Where is Axelrod's Rebutal on F1 2000?

With all the hammering that F1 2000 has been taking here on RAS, I'm curious why there hasn't been a defender of the flag around? Are all the naysayers correct? Jeff

I truly cannot understand why some people are so vocal in their opposition to this game. Maybe we have been totally spoiled, but the ONLY sim I see better than this is GPL. It betters all other racing sims hands down.. But just because it is not as good as GPL, we act as though it is a disaster. Sure, it's not perfect but <in bold print> neither is GPL! It's about time we all faced up to the fact that GPL may well be the pinnacle of sim-racing for a long time to come and that we may never see a better or more realistic sim. Every time a movie is released we don't compare it to or expect it to better Citizen Kane do we!? I regularly try the demos of the more arcade type racing games and this gives you a real appreciation for the sims that most of us play day in day out. The fact of the matter is that F1 2000 is an excellent simulation. It is also a very fun game. No, it is not the best game out there but I think it is absolutely a winner. I've seen an lot of people here say they aren't going to buy it. Well that's all fine, but how on earth do you expect game companies to keep releasing racing sims when even the most hard-core of sim racers will not buy it? Maybe we all need to get off our high-horse for a while, step back and look at exactly what ISI and EA are giving us. Instead of a flood of emails to EA complaining about the game, perhaps we should all tell them how great it is and how many more people would buy it if they released a patch that fixed x, y and z.... Just a thought... Cheers, ...Colin Jeffrey Haas <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > With all the hammering that F1 2000 has been taking here on RAS, I'm > curious why there hasn't been a defender of the flag around? Are all > the naysayers correct? > > Jeff

Well said, Colin Kinda makes you wonder if any of the guys here are married or have partners I mean to apply the GPL logic, If she Is'nt the best looking, smartest, best cook, best at ironing and best in the sack well, she's going right back to the shop : ) Regards Mike Ps My wife is all of the above : ) On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:51:15 -0500, "Colin" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I truly cannot understand why some people are so vocal in their opposition >to this game. >Maybe we have been totally spoiled, but the ONLY sim I see better than this >is GPL. >It betters all other racing sims hands down.. >But just because it is not as good as GPL, we act as though it is a >disaster. >Sure, it's not perfect but <in bold print> neither is GPL! >It's about time we all faced up to the fact that GPL may well be the >pinnacle of sim-racing for a long time to come and that we may never see a >better or more realistic sim. Every time a movie is released we don't >compare it to or expect it to better Citizen Kane do we!? > >I regularly try the demos of the more arcade type racing games and this >gives you a real appreciation for the sims that most of us play day in day >out. The fact of the matter is that F1 2000 is an excellent simulation. It >is also a very fun game. No, it is not the best game out there but I think >it is absolutely a winner. > >I've seen an lot of people here say they aren't going to buy it. Well >that's all fine, but how on earth do you expect game companies to keep >releasing racing sims when even the most hard-core of sim racers will not >buy it? Maybe we all need to get off our high-horse for a while, step back >and look at exactly what ISI and EA are giving us. Instead of a flood of >emails to EA complaining about the game, perhaps we should all tell them how >great it is and how many more people would buy it if they released a patch >that fixed x, y and z.... Just a thought... > >Cheers, >...Colin > > >Jeffrey Haas <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> With all the hammering that F1 2000 has been taking here on RAS, I'm >> curious why there hasn't been a defender of the flag around? Are all >> the naysayers correct? >> >> Jeff >

You clearly didn't read all the posts about F1 2000... It has both good and bad points, according to the recent posts I guess a major of the people here don't like it, but I'm one of those crazy horses who likes it. Very much. Andre On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:27:38 -0500, Jeffrey Haas <[email hidden]> wrote: >With all the hammering that F1 2000 has been taking here on RAS, I'm >curious why there hasn't been a defender of the flag around? Are all >the naysayers correct? > >Jeff

"Colin" <[email hidden]> wrote > Maybe we have been totally spoiled, but the ONLY sim I see better thanthis > is GPL. I personally enjoyed more softwares like Viper Racing, SBK2k/GP500 and Rally Championship 2000 to EA's attempt of a Formula 1 simulator. It has it's good moment, but a little too much disadvantages to please myself. I can see the attraction for many to F1 2000. But I personally never saw this newsgroup of a "the sim I like is better than the sim you like". The only time some people stop being informative is to either make a troll comment or a joke. Obviously the majority of the messages by all compare in the most neutral possible way the differences so that people can 1) discuss and 2) help other people who are willing to listen and read those messages. But since GPL is agreed by the majority as the reference in racing simulators, titles that categorise themselves as "racing simulators" will be compared in terms of gameplay, game engine, sound, graphics, AI, etc.. to GPL. It is necessary for many to create some sort of hierarchy of software. I bet we all mentally have one. I said my point enough about F1 2k, but I'll continue to voice my opinion to create discussion. There is nothing wrong with that, personally. The bad track modelling clearly killed any love for this game, and it's a darn shame by ISI. I could live with simple sounds, or simple AI as I like to hotlap alone, and for the game engine I can enjoy titles that have limited physics calculation (sorry, I should say more "normal" physics calculation as it's clearly in the average). But not a combination of bad tracks/normal physics, especially after the hype it suffered from press release and newsgroup messages. Good arguments by all sides, good discussions. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:47:52 -0500, Arthur Axelrad <[email hidden]> wrote: Arthur, Sorry for the name misspelling. I plan on picking this sim up and looking forward to the future. Jeff

Well I've been busy getting DSL up and running.... I just got back on! (DSL ROCKS). I stand behind F1 2000, it is a very good racing simulation. Yes it does have some problems but overall one of the 4 best racing sims out their now, the others being SBK2000, Rally Championship and of course your loved GPL. ISI fix a lot of the issues with SCGT and I'm sure they will with F1 2000. Plus a big advantage was all the wonderful add-ons for SCGT, expect the same for F1 2000. Remember when GP2 came out, it took a monster of a system to run it. Its the same with F1 2000. Nothing we can do at this point, but if your running a PIII 450 and expect to run full detail at 1024x768 with a full field forget about it! Your only 550Mhz off the leading technology. I consider most people on here hard core sim racers (gamers) and if they want to experiance smooth frame rates they need to up their systems. If GP3 follows GP2 type system requirements then you better start saving up for the 1.4Ghz CPU! F1 2000 has some other small problems but I won't get into them now. There are only a handful of racing sims that come out each year, most aren't very good, just look at all the other F1 "racing sims" from eidos or pygnosis. But I think ISI/EA put out a very good product with a production of only 12 months! Imagine what they could have done with 3+ years of production. Support ISI/EA and hopefully down the road all those little things will be fix. ISI does listen! Arthur Stealth Racing http://www.gamingsys.com/stealthracing.html Jeffrey Haas wrote: > With all the hammering that F1 2000 has been taking here on RAS, I'm > curious why there hasn't been a defender of the flag around? Are all > the naysayers correct? > > Jeff

It's because most on this forum are pro-GPL bigtime. I mean lets look at most of the post here. If its not a post saying "but it's no GPL" somewhere in the text then it's a rare bird. Sure there are many aspects to GPL that are truly better than any racing sim, but folks here go way beyond common logic on some issues just to plug GPL once again. PS. GP3 looks like it could be a winner, but it's no GPL. :-O

"But I personally never saw this newsgroup of a "the sim I like is better than the sim you like." Can't you read between the lines? :-) You don't have to use much of your imagination to see GPL fans plugging their sim at the expense of discounting the legitimate positive points of others' sims on this forum.

I thought I was the only one who was getting sick of "but it's no GPL" comment. :-) In many ways, I'm glad it's (RC2000 and SBK2000 as well) "no GPL". David G Fisher "GB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> It's because most on this forum are pro-GPL bigtime. I mean lets look > at most of the post here. If its not a post saying "but it's no GPL" > somewhere in the text then it's a rare bird. Sure there are many > aspects to GPL that are truly better than any racing sim, but folks > here go way beyond common logic on some issues just to plug GPL once > again. > > PS. GP3 looks like it could be a winner, but it's no GPL. :-O

I'd agree with some of that--but surely we have to ask: precisely *how* did RAS get this way? GPL hasn't been around forever . . . . So, how and why did this newsgroup (which was very high on F1RS prior to GPL, by the way) become so GPL-centered? Is it just the evil inclinations of a bunch of fanatics? Or, is there something in GPL that has fostered something beyond the usual ( I assume its usual anyway) cyclical trajectory of newsgroup obsessions? --DK PS I mean this to be a serious query; I'll even rephrase it as a new thread. "GB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> It's because most on this forum are pro-GPL bigtime. I mean lets look > at most of the post here. If its not a post saying "but it's no GPL" > somewhere in the text then it's a rare bird. Sure there are many > aspects to GPL that are truly better than any racing sim, but folks > here go way beyond common logic on some issues just to plug GPL once > again. > > PS. GP3 looks like it could be a winner, but it's no GPL. :-O

It started since the release of GPL I guess... it woke people up. Andre On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:04:55 -0600, "David Karr" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I'd agree with some of that--but surely we have to ask: precisely *how* did >RAS get this way? GPL hasn't been around forever . . . . So, how and why >did this newsgroup (which was very high on F1RS prior to GPL, by the way) >become so GPL-centered? > >Is it just the evil inclinations of a bunch of fanatics? Or, is there >something in GPL that has fostered something beyond the usual ( I assume its >usual anyway) cyclical trajectory of newsgroup obsessions? > >--DK > >PS I mean this to be a serious query; I'll even rephrase it as a new >thread. > > > >"GB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> It's because most on this forum are pro-GPL bigtime. I mean lets look >> at most of the post here. If its not a post saying "but it's no GPL" >> somewhere in the text then it's a rare bird. Sure there are many >> aspects to GPL that are truly better than any racing sim, but folks >> here go way beyond common logic on some issues just to plug GPL once >> again. >> >> PS. GP3 looks like it could be a winner, but it's no GPL. :-O > >

No problem. Art

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> On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:47:52 -0500, Arthur Axelrad > Arthur, > Sorry for the name misspelling. I plan on picking this > sim up and looking forward to the future. > Jeff

Good post, Rosebud. (8>) Colin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8baq0i$dud$[email hidden]... > I truly cannot understand why some people are so vocal in their opposition > to this game. > Maybe we have been totally spoiled, but the ONLY sim I see better thanthis

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> is GPL. > It betters all other racing sims hands down.. > But just because it is not as good as GPL, we act as though it is a > disaster. > Sure, it's not perfect but <in bold print> neither is GPL! > It's about time we all faced up to the fact that GPL may well be the > pinnacle of sim-racing for a long time to come and that we may never see a > better or more realistic sim. Every time a movie is released we don't > compare it to or expect it to better Citizen Kane do we!? > > I regularly try the demos of the more arcade type racing games and this > gives you a real appreciation for the sims that most of us play day in day > out. The fact of the matter is that F1 2000 is an excellent simulation.

It > is also a very fun game. No, it is not the best game out there but Ithink > it is absolutely a winner. > > I've seen an lot of people here say they aren't going to buy it. Well > that's all fine, but how on earth do you expect game companies to keep > releasing racing sims when even the most hard-core of sim racers will not > buy it? Maybe we all need to get off our high-horse for a while, stepback > and look at exactly what ISI and EA are giving us. Instead of a flood of > emails to EA complaining about the game, perhaps we should all tell themhow

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> great it is and how many more people would buy it if they released a patch > that fixed x, y and z.... Just a thought... > > Cheers, > ...Colin > > > Jeffrey Haas <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > With all the hammering that F1 2000 has been taking here on RAS, I'm > > curious why there hasn't been a defender of the flag around? Are all > > the naysayers correct? > > > > Jeff > >

I agree 100%. David G Fisher "Arthur Axelrad" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well I've been busy getting DSL up and running.... I just got back on! > (DSL ROCKS). I stand behind F1 2000, it is a very good racing > simulation. Yes it does have some problems but overall one of the 4 best > racing sims out their now, the others being SBK2000, Rally Championship > and of course your loved GPL. ISI fix a lot of the issues with SCGT and > I'm sure they will with F1 2000. Plus a big advantage was all the > wonderful add-ons for SCGT, expect the same for F1 2000. Remember when > GP2 came out, it took a monster of a system to run it. Its the same with > F1 2000. Nothing we can do at this point, but if your running a PIII 450 > and expect to run full detail at 1024x768 with a full field forget about > it! Your only 550Mhz off the leading technology. I consider most people > on here hard core sim racers (gamers) and if they want to experiance > smooth frame rates they need to up their systems. If GP3 follows GP2 > type system requirements then you better start saving up for the 1.4Ghz > CPU! F1 2000 has some other small problems but I won't get into them > now. There are only a handful of racing sims that come out each year, > most aren't very good, just look at all the other F1 "racing sims" from > eidos or pygnosis. But I think ISI/EA put out a very good product with a > production of only 12 months! Imagine what they could have done with 3+ > years of production. Support ISI/EA and hopefully down the road all > those little things will be fix. ISI does listen! > > Arthur > Stealth Racing > http://www.gamingsys.com/stealthracing.html > > Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > > With all the hammering that F1 2000 has been taking here on RAS, I'm > > curious why there hasn't been a defender of the flag around? Are all > > the naysayers correct? > > > > Jeff >

No problem. Art Jeffrey Haas wrote:

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> On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:47:52 -0500, Arthur Axelrad > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > Arthur, > > Sorry for the name misspelling. I plan on picking this > sim up and looking forward to the future. > > Jeff

"David Karr" <[email hidden]> wrote > I'd agree with some of that--but surely we have to ask: precisely *how*did > RAS get this way? GPL hasn't been around forever . . . . So, how and why > did this newsgroup (which was very high on F1RS prior to GPL, by the way) > become so GPL-centered? High on F1RS? What? Well let's resume a little. Before the NROS was a reality, most of the stock-car community was here, and in majority. In fact, it was the major problem to a point that we had a RFD about the creation of rec.autos.simulators.nascar by Tony Johns (who after went to work for Papyrus). About 8months before the NROS came reality, they opened up a newsgroup for it on the TEN servers. Most of the people immigrated there, and they now live peacefully in the n3.discussion newsgroup (who gets more messages than r.a.s.). So this newsgroup went from principally a stock-car newsgroup to a open-wheel newsgroup. Around this time, the buzz started on GPL and never died. It is the best, and has stayed for almost two years as the best, since remember the demo was released around this period of time in March two years ago. It completely transformed the population of the NG, which was then mostly open-wheel hardcore simracers who were awaiting any quality title. And then, we had a spiritual message, that came from David Kaemmer. LOL ;) We all knew it was going to be revolutionary. You remember the full Monza lap movie? Or the crash physic flip at Zandy? Or the full cockpit movie at Watkins Glen. And the face of racing simulation changed forever... -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

"GB" <[email hidden]> wrote > You don't have to use much of your imagination to see GPL fans > plugging their sim at the expense of discounting the legitimate > positive points of others' sims on this forum. No, I see more people comparing directly the best to everything other. Quite like you compare anything in life to the best you can have, or in some situation the best for the price. I doubt you buy a car without at least knowing the other type of cars in the same category, and especially the best one in it. If they plug GPL, maybe it's only because it's really superior ? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.