There seems to be an incompatibility of Sierra GPL 1.2.0.1 and the Guillemot
Ferrari Force Feedback wheel:
Force Feedback works fine for a while. Then one of two things happens. 1:
The resistance when turning the wheel right disappears. Or 2: The resistance
when turning the wheel right suddenly is much higher, centering the wheel
even when the car is standing still or laying upside down. When turning the
wheel left, forces are rendered as usual. Shift-R or returning to the pits
does not help. After canceling the race and starting a new one, everything
works fine again.
My configuration:
German GPL, updated to 1.2.0.1, OpenGL patch installed.
Ferrari Force Feedback wheel with driver update 1.2.3 installed, connected
via USB
Windows 98SE, DirectX 7.0a
Eric
Eric, there is no incompatibility. This is the first we've heard of this.
What are your controller panel and core.ini settings? When the wheel is
working, does it feel okay?
Slot
Eric Walter <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:B50ADCA9.92B1%[email hidden]...
> There seems to be an incompatibility of Sierra GPL 1.2.0.1 and theGuillemot
> Ferrari Force Feedback wheel:
>
> Force Feedback works fine for a while. Then one of two things happens. 1:
> The resistance when turning the wheel right disappears. Or 2: Theresistance
> when turning the wheel right suddenly is much higher, centering the wheel
> even when the car is standing still or laying upside down. When turningthe
Quoted text (14 lines)
> wheel left, forces are rendered as usual. Shift-R or returning to the pits > does not help. After canceling the race and starting a new one, everything > works fine again. > > My configuration: > > German GPL, updated to 1.2.0.1, OpenGL patch installed. > Ferrari Force Feedback wheel with driver update 1.2.3 installed, connected > via USB > Windows 98SE, DirectX 7.0a > > > Eric >Set the spring rating to zero in the Guillemot applet
Let GPL handle all the FF settings
Have to reset it for other games though
Tony
"Eric Walter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:B50ADCA9.92B1%[email hidden]...
> There seems to be an incompatibility of Sierra GPL 1.2.0.1 and theGuillemot
> Ferrari Force Feedback wheel:
>
> Force Feedback works fine for a while. Then one of two things happens. 1:
> The resistance when turning the wheel right disappears. Or 2: Theresistance
> when turning the wheel right suddenly is much higher, centering the wheel
> even when the car is standing still or laying upside down. When turningthe
Quoted text (14 lines)
> wheel left, forces are rendered as usual. Shift-R or returning to the pits > does not help. After canceling the race and starting a new one, everything > works fine again. > > My configuration: > > German GPL, updated to 1.2.0.1, OpenGL patch installed. > Ferrari Force Feedback wheel with driver update 1.2.3 installed, connected > via USB > Windows 98SE, DirectX 7.0a > > > Eric >Slot,
just tried setting spring gain to 0. This in fact did cure the problem!
There is also a previous post by Mats Lofkvist who had the same problem and
same solution. It really seems there is a bug that will sometimes result in
a spring force command sent to the driver that does not get deleted until
the driver is reset when canceling the race.
Now that the forces aren't completely messed up anymore I can start
optimizing the settings. I'm still using default values in core.ini. I'm
surprised that damping gain in the controller panel should have an effect in
GPL. Some have said that GPL only used vector forces?
Eric
> From: "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]>
>
> Gents, I think Eric has abandoned this thread, but you can't just say that
> turning the spring rate to zero will cure his problem when you don't know
> what his settings are. Maybe it's already zero, except that there is no
> spring 'rate' to adjust.
Agreed...this is the answer.
Marc.
"Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:8m9F4.1347$[email hidden]...
1:
> > The resistance when turning the wheel right disappears. Or 2: The
> resistance
> > when turning the wheel right suddenly is much higher, centering thewheel
> > even when the car is standing still or laying upside down. When turning
> the
> > wheel left, forces are rendered as usual. Shift-R or returning to thepits
> > does not help. After canceling the race and starting a new one,everything
> > works fine again.
> >
> > My configuration:
> >
> > German GPL, updated to 1.2.0.1, OpenGL patch installed.
> > Ferrari Force Feedback wheel with driver update 1.2.3 installed,connected
Quoted text (15 lines)
> Set the spring rating to zero in the Guillemot applet > > Let GPL handle all the FF settings > > Have to reset it for other games though > > Tony > > "Eric Walter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:B50ADCA9.92B1%[email hidden]... > > There seems to be an incompatibility of Sierra GPL 1.2.0.1 and the > Guillemot > > Ferrari Force Feedback wheel: > > > > Force Feedback works fine for a while. Then one of two things happens.Quoted text (8 lines)
> > via USB > > Windows 98SE, DirectX 7.0a > > > > > > Eric > > > >On Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:09:08 GMT Tony Rickard <[email hidden]> wrote:
% Set the spring rating to zero in the Guillemot applet
GPL automatically turns this off I thought (unless you have it checked
as always on).
% Let GPL handle all the FF settings
% Have to reset it for other games though
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
[email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
On Sat, 01 Apr 2000 00:49:08 GMT Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote:
% Agreed...this is the answer.
Doesn't make any difference with my wheel....
% "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
% news:8m9F4.1347$[email hidden]...
% > Set the spring rating to zero in the Guillemot applet
% >
% > Let GPL handle all the FF settings
% >
% > Have to reset it for other games though
% >
% > Tony
% >
% > "Eric Walter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
% > news:B50ADCA9.92B1%[email hidden]...
% > > There seems to be an incompatibility of Sierra GPL 1.2.0.1 and the
% > Guillemot
% > > Ferrari Force Feedback wheel:
% > >
% > > Force Feedback works fine for a while. Then one of two things happens.
% 1:
% > > The resistance when turning the wheel right disappears. Or 2: The
% > resistance
% > > when turning the wheel right suddenly is much higher, centering the
% wheel
% > > even when the car is standing still or laying upside down. When turning
% > the
% > > wheel left, forces are rendered as usual. Shift-R or returning to the
% pits
% > > does not help. After canceling the race and starting a new one,
% everything
% > > works fine again.
% > >
% > > My configuration:
% > >
% > > German GPL, updated to 1.2.0.1, OpenGL patch installed.
% > > Ferrari Force Feedback wheel with driver update 1.2.3 installed,
% connected
% > > via USB
% > > Windows 98SE, DirectX 7.0a
% > >
% > >
% > > Eric
% > >
% >
% >
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
[email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I agree! The spring rate is only for games that don't have FF unless you
check the box 'always on'. Spring rate setting makes no difference in GPL.
Iain
Michael E. Carver <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1HcF4.59$[email hidden]...
> On Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:09:08 GMT Tony Rickard<[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted text (14 lines)
> % Set the spring rating to zero in the Guillemot applet > > GPL automatically turns this off I thought (unless you have it checked > as always on). > > % Let GPL handle all the FF settings > > % Have to reset it for other games though > > -- > **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. > [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Gents, I think Eric has abandoned this thread, but you can't just say that
turning the spring rate to zero will cure his problem when you don't know
what his settings are. Maybe it's already zero, except that there is no
spring 'rate' to adjust. There is Spring Gain and Default Spring. GPL
doesn't use Spring Force programming, so Spring Gain should have no effect
except that it could introduce spurious, unwanted effects. To be safe, turn
this off in GPL. Damping Gain, however, does work in GPL to add viscosity to
the wheel and does this without loss of detail. Adding Damper Gain to get
more 'stiffness' in your wheel is a far better alternative than clamping
your effects by using a low Torque value (like 40 or 80) in GPL's core.ini
to achieve the same effect. Default Spring also works in GPL when the
'always on' box is checked. GPL's core.ini settings should work with, not
against, your controller panel settings. All the settings are also very
wheel dependant, not just brand dependant. If your wheel is 3 months old and
you're still using the same settings you used when it was new, you could be
missing something.
Slot
"Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:yehF4.1418$[email hidden]...
< ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
Quoted text (22 lines)
> I agree! The spring rate is only for games that don't have FF unless you > check the box 'always on'. Spring rate setting makes no difference in GPL. > Iain > > Michael E. Carver <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:1HcF4.59$[email hidden]... > > On Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:09:08 GMT Tony Rickard > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > % Set the spring rating to zero in the Guillemot applet > > > > GPL automatically turns this off I thought (unless you have it checked > > as always on). > > > > % Let GPL handle all the FF settings > > > > % Have to reset it for other games though > > > > -- > > **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* > > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. > > [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [-Hi Eric,
Yup, it's always a good idea to turn the Spring Gain down in GPL. I don't
really think it's a bug, as in something that can be fixed, just something
that gets by DirectX on some computers when you try introducing a factor
that shouldn't be there.
GPL does use Constant Force programming (Vector Forces in I-force Studio)
which, of course, is why the Spring Gain should have no effect, but Damper
Gain is not, ummm..... Anti-Spring Gain ( for lack of a better term). It's
independent of spring forces. Unfortunately, damper is a term that seems to
have several meanings in games, and isn't always the same thing as the
Damper in Windows controller panel. The controller panel Damper setting adds
viscosity to your wheel. Kind of like going to the beach and standing waist
deep in water, then trying to run to shore. It's not the same as Default
Spring either. Default Spring adds a constant pressure to both sides of the
wheel and makes it harder to turn, but whether you turn the wheel rapidly or
slowly, default spring feels the same. With damping, the wheel will turn
harder if you try to turn it fast, and have almost no effect when turning it
slowly. Like walking slowly in the water isn't that hard, but running is.
You may get some ideas here: http://home.maine.rr.com/deroy/howto.htm
Glad to see you didn't abandon the thread.
Slot
"Eric Walter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:B50C2634.9885%[email hidden]...
> Slot,
>
> just tried setting spring gain to 0. This in fact did cure the problem!
> There is also a previous post by Mats Lofkvist who had the same problemand
> same solution. It really seems there is a bug that will sometimes resultin
> a spring force command sent to the driver that does not get deleted until
> the driver is reset when canceling the race.
>
> Now that the forces aren't completely messed up anymore I can start
> optimizing the settings. I'm still using default values in core.ini. I'm
> surprised that damping gain in the controller panel should have an effectin
that
> > turning the spring rate to zero will cure his problem when you don'tknow
> > what his settings are. Maybe it's already zero, except that there is no
> > spring 'rate' to adjust.
>
Quoted text (7 lines)
> GPL. Some have said that GPL only used vector forces? > > Eric > > > From: "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> > > > > Gents, I think Eric has abandoned this thread, but you can't just saySlot,
I thought the damping gain in the controller panel would only be relevant if
the game sends damping forces to the controller? Does GPL really generate
damping forces in addition to the vector forces?
Anyway, it'll be a while before I can do more testing as my Ferrari wheel
just quit generating any forces at all (after only about 15 hours of use).
Reinstalled the drivers and I still don't even get forces in the "Test
Forces" section of the controller panel.
Eric
Quoted text (7 lines)
> GPL does use Constant Force programming (Vector Forces in I-force Studio) > which, of course, is why the Spring Gain should have no effect, but Damper > Gain is not, ummm..... Anti-Spring Gain ( for lack of a better term). It's > independent of spring forces. Unfortunately, damper is a term that seems to > have several meanings in games, and isn't always the same thing as the > Damper in Windows controller panel. The controller panel Damper setting adds > viscosity to your wheel.It went completely dead, I'll return it today...
Eric
> Sorry to hear the wheel quit ;..( With the beatings FF devices take, I'm
> surprised it doesn't happen more often. Does applying default spring have
> any effect, or is it just plain dead?
You definately feel the damper from controller panel. Quite strong.
Sorry to hear the wheel quit ;..( With the beatings FF devices take, I'm
surprised it doesn't happen more often. Does applying default spring have
any effect, or is it just plain dead?
Slot
"Eric Walter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:B50E4BC4.9BA4%[email hidden]...
> Slot,
>
> I thought the damping gain in the controller panel would only be relevantif
Studio)
> > which, of course, is why the Spring Gain should have no effect, butDamper
> > Gain is not, ummm..... Anti-Spring Gain ( for lack of a better term).It's
> > independent of spring forces. Unfortunately, damper is a term thatseems to
> > have several meanings in games, and isn't always the same thing as the
> > Damper in Windows controller panel. The controller panel Damper settingadds
> > viscosity to your wheel.
>
Quoted text (11 lines)
> the game sends damping forces to the controller? Does GPL really generate > damping forces in addition to the vector forces? > > Anyway, it'll be a while before I can do more testing as my Ferrari wheel > just quit generating any forces at all (after only about 15 hours of use). > Reinstalled the drivers and I still don't even get forces in the "Test > Forces" section of the controller panel. > > Eric > > > GPL does use Constant Force programming (Vector Forces in I-forceYou feel the damper in Control Panel, but not in games where FF is used. It
is switched off and left to the control of the FF effects.
Iain
GTX_SlotCar <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:rQaG4.4494$[email hidden]...
> You definately feel the damper from controller panel. Quite strong.
>
> Sorry to hear the wheel quit ;..( With the beatings FF devices take,I'm
relevant
> if
> > the game sends damping forces to the controller? Does GPL reallygenerate
> > damping forces in addition to the vector forces?
> >
> > Anyway, it'll be a while before I can do more testing as my Ferrariwheel
> > just quit generating any forces at all (after only about 15 hours ofuse).
setting
> adds
> > > viscosity to your wheel.
> >
>
>
Quoted text (11 lines)
> surprised it doesn't happen more often. Does applying default spring have > any effect, or is it just plain dead? > > Slot > > > "Eric Walter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:B50E4BC4.9BA4%[email hidden]... > > Slot, > > > > I thought the damping gain in the controller panel would only beQuoted text (15 lines)
> > Reinstalled the drivers and I still don't even get forces in the "Test > > Forces" section of the controller panel. > > > > Eric > > > > > GPL does use Constant Force programming (Vector Forces in I-force > Studio) > > > which, of course, is why the Spring Gain should have no effect, but > Damper > > > Gain is not, ummm..... Anti-Spring Gain ( for lack of a better term). > It's > > > independent of spring forces. Unfortunately, damper is a term that > seems to > > > have several meanings in games, and isn't always the same thing as the > > > Damper in Windows controller panel. The controller panel DamperI've been following various threads on the problems with the Ferrari in
the hope of a solution, and have pretty much had to give up playing GPL
because of the wheel. I get exactly the same problems as Eric.
Always happens after about 10-15 minutes, and the steering goes very
heavy, and sometimes also feels like there is a wide 'lump' to steer
over at the centre of the wheel.
Last night when this happened, I exited GPL with the wheel turned hard
right where it stayed, and went to the controller panel and when
entering properties, the wheel centered, with the correct (zero)
resistance when steering. But on exiting the panel, the wheel went back
hard right, with the heavy resistance. It's as if there is a FF command
the wheel gets stuck with, and whilst it can be cleared, the controller
panel returns the wheel to the state it was in before entering it. I
can only assume it is a bug in the wheel drivers, as no other FF wheel
seems to experience the problems.
I too have the updated FF drivers, and they made no difference. Same
spec as Eric apart from English GPL and using a V3 3000.
I bought the wheel for GPL and it's really annoying to have it ruin the
game for me.
In article <ED8F4.4044$[email hidden]>,
"GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Eric, there is no incompatibility. This is the first we've heard ofthis.
> What are your controller panel and core.ini settings? When the wheelis
happens. 1:
> > The resistance when turning the wheel right disappears. Or 2: The
> resistance
> > when turning the wheel right suddenly is much higher, centering thewheel
> > even when the car is standing still or laying upside down. Whenturning
> the
> > wheel left, forces are rendered as usual. Shift-R or returning tothe pits
> > does not help. After canceling the race and starting a new one,everything
> > works fine again.
> >
> > My configuration:
> >
> > German GPL, updated to 1.2.0.1, OpenGL patch installed.
> > Ferrari Force Feedback wheel with driver update 1.2.3 installed,connected
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Quoted text (11 lines)
> working, does it feel okay? > > Slot > > Eric Walter <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:B50ADCA9.92B1%[email hidden]... > > There seems to be an incompatibility of Sierra GPL 1.2.0.1 and the > Guillemot > > Ferrari Force Feedback wheel: > > > > Force Feedback works fine for a while. Then one of two thingsQuoted text (8 lines)
> > via USB > > Windows 98SE, DirectX 7.0a > > > > > > Eric > > > >In article <8cetaq$6fn$[email hidden]>
II <[email hidden]> wrote:
Hum, I thought I was the only one having this problem. The FF disappears
after a while (haven't gotten that heavy resistance problem yet). Do any of
you also have a problem when using the Ferrari wheel in non-FF mode, it
is never centered correctly, always steering slightly to the left when the
wheel is centered.
When it's working, it feels great, but it never works for a very long time :-(
Dennis.
> In article <ED8F4.4044$[email hidden]>,
> "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> Eric, there is no incompatibility. This is the first we've heard of this.
>> What are your controller panel and core.ini settings? When the wheel is
>> working, does it feel okay?
Quoted text (20 lines)
> I've been following various threads on the problems with the Ferrari in > the hope of a solution, and have pretty much had to give up playing GPL > because of the wheel. I get exactly the same problems as Eric. > > Always happens after about 10-15 minutes, and the steering goes very > heavy, and sometimes also feels like there is a wide 'lump' to steer > over at the centre of the wheel. > > Last night when this happened, I exited GPL with the wheel turned hard > right where it stayed, and went to the controller panel and when > entering properties, the wheel centered, with the correct (zero) > resistance when steering. But on exiting the panel, the wheel went back > hard right, with the heavy resistance. It's as if there is a FF command > the wheel gets stuck with, and whilst it can be cleared, the controller > panel returns the wheel to the state it was in before entering it. I > can only assume it is a bug in the wheel drivers, as no other FF wheel > seems to experience the problems. > > I too have the updated FF drivers, and they made no difference. Same > spec as Eric apart from English GPL and using a V3 3000.No like I say, and it seems to be much the same for Eric, after 10-15
mins, it goes *really* heavy with the 'lump' in the centre, like a
single force command is stuck. (Sometime's it goes slack with the
'lump'). I only just discovered the night before the last post that
entering the controller panel returns it to normal, until the panel is
exited. Though this might give a clue as to the cause.
It's only happens in GPL. I play Rally Championship and other FF games
for long periods of time with no problems.
I know the wheel isn't centered properly, and will get round to fixing
that with your instructions soon. But this is definately not connected
to that problem.
I knew I should have bought the Act Labs :o( I liked the physical wheel
and (standard) shifter of the Ferrari better though.
"GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> So, is the problem that the wheel likes to cock to one side instead of
> centering? It turns hard one way and easy the other? Like the forcesare not
> even on each side of the wheel?
>
> Slot
>
> "II" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:8cetaq$6fn$[email hidden]...
> > I've been following various threads on the problems with theFerrari in
> > the hope of a solution, and have pretty much had to give up playingGPL
hard
> > right where it stayed, and went to the controller panel and when
> > entering properties, the wheel centered, with the correct (zero)
> > resistance when steering. But on exiting the panel, the wheel wentback
> > hard right, with the heavy resistance. It's as if there is a FFcommand
> > the wheel gets stuck with, and whilst it can be cleared, thecontroller
> > panel returns the wheel to the state it was in before entering it. I
> > can only assume it is a bug in the wheel drivers, as no other FFwheel
> > seems to experience the problems.
> >
> > I too have the updated FF drivers, and they made no difference. Same
> > spec as Eric apart from English GPL and using a V3 3000.
> >
> > I bought the wheel for GPL and it's really annoying to have it ruinthe
> > game for me.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Quoted text (7 lines)
> > because of the wheel. I get exactly the same problems as Eric. > > > > Always happens after about 10-15 minutes, and the steering goes very > > heavy, and sometimes also feels like there is a wide 'lump' to steer > > over at the centre of the wheel. > > > > Last night when this happened, I exited GPL with the wheel turnedI guess I should have been more clear. When I said "you definately feel the
damper from controller panel.." I meant you 'feel the damper in from
controller panel while playing the game". I suppose I should say, I feel it
with the Ferrari and Force RS wheels, not 'you' feel it. But, in games where
I use Damping Gain, mainly SCGT, N3 and GPL, it certainly makes a big
difference and I do feel the damping, as I should. In games without (or not
using) FF, Damping Gain and Spring Gain make no difference. It only works
while using FF.
Slot
"Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:11gG4.43$[email hidden]...
> You feel the damper in Control Panel, but not in games where FF is used.It
have
term).
> > It's
> > > > independent of spring forces. Unfortunately, damper is a term that
> > seems to
> > > > have several meanings in games, and isn't always the same thing asthe
Quoted text (10 lines)
> is switched off and left to the control of the FF effects. > Iain > > GTX_SlotCar <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:rQaG4.4494$[email hidden]... > > You definately feel the damper from controller panel. Quite strong. > > > > Sorry to hear the wheel quit ;..( With the beatings FF devices take, > I'm > > surprised it doesn't happen more often. Does applying default springQuoted text (30 lines)
> > any effect, or is it just plain dead? > > > > Slot > > > > > > "Eric Walter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:B50E4BC4.9BA4%[email hidden]... > > > Slot, > > > > > > I thought the damping gain in the controller panel would only be > relevant > > if > > > the game sends damping forces to the controller? Does GPL really > generate > > > damping forces in addition to the vector forces? > > > > > > Anyway, it'll be a while before I can do more testing as my Ferrari > wheel > > > just quit generating any forces at all (after only about 15 hours of > use). > > > Reinstalled the drivers and I still don't even get forces in the "Test > > > Forces" section of the controller panel. > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > GPL does use Constant Force programming (Vector Forces in I-force > > Studio) > > > > which, of course, is why the Spring Gain should have no effect, but > > Damper > > > > Gain is not, ummm..... Anti-Spring Gain ( for lack of a betterQuoted text (9 lines)
> > > > Damper in Windows controller panel. The controller panel Damper > setting > > adds > > > > viscosity to your wheel. > > > > > > > > >The drivers are standard I-Force drivers. Identical to the Force RS driver.
In fact, you can run either wheel with either driver.
So, is the problem that the wheel likes to cock to one side instead of
centering? It turns hard one way and easy the other? Like the forces are not
even on each side of the wheel?
Slot
"II" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8cetaq$6fn$[email hidden]...


































