Re: F1 2000 is Spectacular

Greg Cisko wrote:

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> 4) One of my biggest complaints about other modern F1 > racing games is the driving model in the turns. In GP2 and > F1RS you could be in a certain gear with the gas massed > down and never spin. Well in F1 2000 this isn't the case. > If you are stupid and over cook it in a turn you will spin (just > like Irvine did in Brazil). I am very impressed with the driving > model.

Yes, I've been on the gas a little too early at Piratella (Imola) and spun. However, I think that GP2 (with traction control turned off - F7) was even more sensitive to this. I haven't spent a ton of time with F1 2000 yet, so that's just a first impression. There doesn't seem to be much wheel spin at the start of the race, though. When the lights go off, I've just been stomping on the gas, with no apparent ill effect. Is that everyone else's experience? The game has some kinks, but I'm enjoying it. Can anyone give a detailed review of its multi-player mode? The manual vaguely refers to it being for high speed connections. What are the findings out there in the real world? Dave Ewing -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] *****************************************************

I hosted using cable with 3, 56k, clients. 1 client was always good (pretty much perfect!) after I turned the data-rate down to 4-6. Another client was satisfactory/racable. The 3rd client couldn't even start the race and was flying like a helicopter if he wasn't dropped at the start. After much testing, I found hosting with 2, 56k, clients was satisfactory using a data rate of 4. The connection between me and the 3rd client was wacko but it could have been just the Internet between us. What I need are 7 people to help me test ;-) Anyone for Saturday 12pm Eastern tests? Email me from my CSP page (very bottom of page). Jason. David Ewing wrote: > Can anyone give a detailed review of its multi-player mode? The manual > vaguely refers to it being for high speed connections. What are the > findings out there in the real world? > > Dave Ewing > -- Jason Monds http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N3, GPL) http://members.home.net/stuff.mondsj/csp - Car Sim Project (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

On Fri, 07 Apr 2000 13:49:10 GMT, [email hidden] (Remco Moedt) wrote: > >I'm not sure about F1-2000 modelling each tyre on it's own In F1-2000, if you quickly crank the steering to the lock in a slow, sharp turn, like a couple of the ones at Monaco, the inside front wheel will sometimes lift from the track and coast down slowly while the outside front continues around the corner. It will do this without braking. If you lightly tap the brakes while the slowly turning wheel is of the ground, it will stop. It definitely models the front wheels independently. -- * rrev at mindspring dot com *

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Greg Cisko wrote: > > > > F1RS has been deleted/removed and the box setup for sale :-) > > ?????????............TILT > > Uh, could you warn us the next time you post messages like that, I > almost got a heart attack ...:-)

Hey, the subject line was a big clue :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. Please reply to: cisko[AT] ix [dot] netcom [dot] com

Glad you like it as much as I do Greg, as I've said a couple of times in this group I've played enougth bad racing games to be able to recognise a good one : ) Also I've never had middle order runners battling over the lead, I would check tomake sure that you don't have 'all cars equal' switched to on Regards Mike On Fri, 7 Apr 2000 09:34:58 -0500, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Remco Moedt <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> For me the F1-2000 cockpit seems a bit out of wack....the front tyres >> are a bit weird... > >Huh. I guess I am not sure what you dislike. I was comparing >to F1RS. I bleieve the tires are way better than F1RS. I guess >it is a matter of tastes. > >> >F1 2000 on the other hand seems to solve all of these problems >> >for me. Additionally >> >> >1) I like the tire temp indicators on the wheel. Doing a burnout >> >will superheat your tires and make them very slippery. Don't >> >remember that in GP2 or F1RS. >> >> Cool eh? But do they exist in reallife? I don't think so.... > >No of course not, but they to help replace a sensation you >would have about the tire temps if you were actually driving >instead of sitting behind a flat screen. However the fact that >there are indicators which keep track of tire temps is very >cool IMHO. Nothing like that in F1RS or GP2 from what I >remember. Plus the temps translate into actual car handling >(or lack of it). > >> I'm not sure about F1-2000 modelling each tyre on it's own. I've the >> feeling it does only model the front and rear tyres, like ISI did with >> SCGT. (If you lock a front tyre, you lock them both). But I can be >> wrong about this... > >I believe they model the individual tires. I see the temp indicators >change for the tires individually. They also model the inner, middle >and outer parts of each tire. IMHO it is very good. Plus what >about those dozens of chassis setup options!! > >Also, I have seen the AI smoke from one tire and several tires >under braking. I do believe the tires are modeled individually. > >> >3) Scattered cars littering the track!!! YES! I was running 25% >> >races at Imola and starting in the rear. I worked my way up to >> >4th and spun out... But still on my way up there I was amazed >> >at all the broken cars littering the course. To me it adds im- >> >measurably to the experience. I also didn't get taken out as >> >I seemed to get used to racing with this game or something. >> >> I'm amazed too. Where is the red flag? This is a F1 game, not >> Mid Town Madness, or whatever it's called... > >Hey, where are the flags or flagmen??? I Like the fact that >they often wreck on the opening lap. It doesn't happen all >the time, but it HAPPENS! In F1RS it seemed to happen >5% of the time. > >> >5) In car radio communication... I really like it and it adds quite >> >a bit to the race. Yes it is stupid when you are congratulated >> >for passing a car that spun out but hey, it is better than nothing. >> >Plus you do get a good picture of the entire race. >> >> I miss the pitboard...the radio is pathetic IMO. > >Well I just thought that after N3 that a radio is essential. At the >moment I like it. Perhaps after time I won;t like it... > >> GP3 will feature the 1998 season, AFAIK. I think that F1-2000 >> does a very bad job WRT modelling the 2000 drivers. I've seen >> too often that Diniz/Button are fighting for first, and that the RL >> top 4 (Ferrari and McLaren drivers) are qualifying bad. > >Never saw this in a quick race. Mclaren and Ferrarri always >qual 1-4 and they 4 of them generally battle for the lead. Pretty >realistic actually. Too bad about GP3 doing the 98 season. >I really want to do the indy track. > >> The AI out of the box is just plain bad. Come on, half of the grid is >> crashing in the formation lap! And what about the 3 stop stategy >> in a 5 lap race? Gimme a break... > >I haven't done formation laps. I have run 10% and 25% races, >I never saw the AI pitting prematurely. It worked as normal. >Do you have tire & fuel usage accelerated? I Know sometimes >a car will pit after it spins and crashes. Then your crew cheif will >mention something about a pit stop strategy, but I have ignored >it as I know they are in the pits to fix body work or flatspotted >tires. > >> There are more flaws, but in the end I think that most things are >> easy to solve. I hope ISI will support this game, and that they >> patch at least the AI, multiplay practice, controller setup, >> FF, replays and a better way of storing the setups.... >> >> Oh Greg, did you like the FF? :-P > >Nope I think it sucks. It is as good as F1RS or SCGT though :-) > >bump bump bump....

After fooling around with settings and stuff, I have settled on F1 2000 as a keeper. F1RS has been deleted/removed and the box setup for sale :-) I really like the cockpit view in F1 2000 compared to F1RS. In F1RS, I always felt that the cockpit was simply a mask moving back and forth over the screen. And the framerate in F1RS always felt a little "weird" and flat. Despite this, I really liked F1RS quite allot. F1 2000 on the other hand seems to solve all of these problems for me. Additionally 1) I like the tire temp indicators on the wheel. Doing a burnout will superheat your tires and make them very slippery. Don't remember that in GP2 or F1RS. 2) Riding the kurbs like the real guys is also very cool. I never remember doing that in F1RS. But we all know that riding the kurbs is essential to a good lap time these days. F1 2000 really shows this IMHO. 3) Scattered cars littering the track!!! YES! I was running 25% races at Imola and starting in the rear. I worked my way up to 4th and spun out... But still on my way up there I was amazed at all the broken cars littering the course. To me it adds im- measurably to the experience. I also didn't get taken out as I seemed to get used to racing with this game or something. 4) One of my biggest complaints about other modern F1 racing games is the driving model in the turns. In GP2 and F1RS you could be in a certain gear with the gas massed down and never spin. Well in F1 2000 this isn't the case. If you are stupid and over cook it in a turn you will spin (just like Irvine did in Brazil). I am very impressed with the driving model. 5) In car radio communication... I really like it and it adds quite a bit to the race. Yes it is stupid when you are congratulated for passing a car that spun out but hey, it is better than nothing. Plus you do get a good picture of the entire race. Will GP3 be better than F1 2000? I don't know. Will it have a driving model which is as good as F1 2000? Will it have in car radio comms? Will it have better framerates? If the previous versions are any indication I am not holding my breath. I think F1 2000 may be very competitive with GP3 and could quite possibly be the better modern F1 sim. Besides, will GP3 have the current season and cars and tracks in the game? Or will it be crippled by licensing and have fake names? Will it have the new indy track? Since I already have my Sept 24th tickets for the US GP this year, I am very interested in racing there in the game. Finally my system specs are: DELL P2-450, 128MB, 16GB HDD, 16MB TNT, 12MB Voodoo2 card and SBPCI64 soundcard. I ran the game at 800x600 with 6 cars drawn, but still had the full field of 22 cars for racing and test. Mirrors are on with additional mirror objects off. FRAPS gave me a solid 20fps in testing and 15-16 in a quick race. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Remco Moedt wrote: > > ...Apart from the (suspicious) fact that your > brakes don't respond fast enough when you release the brakes after > you've locked the tyres, I think that the physics model is quite ok. I haven't had that trouble. > I'm not sure about F1-2000 modelling each tyre on it's own. I've the > feeling it does only model the front and rear tyres, like ISI did with > SCGT. (If you lock a front tyre, you lock them both). But I can be > wrong about this... You can easily see the front wheels locking independently of each other. Whenever you are turning, and the majority of weight has transferred to the outside wheel, the inside wheel will lock up much more easily. -- Pat Dotson IMPACT Motorsports http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

Remco Moedt <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > For me the F1-2000 cockpit seems a bit out of wack....the front tyres > are a bit weird... Huh. I guess I am not sure what you dislike. I was comparing to F1RS. I bleieve the tires are way better than F1RS. I guess it is a matter of tastes.

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> >F1 2000 on the other hand seems to solve all of these problems > >for me. Additionally > > >1) I like the tire temp indicators on the wheel. Doing a burnout > >will superheat your tires and make them very slippery. Don't > >remember that in GP2 or F1RS. > > Cool eh? But do they exist in reallife? I don't think so....

No of course not, but they to help replace a sensation you would have about the tire temps if you were actually driving instead of sitting behind a flat screen. However the fact that there are indicators which keep track of tire temps is very cool IMHO. Nothing like that in F1RS or GP2 from what I remember. Plus the temps translate into actual car handling (or lack of it). > I'm not sure about F1-2000 modelling each tyre on it's own. I've the > feeling it does only model the front and rear tyres, like ISI did with > SCGT. (If you lock a front tyre, you lock them both). But I can be > wrong about this... I believe they model the individual tires. I see the temp indicators change for the tires individually. They also model the inner, middle and outer parts of each tire. IMHO it is very good. Plus what about those dozens of chassis setup options!! Also, I have seen the AI smoke from one tire and several tires under braking. I do believe the tires are modeled individually.

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> >3) Scattered cars littering the track!!! YES! I was running 25% > >races at Imola and starting in the rear. I worked my way up to > >4th and spun out... But still on my way up there I was amazed > >at all the broken cars littering the course. To me it adds im- > >measurably to the experience. I also didn't get taken out as > >I seemed to get used to racing with this game or something. > > I'm amazed too. Where is the red flag? This is a F1 game, not > Mid Town Madness, or whatever it's called...

Hey, where are the flags or flagmen??? I Like the fact that they often wreck on the opening lap. It doesn't happen all the time, but it HAPPENS! In F1RS it seemed to happen 5% of the time. > >5) In car radio communication... I really like it and it adds quite > >a bit to the race. Yes it is stupid when you are congratulated > >for passing a car that spun out but hey, it is better than nothing. > >Plus you do get a good picture of the entire race. > > I miss the pitboard...the radio is pathetic IMO. Well I just thought that after N3 that a radio is essential. At the moment I like it. Perhaps after time I won;t like it... > GP3 will feature the 1998 season, AFAIK. I think that F1-2000 > does a very bad job WRT modelling the 2000 drivers. I've seen > too often that Diniz/Button are fighting for first, and that the RL > top 4 (Ferrari and McLaren drivers) are qualifying bad. Never saw this in a quick race. Mclaren and Ferrarri always qual 1-4 and they 4 of them generally battle for the lead. Pretty realistic actually. Too bad about GP3 doing the 98 season. I really want to do the indy track. > The AI out of the box is just plain bad. Come on, half of the grid is > crashing in the formation lap! And what about the 3 stop stategy > in a 5 lap race? Gimme a break... I haven't done formation laps. I have run 10% and 25% races, I never saw the AI pitting prematurely. It worked as normal. Do you have tire & fuel usage accelerated? I Know sometimes a car will pit after it spins and crashes. Then your crew cheif will mention something about a pit stop strategy, but I have ignored it as I know they are in the pits to fix body work or flatspotted tires. > There are more flaws, but in the end I think that most things are > easy to solve. I hope ISI will support this game, and that they > patch at least the AI, multiplay practice, controller setup, > FF, replays and a better way of storing the setups.... > > Oh Greg, did you like the FF? :-P Nope I think it sucks. It is as good as F1RS or SCGT though :-) bump bump bump.... -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. Please reply to: cisko[AT] ix [dot] netcom [dot] com

"Greg Cisko" <no.spam.email.for.me> wrote: >I really like the cockpit view in F1 2000 compared to F1RS. In >F1RS, I always felt that the cockpit was simply a mask moving >back and forth over the screen. And the framerate in F1RS >always felt a little "weird" and flat. Despite this, I really liked >F1RS quite allot. For me the F1-2000 cockpit seems a bit out of wack....the front tyres are a bit weird... >F1 2000 on the other hand seems to solve all of these problems >for me. Additionally >1) I like the tire temp indicators on the wheel. Doing a burnout >will superheat your tires and make them very slippery. Don't >remember that in GP2 or F1RS. Cool eh? But do they exist in reallife? I don't think so.... >2) Riding the kurbs like the real guys is also very cool. I never >remember doing that in F1RS. But we all know that riding the >kurbs is essential to a good lap time these days. F1 2000 >really shows this IMHO. F1-2000 does have a (decent) 3D physics model, F1RS didn't....of course, F1RS is from 1997...Apart from the (suspicious) fact that your brakes don't respond fast enough when you release the brakes after you've locked the tyres, I think that the physics model is quite ok. The feedback is maybe a bit overdone, but that may be a good thing. I'm not sure about F1-2000 modelling each tyre on it's own. I've the feeling it does only model the front and rear tyres, like ISI did with SCGT. (If you lock a front tyre, you lock them both). But I can be wrong about this... >3) Scattered cars littering the track!!! YES! I was running 25% >races at Imola and starting in the rear. I worked my way up to >4th and spun out... But still on my way up there I was amazed >at all the broken cars littering the course. To me it adds im- >measurably to the experience. I also didn't get taken out as >I seemed to get used to racing with this game or something. I'm amazed too. Where is the red flag? This is a F1 game, not Mid Town Madness, or whatever it's called...

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>4) One of my biggest complaints about other modern F1 >racing games is the driving model in the turns. In GP2 and >F1RS you could be in a certain gear with the gas massed >down and never spin. Well in F1 2000 this isn't the case. >If you are stupid and over cook it in a turn you will spin (just >like Irvine did in Brazil). I am very impressed with the driving >model.

You mean the power-on snap oversteer? Yeah, it's great, but still too soft IMO. The car is too easy to control when you drive away with full throttle from stand still... >5) In car radio communication... I really like it and it adds quite >a bit to the race. Yes it is stupid when you are congratulated >for passing a car that spun out but hey, it is better than nothing. >Plus you do get a good picture of the entire race. I miss the pitboard...the radio is pathetic IMO. >Besides, will GP3 have the current season and cars and >tracks in the game? Or will it be crippled by licensing and >have fake names? Will it have the new indy track? Since >I already have my Sept 24th tickets for the US GP this >year, I am very interested in racing there in the game. GP3 will feature the 1998 season, AFAIK. I think that F1-2000 does a very bad job WRT modelling the 2000 drivers. I've seen too often that Diniz/Button are fighting for first, and that the RL top 4 (Ferrari and McLaren drivers) are qualifying bad. The AI out of the box is just plain bad. Come on, half of the grid is crashing in the formation lap! And what about the 3 stop stategy in a 5 lap race? Gimme a break... There are more flaws, but in the end I think that most things are easy to solve. I hope ISI will support this game, and that they patch at least the AI, multiplay practice, controller setup, FF, replays and a better way of storing the setups.... Oh Greg, did you like the FF? :-P Remco

Greg Cisko wrote: > > F1RS has been deleted/removed and the box setup for sale :-) ?????????............TILT Uh, could you warn us the next time you post messages like that, I almost got a heart attack ...:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

>I'm not sure about F1-2000 modelling each tyre on it's own. I've the >feeling it does only model the front and rear tyres, like ISI did with >SCGT. (If you lock a front tyre, you lock them both). But I can be >wrong about this... While I'm not positive, I believe that I did get a glimpse of one front locking up while the other was still spinning. >You mean the power-on snap oversteer? Yeah, it's great, but still >too soft IMO. The car is too easy to control when you drive away >with full throttle from stand still... Yeah, in this instance, it seems almost as if it has traction control.

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>The AI out of the box is just plain bad. Come on, half of the grid is >crashing in the formation lap! And what about the 3 stop stategy >in a 5 lap race? Gimme a break... > >There are more flaws, but in the end I think that most things are >easy to solve. I hope ISI will support this game, and that they >patch at least the AI, multiplay practice, controller setup, >FF, replays and a better way of storing the setups....

> The AI out of the box is just plain bad. Come on, half of the grid is > crashing in the formation lap!Never seen that problem. >And what about the 3 stop stategy in a 5 lap race? Gimme a break...The 3 stop strategy doesn't happen in a 5 lap race, it's just that the guy on the radio thinks that because a driver goes in the pits on lap 1 or 2 for repairs, that he's on a 3 stop strategy. Silly, but no big deal! Iain

Thanks for the report Greg. I picked up a copy at Best Buy on my way home from work today, looking foward to loading it up later this evening and giving it a whirl. I'll let y'all know what I think about it tomorrow. -- Don Burnette Dburn in N3 and Legends "Greg Cisko" <no.spam.email.for.me> wrote in message news:8ckk2i$rnu$[email hidden]... > After fooling around with settings and stuff, I have settled on > F1 2000 as a keeper. F1RS has been deleted/removed > and the box setup for sale :-) snip

Peter Cook <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:C4PH4.1383$[email hidden]... > IF you turn throttle assist and steering assist of you will get heaps of > wheelspin and the tendency to follow the racing line dissappears also. They are both off, but I want to have high revs and drop the clutch at the start just like the real guys :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

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> Finally my system specs are: DELL P2-450, 128MB, > 16GB HDD, 16MB TNT, 12MB Voodoo2 card and > SBPCI64 soundcard. I ran the game at 800x600 with > 6 cars drawn, but still had the full field of 22 cars for > racing and test. Mirrors are on with additional mirror > objects off. FRAPS gave me a solid 20fps in testing > and 15-16 in a quick race. > > --

hi which card are you using , tnt or voodoo for those framerates ? Also what is FRAPS.... if you could , pls email me your setting I am pulling my hair out to get some meaningful action in quick race but the starting does really spoils things for me. things are ok in testing though I have basically your hardware except voodoo2

Jason Monds <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I hosted using cable with 3, 56k, clients. 1 client was always good(pretty > much perfect!) after I turned the data-rate down to 4-6. Another clientwas > satisfactory/racable. The 3rd client couldn't even start the race and was > flying like a helicopter if he wasn't dropped at the start. > > After much testing, I found hosting with 2, 56k, clients was satisfactory > using a data rate of 4. The connection between me and the 3rd client was > wacko but it could have been just the Internet between us. What I needare 7 > people to help me test ;-) Anyone for Saturday 12pm Eastern tests? Emailme > from my CSP page (very bottom of page). I'll be interested but have to wait until the end of the month when I am expecting to get DSL. I'm not even going to try with 56K. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com > > David Ewing wrote: > > > Can anyone give a detailed review of its multi-player mode? The manual > > vaguely refers to it being for high speed connections. What are the > > findings out there in the real world? > > > > Dave Ewing > > > > -- > Jason Monds > http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N3, GPL) > http://members.home.net/stuff.mondsj/csp - Car Sim Project > (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying) > >

David Ewing <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > There doesn't seem to be much wheel spin at the start of the race, > though. When the lights go off, I've just been stomping on the gas, with > no apparent ill effect. Is that everyone else's experience? I have been doing a bunch of quick races at Imola starting in the rear. It seems that the car automatically goes to the left (racing line) at the start. And there indeed does not appear to be massive wheel spin. Nothing like N3 where you could almost do donuts. Maybe it is because the tires are heated already? This does bring up one thing that GPL has that all F1 sims should have. A clutch... I would love to put it in gear, clutch in, 18k rpm and let the clutch go at the start... I haven't read the manual yet! After you are just supposed to go fast an it isn;t that complicated of a thing to understand :-) Anyway, maybe F1 2000 has a clutch command that I don't know about? -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

David I don't have much experience with F12000, but my son & I connected twice last night and raced without problems. He has a cable hi-speed modem and I have a regular dial-up connection. I did see a few strange things--such as my Son's Jordan parked on the left side of the pit straight waiting for me but in my rearview mirror he was nose to the wall on the right side of the track and within a couple of seconds he was under my rear wing gerry >David Ewing wrote:<

> There doesn't seem to be much wheel spin at the start of the race, > though. When the lights go off, I've just been stomping on the gas, with > no apparent ill effect. Is that everyone else's experience? >Definitely not mine! I have to practise starts a lot as getting the pedal pressure right to avoid wheel spin is crucial to raceposition. Do you have any aids on? Iain

rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On Fri, 07 Apr 2000 13:49:10 GMT, [email hidden] (Remco Moedt) wrote: > >> >>I'm not sure about F1-2000 modelling each tyre on it's own > >In F1-2000, if you quickly crank the steering to the lock in a slow, >sharp turn, like a couple of the ones at Monaco, the inside front wheel >will sometimes lift from the track and coast down slowly while the >outside front continues around the corner. It will do this without braking. >If you lightly tap the brakes while the slowly turning wheel is of the ground, >it will stop. > >It definitely models the front wheels independently.

Ah, ok. But I'm still confused. When I drive with the right tyres on the dirt, and I brake, I would expect the right front wheel to lock sooner then the one on the tarmac. But this doesn't happen. The car also doesn't move to the left, something I would expect. So maybe the problem isn't the tyremodelling, but the modelling of the dirt...Hmm, that's a new one, "I don't like Game X because it doesn't handle dirt well" <g> (Don't get me wrong, I like driving F1-2000...) Remco

"Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Remco Moedt <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> For me the F1-2000 cockpit seems a bit out of wack....the front tyres >> are a bit weird... > >Huh. I guess I am not sure what you dislike. I was comparing >to F1RS. I bleieve the tires are way better than F1RS. I guess >it is a matter of tastes.

Oh yes, It's way better then F1RS....After some thought I believe the viewpoint is a bit higher then I would expect, but then, I'm a small guy. <g>

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>> I'm amazed too. Where is the red flag? This is a F1 game, not >> Mid Town Madness, or whatever it's called... > >Hey, where are the flags or flagmen??? I Like the fact that >they often wreck on the opening lap. It doesn't happen all >the time, but it HAPPENS! In F1RS it seemed to happen >5% of the time.

Hmmm, the AI seems to behave different on my system. I'll try a reinstall.. >bump bump bump.... Hehe Remco

Pat Dotson <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Remco Moedt wrote: >> >> ...Apart from the (suspicious) fact that your >> brakes don't respond fast enough when you release the brakes after >> you've locked the tyres, I think that the physics model is quite ok. > >I haven't had that trouble.

Oh, thank you. I'm glad to hear this, so I can investigate... Remco

Greg Cisko wrote: > > Pat Dotson <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > I think there is too much grip available > > in the grass and dirt. You can easily > > I don't notice that at all. I tried what Remco was talking about regarding putting one wheel in the grass, and trying to make that wheel lock, while the other is still moving. It's a little tough to do, but it does happen. You have to hit just the right spot with the brakes. In real life I think the wheel in the grass would lock very easily. If you look in the Terradry.aiw file, you'll see that the grass is given a friction value of 0.7 compared to 1.0 on roads. There is no way that you'll ever get 70% of the cars turning ability on grass that it has on pavement :) If you just put two wheels off while going straight, the reaction is believable. There are times, though, when I go way to hot into a turn and get two wheels off when I should be at the apex, yet still keep from going completely off the road. This is a minor nitpick, and can easily be fixed by anyone who wants to fix it. > I have also found that the physics in this game are fairly > believable. I had a car rearend my right rear and the right > rear of the car lifted and spun a little. It looked quite realistic > from the cockpit view. I also think the driving physics are > was more accurate than some people would like to think. I think that overall, the system is very good. There are a few parameters that may be off a bit, but the result is still great. ISI had access to extensive telemetry from F1 teams, and used that data in their development. It isn't just a shot in the dark, they've put out a lot of effort to get it right. > I'll wait to hear what Alison has to say about it before giving > further comment though :-) She already said she thinks it's ok :) -- Pat Dotson

Joe62 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Greg Cisko" <no.spam.email.for.me> wrote: > > >That is at 800x600 with like 80% of the graphics maxed or > >close to it and 22 racing opponants. > > So? I play many racing games, including GPL, at 800x600 on my Voodoo2. > The games look better and have better frame-rates. Period.

Well I guess that covers the framerate issue... -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com > Joe McGinn > _____________________ > Radical Entertainment

I think there is too much grip available in the grass and dirt. You can easily modify the friction variable for the different surfaces, and when you do that you get a more realistic reaction. I would hope that as part of a patch, more realistic grip levels for off road surfaces will be present. Remco Moedt wrote:

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> > rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >On Fri, 07 Apr 2000 13:49:10 GMT, [email hidden] (Remco Moedt) wrote: > > > >> > >>I'm not sure about F1-2000 modelling each tyre on it's own > > > >In F1-2000, if you quickly crank the steering to the lock in a slow, > >sharp turn, like a couple of the ones at Monaco, the inside front wheel > >will sometimes lift from the track and coast down slowly while the > >outside front continues around the corner. It will do this without braking. > >If you lightly tap the brakes while the slowly turning wheel is of the ground, > >it will stop. > > > >It definitely models the front wheels independently. > > Ah, ok. But I'm still confused. When I drive with the right tyres on > the dirt, and I brake, I would expect the right front wheel to lock > sooner then the one on the tarmac. But this doesn't happen. > The car also doesn't move to the left, something I would expect. > > So maybe the problem isn't the tyremodelling, but the modelling of the > dirt...Hmm, that's a new one, "I don't like Game X because it doesn't > handle dirt well" <g> (Don't get me wrong, I like driving F1-2000...) > > Remco

Joe62 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Greg Cisko" <no.spam.email.for.me> wrote: > > >FRAPS gave me a solid 20fps in testing > >and 15-16 in a quick race. > > Twenty fps on a P450? That is HORRENDOUS. And that's AFTER tweaking? > Absolutely unforgivable. Especially for such an ugly game.

That is at 800x600 with like 80% of the graphics maxed or close to it and 22 racing opponants. The game is gorgious. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com > > Joe McGinn > _____________________ > Radical Entertainment

Pat Dotson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I think there is too much grip available > in the grass and dirt. You can easily I don't notice that at all. I also thought it good to mention that the extreme slowdown that people with F1RS complained about is gone with this game. I kept expecting to radically slow down when I went off, but was able to keep a handle on it. I now realize what all those people were upset about. New when you go into the kitty litter you slow down quickly but you also have no traction to speak of. Plus the FF wants to suck you farther into it... The FF is not up to GPL standards obviously but it is far better than SCGT or F1RS. I have also found that the physics in this game are fairly believable. I had a car rearend my right rear and the right rear of the car lifted and spun a little. It looked quite realistic from the cockpit view. I also think the driving physics are was more accurate than some people would like to think. I'll wait to hear what Alison has to say about it before giving further comment though :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com > modify the friction variable for the > different surfaces, and when you do that > you get a more realistic reaction. > > I would hope that as part of a patch, > more realistic grip levels for off > road surfaces will be present. > > Remco Moedt wrote: > > > > rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >On Fri, 07 Apr 2000 13:49:10 GMT, [email hidden] (Remco Moedt) wrote: > > > > > >> > > >>I'm not sure about F1-2000 modelling each tyre on it's own > > > > > >In F1-2000, if you quickly crank the steering to the lock in a slow, > > >sharp turn, like a couple of the ones at Monaco, the inside front wheel > > >will sometimes lift from the track and coast down slowly while the > > >outside front continues around the corner. It will do this without braking. > > >If you lightly tap the brakes while the slowly turning wheel is of the ground, > > >it will stop. > > > > > >It definitely models the front wheels independently. > > > > Ah, ok. But I'm still confused. When I drive with the right tyres on > > the dirt, and I brake, I would expect the right front wheel to lock > > sooner then the one on the tarmac. But this doesn't happen. > > The car also doesn't move to the left, something I would expect. > > > > So maybe the problem isn't the tyremodelling, but the modelling of the > > dirt...Hmm, that's a new one, "I don't like Game X because it doesn't > > handle dirt well" <g> (Don't get me wrong, I like driving F1-2000...) > > > > Remco

IF you turn throttle assist and steering assist of you will get heaps of wheelspin and the tendency to follow the racing line dissappears also. Greg Cisko <no.spam.email.for.me> wrote in message news:8cnc43$4bl$[email hidden]... > David Ewing <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > There doesn't seem to be much wheel spin at the start of the race, > > though. When the lights go off, I've just been stomping on the gas,with

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> > no apparent ill effect. Is that everyone else's experience? > > I have been doing a bunch of quick races at Imola starting in the rear. > It seems that the car automatically goes to the left (racing line) at the > start. And there indeed does not appear to be massive wheel spin. > Nothing like N3 where you could almost do donuts. Maybe it is > because the tires are heated already? > > This does bring up one thing that GPL has that all F1 sims should > have. A clutch... I would love to put it in gear, clutch in, 18k rpm > and let the clutch go at the start... I haven't read the manual yet! > After you are just supposed to go fast an it isn;t that complicated > of a thing to understand :-) Anyway, maybe F1 2000 has a clutch > command that I don't know about? > > -- > > Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. > > cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com > > > >

"Greg Cisko" <no.spam.email.for.me> wrote: >FRAPS gave me a solid 20fps in testing >and 15-16 in a quick race. Twenty fps on a P450? That is HORRENDOUS. And that's AFTER tweaking? Absolutely unforgivable. Especially for such an ugly game. Joe McGinn _____________________ Radical Entertainment

Interestingly enough, I have found with my V3000 and 464 mhz Celeron, I get just as good if not a little better framerates in 1024x768 versus 800x600. -- Don Burnette Dburn in N3 and Legends "Greg Cisko" <no.spam.email.for.me> wrote in message news:8cqj82$h3p$[email hidden]... > Joe62 <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Greg Cisko" <no.spam.email.for.me> wrote: > > > > >FRAPS gave me a solid 20fps in testing > > >and 15-16 in a quick race. > > > > Twenty fps on a P450? That is HORRENDOUS. And that's AFTER tweaking? > > Absolutely unforgivable. Especially for such an ugly game. > > That is at 800x600 with like 80% of the graphics maxed or > close to it and 22 racing opponants. The game is gorgious. > > -- > > Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. > > cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com > > > > > Joe McGinn > > _____________________ > > Radical Entertainment > >

"Greg Cisko" <no.spam.email.for.me> wrote: >That is at 800x600 with like 80% of the graphics maxed or >close to it and 22 racing opponants. So? I play many racing games, including GPL, at 800x600 on my Voodoo2. The games look better and have better frame-rates. Period. Joe McGinn _____________________ Radical Entertainment

I'm thinkin' maybe Joe just doesn't like the game... I think it looks great and plays great as well, Greg. Warlock! Joe62 wrote:

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> "Greg Cisko" <no.spam.email.for.me> wrote: > > >That is at 800x600 with like 80% of the graphics maxed or > >close to it and 22 racing opponants. > > So? I play many racing games, including GPL, at 800x600 on my Voodoo2. > The games look better and have better frame-rates. Period. > > Joe McGinn > _____________________ > Radical Entertainment

On Sun, 09 Apr 2000 19:00:48 -0400, Matt & Toni <[email hidden]> wrote: >I'm thinkin' maybe Joe just doesn't like the game... Actually, I think it's not bad as a hardcore sim. I LIKE sims. I'd like to see this one be successful. But that's not going to happen by trying to convince the arcaders that the game is a looker, when it isn't.

"Pat Dotson" <[email hidden]> wrote > I tried what Remco was talking about regarding > putting one wheel in the grass, and trying to > make that wheel lock, while the other is still > moving. What about getting into a spin while totally on the grass, straighten up the wheel and continue ad infinitum to do 360's on a dime. It's "Papyoldenginesque" ;-D -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Pat Dotson <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>If you look in the Terradry.aiw file, you'll >see that the grass is given a friction value >of 0.7 compared to 1.0 on roads. There is >no way that you'll ever get 70% of the cars >turning ability on grass that it has on >pavement :) > >If you just put two wheels off while going >straight, the reaction is believable. There >are times, though, when I go way to hot into >a turn and get two wheels off when I should >be at the apex, yet still keep from going >completely off the road. This is a minor >nitpick, and can easily be fixed by anyone >who wants to fix it.

I think that's the good thing about F1-2000, you can modify a lot. The only thing what really should be included is multiplay practice, all other things can be done by talented users. (or by buying that upcoming 1.5 Ghz PC <g>) Remco

That's right. F12K's open architecture should be a model for all future sims. Everything is editable: the cars, the terrain, the friction, slding, etc. We're going to see a LOT of Mods before this summer. I think this was ISI's intent. The circuits will become more challenging. Basically, as far as I see for now, the only things needed in a patch are: online qualifying, some programmng tweaks to squeeze out a few more FPS, and some menu adjs. Also, better implementation of FF and, perhaps, weather graphics (the wet conditions files are already present). It would also be helpful if users could choose car characeristics other than the default vehicle from within the program menu rather than going into the config files and tinkering. The potential of this sim is staggering. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

On Sun, 09 Apr 2000 20:51:54 GMT, [email hidden] (Joe62) wrote:

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>"Greg Cisko" <no.spam.email.for.me> wrote: > >>That is at 800x600 with like 80% of the graphics maxed or >>close to it and 22 racing opponants. > >So? I play many racing games, including GPL, at 800x600 on my Voodoo2. >The games look better and have better frame-rates. Period.

Actually with my V2 I got even 60fps at times (in testing) when turning off force feedback (fps doubled almost) and mirrors (the same). It looks pretty cool but can be adjusted so it looks pretty crap too. I like it though. Ruud van Gaal MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.marketgraph.nl Art: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery

[email hidden] (Ruud van Gaal) wrote: >Actually with my V2 I got even 60fps at times (in testing) when >turning off force feedback (fps doubled almost) and mirrors (the >same). So we're in agreement then - the grame is poorly optimized. ;-) Joe McGinn _____________________ Radical Entertainment