Re: on line F10 what's right

I am not one of the "sim purists." Yes, I expect nothing less than realistic physics, but I drive in the F-10 view. I can drive in the cockpit view, almost as well as with the arcade view actually at some tracks (I use the cockpit view at the Nurburgring often on the hilly parts), but I just feel I can tell what is going on with the car better with the arcade view. I don't have a force feedback steering wheel that would help me "feel" the car, so F10 seems to work in substitution for that. But I do race with the in-car view on some games. I refuse to use the external view on Grand Prix 2. It feels TOO detached for me. So, in my opinion, it's the old saying "to each his own." Whatever you like, I say go with it! But remember, if you do use the F10 view, check your mirrors often to keep from blocking someone or causing a wreck. :) ----------------------------------------- Dan Belcher Team Racing Unlimited http://simcrash.00game.com

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>having recently starting to race on-line >I was wondering if it is acceptable to use the chase view >rather than the in car view >does it matter? >I understand the mirror issues >but with a good surround sound system i can tell what kind of car is behind >me >and which side >Just throwing this one out to see what others are using >thanks >

I don't think it would matter. It's basically personal choice. I drive in the cockpit in almost all my racing games-GPL, Nascar, ICR, etc. SCGT is an exception. I'm not sure why... Maybe because that's the default when you load the game, and I just got used to it...?<shrug> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Sat 06 May 2000 07:27:11pm, Thomas Kellenstine wrote: >having recently starting to race on-line Rhubarb rhubarb lucky sod rhubarb rhubarb bloody British bloody Telecom rhubarb rhubarb unstable connection rhubarb rhubarb ADSL not before 2003 rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb Rrtshing Fstting Afghing Rick Rastardly rhubarb rhubarb (that's enough moaning - Ed). >I was wondering if it is acceptable to use the chase view >rather than the in car view >does it matter? OK, having not raced online (see moan above!) I can't say for sure, but what I *think* I'd do is this: I'd use F10 for the start. The chances of a collision are so high here, and the consequences of shoving someone out of the race so early are so unpleasant (for the perpetrator!) that I think it's justified. After that, it would be cockpit view all the way, even when overtaking (though I can't be *entirely* sure I wouldn't have a very quick "blip" onto F10 view if it was a risky move). In my (offline) play, I do that in the races (even with Surtees right behind me!), and use the cockpit view exclusively when hotlapping - I just don't feel so involved with F10, and my times are a *lot* slower - more than can be put down to inexperience with the outside view. What I *don't* think would be acceptable would be using any of the "extra" views various people have written (higher viewpoints etc). I accept this is arguable, as long as everybody has *access* to these extra views, but I think there has to be an understanding that everyone's on a level playing field with regard to the limited view. -- David. "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

well..... There is NO RULE that says you HAVE to stay in the cockpit. but.... I can't imagine buying a flight sim and "flying" it from behind the craft. Similary, if we are indeed racing Simulators, we should be at least attempting to simulate the driving experience. But, here are two biggies for your side. A: Framerate...the online experience is improved greatly in sims like GPL if your framerate is at or very near 36fps. If you have one of the Nvidia based vid cards that run better outside the cockpit, then, if that is the only way your system can achieve 36fps, then fine; go to it. B: Framerate. EVeryone benefits if you are at 36fps, a poorly running machine can ruin the effect for everyone in a race. (no here's the real B;) Some of the fastest GPL drivers around use the F10 view and/or a joystick....(shudder!) If you can make better speed using F10 I guess you should go that route. Many younger users have grown up(sic) using the Nintendo view of driving behind your car. so they are probably naturally faster driving in that mode. But for me...As long as I can get an accepatable framerate that doesn't bog down my competiors, I will ALWAYS drive inside the office. I wouldn't care if I was the absolute slowest pig on the track and everyone else was running faster using F10, I just will NOT use it. If my system can't hack it...I'll either upgrade or find another sim... My driving experience comes from being in the car....last I checked, I don't float 10 feet behind my Subaru and pilot it via Radio control. I know anything on a computer will always fall short of a complete sim experience, but I "choose" to stay inside the car. Finally, look at Nascar these days...folks will do anything to go faster...I once again choose not to be one of those. dave henrie Thomas Kellenstine wrote:

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> > having recently starting to race on-line > I was wondering if it is acceptable to use the chase view > rather than the in car view > does it matter? > I understand the mirror issues > but with a good surround sound system i can tell what kind of car is behind > me > and which side > Just throwing this one out to see what others are using > thanks

It's one of those arguments of opinion that will never be resolved. When offline, I would never consider the use of F10. In an online race however, especially a league race, I tend to use it as another way of compensating for the fact that we have a more limited view from the cockpit than in RL. I like to think of it as an additional source of information as to the proximity of cars (Especially at starts). I would personally see it as an additional view to complement the available side views and use it as such. One passing thought. Would you rather be balled out in the VROC catroom (Not a typo there <G>) for taking somebody out of a race, or be accused of not being a genuine sim driver? As I said, it's an argument of opinion. MS "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> well..... > There is NO RULE that says you HAVE to stay in the cockpit. > but.... > I can't imagine buying a flight sim and "flying" it from behind the > craft. Similary, if we are indeed racing Simulators, we should be at > least attempting to simulate the driving experience. > But, here are two biggies for your side. A: Framerate...the online > experience is improved greatly in sims like GPL if your framerate is at > or very near 36fps. If you have one of the Nvidia based vid cards that > run better outside the cockpit, then, if that is the only way your > system can achieve 36fps, then fine; go to it. B: Framerate. EVeryone > benefits if you are at 36fps, a poorly running machine can ruin the > effect for everyone in a race. > (no here's the real B;) Some of the fastest GPL drivers around use > the F10 view and/or a joystick....(shudder!) If you can make better > speed using F10 I guess you should go that route. Many younger users > have grown up(sic) using the Nintendo view of driving behind your car. > so they are probably naturally faster driving in that mode. > > But for me...As long as I can get an accepatable framerate that > doesn't bog down my competiors, I will ALWAYS drive inside the office. > I wouldn't care if I was the absolute slowest pig on the track and > everyone else was running faster using F10, I just will NOT use it. > If my system can't hack it...I'll either upgrade or find another sim... > My driving experience comes from being in the car....last I checked, I > don't float 10 feet behind my Subaru and pilot it via Radio control. I > know anything on a computer will always fall short of a complete sim > experience, but I "choose" to stay inside the car. > > Finally, look at Nascar these days...folks will do anything to go > faster...I once again choose not to be one of those. > dave henrie > > Thomas Kellenstine wrote: > > > > having recently starting to race on-line > > I was wondering if it is acceptable to use the chase view > > rather than the in car view > > does it matter? > > I understand the mirror issues > > but with a good surround sound system i can tell what kind of car is

behind > > me > > and which side > > Just throwing this one out to see what others are using > > thanks

having recently starting to race on-line I was wondering if it is acceptable to use the chase view rather than the in car view does it matter? I understand the mirror issues but with a good surround sound system i can tell what kind of car is behind me and which side Just throwing this one out to see what others are using thanks

Personally when racing online, i'd like to think that I'm on a level playing field with everyone else, and since the arcade view and using a joystick can both be faster (although not in every case) i'd rather people didn't use them. I guess it depends whether you view GPL as a 1967 F1 simulator or as a potentially fun game. Having said all that, it's completely up to you, and no one can force you anyway. :)

Maybe just me, but i find at Monza I can brake what seems to be much later using the F10 view..... Some say F10 is a better choice at the start of a race to give u better situational awareness. Makes sense If you ask me... Md Simon Brown wrote:

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> > Personally when racing online, i'd like to think that I'm on a level playing > field with everyone else, and since the arcade view and using a joystick can > both be faster (although not in every case) i'd rather people didn't use > them. I guess it depends whether you view GPL as a 1967 F1 simulator or as > a potentially fun game. Having said all that, it's completely up to you, > and no one can force you anyway. :)

This is all a matter of opinion, but I find that the sound alone is adequate for telling me when someone is alongside at starts. I also use the glance left/right buttons at starts. It's a pitty Papy never released a 3d sound patch for GPL, as that might have helped in this regard. Maybe there's an in-car only, steering wheel only, no driving aids league out there somewhere for me... :)

Being rather slow at GPL, I often start in the back of the grid. This allows me to see all of the carnage. I have noticed that many times the problem is not avoiding someone that is sideways or what not, but it is someone that is just not shown to you, as in the warp/lag is so high that the car is not drawn for your session. Then like magic they apear in the worst spot! So I have stopped using F10 as it only offers little help. I must say that I had a wonderful time racing a F2 race Saturday night at Watkins Glen that was just too much fun. This was my first online F2 race, and the first time I had ever driven an F2 car at the Glen. I came in last, but that is not that different than all the other races, just was closer to the action in this race. Thanks for all the fun! SLG "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>This is all a matter of opinion, but I find that the sound alone is adequate >for telling me when someone is alongside at starts. I also use the glance >left/right buttons at starts. It's a pitty Papy never released a 3d sound >patch for GPL, as that might have helped in this regard. >Maybe there's an in-car only, steering wheel only, no driving aids league >out there somewhere for me... :) > >

(All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers)