[Hardware] Things *not* to do on the day before pay day...

While reading about multi-screen gaming in sims like iRacing I realised I only had to tweak my Nvidia settings to get dual screen gaming on my games box. Ok, we're talking about a setup where you're looking straight at the bezels, but it requires no extra hardware or messing about, just two monitors connected to the dual outputs. And, er... wow! No, I mean WOW! The piddly little extra bit of FOV you get on a normal widescreen monitor has never done anything for me... you pay over the odds for that extra bit of monitor (or lose vertical resolution). That's why I've stayed with 4:3 monitors so far. But I can honestly say that when I saw LFS, then iRacing running in 8:3 'wide-o-vision' (2560x1024) for the first time it was one of those rare moments when the PC world shifts beneath your feet. As I always suspected, it makes a *huge* difference to the driving experience and immersion, and a bit of quick experimentation with Crysis & HL2 proved the same there... though to a lesser degree (for me anyway). I think I now have to take a three screen setup very seriously, because a single gaming screen now looks so constricted... and that's only after half an hour of playing around! SoftTH would probably be the best answer for me, but I only have one PCI-E slot, and a vanilla PCI 'slave' card won't cut the mustard... even if I had one. A new motherboard would be a pain to sort out. Mmm... this could get very messy and rather expensive. The Matrox solution is complicated by the fact in the short term I'd want to use a combination of mix & match analogue (non-DVI) monitors, which would rule out the superior digital triplehead solution. I think I need to sit back and contemplate this for a while. Or maybe apply my iRacing technique... ignore it for a while in the hope the urge will go away. :-) Andrew McP

Andrew MacPherson wrote:

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> While reading about multi-screen gaming in sims like iRacing I realised I > only had to tweak my Nvidia settings to get dual screen gaming on my > games box. Ok, we're talking about a setup where you're looking straight > at the bezels, but it requires no extra hardware or messing about, just > two monitors connected to the dual outputs. > > And, er... wow! > > No, I mean WOW! > > The piddly little extra bit of FOV you get on a normal widescreen monitor > has never done anything for me... you pay over the odds for that extra > bit of monitor (or lose vertical resolution). That's why I've stayed with > 4:3 monitors so far.

I thought about Matrox, too, while I used a 22" LG Monitor for my racing cockpit. But a couple of months ago I realized how dirt cheap LCD TVs are now, so I picked a 32" Samsung LCD TV. At 1366x768 it's looking great and "size matters". You almost get the impression you're sitting in that cockpit. I'm not sure if Matrox & Co let you easily (and for all games) put different views on the left and right monitor, or is it just the regular front view distributed over the three monitors??? If it's the latter, I could not accept looking at the two bezels but rather have one big screen. Meanwhile I'm once a week looking at prices for 40" LCD TVs (Full HD) but currently way too high to be used only for a racing cockpit... ;) l8er ronny

[email hidden] (Ronald Stoehr) wrote: > a couple of months ago I realized how dirt cheap LCD TVs are I agree it's a tempting idea. A large LCD TV would indeed fill my field of view nicely. Plus no messing about with leads, dongles, software, and the assorted ongoing physical and technical quirks associated with multiple monitors. However your 1366x768 has an aspect ratio of about 1.8, whereas the 2 screen (both 1280x1024) resolution I was playing with today gave me 2.5, with more clarity (especially) in vertical resolution. That's an extra 40% or so peripheral vision & track width which a magnified screen can't match... and that's before you add another screen to bring the aspect ratio up to an amazing 3.75. That's over twice the field of view you have on your screen. > I'm not sure if Matrox & Co let you easily (and for all games) > put different views on the left and right monitor, or is it just the > regular front view distributed over the three monitors??? The game/sim 'sees' the new resolution (in Matrox's case usually (3x1280)x1024) and renders enough to fill it. So there's no stretching or magnifying going on (at native resolutions anyway). You're just getting a much wider window into the gaming world. And our vision responds very well to that, which is why cinema screens are shaped the way they are. > If it's the latter, I could not accept looking at the two bezels > but rather have one big screen. Bezels are always going to be a problem, but Matrox seem to have minimised the disruption. I also have to say that if I can manage several laps of racing (with a big grin on my face!) on a 2 screen setup where I'm staring straight at the bezels, I *know* they won't be a problem with a 3 screen setup where the side screens are supplying immersion and peripheral vision rather than something to focus on all the time. Anyway, I can see this is going to give me the same kind of headache iRacing has. I want the benefits, but there are downsides as well. In my non-gaming life I am increasingly concerned about peak energy, and I think energy prices are going to have to rise dramatically to beat down global demand. So a three screen setup, plus a new vid card to push that resolution fast enough is going to be a power-hungry beast perched on my desk at a time when that makes less sense. As ever, these decisions are never easy. The heart leads the way, but the head has to do the maths! I suppose another solution might be to buy the highest resolution single widescreen I can afford and run it at an in-game resolution which maximises the available screen width (ie with black bars at the top and bottom of the screen). There may be complications with that though... the monitor automatically stretching the image to fill the screen, or the sim/game not offering the right options. I can see I need to do a lot more research before I decide what to do. The only annoying complication is that one of the hardware suppliers I've used in the past has sent me a 10% discount code to be used by the end of August. I must resist the urge to use that... 10% off something I regret later won't be a bargain! :-) Andrew McP PS Way OT, but this guy has an incredibly well presented, and thought-provoking lecture on peak energy (and lots of other things relevant to the times we live in). http://www.chrismartenson.com/peak_oil

[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote: > I must resist the urge to use that... 10% off something I regret > later won't be a bargain! :-) However at the moment I'm very tempted by a 28" Hanns-G 1920x1600 for about 240ukp. Good real estate bang for buck, average monitor, but for gaming only it'd probably be fine. I could try running a simple, no complications, two screen setup with that, and the centre point would be on one side of the 28". Mind you, while my 17" LCD sits happily beside the 19", it'd look a bit small next to the 28". Mmm... the temptations of a cheap solution rather than the *right* solution! Andrew McP

"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote: > >> I must resist the urge to use that... 10% off something I regret >> later won't be a bargain! :-) > > However at the moment I'm very tempted by a 28" Hanns-G 1920x1600 for > about 240ukp. Good real estate bang for buck, average monitor, but for > gaming only it'd probably be fine. I could try running a simple, no > complications, two screen setup with that, and the centre point would be > on one side of the 28". > > Mind you, while my 17" LCD sits happily beside the 19", it'd look a bit > small next to the 28". > > Mmm... the temptations of a cheap solution rather than the *right* > solution! > > Andrew McP

Matrox recently updated their Triplehead2Go Digital to support widescreen resolutions. It can now run 3 1680x1050 screens. I'll have to upgrade to be able to run at this resolution.

Andrew, I'd really like to try this... Do you have a link to a guide how to setup a 2nd monitor? Thanks.

[email hidden] (Tim Wheatley) wrote: > Andrew, I'd really like to try this... Do you have a link to a guide > how to setup a 2nd monitor? Can;t speak for ATI, but on Nvidia cards you delve into the Nvidia control panel and on one of the multiscreen 'pages' there's a list of several options. The bottom one is dual screen, which I normally use, but two or two places up there a spanning option which is almost the same, but different. Your monitors then show up in desktop/right click/properties/etc as one big widescreen instead of two side by side... that's how you can tell it's working. Then DX can see your 'new' monitor setup and will offer the correct resolution in all games. Andrew McP

Actually I've just realised that idea won't work. I think both monitors have to be set to the same resolution for the spanning to work properly, which is a bit of a bugger. There goes another cheapskate solution to the multi-screen problem! I am *totally* converted to the idea now though. I was just running 2 screens again and despite the middle bezel mess I was still about to lap in iRacing at normal speeds. Mind you, normal for me's not much of a challenge. Andrew McP

On Aug 30, 3:30 am, [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:

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> Actually I've just realised that idea won't work. I think both monitors > have to be set to the same resolution for the spanning to work properly, > which is a bit of a bugger. > > There goes another cheapskate solution to the multi-screen problem! I am > *totally* converted to the idea now though. I was just running 2 screens > again and despite the middle bezel mess I was still about to lap in > iRacing at normal speeds. > > Mind you, normal for me's not much of a challenge. > > Andrew McP

That's cool... I just had to buy myself a new monitor and really I'd love to get another when I have the $$. :) I'll try the scan thing... But if I understand right, the middle of the car is the frame of the monitors? Eeek! ;)

[email hidden] (Tim Wheatley) wrote: > But if I understand right, the middle of the car is the frame of the > monitors? Eeek! ;) It's not ideal, admittedly. :-) But as a quick demonstration of what *real* widescreen (rather than the piffly few extra pixels of normal widescreen monitors) has to offer, it's absolutely stunning. Yesterday I loaded up Crysis again to do a bit of testing while trying to work out what vid card (and perhaps a new PSU to power it reliably!) I might need. Once I discovered I could knock back the details and still have it looking good on a 2560x1024 display driven by a relatively lowly (now!) 8800GTS, I ended up playing for far longer than intended. The experience is simply amazing in everything; though for me the effect in racing games/sims is far more impressive. It really has been a week that's changed my view on multi-screen gaming completely. Andrew McP... who, in about 1989, sneered at a mate who spent an arm and a leg on a 17" monitor. Why would anyone need so much screen space?

7900 GS here... my computer might die. ;) I wonder if I can use my TV (that I have hooked up anyway) for a third monitor? Might allow me to not need a new video card right away... Did you try that?

[email hidden] (Tim Wheatley) wrote: > I wonder if I can use my TV (that I have hooked up anyway) for a > third monitor? No idea, and I'm not dragging my 28" CRT across the room to find out. :-) The 7900GS might be a limitation anyway... though I seem to remember it was a pretty fast card until the 8800 series came along, and it's surprising how much wasted potential a lot of video cards have when it comes to sheer pixel-pushing volume. Three screens certainly makes a difference to the video card though. Today my impulse-bought TH2Go arrived and some quick testing with a 17" LCD, 19"CRT and an ancient 17" CRT showed this is quite an experience, even if frame rates are knocked back. Where I really noticed the immersive 'depths' was when hitting curbs or going off, when the shaking of the car really hits you because of the FOV. Racing three wide at Talladega in N2003 is also an experience and a half. I'm not a huge oval fan, but those big tracks always gave me a bit of a thrill, and when you can see the cars beside you once they get close to level, it's quite an experience. So is crashing. When I inevitably screwed up, the huge FOV makes being in a mass Nascar wrecking rather scary! Spinning cars and smoke all over the place on three screens is an awful lot of wreck to take in. Frame rates in N2003 and GTR Evo were certainly fine at 3072x768, even with plenty of other cars in front, though when I tried Lomac (flight sim) things were less impressive. However that was always going to be a tough test... that thing can still stress a single screen. I didn't have time for much else, and my desk's a bit cramped for the CRTs to all line up. But as 'proof of concept' it worked. Now I just have the expensive part to think about... vid card & monitors. The only 'good' news is that there are quite a few decent 19" 1280x1024 monitors with a power consumption of about 40W. At the moment my CRT + 17" (which I've used on the games box for a while for movie editing) pulls about 160W. Three new, matched screens would be cheaper to run, helping make up for the inevitable increase in vid card power... if I ever decide what to 'invest' in. Anyway, I'm thinking out loud now. In an ideal world I'd prefer a single, very widescreen monitor. But as there's no such thing (apart from those silly budget concepts) this looks like the only sensible option. Did I say sensible? Andrew McP

On Sep 2, 3:41 pm, [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:

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> [email hidden] (Tim Wheatley) wrote: > > I wonder if I can use my TV (that I have hooked up anyway) for a > > third monitor? > > No idea, and I'm not dragging my 28" CRT across the room to find out. :-) > The 7900GS might be a limitation anyway... though I seem to remember it > was a pretty fast card until the 8800 series came along, and it's > surprising how much wasted potential a lot of video cards have when it > comes to sheer pixel-pushing volume. > > Three screens certainly makes a difference to the video card though. > Today my impulse-bought TH2Go arrived and some quick testing with a 17" > LCD, 19"CRT and an ancient 17" CRT showed this is quite an experience, > even if frame rates are knocked back. > > Where I really noticed the immersive 'depths' was when hitting curbs or > going off, when the shaking of the car really hits you because of the FOV. > Racing three wide at Talladega in N2003 is also an experience and a half. > I'm not a huge oval fan, but those big tracks always gave me a bit of a > thrill, and when you can see the cars beside you once they get close to > level, it's quite an experience. > > So is crashing. When I inevitably screwed up, the huge FOV makes being in > a mass Nascar wrecking rather scary! Spinning cars and smoke all over the > place on three screens is an awful lot of wreck to take in. > > Frame rates in N2003 and GTR Evo were certainly fine at 3072x768, even > with plenty of other cars in front, though when I tried Lomac (flight sim) > things were less impressive. However that was always going to be a tough > test... that thing can still stress a single screen. I didn't have time > for much else, and my desk's a bit cramped for the CRTs to all line up. > But as 'proof of concept' it worked. > > Now I just have the expensive part to think about... vid card & monitors. > The only 'good' news is that there are quite a few decent 19" 1280x1024 > monitors with a power consumption of about 40W. At the moment my CRT + 17" > (which I've used on the games box for a while for movie editing) pulls > about 160W. Three new, matched screens would be cheaper to run, helping > make up for the inevitable increase in vid card power... if I ever decide > what to 'invest' in. > > Anyway, I'm thinking out loud now. In an ideal world I'd prefer a single, > very widescreen monitor. But as there's no such thing (apart from those > silly budget concepts) this looks like the only sensible option. > > Did I say sensible? > > Andrew McP

It works! If you have two DVI/VGA outputs and 1 TV output you can use those three to give yourself a cheap triple screen. I never would have given that a shot if not for you, thanks! It's an awesome level of visibility...

some quick testing with a 17" > LCD, 19"CRT and an ancient 17" CRT showed this is quite an experience, Now you got me thinking, I have 2 19" CRT's in the basement and am using a 22" LCD I just got. Newegg has a 8800GT for $120. When the Wife starts hollering I'll just blame you :) Don

some quick testing with a 17" Now you got me thinking, I have 2 19" CRT's in the ba***t and am using a 22" LCD I just got. Newegg has a 8800GT for $120. When the Wife starts hollering I'll just blame you :) Don

[email hidden] (Tim Wheatley) wrote: > It's an awesome level of visibility... It has to be seen to be believed, doesn't it. I suppose I knew all along that it would do, but I deliberately ignored talk and reviews about it. Too expensive. Too much hassle, desk space, and worry about additional things to go wrong (generally in life I prefer a minimalist approach with reduced maintenance and replacement costs). But this time... well, the two screen experiment, which so many people can do easily now, showed me a whole new world of immersion. It is like night and night compared to the average widescreen-lite monitor. Andrew McP PS It occurs to me that the wonderful Dell 1600x1200 I use on this PC for desktop use has various video-in orifices. My 8800GTS has a composite video out, so I may well just have wasted 226ukp on the triplehead! Still, what's new? :-) PPS Great suggestion by the way. I'm sure it'll be useful to others, and I'm surprised and impressed that it works in the first place!

[email hidden] (Don Schwartz Jr) wrote: > Newegg has a 8800GT for $120. I really regret not getting an SLI motherboard now. Two 8800GTs would be a great bang for buck, and a low power solution to my needs now. However when I upgraded I thought SLI was for idiots. It turns out I was right. :-) There are more powerful single slot solutions, but they tend to draw a more power than 2 x 8800GT. And I think the 8800GT is going to be a great card to have in the spares box in years to come. http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341&p=22 Whether one will drive three monitors properly in all games/sims is open to question. I'm certainly impressed by my solo, somewhat slower, GTS's abilities so far. But I haven't tested properly, and I'm sure it'll be pushed to the limits by most things, especially when antialiasing comes into the equation. Having said that, it's useful to bring a bit of common sense to bear. 3072x768 (3x1024x768) = 2,359,296 pixels 1680x1050 = 1,764,000 pixels and used in the article above's benchmarks, like this... http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341&p=13 Divide those numbers by about 1.34 and you've got the kind of frame rates you could expect from the three screen equivalent. Ok, it's at lower res, but never mind the quality, feel the width! :-) And higher (or lower) ultra-widescreen resolutions are still an option. It's definitely an area worth investigating IMO Don. But I cannot be responsible for your back carrying those monitors back up from the basement, or for your wife's mood for the next decade when she loses you behind a bank of monitors. :-) Andrew McP

Andrew... ISTR that some bright spark tried this multi screen malarkey a few years ago... They had three monitors connected, and they were running GPL (a real sim, from the good ole days, none of your namby pamby modern soft southern sh*te, rubber bumpered type sim thingies....) Anyway, they had the main GPL in car view on the centre screen, and they had some small program apparently which allowed the side views to be permanently selected, and had the left side view on the left monitor and the right side view on the right monitor.....! Must have looked awesome.... 8-)

After some more detailed testing of the Matrox Triplehead I'm finding a disadvantage over the 2 screen experiment. With the latter the Nvidia drivers allowed me to run my 19" CRT @ 1280x1024x85Hz, and the 17" LCD at its usual 60Hz. The result was no nasty flickering and a genuinely enjoyable experience. So far though I've found no similar way of altering the Triplehead's settings. As we all probably agree, 60Hz for a CRT is fairly unpleasant, and with a 19" flicker on one side, and a 17" flicker on the other, it's a little uncomfortable after a while. There may be a motion sickness factor as well, I'm not sure. But I didn't have anything like that with the 2 screen experiment, so I'm sure it's the flicker. It's more obvious from the corner of your eye anyway. On the positive side, I've bought two versions of the TrackIR over the years, and both disappointed me. Using glance left & right buttons without trackIR always disorientates me, and the trackIR was no better for me, despite trying to get used to it. However the totally natural ability to glance left & right with the three-screen solution is completely different. I also find that if I *do* use the glance left & right buttons to look even further around, the disorientation is far less than before because I can still see the front of the car properly, towards the edge of the 3-screen setup. Anyway, that's all for now. I just thought I'd make a few notes which might be useful for anyone else watching the thread. Tomorrow I have a day off and hope to explore the flicker issue further. At the moment I'm happy enough with the CRT solution to put off new monitors until I find some bargains... but only if the flicker issue can be solved. Andrew McP PS Another disadvantage of ultra-widescreen. While running EVO this morning I found myself looking out of the left window at the scenery in the distance. This can't be healthy. :-)

[email hidden] (pjgtech) wrote: > Anyway, they had the main GPL in car view on the centre screen, and > they had some small program apparently which allowed the side views > to be permanently selected I think that was a 3-PC solution, wasn't it? Anyway, you're right, it is awesome. :-) As I said before, I encourage everyone to try the 2 screen experiment if they can. It gives you a very good idea of what it's like. Andrew McP

Andrew MacPherson wrote:

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> [email hidden] (pjgtech) wrote: > >> Anyway, they had the main GPL in car view on the centre screen, and >> they had some small program apparently which allowed the side views >> to be permanently selected > I think that was a 3-PC solution, wasn't it?

That was probably me and yes it was :) I am using a TH2go now also with one LCD and 2 CRTs but I don't notice the 60Hz issue. I do find though that running without vsync doesn't feel very smooth even though the fps counter is way over 60. Cheers Tony

[email hidden] (Tony R) wrote: > I am using a TH2go now also with one LCD and 2 CRTs but I don't > notice the 60Hz issue. Interesting. Obviously it's early days for me, and I'll have to do some tinkering. As much as I'd like an excuse to upgrade to matched screens (especially as three decent 1280x1024 or halfway decent 1680x1050 widescreens would cost me much less than the 17" CRT cost when new!) I hate waste, and it would hurt to exile the CRTs to the unwanted heap of junk. So if I get some use out of them, albeit at the expense of a bit more electricity, I won't mind keeping them on the desk. The desk will no doubt have other ideas. Every time I come back from work I expect to find it's collapsed! Andrew McP

On Sep 4, 1:14 am, [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:

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> [email hidden] (Tony R) wrote: > > I am using a TH2go now also with one LCD and 2 CRTs but I don't > > notice the 60Hz issue. > > Interesting. Obviously it's early days for me, and I'll have to do some > tinkering. As much as I'd like an excuse to upgrade to matched screens > (especially as three  decent 1280x1024 or halfway decent 1680x1050 > widescreens would cost me much less than the 17" CRT cost when new!) I > hate waste, and it would hurt to exile the CRTs to the unwanted heap of > junk. So if I get some use out of them, albeit at the expense of a bit > more electricity, I won't mind keeping them on the desk. > > The desk will no doubt have other ideas. Every time I come back from work > I expect to find it's collapsed! > > Andrew McP

Andrew you should try using this util if it'll work for the card/ screen combo you have going. http://www.kegetys.net/SoftTH/ Being able to set each screen independantly is a huge bonus. As you were saying earlier, this isn't like the Track IR - this feels way more natural. I think it's the closest we can probably get to true peripheral vision.

[email hidden] (Tim Wheatley) wrote: > Being able to set each screen independantly is a huge bonus. Yes, the only thing stopping me trying that was the lack of a second vid card slot. I do have a vanilla-PCI Voodoo5, but I'm not sure the ancient 3rd party drivers will co-exist safely with an otherwise stable setup. The refresh rate thing is going to be an issue for me though. I could never stand 60Hz straight in front of me, and it's worse (for me anyway) at the sides. Still, this week has shown me there's no going back, so unless the pound weakens even more than it is (hardware prices are already rising here!) I'm either going to have to upgrade my motherboard to SLI for softTH, or my monitors for the Triplehead. The only good news is that all the racing sims I've tried so far seem to have managed fine with my 8800GTS 320Mb. Games like Crysis require some significant cutting back (and absolutely crawls at high settings), but still manage to run quite respectably. The gain in width is actually a fair swap for the high levels of special effects, so I'm too impressed by what I've gained to think about what I've lost. I imagine a new vid card will still cross my path before too long... if only as an investment. If the UK pound tanks much more (and I think it will) the vid card'll be worth more in 6 months than I pay for it now. Of course if the dollar starts re-tanking to match the DOW, I may merely break even. But those are the risks you take when you speculate on the international hardware markets. :-) Andrew McP

On Sep 4, 7:31 pm, [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:

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> [email hidden] (Tim Wheatley) wrote: > > Being able to set each screen independantly is a huge bonus. > > Yes, the only thing stopping me trying that was the lack of a second vid > card slot. I do have a vanilla-PCI Voodoo5, but I'm not sure the ancient > 3rd party drivers will co-exist safely with an otherwise stable setup. > > The refresh rate thing is going to be an issue for me though. I could > never stand 60Hz straight in front of me, and it's worse (for me anyway) > at the sides. > > Still, this week has shown me there's no going back, so unless the pound > weakens even more than it is (hardware prices are already rising here!) > I'm either going to have to upgrade my motherboard to SLI for softTH, or > my monitors for the Triplehead. The only good news is that all the racing > sims I've tried so far seem to have managed fine with my 8800GTS 320Mb. > Games like Crysis require some significant cutting back (and absolutely > crawls at high settings), but still manage to run quite respectably. The > gain in width is actually a fair swap for the high levels of special > effects, so I'm too impressed by what I've gained to think about what > I've lost. > > I imagine a new vid card will still cross my path before too long... if > only as an investment. If the UK pound tanks much more (and I think it > will) the vid card'll be worth more in 6 months than I pay for it now. Of > course if the dollar starts re-tanking to match the DOW, I may merely > break even. But those are the risks you take when you speculate on the > international hardware markets. :-) > > Andrew McP

If it helps, I am using a Geforce 7900 PCI-E and 5600 AGP and get decent framerates with iR. I was very surprised.

[email hidden] (Tim Wheatley) wrote: > If it helps, I am using a Geforce 7900 PCI-E and 5600 AGP and get > decent framerates with iR. I was very surprised. I think it helps that the second card is doing very little work, just catching data peeled off the main card, then lobbing it onto the third screen. So in theory even the PCI card I hope to source will cope. Whether the already congested PCI bus will cope is a different matter! But something will definitely have to be done. I've no idea how Tony manages with peripheral CRTs at 60Hz. I've had enough after ten minutes or so, and it's taken the gloss off an otherwise exceptional experience. Andrew McP

Andrew MacPherson wrote: > But something will definitely have to be done. I've no idea how Tony > manages with peripheral CRTs at 60Hz. I've had enough after ten minutes > or so, and it's taken the gloss off an otherwise exceptional experience. I don't know if it makes a difference but I run with vsync on locked at 60Hz. Normally I am fussy about refresh and when I used one of those 19" monitors as a main screen (without using vsync) I had it wound up to 120Hz. If ever Windows started without the monitor on it would default to 60Hz and I had to restart it! Might be worth trying with vsync if you aren't already. Conversely I cannot run AA with Softth which is a showstopper for me and hence why I prefer the TH2Go solution. Better a slightly lower res with plenty of AA than a higher res with none IMHO as the lines on the track side get all jaggy. Cheers Tony

[email hidden] (Tony R) wrote: > Might be worth trying with vsync if you aren't already. I'll certainly investigate further. You sound as fussy as me when it comes to screen flicker, so I may be missing a trick. > Conversely I cannot run AA with Softth which is a showstopper Agreed. It's something I notice almost as much as I notice screen flicker. Anti-aliasing is one of the truly great advances in computing, even at high resolution. > hence why I prefer the TH2Go solution. It's why I decided to bite the bullet last Monday. Found that Insight (UK) had a few in stock (unlike most retailers!) and hit the buy button. Apart from anything else, it's a much more elegant and transparent solution... though for the money you'd certainly expect it to be! :-) Andrew McP

[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote: > I'll certainly investigate further. You sound as fussy as me when it > comes to screen flicker, so I may be missing a trick. Making sure vsync is enabled seems to help a little. But I'm still getting eyestrain before very long. I didn't get this with the two screen experiment (where I could have an 75Hz refresh rate on the CRT, and both screens were right in front of me) so I'm hoping this is a refresh rate issue, not an allergy to ultra-widescreen wraparound confus-o-vision(tm). For the time being it looks like the widescreen experiment is over. Phase two will begin when I make my mind up about the way forward with screens. So many options, none of them hugely expensive (unless I get a much bigger desk), but all of them costly if I regret buying three of something! Andrew McP

Andrew MacPherson wrote: > For the time being it looks like the widescreen experiment is over. Phase > two will begin when I make my mind up about the way forward with screens. > So many options, none of them hugely expensive (unless I get a much > bigger desk), but all of them costly if I regret buying three of > something! To add to your option list, SLI multi monitor support from nVidia: http://tinyurl.com/69274u Cheers Tony

[email hidden] (Tony R) wrote: > To add to your option list, SLI multi monitor support from nVidia: Er... cheers Tony. Just what I needed, another option! ;-) Andrew McP