Re: NFSPU vs. the demo

desmocha <[email hidden]> heeft geschreven in bericht: >Once you've finished "factory driver" and "evolution", the single player >part of the game is done. Finished. Nothing more to do. It becomes >boring, no longer challenging. I know, I said it before. You should try the multiplayer, it's a blast! >Other than the graphics, I'm not sure NFSPU is better than other in the >series. > > > >--desmocha -------- remove aluminium to email

I think you are in a definite minority on NFSPU -- I've never driven a Porsche, but I find the physics model in NFSPU to be a very convincing driving model in general, whereas there was essentially NO physics modeling in the most recent NFS iterations (NOTE: Does my past experience with Beetles count as an acceptable substitute for 914 experience? My Del Sol has a removable top like a 914, so that might count also. <G>). I'd rank NFSPU's physics right up there in the same league as GPL and Viper Racing -- and it far exceeds SCGT. Yes, the tracks seem aimed at the beginner somewhat, but the challenge is there in the form of traffic and the AI competition, which I think does a pretty good job all around. They drive fiercely and honorably most of the time (you can consistently go side-by-side with the AI through a tunnel without fear of getting trashed -- pretty decent, IMO). The tournaments can be very challenging, and the Factory Driver mode is one of the freshest things I've seen in a driving sim/game in a long time. One interesting thing I've noticed about the AI in NFSPU is that one time I accidently bumped and spun an AI car near the start of a race, and he came back and bumped me hard twice later in the race, running me off the road the second time. It was uncanny -- has anybody else noticed this? At any rate, there are a lot of challenges, and while the physics may not be dead-on when it comes to modeling Porsches in general, there are distinct differences between the different models' handling, and I find it to be very convincing. The 914 feels like an entirely different car than the 356s, 550s, and 911s (the 914 feels just like my old Beetles to me, in fact, which I find delightful), which seems right to me. The late-'60s 911S is an absolute delight (my absolute favorite so far), the 944 handles the way I would expect a front-engine, rear-drive sports car to handle (it handles quite a bit like a more tame version of the Viper in Viper Racing, IMO), and the later models (the newer 911 Turbos, the Boxster, the GT1, etc.) all have unique, distinct, convincing physics models to me. Don't let your real-world experiences with a Porsche blind you to the fact that there's a lot of feedback missing from a computer-based sim. All you've got is sight, sound, and maybe a shake from the wheel if you have a FF setup -- that still leaves out quite a bit (like the inner ear's sense of acceleration, for example). Keep reminding yourself that it's NOT a real Porsche, and spend some time with it -- NFSPU is very, very good, IMO, and a lot of others here feel the same. -- JB In article <8e61qm$6uf$[email hidden]>, "Mark Jeangerard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0192_01BFAF15.28CD9940 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > NFSPU was probably the shortest lived demo ever, on my PC. But I

keep = > hoping that it's 'just the demo' because I love the doctor'sbeautiful = > cars. There are two hurdles that I have to get over.=20 > > 1. Sloppy physics aside, the demo car didn't handle like any Porsche = > I've ever driven. But I've never driven anything later than an 86 orso. = > I really think the car from NFS was better. More earthy. Had weightand = > consequence. More realistic physics too. Can anyone with experiencein = > 912, 914, 924, 944, 928, 911 or 930 tell me if it will be at least = > reminiscent enough to have fun, or will the discrepancies be annoying?=20 > > 2. If there's one thing that's starting to bug me more than anything,= > it's wide, constant radius turns. In real life, when you hit a roadthat = > looks like the one in the demo there are a whole variety of turns,arcs, = > cambers. Where are the tight turns for crying out loud? The kind you = > have to honk your horn around so you don't get creamed by the othercar = > trying to share the single lane?=20 > > --=20 > Mark Jeangerard > www.soundchaserweb.com > New Mexico, USA Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

NFSPU was probably the shortest lived demo ever, on my PC. But I keep hoping that it's 'just the demo' because I love the doctor's beautiful cars. There are two hurdles that I have to get over. 1. Sloppy physics aside, the demo car didn't handle like any Porsche I've ever driven. But I've never driven anything later than an 86 or so. I really think the car from NFS was better. More earthy. Had weight and consequence. More realistic physics too. Can anyone with experience in 912, 914, 924, 944, 928, 911 or 930 tell me if it will be at least reminiscent enough to have fun, or will the discrepancies be annoying? 2. If there's one thing that's starting to bug me more than anything, it's wide, constant radius turns. In real life, when you hit a road that looks like the one in the demo there are a whole variety of turns, arcs, cambers. Where are the tight turns for crying out loud? The kind you have to honk your horn around so you don't get creamed by the other car trying to share the single lane? -- Mark Jeangerard www.soundchaserweb.com New Mexico, USA

You should try the multiplayer, it's a blast! -------- remove aluminium to email

> Mark Jeangerard wrote: > > [snip] Where are the tight turns for crying out loud? > The kind you have to honk your horn around so you don't get creamed by > the other car trying to share the single lane? I wonder the same thing. I personally prefer NFS4's tracks which have fast straights and corners. At least you can see what's ahead of you, not like some corners in NFSPU. Another frustrating thing: the program cheats. It will create accidents to block you, make you collide with other cars. It also has cars sitting in the middle of the road, doing nothing but blocking the way. AI cars also will swerve into your way simply to make you run into it. Of course, AI cars can always recover faster than you can. The only thing AI cars do best is start fast. But once you've passed them, they're nowhere to be seen. Once you've finished "factory driver" and "evolution", the single player part of the game is done. Finished. Nothing more to do. It becomes boring, no longer challenging. I know, I said it before. Other than the graphics, I'm not sure NFSPU is better than other in the series. --desmocha

Hmm i dunno about the physics and stuff, but would love to see more realistic roads/tracks

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> Mark Jeangerard wrote: > > NFSPU was probably the shortest lived demo ever, on my PC. But I keep > hoping that it's 'just the demo' because I love the doctor's beautiful > cars. There are two hurdles that I have to get over. > > 1. Sloppy physics aside, the demo car didn't handle like any Porsche > I've ever driven. But I've never driven anything later than an 86 or > so. I really think the car from NFS was better. More earthy. Had > weight and consequence. More realistic physics too. Can anyone with > experience in 912, 914, 924, 944, 928, 911 or 930 tell me if it will > be at least reminiscent enough to have fun, or will the discrepancies > be annoying? > > 2. If there's one thing that's starting to bug me more than anything, > it's wide, constant radius turns. In real life, when you hit a road > that looks like the one in the demo there are a whole variety of > turns, arcs, cambers. Where are the tight turns for crying out loud? > The kind you have to honk your horn around so you don't get creamed by > the other car trying to share the single lane? > > -- > Mark Jeangerard > www.soundchaserweb.com > New Mexico, USA

Mark, Don't do yourself such a great disservice -- NFSPU is definitely NOT "typical NFS fare." The Factory Driver mode alone is worth the $29 cost of admission, and the Evolution Mode is a blast, too. The AI gets better as you advance through the years, and I think I've had some of the best offline races with NFSPU. FYI, my personal favorites include GPL, Viper Racing, DTR, and ICR2. I was into SCGT for a while, but the physics modeling just didn't feel right to me. I find NFS3 and NFS4 to be somewhat amusing as a diversion, but the physics modeling pretty much leaves me cold in both instances. NFSPU reminds me more of the original NFS and NFS2 (which I think felt better from a physics standpoint than NFS3 or NFS4), but it's MUCH improved over even the earler versions. If you liked the original NFS, I think you really need to pick up NFSPU. Just my $0.02. -- JB In article <8ea49m$g7g$[email hidden]>, "Mark Jeangerard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BFB04C.3A9AF4A0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Thanks for your input guys. Sound like typical NFS fare. I'll wait

for =

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> the bargain bin.=20 > > (Wish I could get NFS to run on my machine... )=20 > > --=20 > Mark Jeangerard > www.soundchaserweb.com > New Mexico, USA >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8e6nvs$rmu$[email hidden]... > (NOTE: Does my past > experience with Beetles count as an acceptable substitute for 914 > experience? 914 was pretty much exactly that. Stiffer than the beetle. So, all the same characteristics but more squirrely. :-) -- Mark Jeangerard www.soundchaserweb.com New Mexico, USA

Thanks for your input guys. Sound like typical NFS fare. I'll wait for the bargain bin. (Wish I could get NFS to run on my machine... ) -- Mark Jeangerard www.soundchaserweb.com New Mexico, USA

NFSPU is the closest EA has ever come to releasing a 'sim'. God knows it wasn't F1 2000 or any of the NASCAR titles. -- Scott B. Husted PowerSims.com ICQ# 4395450

Have to agree i do like NFSPU fer a fun break Md "Scott B. Husted" wrote:

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> > NFSPU is the closest EA has ever come to releasing a 'sim'. God knows it > wasn't F1 2000 or any of the NASCAR titles. > > -- > Scott B. Husted > PowerSims.com > ICQ# 4395450

Are you playing on the max difficulty/realism setting? Are you using any driving assists? Are you using a wheel and pedal combo, or a joystick or the keyboard? I'm a fairly decent sim racer, but I don't think there's any way I could get through the entire Evolution Mode in just a few hours, and I don't see how anybody else could, either. Then again, I try to eke out some enjoyment from racing sims/games, so maybe that's the difference -- I'm enjoying the game, and you are apparently unable to appreciate any of the finer points. Or maybe I'm just a hack, and you're a sim racing god . . . or maybe you just hacked your way through it without noticing any of its finer points. Were you by chance using any money cheats to simply repair any damage and buy all the upgrades, BTW? If so, that's kind of defeating the purpose of the competition, IMO. Yes, once you get out front, the AI does fall back pretty badly, but if you start from the back, it's not always a simple thing to get to the front of the pack -- and that's what I call decent AI, at the very least. -- JB In article <MdZO4.190567$[email hidden]>, "desmocha" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > The Factory Driver mode alone is worth the $29 > > cost of admission, > > I don't see how one would want to do the spins again, again, andagain. > > > and the Evolution Mode is a blast, too. The AI gets > > better as you advance through the years, > > Have to disagree. Gone thru Evolution mode twice (due to corruptionof the > first account. Just took me a few hours to finish the second try.) AIis not > better nor worse as you advance, unless you call its cheating goodAI. Pass > them at the start and you'd never see them again. That's good AI?Throwing > the race in Knock Out is good AI? Yeah, letting you run round andround to > finish the race you've already won in the first couple of laps.That's good > AI. > > If all the spinnings and skiddings were signs of good, realistic,simulation > game, then may be NFSPU was a sims. Otherwise, the only good thingabout > NFSPU is its graphics. > > --desmocha > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

> The Factory Driver mode alone is worth the $29 > cost of admission, I don't see how one would want to do the spins again, again, and again. > and the Evolution Mode is a blast, too. The AI gets > better as you advance through the years, Have to disagree. Gone thru Evolution mode twice (due to corruption of the first account. Just took me a few hours to finish the second try.) AI is not better nor worse as you advance, unless you call its cheating good AI. Pass them at the start and you'd never see them again. That's good AI? Throwing the race in Knock Out is good AI? Yeah, letting you run round and round to finish the race you've already won in the first couple of laps. That's good AI. If all the spinnings and skiddings were signs of good, realistic, simulation game, then may be NFSPU was a sims. Otherwise, the only good thing about NFSPU is its graphics. --desmocha

In article <bdmP4.194918$[email hidden]>, "desmocha" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > [snip] > > Why bypass the club races? They're a valid part of the evolutionmode > > Not true! > > The club races are mainly there for you to earn credits if you cannotearn > enough or lose too much in tournaments. You don't need to race asingle club > race to move thru eras. Okay, you've got a point that they're not required, but I find the club races enjoyable, and I have been viewing them as a valid part of the Evolution Mode -- I've not been interested in getting through the eras as much as I have been interested in experiencing the depth of the game across the board. This is just a difference in our approaches, apparently. Plus, I've been having fun building my bank account and buying wrecks to repair and such; I find the simulated "economy" to be a very enjoyable part of the game -- which is a nice additition for me, since I also find the driving model to be very satisfying. For me, all this adds up to an enjoyable sim experience (simulated racing + simulated economy = fun & immersive sim experience for me).

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> > > > Also, what difficulty level were you using, and were you using any > > assists? Makes a big difference, I would imagine. > > The first time is difficult. Done it once, it's piece of cake. > > > 1) Realistic way the car responds when you throw it into a 4-wheel > > drift. > > Looks exciting, but that's one sure way to slow down your car. Don't

drift. True, but when it does happen, the car responds as convincingly as a GP car in GPL. I've done 4-wheel drifts in roadgoing cars before, and the responses in NFSPU seem realistic to me. I don't recommend it as the fast way around a track, necesarily, but it does speak well for the physics engine. > > 2) Realistic slide/spin recovery. > > Your goal is to learn how to avoid that. True, but if/when it does happen, the cars in NFSPU respond very much like a real car would -- more than can be said for any previous NFS game, and many other would-be "sims." GPL definitely gets these kinds of physics modeling details right, and I think NFSPU has also done a good job in its own right. > > > > Yes, once you get out front, the AI does fall back pretty badly, > > but if > > > > you start from the back, it's not always a simple thing to getto > > the > > > > front of the pack -- and that's what I call decent AI, at thevery > > > > least. > > You don't have to start out front. As a matter of fact, most of thetime the > AI starts faster than I can. Even those behind me move up fast. TheAI cars > are slow in cornering and you human know cutting thru dirts andgrasses much > better than they do. Of course, they know different ways to go thruthe > courses before you do. Last night I was finally able to out-accelerate the AI from a standing start, so that proves to me that in this aspect, they don't cheat (i.e., my car's physics seems to be capable of everything their physics model is capable of based on standing starts, anyway). Yes, they do seem to do a horrible job of finding the right line through the corners/dirt, but I think that's just the state of AI programming at this point -- NO sim has REALLY good AI at this point, and NFSPU isn't really any worse than anybody else in this respect. > > [snip] They do seem to brake early and slow down in the turns, like > > they're trying not to break their cars -- which is how I wouldprobably > > drive if it were really my butt hung out on the line, and my Porsche > > that I was still making payments on. The AI in NFSPU may be slow > > somewhat slow, but they are rather "realistic" in their responses. > > I slow down at corners and speed out, like I do in real life. Nohandbrakes > (nor cheats) necessary. Simply doing that can let you beat the AI,provided > you could pick a better line. Guaranteed! All the skidding, driftingthings > slow car down, both in the game and in real world. Stay away from AIcars > 'cuz they'd try to run you off the tracks, swerve into your lane tolet you > collide with them (they can always recover faster than you can)creating > accidents, or simply sitting at the exit of corners. Those seem to bethe > only ways they can beat you and I call that cheating. They will OCCASIONALLY try to run you off the road, but you can also race side-by-side with them with NO contact at all -- which is MUCH better than many, many other sims. They DO recover faster, which is REALLY annoying (THAT is the one way in which I agree that they can and do sometimes "cheat"), and they can be occasionally oblivious to your presence, but at other times, can be like going wheel-to-wheel with a human competitor. So, all in all, I personally think the AI is pretty decent in terms of simulated AI. Thanks for your responses, though -- good to have an enjoyable running dialog here on the RAS newsgroup without it coming down to virtual name- calling! ;-) -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <[email hidden]>, Anssi Lehtinen <[email hidden]> wrote: > [email hidden] wrote: > > > > Are you playing on the max difficulty/realism setting? Are youusing > > any driving assists? Are you using a wheel and pedal combo, or a > > joystick or the keyboard? I'm a fairly decent sim racer, but Idon't > > think there's any way I could get through the entire Evolution Modein > > just a few hours, and I don't see how anybody else could, either.Then > > again, I try to eke out some enjoyment from racing sims/games, somaybe > > that's the difference -- I'm enjoying the game, and you areapparently > > unable to appreciate any of the finer points. Or maybe I'm just a > > hack, and you're a sim racing god . . . or maybe you just hackedyour > > way through it without noticing any of its finer points. > > I tried Evolution the second time, and it has so far taken me a bitless > than five hours real-time. I have four races left in the final (2000 > Turbo) tournament and have won the first two. I got through all the > tournaments in my first try (this time, not when I first started > evolution mode). I didn't do any club races. Why bypass the club races? They're a valid part of the evolution mode -- unless you're just interested in chewing up the game as quickly as possible, that is. Also, what difficulty level were you using, and were you using any assists? Makes a big difference, I would imagine. > And what "finer points"? Should I we stop and admire the scenery? The > game is straightforward arcade fare, setting up the car does prettymuch > nothing, and the tuning parts are too good. The finer points (in my opinion) include: 1) Realistic way the car responds when you throw it into a 4-wheel drift. 2) Realistic slide/spin recovery. 3) Realistic ability to "hang the tail out and do pendulum turns. 4) Realistic way the car responds to trailing-throttle actions. 5) Realistic way the car responds to gearbox braking during downshifts. 6) Convincing sense of vehicle inertial. 7) Realistic 4-point tire modeling. Seems like far more than "straightforward" arcade fare to me. > > Yes, once you get out front, the AI does fall back pretty badly,but if > > you start from the back, it's not always a simple thing to get tothe > > front of the pack -- and that's what I call decent AI, at the very > > least. > > The AI cheats; they get impossibly good starts, and are too fast on > straightaways. Then they brake much too soon for turns and are slow as > molasses in the turns. Or maybe they just run low downforce. The AI gets better starts because they don't listen to the announcer say "go" -- if you time it right and shift right, you can achieve equal starts. They do seem to brake early and slow down in the turns, like they're trying not to break their cars -- which is how I would probably drive if it were really my butt hung out on the line, and my Porsche that I was still making payments on. The AI in NFSPU may be slow somewhat slow, but they are rather "realistic" in their responses. -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

[email hidden] wrote:

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> > Are you playing on the max difficulty/realism setting? Are you using > any driving assists? Are you using a wheel and pedal combo, or a > joystick or the keyboard? I'm a fairly decent sim racer, but I don't > think there's any way I could get through the entire Evolution Mode in > just a few hours, and I don't see how anybody else could, either. Then > again, I try to eke out some enjoyment from racing sims/games, so maybe > that's the difference -- I'm enjoying the game, and you are apparently > unable to appreciate any of the finer points. Or maybe I'm just a > hack, and you're a sim racing god . . . or maybe you just hacked your > way through it without noticing any of its finer points.

I tried Evolution the second time, and it has so far taken me a bit less than five hours real-time. I have four races left in the final (2000 Turbo) tournament and have won the first two. I got through all the tournaments in my first try (this time, not when I first started evolution mode). I didn't do any club races. And what "finer points"? Should I we stop and admire the scenery? The game is straightforward arcade fare, setting up the car does pretty much nothing, and the tuning parts are too good. > Yes, once you get out front, the AI does fall back pretty badly, but if > you start from the back, it's not always a simple thing to get to the > front of the pack -- and that's what I call decent AI, at the very > least. The AI cheats; they get impossibly good starts, and are too fast on straightaways. Then they brake much too soon for turns and are slow as molasses in the turns. Or maybe they just run low downforce.

> [snip] > Why bypass the club races? They're a valid part of the evolution mode Not true! The club races are mainly there for you to earn credits if you cannot earn enough or lose too much in tournaments. You don't need to race a single club race to move thru eras. > > Also, what difficulty level were you using, and were you using any > assists? Makes a big difference, I would imagine. The first time is difficult. Done it once, it's piece of cake. > 1) Realistic way the car responds when you throw it into a 4-wheel > drift. Looks exciting, but that's one sure way to slow down your car. Don't drift. > 2) Realistic slide/spin recovery. Your goal is to learn how to avoid that. > > > Yes, once you get out front, the AI does fall back pretty badly, > but if > > > you start from the back, it's not always a simple thing to get to > the > > > front of the pack -- and that's what I call decent AI, at the very > > > least. You don't have to start out front. As a matter of fact, most of the time the AI starts faster than I can. Even those behind me move up fast. The AI cars are slow in cornering and you human know cutting thru dirts and grasses much better than they do. Of course, they know different ways to go thru the courses before you do. > [snip] They do seem to brake early and slow down in the turns, like > they're trying not to break their cars -- which is how I would probably > drive if it were really my butt hung out on the line, and my Porsche > that I was still making payments on. The AI in NFSPU may be slow > somewhat slow, but they are rather "realistic" in their responses. I slow down at corners and speed out, like I do in real life. No handbrakes (nor cheats) necessary. Simply doing that can let you beat the AI, provided you could pick a better line. Guaranteed! All the skidding, drifting things slow car down, both in the game and in real world. Stay away from AI cars 'cuz they'd try to run you off the tracks, swerve into your lane to let you collide with them (they can always recover faster than you can) creating accidents, or simply sitting at the exit of corners. Those seem to be the only ways they can beat you and I call that cheating. --desmocha

[email hidden] wrote:

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> > I tried Evolution the second time, and it has so far taken me a bit > less > > than five hours real-time. I have four races left in the final (2000 > > Turbo) tournament and have won the first two. I got through all the > > tournaments in my first try (this time, not when I first started > > evolution mode). I didn't do any club races. > > Why bypass the club races? They're a valid part of the evolution mode > -- unless you're just interested in chewing up the game as quickly as > possible, that is.

As I mentioned, I had already gone through the Evolution mode, and this second time was partly an experiment to see how fast I could do it. > Also, what difficulty level were you using, and were you using any > assists? Makes a big difference, I would imagine. I can find a difficulty level anywhere except in those one-off single player races. The races have difficulty levels mentioned, sure, but I can't change them. I didn't use any assists (If you mean ABS/Traction control, I think I wouldn't be any faster using them.).

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> > And what "finer points"? Should I we stop and admire the scenery? The > > game is straightforward arcade fare, setting up the car does pretty > much > > nothing, and the tuning parts are too good. > > The finer points (in my opinion) include: > > 1) Realistic way the car responds when you throw it into a 4-wheel > drift. > 2) Realistic slide/spin recovery. > 3) Realistic ability to "hang the tail out and do pendulum turns. > 4) Realistic way the car responds to trailing-throttle actions. > 5) Realistic way the car responds to gearbox braking during downshifts. > 6) Convincing sense of vehicle inertial. > 7) Realistic 4-point tire modeling. > > Seems like far more than "straightforward" arcade fare to me.

While the game has pretty good physics for an arcade game, it's no GPL. It's extremely hard to "ride" a slide in this game and you can't really powerslide (partly because the tracks are too fast, I presume). I mean, how many powerslides on the exits of turns have you had? Most of my slides are when I go in too hot, or when I lift the throttle when not completely straight.

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> > The AI cheats; they get impossibly good starts, and are too fast on > > straightaways. Then they brake much too soon for turns and are slow as > > molasses in the turns. Or maybe they just run low downforce. > > The AI gets better starts because they don't listen to the announcer > say "go" -- if you time it right and shift right, you can achieve equal > starts.

Either I'm a really bad starter, or this simply isn't true. I use the manual, and know when to slot in first gear (that is, when the game allows you to). I beat the AI in starts only when I clearly have the most pimped out car. Also, I don't think that it's really neat that you can't see the tach before you are already on the move. And please don't reply "You should listen to the engine", because the damn things sound like diesels most of the time.

Anssi Lehtinen wrote: > [email hidden] wrote: > > Also, what difficulty level were you using, and were you using any > > assists? Makes a big difference, I would imagine. > > I can find a difficulty level anywhere except in those one-off single > player races. Obviously, this was supposed to be "I can't find...". Still can't, and yes I just checked the manual, too. -- Anssi

I can't find a way to adjust the difficulty or realism level in Evolution Mode, either -- my mistake. I know you can do so in Quick Race mode, and I *thought* that you were able to choose a difficulty/realism level when you initially started a new player, but I was apparently mistaken (you can do this in DTR, which is what I was thinking of, I believe). Sorry for the confusion! -- JB In article <[email hidden]>, Anssi Lehtinen <[email hidden]> wrote: > Anssi Lehtinen wrote: > > [email hidden] wrote: > > > Also, what difficulty level were you using, and were you using any > > > assists? Makes a big difference, I would imagine. > > > > I can find a difficulty level anywhere except in those one-offsingle

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> > player races. > > Obviously, this was supposed to be "I can't find...". Still can't, and > yes I just checked the manual, too. > > -- > Anssi >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <[email hidden]>, Anssi Lehtinen <[email hidden]> wrote: > [email hidden] wrote: > > > Why bypass the club races? They're a valid part of the evolutionmode > > -- unless you're just interested in chewing up the game as quicklyas > > possible, that is. > > As I mentioned, I had already gone through the Evolution mode, andthis > second time was partly an experiment to see how fast I could do it. AH! I knew this was your second time through, but I didn't understand that you were specifically trying to get through as quickly as possible. Makes more sense now.

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> > Also, what difficulty level were you using, and were you using any > > assists? Makes a big difference, I would imagine. > > I can find a difficulty level anywhere except in those one-off single > player races. The races have difficulty levels mentioned, sure, but I > can't change them. I didn't use any assists (If you mean ABS/Traction > control, I think I wouldn't be any faster using them.).

My bad -- see my other post, as I was mistaken on this point. Sorry! > > Seems like far more than "straightforward" arcade fare to me. > > While the game has pretty good physics for an arcade game, it's noGPL. > It's extremely hard to "ride" a slide in this game and you can'treally > powerslide (partly because the tracks are too fast, I presume). Imean, > how many powerslides on the exits of turns have you had? Most of my > slides are when I go in too hot, or when I lift the throttle when not > completely straight. Actually, I seem to be able to "ride" a slide coming out of a turn pretty well in NFSPU. You're right, it's no GPL -- but these aren't 1967 GP cars, either. I imagine it's quite a bit harder to hold a slide in a Porsche than it is in a 1967 Lotus, though, so this part seems fairly realistic to me. Still bugs me that you acknowledge that the game has a pretty good physics model, then refer to it as an arcade game in the same sentence. I think NFSPU's physics rank right up there behind GPL, and definitely ahead of SCGT (by FAR). Even Viper Racing comes up somewhat short in comparison, in my book. Just my opinion, of course, but I really love the physics modeling in this game (er, sim). > > > > The AI cheats; they get impossibly good starts, and are too faston > > > straightaways. Then they brake much too soon for turns and areslow as > > > molasses in the turns. Or maybe they just run low downforce. > > > > The AI gets better starts because they don't listen to the announcer > > say "go" -- if you time it right and shift right, you can achieveequal > > starts. > > Either I'm a really bad starter, or this simply isn't true. I use the > manual, and know when to slot in first gear (that is, when the game > allows you to). I beat the AI in starts only when I clearly have the > most pimped out car. Also, I don't think that it's really neat thatyou > can't see the tach before you are already on the move. And pleasedon't > reply "You should listen to the engine", because the damn things sound > like diesels most of the time. This statement really bothered me when I read it, because I KNOW I sit there and watch the tach while waiting for the announcer to give the "GO" call. So, I fired up the game to see why I was seeing the tach and you aren't, and I realized that you can't see the tach OVERLAY, but you CAN see the tach on the dash if you use the in-car view. This difference in driving view preferences may explain why we have differing opinions of the game -- I do like the sense of speed you get with the bumper-cam view (which I assume you must prefer), but the in- car view just "feels" right to me, so it's something of a tradeoff. -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > Anssi Lehtinen <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > Seems like far more than "straightforward" arcade fare to me. > > > > While the game has pretty good physics for an arcade game, it's no > GPL. > > It's extremely hard to "ride" a slide in this game and you can't > really > > powerslide (partly because the tracks are too fast, I presume). I > mean, > > how many powerslides on the exits of turns have you had? Most of my > > slides are when I go in too hot, or when I lift the throttle when not > > completely straight. > > Actually, I seem to be able to "ride" a slide coming out of a turn > pretty well in NFSPU. You're right, it's no GPL -- but these aren't > 1967 GP cars, either. I imagine it's quite a bit harder to hold a > slide in a Porsche than it is in a 1967 Lotus, though, so this part > seems fairly realistic to me. Still bugs me that you acknowledge that > the game has a pretty good physics model, then refer to it as an arcade > game in the same sentence.

Ok, maybe arcade is an exaggaration. My main gripe with Porsche is the "no powerslides" thing. When you get the car "balanced" in a slide, you can't really provoke the tail to slide out any more by using the throttle. As long as you stay "within the envelope" (no sliding, which seems to be the fastest way) the game is convincing enough. The other problem is the setup part. I can't seem to get real good response from changing the setups (I only add some downforce to both ends and stiffen the shocks(which seems to be some kind of combined springs/shocks thing)) and I've heard rumours of the setup sliders being reversed (front=back) in some versions of the game. [Major clipping below]

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> > most pimped out car. Also, I don't think that it's really neat that > you > > can't see the tach before you are already on the move. > > This statement really bothered me when I read it, because I KNOW I sit > there and watch the tach while waiting for the announcer to give the > "GO" call. So, I fired up the game to see why I was seeing the tach > and you aren't, and I realized that you can't see the tach OVERLAY, but > you CAN see the tach on the dash if you use the in-car view.

Oh yes, this time, my bad. I only used the in-car view for a few times. I didn't like the way it swayed around with the 356. I guess I'd better at least try some starts in the in-car view. And now, for the Grand Finale, some times achieved by my approach. (Mostly in 911 G1). Just for comparison, not to say "the one with the better times has the "better" opinion". But if your times are significantly faster, I think there's some discussion to be done about my methods. Cote d'Azur 2.20 Schwarzwald 3.11 Normandy 2.30 Zone Industrielle 2.31 Monte Carlo 1 1.06.31 -- Anssi

> > Cote d'Azur 2.20 > Schwarzwald 3.11 > Normandy 2.30 > Zone Industrielle 2.31 > Monte Carlo 1 1.06.31 Were there in multi-laps Quick-races with opponents using same car? My best lap in Monte Carlo 2 is 1:00:78 with GT1, 2-lap Quick race, forward, 7 opponents, same car, manual transmission. 1:02 with Moby Dick, same settings. Will try other tracks and see what I can do. --desmocha

desmocha wrote:

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> > Cote d'Azur 2.20 > > Schwarzwald 3.11 > > Normandy 2.30 > > Zone Industrielle 2.31 > > Monte Carlo 1 1.06.31 > > Were there in multi-laps Quick-races with opponents using same car?

Some were in Rvolution mode, most in quick races with no opponenents. > My best lap in Monte Carlo 2 is 1:00:78 with GT1, 2-lap Quick race, forward, > 7 opponents, same car, manual transmission. 1:02 with Moby Dick, same > settings. I just tried MC2. To show how ridiculously good the tuning parts are, my pimped out 996 Turbo previously had a 56:15 lap record, and I did one that was a bit under 1:00, expert difficulty, 7 opponents in same car, 2 lap, forward. I was past the other cars before I first got to the straightaway. I did a bit under 1:00 in the GT1 with no opponents and Moby Dick (just tried, same settings as with the 996) 1:00:25. GT1 has a top gear that is too long, and Moby Dick one that is too short, even though they don't matter too much on this track. I use the manual, naturally. -- Anssi

I've never really paid any attention to the records until now, and I've never raced with no opponents in Quick Race mode, so I broke out a "stock" GT2 from the menu (I don't "own" one yet) and ran for some record laps tonight (my existing records are even slower than these times): Cote d'Azur 2:42.03 (GT2) Schwarzwald 3:42.90 (GT2) Normandy 2:54.96 (GT2) Zone Industrielle 2:59.65 (911 Turbo) Monte Carlo 1 1:23.40 (GT2) I couldn't beat my own best time from Evolution Mode at the Zone using a GT2, for some reason. Go figure. I also use the manual tranny. Judging by my times compared to yours, you ARE a sim racing god, and I'm the guy Volkswagen is looking for ("Drivers Wanted" -- apparently you RACE, while I just seem to be cruising around like some old fart with my turn signal flashing non-stop <G>). The GT2 kind of "dumbs" things down for me -- it's supernatural grip levels make it feel less lively than the older cars. I guess that's why I like to keep re-running the classic and golden era events, rather than just charging through the tournaments. Just for kicks, grab yourself a 550 Spyder and try running it for a while on all the various tracks. That car in NFSPU reminds me a LOT of the driving experience in GPL -- AND you can carry a slide a lot more realistically with the 550 than with a GT2 or one of the other more modern cars. I like to tweak the 550s suspension as follows: Leave the suspension stiffness slider alone, but adjust the ride height and the shock travel to the left until all three sliders line up; then, move the toe-in to the first tic mark to the right of center; for the downforce, I think I go 60 in the rear and 55 in the front. With this kind of setup, the 550 reminds me a lot of the Coventry, or the GP2 and GP3 cars in GPL. The fact that I've been concentrating on the older eras may be why I'm enjoying the game more than you are. After our discussions here and my runs in the GT2 tonight, I has occured to me that NFSPU seems to have two personalities: The older eras are like "Porsche Legends" (more in- line with "Grand Prix Legends," if you will), while the latest models have something of a "Porsche GT" feel (more along the lines of "Sports Car GT," which I never really warmed up to). Just my own personal opinions, of course. You have made me think a lot about what I like in this game, though, and I guess it comes down to the fact that I just enjoy the physics modeling in the older eras a lot. In fact, I don't even really care if the AI is super-competitive -- I just view it all as a fast drive on an enjoyable stretch of highway, which ALWAYS leaves me grinning and wanting more. For me, I guess NFSPU is the equivalent of a fast, early-morning drive down the Pacific Coast Highway with no cops around and full diplomatic immunity. <G> So go grab a 550 Spyder and spend some time getting used to it, then let me know what you think. It helps if you fancy yourself to be a virtual James Dean,of course, but watch out for those station wagons . . . (Sorry -- poor taste, but I couldn't resist! <G>) -- JB In article <[email hidden]>, Anssi Lehtinen <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> desmocha wrote: > > > Cote d'Azur 2.20 > > > Schwarzwald 3.11 > > > Normandy 2.30 > > > Zone Industrielle 2.31 > > > Monte Carlo 1 1.06.31 > > > > Were there in multi-laps Quick-races with opponents using same car? > > Some were in Rvolution mode, most in quick races with no opponenents. > > > My best lap in Monte Carlo 2 is 1:00:78 with GT1, 2-lap Quick race,

forward, > > 7 opponents, same car, manual transmission. 1:02 with Moby Dick,same > > settings. > > I just tried MC2. To show how ridiculously good the tuning parts are,my > pimped out 996 Turbo previously had a 56:15 lap record, and I did one > that was a bit under 1:00, expert difficulty, 7 opponents in samecar, 2 > lap, forward. I was past the other cars before I first got to the > straightaway. I did a bit under 1:00 in the GT1 with no opponents and > Moby Dick (just tried, same settings as with the 996) 1:00:25. GT1has a

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> top gear that is too long, and Moby Dick one that is too short, even > though they don't matter too much on this track. > > I use the manual, naturally. > > -- > Anssi >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

> I've never really paid any attention to the records until > now, After finishing Factory Driver and Evolution, there's not much more exciting stuff other than trying to get the fastest records :-)

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> and I've > never raced with no opponents in Quick Race mode, so I broke out a > "stock" GT2 from the menu (I don't "own" one yet) and ran for some > record laps > [snip] > Judging by my times compared to yours, you ARE a sim racing god, and > I'm the guy Volkswagen is looking for ("Drivers Wanted" -- apparently > you RACE, while I just seem to be cruising around like some old fart > with my turn signal flashing non-stop <G>).

Anssi is fast. The best I've done so far for Mont 1 is 1:13 with Moby and 2:34 in Zone Indust (could have been better if not slowed down by one AI Moby Dick which swerved into my way at the last corner). All in Quick Race with with 7 opponents. I read one guy finished Autobahn in 2:18. Wonder how he did that. > The GT2 kind of "dumbs" things down for me I think the GT2 is actually a raced version of 95 911 Turbo 3.6. > Just for kicks, grab yourself a 550 Spyder and try running it for a > while on all the various tracks. That car in NFSPU reminds me a LOT of > the driving experience in GPL -- AND you can carry a slide a lot more > realistically with the 550 than with a GT2 or one of the other more > modern cars. > [snip] How do you find 78 911 3.3 Turbo, the one in the last race in Golden Era? That's the one that gives me the most problem. To me, it gets into a spin much more easily than other models. --desmocha

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> > I've never really paid any attention to the records until now, and I've > never raced with no opponents in Quick Race mode, so I broke out a > "stock" GT2 from the menu (I don't "own" one yet) and ran for some > record laps tonight (my existing records are even slower than these > times): > > Cote d'Azur 2:42.03 (GT2) > Schwarzwald 3:42.90 (GT2) > Normandy 2:54.96 (GT2) > Zone Industrielle 2:59.65 (911 Turbo) > Monte Carlo 1 1:23.40 (GT2) > > I couldn't beat my own best time from Evolution Mode at the Zone using > a GT2, for some reason. Go figure.

I have some pretty weird times in the lists too (I tried not to post those), like times that are like 30 seconds faster than what I can do now. e.g. I have something like 1:40 in the Alps, clearly undoable. That might be from the short stint you do in the Factory Driver mode, and then gets bugged into the "real" hi-score list. > The GT2 kind of "dumbs" things down for me -- it's supernatural grip > levels make it feel less lively than the older cars. I guess that's > why I like to keep re-running the classic and golden era events, rather > than just charging through the tournaments. The GT2, in my opinion, just sucks. You can get the 996 ('00) Turbo to grip MUCH better with tuning parts, and the GT2 also lets go INSANELY violently when you go over the grip limit. GT1 and Moby Dick are also faster than the GT2 on pretty much any track.

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> The fact that I've been concentrating on the older eras may be why I'm > enjoying the game more than you are. After our discussions here and my > runs in the GT2 tonight, I has occured to me that NFSPU seems to have > two personalities: The older eras are like "Porsche Legends" (more in- > line with "Grand Prix Legends," if you will), while the latest models > have something of a "Porsche GT" feel (more along the lines of "Sports > Car GT," which I never really warmed up to).

I think the most fun I've had in the game (single-player) is in the '78 Turbo, suitable hopped up. That seems to have a nice power-over grip ratio and also feels like a real car. > So go grab a 550 Spyder and spend some time getting used to it, then > let me know what you think. It helps if you fancy yourself to be a > virtual James Dean,of course, but watch out for those station wagons . I think what you said about the 550 is all true ( I noticed that the few times I drove it in the Evolution mode). Thanks for the tweaking tips. However, I just need to get the fastest car that I can. BTW, in real life I ride a Honda CR500R, and any dirtbiker can tell you how that thing goes :) PS. I DO enjoy the game. There were just some notions here in the group that I couldn't let go unanswered. NFSPU is just behing my all-time favorites: GPL, Gran Turismo, CMR. Multi-player in this game is a hoot (prolly the best multi-player racing I've done, including GPL (where the cars are too fragile). If only my racing buddies practised more, trouncing them is getting embarrassing :)

desmocha wrote: > I read one guy finished Autobahn in 2:18. Wonder how he did that. Now I have to get out there and try to beat that. Screw work :) > How do you find 78 911 3.3 Turbo, the one in the last race in Golden Era? > That's the one that gives me the most problem. To me, it gets into a spin > much more easily than other models. Just mentioned in the other post that this is the car I enjoy the most. It just feels right (plus I put some British racing green, yellow stripes and a "7" on it :). -- Anssi

desmocha wrote: > I read one guy finished Autobahn in 2:18. Wonder how he did that. That is crazy fast. I could do 2:32:28 in my '00 Turbo with no opponents, 2:34:68 with opponents. I was off the gas some, but not a whole lot. -- Anssi

"Anssi Lehtinen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > desmocha wrote: > > I read one guy finished Autobahn in 2:18. Wonder how he did that. > > That is crazy fast. I could do 2:32:28 in my '00 Turbo with no > opponents, 2:34:68 with opponents. I was off the gas some, but not a > whole lot. You could beat mine first: 2:29 GT1. That should be easier ;-) --desmocha

desmocha wrote:

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> "Anssi Lehtinen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > desmocha wrote: > > > I read one guy finished Autobahn in 2:18. Wonder how he did that. > > > > That is crazy fast. I could do 2:32:28 in my '00 Turbo with no > > opponents, 2:34:68 with opponents. I was off the gas some, but not a > > whole lot. > > You could beat mine first: 2:29 GT1. That should be easier ;-)

I got the GT1 to 2:27:25 with opponents, but after that it starts to come down to reflexes when going up and down the ramps. -- Anssi