Re: Geforce 2 GTS or Voodoo5?

GPL is kinds unusual in that the processor is the most determining factor in the performance, not the video card. The Voodoo5 is undoubtedly better than the GeForce since it is Voodoo's next generation card. However, Nvidia also have a next gen card on the way, the Geforce2. The new Geforce card blows away the Voodoo5 in all respects EXCEPT for high-res performance with Anti-Aliasing turned on. It's a tough choice. I for one will wait till they're both released and properly tested beofre I make my decision. Really, if you're going to shell out a ton of money for a new card, it's best to get one that will last you the longest and will be equipped to handle the latest games. No support for hardware T&L may turn out to be a fatal decision for 3DFX. So in short, the Voodoo5 is better than the GeForce but not as good as the GeForce2. ...Colin Harjan Brand <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:j6BP4.5799$[email hidden]... > I currently own a Voodoo3 3000 (overclocked to 183 mhz) and like everytime > the new graphic cars come around I have that eager to buy one. But thistime > I think it's quite hard. > IMHO nVidia's product is superior to 3DFX's, but I'm not sure whether itis > superior in the games I will use it with. First of all I play quite some > Glide games (especially GPL ofcourse and also Falcon 4.0(and in the future > GP3 ), the other games I play now and then are mainly D3D. And as far as > I've understood the Voodoo5 is better at D3D than the Geforce, is thattrue?

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> I don't think much of FSAA, it sure looks good but the frame rate hit is > just far too big and T&L isn't implemented in those games I play (or will > play within half a year). So why would I upgrade at all you might think, > well I can use the extra fill rate quite good especially for the games I > mentioned earlier. > Is there anyone who can make things more clear for me, or who's facing the > same dilemma?

If GPL is on your list...then you probably already know about the in-the-cockpit problems that Geforces and Tnt's have. If you can currently fix the mirrors etc then I don't see a problem with either card. I don't see HUGE improvements from either card. If you have a PII or lower speed cpu, I'd first think about upgrading to somewhere around the 800mhz range before plopping down cash for another vid card. dave henrie Harjan Brand wrote:

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> > I currently own a Voodoo3 3000 (overclocked to 183 mhz) and like every time > the new graphic cars come around I have that eager to buy one. But this time > I think it's quite hard. > IMHO nVidia's product is superior to 3DFX's, but I'm not sure whether it is > superior in the games I will use it with. First of all I play quite some > Glide games (especially GPL ofcourse and also Falcon 4.0(and in the future > GP3 ), the other games I play now and then are mainly D3D. And as far as > I've understood the Voodoo5 is better at D3D than the Geforce, is that true? > I don't think much of FSAA, it sure looks good but the frame rate hit is > just far too big and T&L isn't implemented in those games I play (or will > play within half a year). So why would I upgrade at all you might think, > well I can use the extra fill rate quite good especially for the games I > mentioned earlier. > Is there anyone who can make things more clear for me, or who's facing the > same dilemma?

I currently own a Voodoo3 3000 (overclocked to 183 mhz) and like every time the new graphic cars come around I have that eager to buy one. But this time I think it's quite hard. IMHO nVidia's product is superior to 3DFX's, but I'm not sure whether it is superior in the games I will use it with. First of all I play quite some Glide games (especially GPL ofcourse and also Falcon 4.0(and in the future GP3 ), the other games I play now and then are mainly D3D. And as far as I've understood the Voodoo5 is better at D3D than the Geforce, is that true? I don't think much of FSAA, it sure looks good but the frame rate hit is just far too big and T&L isn't implemented in those games I play (or will play within half a year). So why would I upgrade at all you might think, well I can use the extra fill rate quite good especially for the games I mentioned earlier. Is there anyone who can make things more clear for me, or who's facing the same dilemma?

GPL whit voodoo5 5500 and FSAA.... http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/hardware/features/voodoo5/index4.shtml and no unstable openGL patches... I have already made my next choise... regards, geps. -- Driving per gli appassionati di Grand Prix Legends http://www.multiplayer.it/driving

Looking at the 5500 pictures on the url that gep supplied, I'm a bit disappointed at the banding in the sky, something I've noticed on other sites as well. Still, this seems like the best choice of the new cards. If it performs near to the new geForce, I'll go for it. When I got rid of my last nVidia card it was to get rid of hassles and updated drivers every other day. Yea, eventually I got the games to perform well on the nVidia cards, but every time I loaded a new game, I kept my fingers crossed that it would run on the card, and after about a month of fiddling it usually did. Another thing to keep in mind is that nVidia drivers get slower as they are updated, while in the rest of the industry new drivers mean faster performance. I guess I've turned into a "plug 'n go" type of guy ;-) -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com "Harjan Brand" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:j6BP4.5799$[email hidden]... > I currently own a Voodoo3 3000 (overclocked to 183 mhz) and like every time > the new graphic cars come around I have that eager to buy one. But this time > I think it's quite hard. > IMHO nVidia's product is superior to 3DFX's, but I'm not sure whether it is > superior in the games I will use it with. First of all I play quite some > Glide games (especially GPL ofcourse and also Falcon 4.0(and in the future > GP3 ), the other games I play now and then are mainly D3D. And as far as > I've understood the Voodoo5 is better at D3D than the Geforce, is that true? > I don't think much of FSAA, it sure looks good but the frame rate hit is > just far too big and T&L isn't implemented in those games I play (or will > play within half a year). So why would I upgrade at all you might think, > well I can use the extra fill rate quite good especially for the games I > mentioned earlier. > Is there anyone who can make things more clear for me, or who's facing the > same dilemma? > > > >

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote... > If GPL is on your list...then you probably already know about the > in-the-cockpit problems that Geforces and Tnt's have. If you can > currently fix the mirrors etc then I don't see a problem with either > card. I have no cockpit problems with GPL on my GeForce with Win 2000... --David Cook

In article <8enbs6$u6q$[email hidden]>, "Colin" <[email hidden]> wrote: >GPL is kinds unusual in that the processor is the most determining factor in >the performance, not the video card. (1) I compared my my V3-2000 in F1-2000 at both standard 143MHz and oc'd 166 MHz. No difference. This implies that it too is CPU limited, correct? BTW, this on a C300a @450. (2) GPL maxes out at 36 fps with my V3-2000 (std clock) at 1024 with no cars, but is only about 25 fps from the back of a full field. *Probably* CPU limited. (3) Anandtech says he continues to use first-person-shooters (boo) for benchmarking citing that many racing and flight sims are more CPU than graphics limited. (4) To me, the shots of GPL with FSAA were just not all that much better than without. Admittedly looking at still shots. Some have claimed the improvement is more apparent with motion, which I find counter intuitive. (5) Conclusion, for *me*: It isn't clear that these cards make a big difference right now. I wouldn't spend $200-600. Seems like that would much better be spent on a CPU upgrade. When the sims start using some of the new whiz-bang features, offloading the T/L to the graphics card, etc, maybe worth a revisit. Then they'll be cheaper and faster. Again, if it doesn't benefit, markedly, what I play now, why buy now?

[email hidden] wrote: >(4) To me, the shots of GPL with FSAA were just not all that much better than >without. Admittedly looking at still shots. Some have claimed the >improvement is more apparent with motion, which I find counter intuitive. FSAA will eliminate the shimmering, and thus be easier to the eyes. Will it make GPL a better game, or will it make you faster, compared to a V3-3000 card? Nope... >(5) Conclusion, for *me*: It isn't clear that these cards make a big >difference right now. I wouldn't spend $200-600. Seems like that would much >better be spent on a CPU upgrade. When the sims start using some of the new >whiz-bang features, offloading the T/L to the graphics card, etc, maybe worth >a revisit. Then they'll be cheaper and faster. Again, if it doesn't benefit, >markedly, what I play now, why buy now? Agreed. Remco

> I have no cockpit problems with GPL on my GeForce with Win 2000... But for how long? That's the only thing that bothers me with the NVidia cards (and only with GPL). They may offer an acceptable solution for GPL, but that could change rather quickly due to the beta status of the GPL patch and evolving driver updates. What most concerns me is DX8. If NVidia ships new drivers that are required for new games and you need older drivers to play GPL.... well, it can get a bit messy.

> FSAA will eliminate the shimmering, and thus be easier to the eyes. > Will it make GPL a better game, or will it make you faster, compared > to a V3-3000 card? Nope... Everyone knows that the video card won't make you faster. It's the magical "perfect" setup that will shave seconds off of your time! :)

"Colin" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> GPL is kinds unusual in that the processor is the most determining factor in > the performance, not the video card. > The Voodoo5 is undoubtedly better than the GeForce since it is Voodoo's next > generation card. > However, Nvidia also have a next gen card on the way, the Geforce2. > The new Geforce card blows away the Voodoo5 in all respects EXCEPT for > high-res performance with Anti-Aliasing turned on. > It's a tough choice. I for one will wait till they're both released and > properly tested beofre I make my decision. > Really, if you're going to shell out a ton of money for a new card, it's > best to get one that will last you the longest and will be equipped to > handle the latest games. No support for hardware T&L may turn out to be a > fatal decision for 3DFX. > So in short, the Voodoo5 is better than the GeForce but not as good as the > GeForce2.

I too will probably buy one of the two cards mentoned because my V3 3000 is hitting limits (and I need some new gizmos in the house :). Some of my deciding factors for the Geforce2 vs V5 5500 will probably be: - Mirrors in GPL with Geforce2 - Framerate in GPL with Geforce2 on my PIII450@560. - FSAA with Geforce2 vs V5 in any game - Prize If GPL don't get the same performance with Geforce2 as my V3, then V5 it is. Then again, World Sports Cars will support T&L. A very tough decision. The only comfort is that both cards are some great piece of engineering, so any choice is really a good one. -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

From what i've seen of various benchmarks on the net so far, the V5 seems to be much better at doing FSAA. So if you want AA, maybe it's the V5 for you. Heres a link to a pretty complete article about FSAA on the GeForce 2 GTS and V5 which includes benchmarks - http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/fsaav5gf2/

In message <[email hidden]> David L. Cook <[email hidden]> wrote: > I have no cockpit problems with GPL on my GeForce with Win 2000... Not even with your mirrors? And how do you install GPL on Windows 2000 anyway? Last time I tried, I was greeted with a 'wininet.dll cannot be copied' error, and the game would crash on loading. :-( -- Richard. "It's been a hard day's night, and I been working like a dog."

I set my mirrors to every other frame ("2" I think) in my core.ini. Regarding installation - I'm pretty sure I didn't have to reinstall GPL when I upgraded my Win98 to Win2000. It just worked. --David Cook "Richard Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:54cbd0b849%[email hidden]...

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> In message <[email hidden]> > David L. Cook <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > I have no cockpit problems with GPL on my GeForce with Win 2000... > > Not even with your mirrors? > > And how do you install GPL on Windows 2000 anyway? Last time I tried, I > was greeted with a 'wininet.dll cannot be copied' error, and the game

would

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> crash on loading. :-( > > > -- > Richard. > > "It's been a hard day's night, and I been working like a dog."

Actually, almost *ALL* simulations are more demanding of the CPU and not the video card. And there are about *2* games on the shelf that use T&L at all, and we may see a grand total of 5 by the end of the year, depending on how many Quake3 engined games come out. I've yet to see any sims claim any benefit from the feature, and a mere handful that use 32-bit color for any real advantage. That was last year's "killer feature" that was to be the death of the Voodoo3 vs. the TNT2. A year and a few months later, it's still not that big of a loss by not having it on the V3, IMHO. The thing is, folks with GeForce cards and a 700-800 Mhz processor are turning *off* the GeForce's T&L in the one game that really uses it - Solider Of Fortune - since the CPU can do it faster and they even report it looks better with the CPU doing the work. With the competition in the CPU market, I don't see T&L being that big of a feature, especially not for this generation of cards. And as I stated at the start, almost all sims are CPU limited, not graphics card limited - so T&L would be of little or no benefit anyways. -- Ken's Sig 3.01 "Who is the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi volksy(at)yahoo(dot)com Go #43 and #44! Colin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8enbs6$u6q$[email hidden]... > GPL is kinds unusual in that the processor is the most determining factor in > the performance, not the video card. > The Voodoo5 is undoubtedly better than the GeForce since it is Voodoo's next > generation card. > However, Nvidia also have a next gen card on the way, the Geforce2. > The new Geforce card blows away the Voodoo5 in all respects EXCEPT for > high-res performance with Anti-Aliasing turned on. > It's a tough choice. I for one will wait till they're both released and > properly tested beofre I make my decision. > Really, if you're going to shell out a ton of money for a new card, it's > best to get one that will last you the longest and will be equipped to > handle the latest games. No support for hardware T&L may turn out to be a > fatal decision for 3DFX. > So in short, the Voodoo5 is better than the GeForce but not as good as the > GeForce2. > ...Colin > > Harjan Brand <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:j6BP4.5799$[email hidden]... > > I currently own a Voodoo3 3000 (overclocked to 183 mhz) and like every > time > > the new graphic cars come around I have that eager to buy one. But this > time > > I think it's quite hard. > > IMHO nVidia's product is superior to 3DFX's, but I'm not sure whether it > is > > superior in the games I will use it with. First of all I play quite some > > Glide games (especially GPL ofcourse and also Falcon 4.0(and in the future > > GP3 ), the other games I play now and then are mainly D3D. And as far as > > I've understood the Voodoo5 is better at D3D than the Geforce, is that > true? > > I don't think much of FSAA, it sure looks good but the frame rate hit is > > just far too big and T&L isn't implemented in those games I play (or will > > play within half a year). So why would I upgrade at all you might think, > > well I can use the extra fill rate quite good especially for the games I > > mentioned earlier. > > Is there anyone who can make things more clear for me, or who's facing the > > same dilemma? > >

Well I'm glad I bought a Voodoo 2. My primary card is a Savage 4 32 mb at the moment which handles the D3D stuff pretty well. Seeing as everything seems to be going the D3D route nowadays, I can just upgrade my primary graphics card and keep the V2 in there for GPL. With the inevitable other upgrades GPL will only get faster and smoother, I just won't have the goodies that come with the V5. As always though it is hard to tell which direction graphics cards (or anything else related to computers) will go next. I've heard about a new PC architecture, will we still be able to play our present sims/games with these pc's? Does anyone know of any informative web sites that have information about this? Chris In article <aTLP4.6986$[email hidden]>, "AndrewS" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> I have no cockpit problems with GPL on my GeForce with Win2000... > >But for how long? That's the only thing that bothers me withthe NVidia >cards (and only with GPL). They may offer an acceptablesolution for GPL, >but that could change rather quickly due to the beta status ofthe GPL patch >and evolving driver updates. What most concerns me is DX8. IfNVidia ships >new drivers that are required for new games and you need olderdrivers to >play GPL.... well, it can get a bit messy. > > > > > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

Hmm...Ive only had 3 problems with many sims with my GeForce. DTR didn't have a mouse pointer, but that is now fixed, Midtown Madness had flashy graphics, but the patch fixed it, and with NFS:PU I just needed the new drivers. No problems other than that. Thanks, Alex GTX_SlotCar <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iAHP4.4463$[email hidden]... > Looking at the 5500 pictures on the url that gep supplied, I'm a bit > disappointed at the banding in the sky, something I've noticed on other > sites as well. Still, this seems like the best choice of the new cards.If > it performs near to the new geForce, I'll go for it. When I got rid of my > last nVidia card it was to get rid of hassles and updated drivers every > other day. Yea, eventually I got the games to perform well on the nVidia > cards, but every time I loaded a new game, I kept my fingers crossed thatit > would run on the card, and after about a month of fiddling it usually did. > Another thing to keep in mind is that nVidia drivers get slower as theyare

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> updated, while in the rest of the industry new drivers mean faster > performance. I guess I've turned into a "plug 'n go" type of guy ;-) > > -- > Slot > > Tweaks & Reviews > www.slottweak.com > > > "Harjan Brand" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:j6BP4.5799$[email hidden]... > > I currently own a Voodoo3 3000 (overclocked to 183 mhz) and like every > time > > the new graphic cars come around I have that eager to buy one. But this > time > > I think it's quite hard. > > IMHO nVidia's product is superior to 3DFX's, but I'm not sure whether it > is > > superior in the games I will use it with. First of all I play quite some > > Glide games (especially GPL ofcourse and also Falcon 4.0(and in the

future > > GP3 ), the other games I play now and then are mainly D3D. And as far as > > I've understood the Voodoo5 is better at D3D than the Geforce, is that > true? > > I don't think much of FSAA, it sure looks good but the frame rate hit is > > just far too big and T&L isn't implemented in those games I play (orwill > > play within half a year). So why would I upgrade at all you might think, > > well I can use the extra fill rate quite good especially for the games I > > mentioned earlier. > > Is there anyone who can make things more clear for me, or who's facingthe

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> > same dilemma? > > > > > > > > > >