't make the finish alive :) Andre On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:20:15 GMT, [email hidden] (Jo Helsen) wrote:

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>I don't think that's a realistic comparison. Yes, he's got a year >practice. But how many LAPS is that actually? I bet more than Jim >Clark did in his whole F1 carreer!! > >Just to point that out. > >JoH

I hardly played MGPRS2 (hated it, sorry) so I wouldn't know if 1.14.9 on Brazil with MGPRS2 is just as unbelievable as the times Woeger and Huttu get in GPL. I do think that GPL is the hardest sim ever, because it's the most realistic sim ever (except for RC2000 David, I know), and in that case I have the uttermost respect for anyone who can drive world-record times in GPL, I have more respect for them than the guys who can drive fast laps in more arcade-like games like MGPRS2. Whew, that sounded kind of offensive, don't mean it that way, I hope you understand what I mean :) Andre On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:10:22 +0100, "Brian V. Balgobind" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Why reverring To Woeger and Huttu??? > >Check the GS Big Silver guys at www.gssilver.cjb.net We have the fastest >Drivers of MGPRS2 in the team. Marcel Vis already did 1.14.9 on Brazil with >all helps off. I myself am at 1.16.4 and think i can get into the 15's too. > >I think GPL are not the only ones that can crack those times for sure :-) > >Brian Balgobind >Team Director European Department of GS Big Silver

Wel We at GS BIg Silver think you are totally wrong by saying that rs2 is not a simulation. Ok GPL is cool...but i just don't like driving sigars Anotherthing you are talking bullshit is that you don't have respect for RS2 driver cause they decided to stick to that game? On what opnion do you respect guys...on the game they drive??? I can tell you one thing...i tried GPL for a few days...1.30.3 at Monza (Don't say the track is easy cause you are contradicting yourself then) I know other good rs2 drivers that did GPL for a couple of days...they Did 1.28 at Monza. SO we didn't have the practice you guys got in GPL but stop saying you don't respect guys like us. I bet when the GPL drivers meet the RS 2 drivers in a game like F1 2000...i really think this game rocks when it comes to physics.... you would be surprised. The 1.14.9 is not driven in rs2 but in this game...F1 2000. So try to beat that if you don't respect RS2 drivers and don't have them high. Anyway i'm waiting for the moment that GP2, GPL and RS2 drivers join forces in one game. I don't think the GPL drivers will be the only drivers on top of the list. To respect somebody is to let him stick to the game he likes Brian Balgobind "I respect evreybody no matter what game they like...untill they talk bullshit like this" "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:[email hidden]...

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> I hardly played MGPRS2 (hated it, sorry) so I wouldn't know if 1.14.9 > on Brazil with MGPRS2 is just as unbelievable as the times Woeger and > Huttu get in GPL. > > I do think that GPL is the hardest sim ever, because it's the most > realistic sim ever (except for RC2000 David, I know), and in that case > I have the uttermost respect for anyone who can drive world-record > times in GPL, I have more respect for them than the guys who can drive > fast laps in more arcade-like games like MGPRS2. > > Whew, that sounded kind of offensive, don't mean it that way, I hope > you understand what I mean :) > > Andre > > > On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:10:22 +0100, "Brian V. Balgobind" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Why reverring To Woeger and Huttu??? > > > >Check the GS Big Silver guys at www.gssilver.cjb.net We have the fastest > >Drivers of MGPRS2 in the team. Marcel Vis already did 1.14.9 on Brazil

with > >all helps off. I myself am at 1.16.4 and think i can get into the 15'stoo. > > > >I think GPL are not the only ones that can crack those times for sure :-) > > > >Brian Balgobind > >Team Director European Department of GS Big Silver >

Couple of comments below... On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:22:50 +0100, "Brian V. Balgobind" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Wel We at GS BIg Silver think you are totally wrong by saying that rs2 is >not a simulation. Ok GPL is cool...but i just don't like driving sigars I don't think MGPRS2 is a simulation, I find the physics too arcade like, and I don't think I'm the only one with that opinion around here. That's just my opinion. If you think it is a simulation, and have fun with it, that's great and I respect that. Just don't say I'm 'totally wrong' when I'm just saying my opinion. >Anotherthing you are talking bullshit is that you don't have respect for RS2 >driver cause they decided to stick to that game? On what opnion do you >respect guys...on the game they drive??? Read my former post very carefull, and you will read that I didn't say that I don't have respect for MGPRS2 drivers, but I have m-o-r-e respect for drivers like Woeger and Huttu who can drive 1:26 laps in GPL. Simply because I think GPL is a much more realistic sim than ms2, I hope you can agree on that one. Stating that I said that I 'don't have respect for RS2 drivers cause they decided to stick to that game' is nonsense, or to you use your words, bullshit. Read my friend. >I can tell you one thing...i tried GPL for a few days...1.30.3 at Monza >(Don't say the track is easy cause you are contradicting yourself then) I >know other good rs2 drivers that did GPL for a couple of days...they Did >1.28 at Monza. SO we didn't have the practice you guys got in GPL but stop >saying you don't respect guys like us. Driving 1:30 within a couple of days is good, absolutely. A lot of drivers around here seem to have troubles driving 1:30's after spending much more time on GPL. I didn't say MGPRS2 were bad drivers, or did I? With some knowledge about racing, driving 1:28's isn't that hard. If you would have written that some of your drivers drove 1:26 or 1:27 laps after 'a couple of days', now then I would have bowed for you... 1:28 seems to be some sort of magical barrier for GPL... I entered 1:28 quite soon, but it took me a lot of effort to drive consistent 1:27 laps. >I bet when the GPL drivers meet the RS 2 drivers in a game like F1 2000...i >really think this game rocks when it comes to physics.... you would be >surprised. I hereby accept the challenge :) Huttu, Woeger, Grandis, Lake, start practicing! Clash of the Titans! Well, actually, I don't think these drivers will leave GPL for F1 2000... >The 1.14.9 is not driven in rs2 but in this game...F1 2000. So try to beat >that if you don't respect RS2 drivers and don't have them high. You didn't mention in your former post that those times were done in F1 2000 (quote: Check the GS Big Silver guys at www.gssilver.cjb.net We have the fastest Drivers of MGPRS2 in the team. Marcel Vis already did 1.14.9 on Brazil with all helps off.) 1.14.9 is an excellent time, all respect for that. Just not as much respect as Huttu's and Woeger's GPL records, since GPL is quite a different league than MGPRS2 and F1 2000... (ducking for cover here) >Anyway i'm waiting for the moment that GP2, GPL and RS2 drivers join forces >in one game. I don't think the GPL drivers will be the only drivers on top >of the list. To respect somebody is to let him stick to the game he likes That's true. Didn't say otherwise, did I? >Brian Balgobind > >"I respect evreybody no matter what game they like...untill they talk >bullshit like this" I respect everybody no matter what game they like... unless they can't read and start giving crappy answers. No offense meant, I hope you'll get my point. Andre

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> > >"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht >news:[email hidden]... >> I hardly played MGPRS2 (hated it, sorry) so I wouldn't know if 1.14.9 >> on Brazil with MGPRS2 is just as unbelievable as the times Woeger and >> Huttu get in GPL. >> >> I do think that GPL is the hardest sim ever, because it's the most >> realistic sim ever (except for RC2000 David, I know), and in that case >> I have the uttermost respect for anyone who can drive world-record >> times in GPL, I have more respect for them than the guys who can drive >> fast laps in more arcade-like games like MGPRS2. >> >> Whew, that sounded kind of offensive, don't mean it that way, I hope >> you understand what I mean :) >> >> Andre >> >> >> On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:10:22 +0100, "Brian V. Balgobind" >> <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >Why reverring To Woeger and Huttu??? >> > >> >Check the GS Big Silver guys at www.gssilver.cjb.net We have the fastest >> >Drivers of MGPRS2 in the team. Marcel Vis already did 1.14.9 on Brazil >with >> >all helps off. I myself am at 1.16.4 and think i can get into the 15's >too. >> > >> >I think GPL are not the only ones that can crack those times for sure :-) >> > >> >Brian Balgobind >> >Team Director European Department of GS Big Silver >> > >

HI Andre, sorry that i sounded a bit offensive too...but your message looked like GPL drivers are the best drivers around. Which i in my opinion don't think they are. In my opinion the fastest driver has driven GP2 and RS2 anyway. To his driving skills nobody can compete not even Grandis and Huttu. (I'm talking about Ernesto De Angelis). I think the class of the Titans will come very soon when GP3 will come out i think. I'm looking forward too that...just don't hope i need a 1 GHz comp to play it though I just think that we have three groups at this moment and all three sticking to there game. I can mention a whole row about why rs2 can be considered a sim. But i'm not going to discuss it. I tried this with GPL drivers. But it was totally useless. I think i repsonded to you that the 1.14.9 was in F1 2000..anyway why should I talk about times in RS2 (WR in rs2 is still 1.17.3) The fact is that racing community should stick together and when you are in one game not kick away the others ANyway thats how your message sounded...maybe i misinterperted. Greetings, Brian Balgobind Team Director European Department GS Big Silver PS: Our team has place for all drivers. We started in RS2. We spread our wings to Nascar 3 and now are exploring GPL and searching for drivers End of this disccusion "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:[email hidden]...

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> Couple of comments below... > > On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:22:50 +0100, "Brian V. Balgobind" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Wel We at GS BIg Silver think you are totally wrong by saying that rs2 is > >not a simulation. Ok GPL is cool...but i just don't like driving sigars > > I don't think MGPRS2 is a simulation, I find the physics too arcade > like, and I don't think I'm the only one with that opinion around > here. That's just my opinion. > If you think it is a simulation, and have fun with it, that's great > and I respect that. Just don't say I'm 'totally wrong' when I'm just > saying my opinion. > > >Anotherthing you are talking bullshit is that you don't have respect for

RS2

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> >driver cause they decided to stick to that game? On what opnion do you > >respect guys...on the game they drive??? > > Read my former post very carefull, and you will read that I didn't say > that I don't have respect for MGPRS2 drivers, but I have m-o-r-e > respect for drivers like Woeger and Huttu who can drive 1:26 laps in > GPL. > Simply because I think GPL is a much more realistic sim than ms2, I > hope you can agree on that one. > > Stating that I said that I 'don't have respect for RS2 drivers cause > they decided to stick to that game' is nonsense, or to you use your > words, bullshit. Read my friend. > > >I can tell you one thing...i tried GPL for a few days...1.30.3 at Monza > >(Don't say the track is easy cause you are contradicting yourself then) I > >know other good rs2 drivers that did GPL for a couple of days...they Did > >1.28 at Monza. SO we didn't have the practice you guys got in GPL but

stop

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> >saying you don't respect guys like us. > > Driving 1:30 within a couple of days is good, absolutely. A lot of > drivers around here seem to have troubles driving 1:30's after > spending much more time on GPL. I didn't say MGPRS2 were bad drivers, > or did I? With some knowledge about racing, driving 1:28's isn't that > hard. If you would have written that some of your drivers drove 1:26 > or 1:27 laps after 'a couple of days', now then I would have bowed for > you... > 1:28 seems to be some sort of magical barrier for GPL... I entered > 1:28 quite soon, but it took me a lot of effort to drive consistent > 1:27 laps. > > >I bet when the GPL drivers meet the RS 2 drivers in a game like F1

2000...i

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> >really think this game rocks when it comes to physics.... you would be > >surprised. > > I hereby accept the challenge :) > Huttu, Woeger, Grandis, Lake, start practicing! Clash of the Titans! > Well, actually, I don't think these drivers will leave GPL for F1 > 2000... > > >The 1.14.9 is not driven in rs2 but in this game...F1 2000. So try to

beat

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> >that if you don't respect RS2 drivers and don't have them high. > > You didn't mention in your former post that those times were done in > F1 2000 (quote: Check the GS Big Silver guys at www.gssilver.cjb.net > We have the fastest Drivers of MGPRS2 in the team. Marcel Vis already > did 1.14.9 on Brazil with all helps off.) > 1.14.9 is an excellent time, all respect for that. Just not as much > respect as Huttu's and Woeger's GPL records, since GPL is quite a > different league than MGPRS2 and F1 2000... > (ducking for cover here) > > >Anyway i'm waiting for the moment that GP2, GPL and RS2 drivers join

forces > >in one game. I don't think the GPL drivers will be the only drivers ontop

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> >of the list. To respect somebody is to let him stick to the game he likes > > That's true. Didn't say otherwise, did I? > > >Brian Balgobind > > > >"I respect evreybody no matter what game they like...untill they talk > >bullshit like this" > > I respect everybody no matter what game they like... unless they can't > read and start giving crappy answers. > > No offense meant, I hope you'll get my point. > > Andre > > > > > > > >"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > >news:[email hidden]... > >> I hardly played MGPRS2 (hated it, sorry) so I wouldn't know if 1.14.9 > >> on Brazil with MGPRS2 is just as unbelievable as the times Woeger and > >> Huttu get in GPL. > >> > >> I do think that GPL is the hardest sim ever, because it's the most > >> realistic sim ever (except for RC2000 David, I know), and in that case > >> I have the uttermost respect for anyone who can drive world-record > >> times in GPL, I have more respect for them than the guys who can drive > >> fast laps in more arcade-like games like MGPRS2. > >> > >> Whew, that sounded kind of offensive, don't mean it that way, I hope > >> you understand what I mean :) > >> > >> Andre > >> > >> > >> On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:10:22 +0100, "Brian V. Balgobind" > >> <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> > >> >Why reverring To Woeger and Huttu??? > >> > > >> >Check the GS Big Silver guys at www.gssilver.cjb.net We have the

fastest > >> >Drivers of MGPRS2 in the team. Marcel Vis already did 1.14.9 on Brazil > >with > >> >all helps off. I myself am at 1.16.4 and think i can get into the 15's > >too. > >> > > >> >I think GPL are not the only ones that can crack those times for sure:-)

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> >> > > >> >Brian Balgobind > >> >Team Director European Department of GS Big Silver > >> > > > > >

"Brian V. Balgobind" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Wel We at GS BIg Silver think you are totally wrong by saying that rs2 is >not a simulation. Ok GPL is cool...but i just don't like driving sigars You've to admit that GPL is a better simulation, physics wise. I can understand your point however, since RS2 has a lot of features, which GPL hasn't. Like pitstops, tyreconserving, etc. >Anotherthing you are talking bullshit is that you don't have respect for RS2 >driver cause they decided to stick to that game? On what opnion do you >respect guys...on the game they drive??? I think Andre meant that, because he doesn't drive MGPRS2, he can't judge about the skill of a RS2 driver. Andre drives GPL, so he _can_ judge about GPL drivers, because he can compare to his own archievements. Of course you're right that the fastest RS2 drivers should have the same skill as the fastest GPL drivers. Remco

Hey Brian, I still think that GPL drivers are the best drivers around, and that RS2 isn't a very realistic sim, but as you said, this would lead into an endless discussion, which I don't want to get into (again). We each have our own opinions, I respect yours, hope you can respect mine, and we'll meet each other someday online in GP3, right? Uhhh... forget that, I read that GP3 won't feature multiplayer :) Bye, Andre On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:35:40 +0100, "Brian V. Balgobind" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>HI Andre, > >sorry that i sounded a bit offensive too...but your message looked like GPL >drivers are the best drivers around. Which i in my opinion don't think they >are. > >In my opinion the fastest driver has driven GP2 and RS2 anyway. To his >driving skills nobody can compete not even Grandis and Huttu. (I'm talking >about Ernesto De Angelis). I think the class of the Titans will come very >soon when GP3 will come out i think. I'm looking forward too that...just >don't hope i need a 1 GHz comp to play it though > >I just think that we have three groups at this moment and all three sticking >to there game. I can mention a whole row about why rs2 can be considered a >sim. But i'm not going to discuss it. I tried this with GPL drivers. But it >was totally useless. > >I think i repsonded to you that the 1.14.9 was in F1 2000..anyway why should >I talk about times in RS2 (WR in rs2 is still 1.17.3) The fact is that >racing community should stick together and when you are in one game not kick >away the others > >ANyway thats how your message sounded...maybe i misinterperted. > >Greetings, > >Brian Balgobind >Team Director European Department GS Big Silver > >PS: Our team has place for all drivers. We started in RS2. We spread our >wings to Nascar 3 and now are exploring GPL and searching for drivers > >End of this disccusion > >"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht >news:[email hidden]... >> Couple of comments below... >> >> On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:22:50 +0100, "Brian V. Balgobind" >> <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >Wel We at GS BIg Silver think you are totally wrong by saying that rs2 is >> >not a simulation. Ok GPL is cool...but i just don't like driving sigars >> >> I don't think MGPRS2 is a simulation, I find the physics too arcade >> like, and I don't think I'm the only one with that opinion around >> here. That's just my opinion. >> If you think it is a simulation, and have fun with it, that's great >> and I respect that. Just don't say I'm 'totally wrong' when I'm just >> saying my opinion. >> >> >Anotherthing you are talking bullshit is that you don't have respect for >RS2 >> >driver cause they decided to stick to that game? On what opnion do you >> >respect guys...on the game they drive??? >> >> Read my former post very carefull, and you will read that I didn't say >> that I don't have respect for MGPRS2 drivers, but I have m-o-r-e >> respect for drivers like Woeger and Huttu who can drive 1:26 laps in >> GPL. >> Simply because I think GPL is a much more realistic sim than ms2, I >> hope you can agree on that one. >> >> Stating that I said that I 'don't have respect for RS2 drivers cause >> they decided to stick to that game' is nonsense, or to you use your >> words, bullshit. Read my friend. >> >> >I can tell you one thing...i tried GPL for a few days...1.30.3 at Monza >> >(Don't say the track is easy cause you are contradicting yourself then) I >> >know other good rs2 drivers that did GPL for a couple of days...they Did >> >1.28 at Monza. SO we didn't have the practice you guys got in GPL but >stop >> >saying you don't respect guys like us. >> >> Driving 1:30 within a couple of days is good, absolutely. A lot of >> drivers around here seem to have troubles driving 1:30's after >> spending much more time on GPL. I didn't say MGPRS2 were bad drivers, >> or did I? With some knowledge about racing, driving 1:28's isn't that >> hard. If you would have written that some of your drivers drove 1:26 >> or 1:27 laps after 'a couple of days', now then I would have bowed for >> you... >> 1:28 seems to be some sort of magical barrier for GPL... I entered >> 1:28 quite soon, but it took me a lot of effort to drive consistent >> 1:27 laps. >> >> >I bet when the GPL drivers meet the RS 2 drivers in a game like F1 >2000...i >> >really think this game rocks when it comes to physics.... you would be >> >surprised. >> >> I hereby accept the challenge :) >> Huttu, Woeger, Grandis, Lake, start practicing! Clash of the Titans! >> Well, actually, I don't think these drivers will leave GPL for F1 >> 2000... >> >> >The 1.14.9 is not driven in rs2 but in this game...F1 2000. So try to >beat >> >that if you don't respect RS2 drivers and don't have them high. >> >> You didn't mention in your former post that those times were done in >> F1 2000 (quote: Check the GS Big Silver guys at www.gssilver.cjb.net >> We have the fastest Drivers of MGPRS2 in the team. Marcel Vis already >> did 1.14.9 on Brazil with all helps off.) >> 1.14.9 is an excellent time, all respect for that. Just not as much >> respect as Huttu's and Woeger's GPL records, since GPL is quite a >> different league than MGPRS2 and F1 2000... >> (ducking for cover here) >> >> >Anyway i'm waiting for the moment that GP2, GPL and RS2 drivers join >forces >> >in one game. I don't think the GPL drivers will be the only drivers on >top >> >of the list. To respect somebody is to let him stick to the game he likes >> >> That's true. Didn't say otherwise, did I? >> >> >Brian Balgobind >> > >> >"I respect evreybody no matter what game they like...untill they talk >> >bullshit like this" >> >> I respect everybody no matter what game they like... unless they can't >> read and start giving crappy answers. >> >> No offense meant, I hope you'll get my point. >> >> Andre >> >> >> > >> > >> >"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht >> >news:[email hidden]... >> >> I hardly played MGPRS2 (hated it, sorry) so I wouldn't know if 1.14.9 >> >> on Brazil with MGPRS2 is just as unbelievable as the times Woeger and >> >> Huttu get in GPL. >> >> >> >> I do think that GPL is the hardest sim ever, because it's the most >> >> realistic sim ever (except for RC2000 David, I know), and in that case >> >> I have the uttermost respect for anyone who can drive world-record >> >> times in GPL, I have more respect for them than the guys who can drive >> >> fast laps in more arcade-like games like MGPRS2. >> >> >> >> Whew, that sounded kind of offensive, don't mean it that way, I hope >> >> you understand what I mean :) >> >> >> >> Andre >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:10:22 +0100, "Brian V. Balgobind" >> >> <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >Why reverring To Woeger and Huttu??? >> >> > >> >> >Check the GS Big Silver guys at www.gssilver.cjb.net We have the >fastest >> >> >Drivers of MGPRS2 in the team. Marcel Vis already did 1.14.9 on Brazil >> >with >> >> >all helps off. I myself am at 1.16.4 and think i can get into the 15's >> >too. >> >> > >> >> >I think GPL are not the only ones that can crack those times for sure >:-) >> >> > >> >> >Brian Balgobind >> >> >Team Director European Department of GS Big Silver >> >> >> > >> > >> >

Wrong, there will be the use of IPX protocol in GP3, so in theory, you will be able to use it online with 3rd party program like Kali !!!!!!!!!!!! See you around Andre and Brian Bye Coco Andre Warringa wrote:

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> Hey Brian, > > I still think that GPL drivers are the best drivers around, and that > RS2 isn't a very realistic sim, but as you said, this would lead into > an endless discussion, which I don't want to get into (again). > We each have our own opinions, I respect yours, hope you can respect > mine, and we'll meet each other someday online in GP3, right? > > Uhhh... forget that, I read that GP3 won't feature multiplayer :) > > Bye, > Andre > > On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:35:40 +0100, "Brian V. Balgobind" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >HI Andre, > > > >sorry that i sounded a bit offensive too...but your message looked like GPL > >drivers are the best drivers around. Which i in my opinion don't think they > >are. > > > >In my opinion the fastest driver has driven GP2 and RS2 anyway. To his > >driving skills nobody can compete not even Grandis and Huttu. (I'm talking > >about Ernesto De Angelis). I think the class of the Titans will come very > >soon when GP3 will come out i think. I'm looking forward too that...just > >don't hope i need a 1 GHz comp to play it though > > > >I just think that we have three groups at this moment and all three sticking > >to there game. I can mention a whole row about why rs2 can be considered a > >sim. But i'm not going to discuss it. I tried this with GPL drivers. But it > >was totally useless. > > > >I think i repsonded to you that the 1.14.9 was in F1 2000..anyway why should > >I talk about times in RS2 (WR in rs2 is still 1.17.3) The fact is that > >racing community should stick together and when you are in one game not kick > >away the others > > > >ANyway thats how your message sounded...maybe i misinterperted. > > > >Greetings, > > > >Brian Balgobind > >Team Director European Department GS Big Silver > > > >PS: Our team has place for all drivers. We started in RS2. We spread our > >wings to Nascar 3 and now are exploring GPL and searching for drivers > > > >End of this disccusion > > > >"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > >news:[email hidden]... > >> Couple of comments below... > >> > >> On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:22:50 +0100, "Brian V. Balgobind" > >> <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> > >> >Wel We at GS BIg Silver think you are totally wrong by saying that rs2 is > >> >not a simulation. Ok GPL is cool...but i just don't like driving sigars > >> > >> I don't think MGPRS2 is a simulation, I find the physics too arcade > >> like, and I don't think I'm the only one with that opinion around > >> here. That's just my opinion. > >> If you think it is a simulation, and have fun with it, that's great > >> and I respect that. Just don't say I'm 'totally wrong' when I'm just > >> saying my opinion. > >> > >> >Anotherthing you are talking bullshit is that you don't have respect for > >RS2 > >> >driver cause they decided to stick to that game? On what opnion do you > >> >respect guys...on the game they drive??? > >> > >> Read my former post very carefull, and you will read that I didn't say > >> that I don't have respect for MGPRS2 drivers, but I have m-o-r-e > >> respect for drivers like Woeger and Huttu who can drive 1:26 laps in > >> GPL. > >> Simply because I think GPL is a much more realistic sim than ms2, I > >> hope you can agree on that one. > >> > >> Stating that I said that I 'don't have respect for RS2 drivers cause > >> they decided to stick to that game' is nonsense, or to you use your > >> words, bullshit. Read my friend. > >> > >> >I can tell you one thing...i tried GPL for a few days...1.30.3 at Monza > >> >(Don't say the track is easy cause you are contradicting yourself then) I > >> >know other good rs2 drivers that did GPL for a couple of days...they Did > >> >1.28 at Monza. SO we didn't have the practice you guys got in GPL but > >stop > >> >saying you don't respect guys like us. > >> > >> Driving 1:30 within a couple of days is good, absolutely. A lot of > >> drivers around here seem to have troubles driving 1:30's after > >> spending much more time on GPL. I didn't say MGPRS2 were bad drivers, > >> or did I? With some knowledge about racing, driving 1:28's isn't that > >> hard. If you would have written that some of your drivers drove 1:26 > >> or 1:27 laps after 'a couple of days', now then I would have bowed for > >> you... > >> 1:28 seems to be some sort of magical barrier for GPL... I entered > >> 1:28 quite soon, but it took me a lot of effort to drive consistent > >> 1:27 laps. > >> > >> >I bet when the GPL drivers meet the RS 2 drivers in a game like F1 > >2000...i > >> >really think this game rocks when it comes to physics.... you would be > >> >surprised. > >> > >> I hereby accept the challenge :) > >> Huttu, Woeger, Grandis, Lake, start practicing! Clash of the Titans! > >> Well, actually, I don't think these drivers will leave GPL for F1 > >> 2000... > >> > >> >The 1.14.9 is not driven in rs2 but in this game...F1 2000. So try to > >beat > >> >that if you don't respect RS2 drivers and don't have them high. > >> > >> You didn't mention in your former post that those times were done in > >> F1 2000 (quote: Check the GS Big Silver guys at www.gssilver.cjb.net > >> We have the fastest Drivers of MGPRS2 in the team. Marcel Vis already > >> did 1.14.9 on Brazil with all helps off.) > >> 1.14.9 is an excellent time, all respect for that. Just not as much > >> respect as Huttu's and Woeger's GPL records, since GPL is quite a > >> different league than MGPRS2 and F1 2000... > >> (ducking for cover here) > >> > >> >Anyway i'm waiting for the moment that GP2, GPL and RS2 drivers join > >forces > >> >in one game. I don't think the GPL drivers will be the only drivers on > >top > >> >of the list. To respect somebody is to let him stick to the game he likes > >> > >> That's true. Didn't say otherwise, did I? > >> > >> >Brian Balgobind > >> > > >> >"I respect evreybody no matter what game they like...untill they talk > >> >bullshit like this" > >> > >> I respect everybody no matter what game they like... unless they can't > >> read and start giving crappy answers. > >> > >> No offense meant, I hope you'll get my point. > >> > >> Andre > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >> >"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > >> >news:[email hidden]... > >> >> I hardly played MGPRS2 (hated it, sorry) so I wouldn't know if 1.14.9 > >> >> on Brazil with MGPRS2 is just as unbelievable as the times Woeger and > >> >> Huttu get in GPL. > >> >> > >> >> I do think that GPL is the hardest sim ever, because it's the most > >> >> realistic sim ever (except for RC2000 David, I know), and in that case > >> >> I have the uttermost respect for anyone who can drive world-record > >> >> times in GPL, I have more respect for them than the guys who can drive > >> >> fast laps in more arcade-like games like MGPRS2. > >> >> > >> >> Whew, that sounded kind of offensive, don't mean it that way, I hope > >> >> you understand what I mean :) > >> >> > >> >> Andre > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:10:22 +0100, "Brian V. Balgobind" > >> >> <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >Why reverring To Woeger and Huttu??? > >> >> > > >> >> >Check the GS Big Silver guys at www.gssilver.cjb.net We have the > >fastest > >> >> >Drivers of MGPRS2 in the team. Marcel Vis already did 1.14.9 on Brazil > >> >with > >> >> >all helps off. I myself am at 1.16.4 and think i can get into the 15's > >> >too. > >> >> > > >> >> >I think GPL are not the only ones that can crack those times for sure > >:-) > >> >> > > >> >> >Brian Balgobind > >> >> >Team Director European Department of GS Big Silver > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > >

That's not what I meant Remco. I was quite a fanatic F1GP driver, and I found MGPRS nothing more than an update for F1GP, untill GPL hit the shelves. That opened my eyes and made me realize I was only playing arcade games so far. I thought I was a good driver, until I drove a Lotus 49 for the first time in my life. I had to work much, much harder to achieve consistent laptimes. So, in my opinion, and no one has to agree, driving fast laps in GPL is harder than doing so in MGPRS2. And driving consistent in GPL is even more harder than in MGPRS2. Andre. On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:49:27 GMT, [email hidden] (Remco Moedt) wrote:

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> >I think Andre meant that, because he doesn't drive MGPRS2, he can't >judge about the skill of a RS2 driver. Andre drives GPL, so he _can_ >judge about GPL drivers, because he can compare to his own >archievements. Of course you're right that the fastest RS2 drivers >should have the same skill as the fastest GPL drivers. > >Remco >

Sorry, but you thought you where a good driver??? I never saw you're name in the hotlap competition of rs2? Try do some good laps in RS2 first before you judge ok. Arcadish...yea right. I drove a whole season RS2 online. I can tell you one thing with all aids off it's pretty damn hard to keep the car on the track if you don't have the right setup...nor the skills to drive it. You can have your opinion..I respect that. But here you are telling again that drivers who drive RS2 can take it easy cause the real BIG sim is GPL. In my opinion you are a overbiased and sensless dude, Brian PS...i'm lucky there are other great GPL drivers that have another opinion than you. Cause your situation is hopeless. "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:[email hidden]...

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> That's not what I meant Remco. I was quite a fanatic F1GP driver, and > I found MGPRS nothing more than an update for F1GP, untill GPL hit the > shelves. That opened my eyes and made me realize I was only playing > arcade games so far. > I thought I was a good driver, until I drove a Lotus 49 for the first > time in my life. I had to work much, much harder to achieve consistent > laptimes. > So, in my opinion, and no one has to agree, driving fast laps in GPL > is harder than doing so in MGPRS2. And driving consistent in GPL is > even more harder than in MGPRS2. > > Andre. > > On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:49:27 GMT, [email hidden] (Remco Moedt) > wrote: > > > >I think Andre meant that, because he doesn't drive MGPRS2, he can't > >judge about the skill of a RS2 driver. Andre drives GPL, so he _can_ > >judge about GPL drivers, because he can compare to his own > >archievements. Of course you're right that the fastest RS2 drivers > >should have the same skill as the fastest GPL drivers. > > > >Remco > > >

O yes one more thing IN my dictionary "harder" doesn't mean the same thing as "better" or does it? En of this discussion "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:[email hidden]...

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> That's not what I meant Remco. I was quite a fanatic F1GP driver, and > I found MGPRS nothing more than an update for F1GP, untill GPL hit the > shelves. That opened my eyes and made me realize I was only playing > arcade games so far. > I thought I was a good driver, until I drove a Lotus 49 for the first > time in my life. I had to work much, much harder to achieve consistent > laptimes. > So, in my opinion, and no one has to agree, driving fast laps in GPL > is harder than doing so in MGPRS2. And driving consistent in GPL is > even more harder than in MGPRS2. > > Andre. > > On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:49:27 GMT, [email hidden] (Remco Moedt) > wrote: > > > >I think Andre meant that, because he doesn't drive MGPRS2, he can't > >judge about the skill of a RS2 driver. Andre drives GPL, so he _can_ > >judge about GPL drivers, because he can compare to his own > >archievements. Of course you're right that the fastest RS2 drivers > >should have the same skill as the fastest GPL drivers. > > > >Remco > > >

On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:10:52 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote:

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>Couple of comments below... > >On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:22:50 +0100, "Brian V. Balgobind" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>I bet when the GPL drivers meet the RS 2 drivers in a game like F1 2000...i >>really think this game rocks when it comes to physics.... you would be >>surprised. > >I hereby accept the challenge :) >Huttu, Woeger, Grandis, Lake, start practicing! Clash of the Titans! >Well, actually, I don't think these drivers will leave GPL for F1 >2000...

I might buy F1 2000 after it has been released and I've seen some more reviews and comments about it. But even if I buy it, my main interest will still be GPL. I'm sure I will buy GP3 but because it doesn't have a decent multiplayer option I'll mostly stick to GPL. Now WSC... that's a different story. :) Few comments about F1RS and RS2. I used to play F1RS pretty much, but after the GPL demo came out, I totally forgot about F1RS. I tried RS2 later too, but it felt pretty much the same as F1RS and didn't keep me interested for long. -- Greger [email hidden]

Have to disagree slightly... although the cars in GPL are harder to drive in general they don't spin you out for no apparent reason what so ever. Jan. =--- Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> That's not what I meant Remco. I was quite a fanatic F1GP driver, and > I found MGPRS nothing more than an update for F1GP, untill GPL hit the > shelves. That opened my eyes and made me realize I was only playing > arcade games so far. > I thought I was a good driver, until I drove a Lotus 49 for the first > time in my life. I had to work much, much harder to achieve consistent > laptimes. > So, in my opinion, and no one has to agree, driving fast laps in GPL > is harder than doing so in MGPRS2. And driving consistent in GPL is > even more harder than in MGPRS2. > > Andre. > > <Snip>

"Brian V. Balgobind" <[email hidden]> wrote > I bet when the GPL drivers meet the RS 2 drivers in a game like F12000...i > really think this game rocks when it comes to physics.... you would be > surprised. Well that's completely normal. I do expect RS2 to be faster in average than GPL drivers, but not because they are better drivers. While fast drivers have a tendency to be fast at any type of racing, some people will find one type of racing the best for their natural abilities. Some people will rule short oval racing, but put them in a different situation (per example, Formula Ones), and there is a good chance they won't perform in a fantastic way like they do in short oval racing. This goes for every form of racing. Karting, Boat driving, Bikes, Stock-cars, Touring cars, Open-wheelers, etc.. And for every type of tracks (ovals, road course, Rally stages, hill climb, dirt tracks, ice rinks, etc...). The way you fastlap GPL cars is completely different than how you fastlap MGPRS2. Anybody who is fast disserves to be fast in any type of game, whatever it's an arcade game or an ultra-realistic one. Unless they cheat, the fastest guys are true talent. Sure some games allow for a bigger % of the market to be close to those fast times, but the ones at the top are clearly the best. Be sure that hotlapping in MGPRS2 is difficult for many reasons. It might be not as realistic as some others (we all know it's problems but also it's qualities), but it's really hard to hotlap at fast as them with all aids off, like I said however realistic the game might be. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote

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> Andre, you might want to look at it a little differently. > We can both agree that GPL is the most realistic racing > sim ever put on a PC. If, after a year, you are able to win > a race, then your skills are at the level of a true F1 driver > of the period, except you race on your PC and they raced > in their cars. If you are that skilled, then you should expect > to win occasionally on any other racing sim that is released > as long as that sim doesn't exceed the realism of GPL. > > In other words, you are just too skilled for most current PC sims. > I'm serious about this.

Great point rrevved. Hmmm I'll archive this message so I take a look at if after GP3 or WSC is released. It makes sense to some extent. I bet this is one primary reason for the lack of support by a good majority of r.a.s. citizens over the new crop of titles we had since GPL was released. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

hmmm interesting point indeed.... I'd hate to agree with it (oh, the ego!) but I'm afraid I just might.... scooter ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RR_B4.1208$[email hidden]...

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> "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Andre, you might want to look at it a little differently. > > We can both agree that GPL is the most realistic racing > > sim ever put on a PC. If, after a year, you are able to win > > a race, then your skills are at the level of a true F1 driver > > of the period, except you race on your PC and they raced > > in their cars. If you are that skilled, then you should expect > > to win occasionally on any other racing sim that is released > > as long as that sim doesn't exceed the realism of GPL. > > > > In other words, you are just too skilled for most current PC sims. > > I'm serious about this. > > > Great point rrevved. Hmmm I'll archive this message so I take a look at

if > after GP3 or WSC is released. It makes sense to some extent. I bet thisis

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> one primary reason for the lack of support by a good majority of r.a.s. > citizens over the new crop of titles we had since GPL was released. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't

realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > >

Ofcourse I will stick to GPL, no sim can beat that one, and I don't think no sim will in a long time, but F1 2000 and Porsche 2000 are some very refreshing sims. Completely different than GPL, but each game has it's own charm. And F1 2000 is online just as much fun as GPL, allthough a victory with GPL is much more rewarding. I was just very curious to see what lap times you can get with these sims, (I never thought I would call a NFS game a sim), just to see if you're just as good in other sims as you are in GPL. Yesterday someone posted that someone did a 1:14 lap at Brazil with F1 2000. Yesterday I drove a 1:18.1 lap, and I must say that 1.14 is quite something! Would love to see a replay from that lap... By the way, is it me, or is slipstreaming not modelled in F1 2000? Andre On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:11:45 GMT, [email hidden] (Greger Huttu) wrote:

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>On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:10:52 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre >Warringa) wrote: >>I hereby accept the challenge :) >>Huttu, Woeger, Grandis, Lake, start practicing! Clash of the Titans! >>Well, actually, I don't think these drivers will leave GPL for F1 >>2000... > >I might buy F1 2000 after it has been released and I've seen some more >reviews and comments about it. But even if I buy it, my main interest >will still be GPL. I'm sure I will buy GP3 but because it doesn't have >a decent multiplayer option I'll mostly stick to GPL. Now WSC... >that's a different story. :) > >Few comments about F1RS and RS2. I used to play F1RS pretty much, but >after the GPL demo came out, I totally forgot about F1RS. I tried RS2 >later too, but it felt pretty much the same as F1RS and didn't keep me >interested for long. > >-- >Greger >[email hidden]

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> > That's not what I meant Remco. I was quite a fanatic F1GP driver, and > I found MGPRS nothing more than an update for F1GP, untill GPL hit the > shelves. That opened my eyes and made me realize I was only playing > arcade games so far. > I thought I was a good driver, until I drove a Lotus 49 for the first > time in my life. I had to work much, much harder to achieve consistent > laptimes. > So, in my opinion, and no one has to agree, driving fast laps in GPL > is harder than doing so in MGPRS2. And driving consistent in GPL is > even more harder than in MGPRS2.

There's the mistake in your analysis: GPL cars are harder to drive fast, because the real cars are much harder to drive. Just because a modern F1 car is more stable at the limit, it'd be nonsense to say that a sim reflecting that stability is arcade. No, it's just quite good (not excellent) at simulating a modern F1 car. l8er ronny -- Ronald Stoehr Alcatel Telecom voice +49 711 821 46949 Lorenzstrasse 10 fax +49 711 821 42303 D-70435 Stuttgart <mailto:[email hidden]> Germany "You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!" "Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer" - Dilbert.

Ronald Stoehr <[email hidden]> wrote: : There's the mistake in your analysis: GPL cars are harder to drive : fast, because the real cars are much harder to drive. Just because a : modern F1 car is more stable at the limit, it'd be nonsense to say that : a sim reflecting that stability is arcade. I disagree totally - what makes you think a modern F1 car is more stable at the limit. Footage of 60s racing shows drivers repeatedly getting it very sideways and bringing it back from the brink. 90s cars simply can't do that. From this observation I would say that a modern F1 car is much less stable at the limit. Remember also that in a modern F1 car, as soon as you get it sideways and lose speed you lose downforce too. Track tests on the Eagle and Lotus recently described them both as actually surprisingly comfortable to drive. Of course this doesn't mean that F1-2000 is wrong to model that particular level of stability in a modern F1 car. If anything I think GPL waaay underestimates stability. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

No, I didn't say that GPL cars are harder to drive because they are much harder to drive in reality. Never sat in a real Lotus 49, never sat in a current F1 car, so I can't compare that. I just mean that as a whole the cars in MGPRS2 are easier too drive. Maybe because these cars are in reality easier to drive, maybe not. It just doesn't take as much practice to drive fast laps in MGPRS2 than it does in GPL. Only a handfull of people can drive really fast laps in GPL. Even after a year of practice, after learning all the limits of my Lotus, I'm still more than a second slower than the world record lap. Now that's impressive for me. And I don't think MGPRS2 is arcade because it's easier too drive, I think it's arcade because the physics don't feel right, certainly not compared to GPL. Andre On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:15:13 +0100, Ronald Stoehr <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Andre Warringa wrote: >> >> That's not what I meant Remco. I was quite a fanatic F1GP driver, and >> I found MGPRS nothing more than an update for F1GP, untill GPL hit the >> shelves. That opened my eyes and made me realize I was only playing >> arcade games so far. >> I thought I was a good driver, until I drove a Lotus 49 for the first >> time in my life. I had to work much, much harder to achieve consistent >> laptimes. >> So, in my opinion, and no one has to agree, driving fast laps in GPL >> is harder than doing so in MGPRS2. And driving consistent in GPL is >> even more harder than in MGPRS2. > >There's the mistake in your analysis: GPL cars are harder to drive >fast, because the real cars are much harder to drive. Just because a >modern F1 car is more stable at the limit, it'd be nonsense to say that >a sim reflecting that stability is arcade. No, it's just quite good (not >excellent) at simulating a modern F1 car. > >l8er >ronny > >-- >Ronald Stoehr Alcatel Telecom >voice +49 711 821 46949 Lorenzstrasse 10 >fax +49 711 821 42303 D-70435 Stuttgart ><mailto:[email hidden]> Germany > >"You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!" >"Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer" - Dilbert.

Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote: >That's not what I meant Remco. Ok... >I was quite a fanatic F1GP driver, and >I found MGPRS nothing more than an update for F1GP, untill GPL hit the >shelves. That opened my eyes and made me realize I was only playing >arcade games so far. I agree that F1RS and MGPRS2 are less "realistic" then GPL... >I thought I was a good driver, until I drove a Lotus 49 for the first >time in my life. I had to work much, much harder to achieve consistent >laptimes. >So, in my opinion, and no one has to agree, driving fast laps in GPL >is harder than doing so in MGPRS2. And driving consistent in GPL is >even more harder than in MGPRS2. Agreed. But the point wasn't which "game" is harder to drive, the point was which "player" was better. In my opinion, to be the best in F1RS/MGPRS2/GPL, you need to be equaly skilled. You're racing humans, and they tend to get the most out of the car.... To be the best, in both cases, you need talent, stamina, and a lot of dedication. Remco.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:50:14 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote:

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>Ofcourse I will stick to GPL, no sim can beat that one, and I don't >think no sim will in a long time, but F1 2000 and Porsche 2000 are >some very refreshing sims. Completely different than GPL, but each >game has it's own charm. And F1 2000 is online just as much fun as >GPL, allthough a victory with GPL is much more rewarding. > >I was just very curious to see what lap times you can get with these >sims, (I never thought I would call a NFS game a sim), just to see if >you're just as good in other sims as you are in GPL.

I see what you mean. The newest NFS certainly looks to be great, judging from the impressions hear in r.a.s. I have waited long for a *decent* modern F1 sim so I think I have to give F1 2000 a try soon. But this NFS5 certainly seems worth trying. :) What about the online code in F1 2000? How does it work with, say, 6 players? I think 8 is the maximum, right? -- Greger [email hidden]

Agreed ofcourse. By the way Brian, thanks for sending me the replay, very impressive indeed! :) I couldn't reply to your email personally, Office 2000 crashed again... thanks Bill :) Andre On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:10:23 GMT, [email hidden] (Remco Moedt) wrote:

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>But the point wasn't which "game" is harder to drive, the point was >which "player" was better. In my opinion, to be the best in >F1RS/MGPRS2/GPL, you need to be equaly skilled. You're racing humans, >and they tend to get the most out of the car.... > >To be the best, in both cases, you need talent, stamina, and a lot of >dedication. > >Remco. >

I don;t know Greger, I just drove online with a friend of mine, and that went perfect. Since the AI sucks, it better be good online... Andre On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 14:03:02 GMT, [email hidden] (Greger Huttu) wrote:

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>I see what you mean. The newest NFS certainly looks to be great, >judging from the impressions hear in r.a.s. I have waited long for a >*decent* modern F1 sim so I think I have to give F1 2000 a try soon. >But this NFS5 certainly seems worth trying. :) > >What about the online code in F1 2000? How does it work with, say, 6 >players? I think 8 is the maximum, right? > >-- >Greger >[email hidden]