F1 Sim sound - a theory?

Now here is a theory for more knowledgeable sound recording experts to expand, ridicule whatever: When I rode a Yamaha TZR125 (gasps from the RAS audience!) with helmet on. It sounded pretty cool at 10000 rpm. I can't believe an F1 car is that muffled to the driver, bearing in mind an F1 car is a shade louder then my bike! I have also been in a (loud!) rally car with helmet on & it still sounded raucous. Now we hear on TV the recording from the mike built into an onboard camera. This camera is exposed to an enormous amount of wind noise. Is it filtered to reduce the wind noise hence the muffled sound? Would the driver's hear something different to what an on-board mike is capable of picking up under the circumstances? Should F1 sims simulate what a driver hears or simulate an on-board camera mike? I believe it is the former, the latter reserved for airbox camera replays. Any thoughts? Tony

In article <fRoH4.12191$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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>Now we hear on TV the recording from the mike built into an onboard camera. >This camera is exposed to an enormous amount of wind noise. Is it filtered >to reduce the wind noise hence the muffled sound? > >Would the driver's hear something different to what an on-board mike is >capable of picking up under the circumstances? > >Should F1 sims simulate what a driver hears or simulate an on-board camera >mike? > >I believe it is the former, the latter reserved for airbox camera replays.

If they made it sound like it does on TV, people would complain it isn't real. If they made it sound like it does in the car, people would complain it doesn't sound like they hear it on TV. HH

dentser! Now we're talking! Crank it up, you are right about the wimpy GP2 sound, it was way too tame for my taste. Jaz In article <RfvH4.4380$[email hidden]>, "D. \"Dents\" Hopkins" <[email hidden]> wrote: > I posted this on the High Gear forum: > > Just thought I'd pass this along... > GrandPaint created a sound "patch" for F12k, but I didnt much like the > engine sounds he used (from GP2). Recently, I downloaded the*excellent* > ferrari .mp3 from Patrick's Sound page, and was mightily impressed.That > recording inspired me and I tried to add to GrandPaint's "patch", toreflect > what I heard in the .mp3... to make a long story short, I took the GPL > ferrari sound, ramped it up a few notches, then tweaked it for maximum > speaker thrashing, and repackaged it in his kit. > > I'm quite happy with the results, and feel it more closely reflectsmy idea > of the roar of an F1 car :-) I changed the shifter sound to include abit of > "backfire thump" like the .mp3 had.... just so you know that sound isnot

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> the transmission falling out :-) > > I uploaded it to a shared directory on my driveway account at: > http://www.driveway.com/bin/share.jsp?sid=36e9db89.45e94 > > Dents. > > I purposely made the rev sound loud and obnoxious, 'cause I know the

TV > sound is muffled :-) > > "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:fRoH4.12191$[email hidden]... > > Now here is a theory for more knowledgeable sound recording expertsto > > expand, ridicule whatever: > > > > When I rode a Yamaha TZR125 (gasps from the RAS audience!) withhelmet on. > > It sounded pretty cool at 10000 rpm. I can't believe an F1 car isthat > > muffled to the driver, bearing in mind an F1 car is a shade louderthen my > > bike! > > > > I have also been in a (loud!) rally car with helmet on & it stillsounded > > raucous. > > > > Now we hear on TV the recording from the mike built into an onboard > camera. > > This camera is exposed to an enormous amount of wind noise. Is itfiltered > > to reduce the wind noise hence the muffled sound? > > > > Would the driver's hear something different to what an on-boardmike is > > capable of picking up under the circumstances? > > > > Should F1 sims simulate what a driver hears or simulate an on-boardcamera > > mike? > > > > I believe it is the former, the latter reserved for airbox camerareplays.

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> > > > Any thoughts? > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > > >

-- Jaz Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

> I read that the McLarens sound different but I cant really hear thedifference > on TV. Do they really sound different and if so is it a better or worsesound? > worse :)

I posted this on the High Gear forum: Just thought I'd pass this along... GrandPaint created a sound "patch" for F12k, but I didnt much like the engine sounds he used (from GP2). Recently, I downloaded the *excellent* ferrari .mp3 from Patrick's Sound page, and was mightily impressed. That recording inspired me and I tried to add to GrandPaint's "patch", to reflect what I heard in the .mp3... to make a long story short, I took the GPL ferrari sound, ramped it up a few notches, then tweaked it for maximum speaker thrashing, and repackaged it in his kit. I'm quite happy with the results, and feel it more closely reflects my idea of the roar of an F1 car :-) I changed the shifter sound to include a bit of "backfire thump" like the .mp3 had.... just so you know that sound is not the transmission falling out :-) I uploaded it to a shared directory on my driveway account at: http://www.driveway.com/bin/share.jsp?sid=36e9db89.45e94 Dents. I purposely made the rev sound loud and obnoxious, 'cause I know the TV sound is muffled :-) "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fRoH4.12191$[email hidden]...

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> Now here is a theory for more knowledgeable sound recording experts to > expand, ridicule whatever: > > When I rode a Yamaha TZR125 (gasps from the RAS audience!) with helmet on. > It sounded pretty cool at 10000 rpm. I can't believe an F1 car is that > muffled to the driver, bearing in mind an F1 car is a shade louder then my > bike! > > I have also been in a (loud!) rally car with helmet on & it still sounded > raucous. > > Now we hear on TV the recording from the mike built into an onboard

camera.

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> This camera is exposed to an enormous amount of wind noise. Is it filtered > to reduce the wind noise hence the muffled sound? > > Would the driver's hear something different to what an on-board mike is > capable of picking up under the circumstances? > > Should F1 sims simulate what a driver hears or simulate an on-board camera > mike? > > I believe it is the former, the latter reserved for airbox camera replays. > > Any thoughts? > > Tony > > > >

Race car driver have combination earplug/earphone that muffle the outside noise and allow them to hear the radio talk. It my understanding that an F1 car is so loud that its hard for the driver to hear the radio talk. I wouldn't be surprised if they used the in-car camera audio levels for F1 2000 default setting. MGPRS2 had a problem with quiet engine sound. I think F1 sims should simulate what the driver hears, although it would probably annoy the neighbors if you turned it up that loud. I think when watching TV, the audio should be stereo so that the car sound is one channel and the commentator is the other channel so you can turn down the talking and turn up the car sound when you want. When you watch a StarWars movie the sound is half the excitement. Auto racing is the same. Half the fun of going to a Top Fuel Dragster race is the sound that shakes the ground and your body. Why watch it on TV unless you can turn it up till the windows rattle. <G> I read that the McLarens sound different but I cant really hear the difference on TV. Do they really sound different and if so is it a better or worse sound? Lutrell Tony Rickard wrote in message ... > >Should F1 sims simulate what a driver hears or simulate an on-board camera >mike? >.

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> >Any thoughts? > >Tony > > > >

worse :)

"Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Now here is a theory for more knowledgeable sound recording experts to >expand, ridicule whatever: I do NOT qualify....keep this in mind <g>

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> >When I rode a Yamaha TZR125 (gasps from the RAS audience!) with helmet on. >It sounded pretty cool at 10000 rpm. I can't believe an F1 car is that >muffled to the driver, bearing in mind an F1 car is a shade louder then my >bike! >I have also been in a (loud!) rally car with helmet on & it still sounded >raucous.

A closed car isn't the same...

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>Now we hear on TV the recording from the mike built into an onboard camera. >This camera is exposed to an enormous amount of wind noise. Is it filtered >to reduce the wind noise hence the muffled sound? >Would the driver's hear something different to what an on-board mike is >capable of picking up under the circumstances? > >Should F1 sims simulate what a driver hears or simulate an on-board camera >mike? > >I believe it is the former, the latter reserved for airbox camera replays. > >Any thoughts?

I was watching the F1 Friday practice, this year Canal + is broadcasting a lot of Car to Pit radio and vice versa. They also switch to in car view with the appropriate driver when that happens. What I noticed is that the sound does differ a lot when you hear it through the Car-Pit radio. It's louder, rawer and richer compared with the onboard sound you usually hear... I must say that I liked the radio sound more... Remco

"HeadHunter" <[email hidden]> wrote > If they made it sound like it does on TV, people would complain it isn'treal. > > If they made it sound like it does in the car, people would complain itdoesn't > sound like they hear it on TV. Good analogy :) Still, just give us anything that sounds near the Ferrari engine from GPL in any racing simulator and we'll be happy. Couple this to transmission noise and 3dpositional sound and I'll take that for anything. F1, vintage, rally, even school bus demolition derbies ;-D -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.