Re: Blue flags in GPL

There are idiots everywhere you look. You just found the ones playing GPL. Please don't think that everyone who races online are like that. I used to race Karts competively, and often someone new would hold up the faster drivers. In almost all cases, the ones complaining were the ones who were the least skilled at overtaking. I'm sure it was the same for you last night. Overtaking slower drivers is an integral part of racing and is a skill to be learned like any other. As the driver being passed you have no more responsibility than to hold your line and not deliberately hold anyone up. It is 100% the job of the following driver to get past you. If they can't then that's their problem. What some people fail to realize is that you can't just fly up behind someone and expect to drive right by. You may be stuck there for a while depending on the track. That's racing... If you see me online I'm "Highlander" and I'll race anybody anytime =) Cheers, ...Colin

try VROC-f2....the f2 guys are significantly more understanding of newbies and the jerk quotient is much lower. Don't think it is only slow guys in the f2 races, there are many very fast guys an women who choose to race there for the atmosphere. f2 is just more fun, it is a smaller community and it doesn't take long to get to know the regulars. d "Remco Moedt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Jim Dombrowski" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >What is the proper protocol for allowing others to pass you when you geta > >blue flag in GPL? I'm by no means very fast in GPL. At least compared to > >some of the regulars I was up against in a race last night on Vroc. Iwas > >in a open race to > >"All" which didn't have any descriptions about ability or anything. > > After the race I saw some of the guys talking about the guy with thegrey > >helmet driving like crap and not getting out of the way fast enough forsome

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> >of the other drivers. Then I realized they were talking about me. Even > >though I thought it was very cruel to treat newer drivers like that or > >anyone for that matter, I didn't make an issue of it with them. I just > >apologized and left. > > Keep in mind that some people online react (much!) stronger as they do > in real life. It's their problem, ignore them. > > But also keep in mind that every games should be played by the rules. > If you don't, people don't like it. This is true with every game. Of > course, the GPL online community are freaks, playing their game while > wearing goggles and an helmet..... <g> > > > Ok , now I have a couple questions. To what extent am I supposed to get > >out of the way for other divers to pass when you see a blue flag? > > During practice, let people pass when not on an hotlap. Even go onto > the grass if needed. When you're on an hotlap, no matter how fast the > other driver is, just continue. Creating a clean lap is a skill in > itself... > > > During a race, do all what's needed to let the car behind you pass > safely. Brake earlier when you see that the car behind is preparing a > pass (not when he is still behind!), or take a corner more wide as > usual and accelerate less. Always be predictable. And do not race > with them.... > > > > Remco >

What is the proper protocol for allowing others to pass you when you get a blue flag in GPL? I'm by no means very fast in GPL. At least compared to some of the regulars I was up against in a race last night on Vroc. I was in a open race to "All" which didn't have any descriptions about ability or anything. After the race I saw some of the guys talking about the guy with the grey helmet driving like crap and not getting out of the way fast enough for some of the other drivers. Then I realized they were talking about me. Even though I thought it was very cruel to treat newer drivers like that or anyone for that matter, I didn't make an issue of it with them. I just apologized and left. Later I thought about it and thought how immature that was to do that to me. I am a compete stranger to them and had never said a word to them except "thanks for the race" right before the ridicule started being thrown at me. I was also shocked that this would come from what seemed to be regulars on Vroc with allot of experience judging them by their times. I would think they would be more understanding of newer drivers being around as much as they are. Even as little as I get on Vroc, I recognized their names. I come from the flight sim world where I am a CO of a 4 year old squadron in Warbirds. Form my experience there, most experienced pilots there, including myself, try to be encouraging and helpful to "newbies" rather then ridicule them like I was last night. I see now that there is a different mentality in some of the GPL community. I wonder how many other newer divers they drove off in the past. Ok , now I have a couple questions. To what extent am I supposed to get out of the way for other divers to pass when you see a blue flag? I know you need to let them pass, but when your in a curvey section of the track where it's not to easy to move out of the way, should I run off the track to let them pass? Or is it acceptable to wait for the straight, where theres room to pull over to let them pass like I was trying to do last night? Obviously with the group I was racing last night it would have been best just to leave the race. Which I would have if I known I wasn't welcome. Also is there any teams that are recruiting newer drivers? I don't race to much online now because I didn't think I was fast enough. So is there a team recruiting that is helpful to new guys and where I could fit in with times like 9:07 at the 'ring or 1:32 at Monza? I won't be available on Mondays or Friday nights because that when we have our Warbirds squad nights. But will try to attend nights as much as possible on other nights. I would also accept the teams members to join our Warbirds squadron if they had any interests there. Jim D. http://www.roughraiders.com

I hear ya brother.... lol ;-) Jan. =---

Jim, Do youself a favor and come race with us in the VROC-F2 club for a while. Extremely civilized bunch and we're all pretty much focused on learning to drive these things. Go to the Vroc.Net homepage and follow the link there for more info. It's a great place to race... Regards, Brett C. Cammack That's Racing! Motorsports Pompano Beach, FL

One important rule whether in sim or real racing is to be predictable. Rule # 2: It is up to the overtaking driver to make a safe pass. Both of these rules apply to real life as well as GPL. To be predictable, you must stay on your line. If you are on the racing line and an overtaking driver comes up from behind, he will know when it is safe to pass. If you change lines to accommodate him, he can never know when it is safe to pass. You can make it easier by not accelerating as hard out of a corner. He will then alter his line to make the pass. A slower driver should never "Get Out Of They Way" so to speak. I would suggest that if you are treated rudely by faster drivers, you find a new group to race with. This is supposed to be fun, and it does have a very steep learning curve....... -- Ken http://BovineRacing.com [email hidden]

Ken McDaniel wrote:

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> > One important rule whether in sim or real racing is to be predictable. Rule > # 2: It is up to the overtaking driver to make a safe pass. Both of these > rules apply to real life as well as GPL. To be predictable, you must stay on > your line. If you are on the racing line and an overtaking driver comes up > from behind, he will know when it is safe to pass. If you change lines to > accommodate him, he can never know when it is safe to pass. You can make it > easier by not accelerating as hard out of a corner. He will then alter his > line to make the pass. A slower driver should never "Get Out Of They Way" so > to speak. I would suggest that if you are treated rudely by faster drivers, > you find a new group to race with. This is supposed to be fun, and it does > have a very steep learning curve....... > > -- > Ken > http://BovineRacing.com > [email hidden]

I can only second this as I couldn't have put it better myself. I know where you're coming from as I've been there myself. Obviously you were racing with people with mentalitis of average 12 year olds (some 12 year olds I know are more sociable, as a matter of fact) who are so proud that they can run 1:28 in Monza that any obstacle that may stand in their way on an otherwise empty track in training is their worst enemy. These are usually the same people who create massacres in turn 1 or before. I actually saw a guy start from about 10th place that took off BEFORE the flag was dropped thus overtaking the whole bunch. This pretty much ruined my whole race. I'm not even sure whether GPL penalizes such behaviour or not. Back to your original question, as I am a master of letting people by myself ;). Think in terms what would you like the guy in front to do if you were behind him. I find three ways possible. Either start braking slightly earlier before slow corners, and do not go for the apex. The guy behind will see that you are not turning in and will take the inside line. Make sure that you slow down to a speed that you feel comfortable with for taking the different line; do not try to do this with the usual speed you use through the corner. If you are on a straight stick to the ideal racing line, and when the guy in the back makes his move (check mirrors), lift of slightly to let him pass, and as soon as you see him get in front of you floor it again. Do not lift while the guy is still right behind you (Schumacher and Coulthard in Spa come to mind). Or, as suggested by Ken, enter a slow corner at your normal speed, go for the apex, but after the apex do not accelerate as much. This will keep you on the inside line and the guy in the back can pass. Do not do this if he is really close, however, as he might hit you from behind. Just be sure to be smooth so that your intentions can be better estimated. I am quite sure you did everything right, though, it is some oter characters on VROC that are to blame. I've also noticed that the WWII communities are amongst the best out there (I am into SDOE). Flanker or Falcon seem attract too many of the same arrogant and conceited types. I wish you plenty of incident free races, and hope to meet you on VROC. -Gregor

"Jim Dombrowski" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>What is the proper protocol for allowing others to pass you when you get a >blue flag in GPL? I'm by no means very fast in GPL. At least compared to >some of the regulars I was up against in a race last night on Vroc. I was >in a open race to >"All" which didn't have any descriptions about ability or anything. > After the race I saw some of the guys talking about the guy with the grey >helmet driving like crap and not getting out of the way fast enough for some >of the other drivers. Then I realized they were talking about me. Even >though I thought it was very cruel to treat newer drivers like that or >anyone for that matter, I didn't make an issue of it with them. I just >apologized and left.

Keep in mind that some people online react (much!) stronger as they do in real life. It's their problem, ignore them. But also keep in mind that every games should be played by the rules. If you don't, people don't like it. This is true with every game. Of course, the GPL online community are freaks, playing their game while wearing goggles and an helmet..... <g> > Ok , now I have a couple questions. To what extent am I supposed to get >out of the way for other divers to pass when you see a blue flag? During practice, let people pass when not on an hotlap. Even go onto the grass if needed. When you're on an hotlap, no matter how fast the other driver is, just continue. Creating a clean lap is a skill in itself... During a race, do all what's needed to let the car behind you pass safely. Brake earlier when you see that the car behind is preparing a pass (not when he is still behind!), or take a corner more wide as usual and accelerate less. Always be predictable. And do not race with them.... Remco

Myself not being a fast driver and also not being very predictable, I tend to slow down and let them pass me if they are obviously faster. I will try to do this ASAP, unless I am not holding them up all the time. At Monza this tends to happen to me a lot at the second lesmo, when it does I just exit more to the right and let them pass. May not be right, but it works for me. I have never had anyone badmouth me online, and I am sure I deserve it! :-) I am a little slower than you at Monza. Still not able to race with other people in my mirrors! They tend to distrack me, or is that distrack? SLG "Jim Dombrowski" <[email hidden]> wrote: >What is the proper protocol for allowing others to pass you when you get a >blue flag in GPL? I'm by no means very fast in GPL. At least compared to >some of the regulars I was up against in a race last night on Vroc. Lots of good stuff removed > Jim D. >http://www.roughraiders.com > > > (All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers)

These people you mentioned, who criticized you in the chat room afterwards, are not representative of the typical vroc driver. Most people are in it for the fun and the challenge. I've seen some really attrocious driving on vroc, but i've never felt moved to complain about it in the least.

Take it from a veteran slowpoke like me, when you're being accused of stuff you can't realy do anything about, there's nothing to do but shrug and move on. Some fast drivers, somewhere along the line, have lost the ability to believe there's people out there who aren't (and sometimes never will be) as fast as them. To those drivers the slow speeds us mere mortals take certain corners at (and perceive to be the limit) are mindbogglingly slow and they see no reason why we shouldn't be going faster. It would seem you ran into some of them and the ill-mannered ones at that. I too have had to endure remarks from the "pro" racers, but have failed to retire from on-line racing however. I just meand I now have certain drivers "earmarked" as "to be ignored in chat". It's a mistake for faster drivers to label slower drivers as "less competitive" or "pushovers". IMO, if they want to beat us, they'd better make damn sure they get to the finnish first. If you legally own GPL and WinVROC, you are entitled to enter open races. Your speed is their problem, so to speak. I am not advocating pissing everyone off by acting as a mobile chicane on purpose, but there's no reason for you not to be there or even leave because you're slower than the other drivers. There's not really such a thing as teams in on-line GPL racing (F1 was kind of an individual sport back in those days), but you might want to check out leagues featuring the lower formulae. Note: I don't subscribe to the belittleling view of having to prove yourself worthy of driving an F1 (if that's what you enjoy doing, go right ahead), it's just my experience there's less "ego" floating around there. Instead of answering your points individually, let me outline my views on the matter, as both doing the overtaking or being overtaken. In practise you will get a blue flag whenever a car is close behind, even if you have just passed it. When I'm on a "hot" lap (relatively speaking, of course), I don't take a blind bit of notice of those. I am not moving over, slowing down or conceding an entry into a corner, no matter who the guy/gal behind is. He/she has run upon a backmarker on a qualifying attempt, tough luck, he/she either aborts his/her lap or finds a way past. On an out or cooling down lap, I will be planning to move over even before I get a blue flag and will even drive off track if nescessary to present a clean passing opportunity. In the race I consider either overtaking or lapping a slower competitor to be my problem. As forcing the issue with an outbraking manouvre is very risky in online racing I won't attempt that unless the subject of my attentions brakes way early in certain places or we're on the final lap of a race. Generally I tend to hang back until the, in the case of a backmarker, other driver moves over or, when it's for position, either makes a mistake or a clear opportunity for a higher corner speed - out accellerating type pass presents itself. Likewise with being overtaken... the responsibility to make a clean pass lies with the overtaking driver (at least until he draws level, from then on it's fifty-fity). When being lapped, most of the time one gets an early warning by the person behind you going a lap down with reference to yourself on the pitboard. I then try to "catch" the faster driver in a convenient spot to let him bye, by either pushing or easing off a little. If that's not possible I just stick to my line untill either an overtaking attempt is made or I arrive at a convinient place. When the lapping driver decides to overtake I never contest the issue, driving to minimize damage to my vehicle. I.e. I will go off track to avoid a collision, but not so far as to run into an obstacle to avoid contact. If I arrive at the convenient point along the track (usually a slow corner linking to a straight) with the lapping car still on my tail I will hold he inside through the corner allowing the faster driver to accellerate past me on the natural exit line for the turn. When being overtaken for position it all depends on the tactical situation at the time. I might decide it's not worth risking an accident to defend the position and act as outlined above. When I decide to make the other driver work for it I will drive defensively and try to keep my challenge alive while leaving the other driver reasonable room if an attempt is made. Hope this helps, Jan. =--- Jim Dombrowski <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SeSS4.86407$[email hidden]... > What is the proper protocol for allowing others to pass you when you get a > blue flag in GPL? <snip>

I hear ya brother.... lol ;-) Jan. =--- Simon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gDUS4.3450$[email hidden]... > These people you mentioned, who criticized you in the chat roomafterwards, > are not representative of the typical vroc driver. Most people are in it > for the fun and the challenge. I've seen some really attrocious drivingon > vroc, but i've never felt moved to complain about it in the least. > >

Hmmmm maybe I should start spellchecking all my posts... not just my replies to BK. ;-)) Jan. =--- Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GUUS4.33737$[email hidden]... <snip> > however. I just meand I now have certain drivers "earmarked" as "to be > ignored in chat". It's a mistake for faster drivers to label slowerdrivers > as "less competitive" or "pushovers". IMO, if they want to beat us, they'd > better make damn sure they get to the finnish first.<snip> ----> OUCH!!

You make a strong case Jim, People do have a habit of ranting a little when people disturb them during a race. The problem is that the faster guys (especially when racing sims) can be overly aggressive and when you come behind a slower car can end up taking him out! The trouble is that there is an incredibly tall ladder to climb to get to the top of GPL, greater than most other sims, that why these problems come about. The main problem with VROC is the labelling of races. They can be vague, unclear or totally invisible, just implied! This is wrong. If the race is "open" it must accept anyone, and in most cases there will be a number of fast cars along with a number of slow cars. I've had problems with other racers, not really verbal comments or anything, on the track I mean, since VROC doesn't accept player having Lag too well, there is always the slight possibility for be catching a back marker from behind or a slowing up too soon for a leader when we hit 9pm around here and my poor only modem can't take the impact of loaded servers and can't compete with cable modems. M advise is not to let it put you off, I never like to get into a "fight" with someone on VROC or GS or something as nothing good ever comes of it. Of course if you made a real blunder by accident maybe a simple sorry will just let the other driver know it wasn't intentional as some fools do from time to time. Most should be ok with that, if they persist however, I'd just advise you to not make the situation any worse, ignore them. The problem with an experienced driver about on any server like this is that if they see a newbie ahead on the track they often can't anticipate what the newbie will do. Most people are just genuinely new to online racing and are just a bit off the pace aren't we all, bar about 5 lads....hhehe) but there is the occasional fool who is there intentionally to ruin a race. Hang around, get toknow people and they will trust you more on any server like VROC, I know from experience wit these things once they know who they are racing against they are more comfortable. Jim Dombrowski <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SeSS4.86407$[email hidden]...

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> What is the proper protocol for allowing others to pass you when you get a > blue flag in GPL? I'm by no means very fast in GPL. At least compared to > some of the regulars I was up against in a race last night on Vroc. I was > in a open race to > "All" which didn't have any descriptions about ability or anything. > After the race I saw some of the guys talking about the guy with the grey > helmet driving like crap and not getting out of the way fast enough for

some > of the other drivers. Then I realized they were talking about me. Even > though I thought it was very cruel to treat newer drivers like that or > anyone for that matter, I didn't make an issue of it with them. I just > apologized and left. > Later I thought about it and thought how immature that was to do that to > me. I am a compete stranger to them and had never said a word to themexcept > "thanks for the race" right before the ridicule started being thrown atme.

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> I was also shocked that this would come from what seemed to be regulars on > Vroc with allot of experience judging them by their times. I would think > they would be more understanding of newer drivers being around as much as > they are. Even as little as I get on Vroc, I recognized their names. > I come from the flight sim world where I am a CO of a 4 year old squadron > in Warbirds. Form my experience there, most experienced pilots there, > including myself, try to be encouraging and helpful to "newbies" rather

then > ridicule them like I was last night. I see now that there is a different > mentality in some of the GPL community. I wonder how many other newerdivers > they drove off in the past. > Ok , now I have a couple questions. To what extent am I supposed to get > out of the way for other divers to pass when you see a blue flag? I knowyou > need to let them pass, but when your in a curvey section of the trackwhere > it's not to easy to move out of the way, should I run off the track to let > them pass? Or is it acceptable to wait for the straight, where theres room > to pull over to let them pass like I was trying to do last night?Obviously > with the group I was racing last night it would have been best just toleave > the race. Which I would have if I known I wasn't welcome. > Also is there any teams that are recruiting newer drivers? I don't raceto > much online now because I didn't think I was fast enough. So is there ateam > recruiting that is helpful to new guys and where I could fit in with times > like 9:07 at the 'ring or 1:32 at Monza? > I won't be available on Mondays or Friday nights because that when wehave > our Warbirds squad nights. But will try to attend nights as much aspossible > on other nights. I would also accept the teams members to join ourWarbirds

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> squadron if they had any interests there. > > Jim D. > http://www.roughraiders.com > > >

Ken McDaniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8fgu2c$qqq$[email hidden]... > One important rule whether in sim or real racing is to be predictable.Rule > # 2: It is up to the overtaking driver to make a safe pass. Both of these > rules apply to real life as well as GPL. To be predictable, you must stayon > your line. If you are on the racing line and an overtaking driver comes up > from behind, he will know when it is safe to pass. If you change lines to > accommodate him, he can never know when it is safe to pass.... Yep- hold your line or else you might swerve into the path of the overtaking car. Villeneuve Sr might still be alive today if Maas had held his line. Same concept applies to sim racing, only without the terrible consequences.

The VROC-F2 crowd are a good group of racers. If their times are inconvenient I'm running an F2 league called the Brain Fade F2 Rookie League (BFFRL). We race on Sunday evenings at 7 PDT. If you are interested email me at [email hidden]. My experience with VROC racers in general is that they are the most polite and considerate group of on-line simmers I have had occasion to deal with. I am sorry your experience wasn't a good one. Dave Bradley Jim Dombrowski wrote: > What is the proper protocol for .......

Thanks to all those who gave me your words of advice and encouragement. I will work on appying that advice on my methods of letting others pass. I probably was trying to get out of the way too much. Seemed at one time I moved to the right, he moved to the right and then same thing when I moved to the left. That must have been why it looked like I was all over the place. Next time I'll hold my line. I didn't expext to get so many responses to my post so soon. You've all showed me that there is a alot of good people in the GPL community and maybe I just ran into some out of the norm. I'll look forward to seeing you all online sometime. I may look into some of those F2 clubs as well. So thanks again, I'm sticking with it. And who knows, maybe I'll be doing the passing someday :-) Jim D.

Don't worry about what any of them say, if you were driving steady and they're not good enough to pass you - whose fault is that? ;-) Blue flag policy is: Qualifying: on your out lap, let people past. if you mess up your fast lap, let people past. on your fast lap, take car of yourself, screw others. race: don't let anyone by unless they make you feel uncomfortable or unless they're lapping you - if they're lapping you you should always let them by, this isn't nascar. In my opinion the safest way to let people by is to not do anything, wait for them to get a good run on you and pull out, when they pull out, lift off. Or if they go to outbrake you brake a little earlier once they've pulled out. Good luck bud :-) -- Thanks, Tim Wheatley. [email hidden] www.timwheatley.co.uk http://legends.sports-gaming.com www.the-mighty-8th.com www.elite-4.com "Jim Dombrowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SeSS4.86407$[email hidden]... > What is the proper protocol for allowing others to pass you when you get a > blue flag in GPL? I'm by no means very fast in GPL. At least compared to > some of the regulars I was up against in a race last night on Vroc. I was > in a open race to > "All" which didn't have any descriptions about ability or anything. > After the race I saw some of the guys talking about the guy with the grey > helmet driving like crap and not getting out of the way fast enough for some > of the other drivers. Then I realized they were talking about me. Even > though I thought it was very cruel to treat newer drivers like that or > anyone for that matter, I didn't make an issue of it with them. I just > apologized and left. > Later I thought about it and thought how immature that was to do that to > me. I am a compete stranger to them and had never said a word to them except > "thanks for the race" right before the ridicule started being thrown at me. > I was also shocked that this would come from what seemed to be regulars on > Vroc with allot of experience judging them by their times. I would think > they would be more understanding of newer drivers being around as much as > they are. Even as little as I get on Vroc, I recognized their names. > I come from the flight sim world where I am a CO of a 4 year old squadron > in Warbirds. Form my experience there, most experienced pilots there, > including myself, try to be encouraging and helpful to "newbies" rather then > ridicule them like I was last night. I see now that there is a different > mentality in some of the GPL community. I wonder how many other newer divers > they drove off in the past. > Ok , now I have a couple questions. To what extent am I supposed to get > out of the way for other divers to pass when you see a blue flag? I know you > need to let them pass, but when your in a curvey section of the track where > it's not to easy to move out of the way, should I run off the track to let > them pass? Or is it acceptable to wait for the straight, where theres room > to pull over to let them pass like I was trying to do last night? Obviously > with the group I was racing last night it would have been best just to leave > the race. Which I would have if I known I wasn't welcome. > Also is there any teams that are recruiting newer drivers? I don't race to > much online now because I didn't think I was fast enough. So is there a team > recruiting that is helpful to new guys and where I could fit in with times > like 9:07 at the 'ring or 1:32 at Monza? > I won't be available on Mondays or Friday nights because that when we have > our Warbirds squad nights. But will try to attend nights as much as possible > on other nights. I would also accept the teams members to join our Warbirds > squadron if they had any interests there. > > Jim D. > http://www.roughraiders.com > > >

Yo! It seems too me as if you did the right thing: nothing. Keep your line. That's what is expected of you. If you feel generous, you can accelerate slowly out of slower corners that leads into a straight, to let the faster guys safely by. On the other hand: If the faster driver isn't skillfull enough to pass you when you are holding your line, I see no reason for you to pull over, except for the fact that if you let the faster guy pass, both of you will be driving faster. Don't give up online racing. The Vroc community will die without a constant stream of newbies. Never mind arrogant hotshots. Some of them are probably enjoying yelling at newbies. By doing so, they are bragging about their own skills in a slightly camouflaged way. Keep on GPL-ing. I'd love to see you online sometime. Jon Andersen

All online GPL racers should be required to read the following site at least once a week before venturing to the virtual track.... http://www.powerup.com.au/~philmak/gplac/rec_driver_beh.htm -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I dont see why if your in a race on the same lap you should let a faster person past. It iant only how fast you drive that wins a race it is how skillfull you are. However if they have lapped you let them past at the soonest convienet point Chuck Kandler <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Jim Dombrowski wrote: > > > Clark never said a word about me > > getting in the way. It seemed he never has a problem passing. > > Surtees never said a word to me either about being in his way. He just > waits for either Parabolica or the Lesmos, whichever comes up first, and > does a '60's F1 version of the "bump & run". Let's his car do the > talking for him!<g> > > > I see online > > racing is allot different. I'm trying and my intentions are good. Maybe

I > > didn't belong in with that class of drivers yet. At least until I'vebecome > > more knowledgeable and predictable to allow them to pass. But I plan to > > apply what I've learned from this lesson and all the replies soonenough.

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> > Don't pay those Morons any mind. You belong out there just as much as > anyone else who bought this sim. And you seem a lot more civilized than > that bunch, too. Just work on being predictable. And above all, Have > Fun!! > > -- > Chuck Kandler #70 > K&S Racing > http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 > > Competitor in the TopGear MGPRS2 league at: > http://topgear.dhs.org/ Come on & join the fun! > > They'll call you names > And spit in your face, > But legends never die. --Gene Simmons

Jim Dombrowski wrote:

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> Even as little as I get on Vroc, I recognized their names. > I come from the flight sim world where I am a CO of a 4 year old squadron > in Warbirds. Form my experience there, most experienced pilots there, > including myself, try to be encouraging and helpful to "newbies" rather then > ridicule them like I was last night. I see now that there is a different > mentality in some of the GPL community. I wonder how many other newer divers > they drove off in the past.

But is it a bomber squadron? ;) GPL drivers may match the fighter pilot mentality better! > Ok , now I have a couple questions. To what extent am I supposed to get > out of the way for other divers to pass when you see a blue flag? Try and stay predictable. If you are slower and out of shape in a corner, be careful to give the other guy passing you room. If you didn't see which side he's passing on, give him room on both sides if you know he's going past (after you blow a corner you can assume he'll be going past ;) > I know you > need to let them pass, but when your in a curvey section of the track where > it's not to easy to move out of the way, should I run off the track to let > them pass? Or is it acceptable to wait for the straight, where theres room > to pull over to let them pass like I was trying to do last night? If they are fast enough to lap you they will be much faster comng off corners behind you, so be wary of trying to dart to the inside to let them by on the normal line (outside). A much faster driver planning a pass will have a very high closure rate on a new driver exiting the corner and he'll probably be inside you passing with horrendous overtake by the time you are ready to try and "help" him by ducking to the inside off the normal line. So just make your normal best exit (or don't accelerate at max if you are a journeyman rather than a newbie) and stay on the line and let him whip around you himself. He's already planned his run on you and is executing it anyway ;) Just like Warbirds, there are some situation awareness (SA) tricks to be aware of. When the "one" guy roars past you online, don't assume that's all there is. Often, online, you will only be shown three cars ahead of you and ONLY ONE behind you. So you won't even have a chance to see the second and third cars that may also be passing. So use your WB 6th sense for someone on your tail :) Also, the last guy passing you might have you pop onto his screen without much warning from the same effect. If you are doing something odd at that moment, it makes it even harder for him to avoid you. Also, the mirrors have some "interesting" blindspots. (Treat a GPL car like flying an F4F ;) Just like in WB, have SA beyond just the current local tactical situation. If the track is small, and/or if the top people on the grid have good times near each other, you can be more than usually wary of the multiple passing situation above, etc. - Matt WB: para JG14

Thanks para, err Matt. Lot's of helpful information there. Hopefully it will help lead me to be able to hold my ground as well as I can confidently say I can in WB's. We're a bomber squadron but we mostly fly fighters ;-) What I think I've been doing is trying too hard to get out of the way. But I was doing so by moving to the least desirable line I was thinking he would want to take. Which was probably a very unpredictable reaction from me in his point of view. I think I may have made too sudden of moves to get out of the way at times. What I'm going to try to do is primarily hold a straighter line and not try as hard to get out of the way so suddenly. Be more predictable. There are many skills in GPL I bet that I'm not even aware of yet. Years into WB's, then some DOA I was still learning and perfecting things in the art of aerial combat. I Still am. I'm sure racing GLP online could be much the same. Racing off line doesn't stress the need to be as skilled at something you would think would be just a simple pass. Clark never said a word about me getting in the way. It seemed he never has a problem passing. I see online racing is allot different. I'm trying and my intentions are good. Maybe I didn't belong in with that class of drivers yet. At least until I've become more knowledgeable and predictable to allow them to pass. But I plan to apply what I've learned from this lesson and all the replies soon enough. See you in the unfriendly sky's but hopefully not so unfriendly track :-) Jim Matthew V. Jessick wrote in message <[email hidden]>... > > >Jim Dombrowski wrote: > >> Even as little as I get on Vroc, I recognized their names. >> I come from the flight sim world where I am a CO of a 4 year oldsquadron >> in Warbirds. Form my experience there, most experienced pilots there, >> including myself, try to be encouraging and helpful to "newbies" ratherthen >> ridicule them like I was last night. I see now that there is a different >> mentality in some of the GPL community. I wonder how many other newerdivers

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>> they drove off in the past. > >But is it a bomber squadron? ;) >GPL drivers may match the fighter pilot mentality better! > > >> Ok , now I have a couple questions. To what extent am I supposed to get >> out of the way for other divers to pass when you see a blue flag? > >Try and stay predictable. If you are slower and out of shape in a corner,

be >careful >to give the other guy passing you room. If you didn't see which side he's >passing >on, give him room on both sides if you know he's going past (after you blowa >corner you can assume he'll be going past ;) > >> I know you >> need to let them pass, but when your in a curvey section of the trackwhere >> it's not to easy to move out of the way, should I run off the track tolet >> them pass? Or is it acceptable to wait for the straight, where theresroom >> to pull over to let them pass like I was trying to do last night? > >If they are fast enough to lap you they will be much faster comng offcorners >behind you, so be wary of trying to dart to the inside to let them by onthe >normal line (outside). A much faster driver planning a pass will have a >very high closure rate on a new driver exiting the corner and he'llprobably

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>be inside you passing with horrendous overtake by the time you are ready >to try and "help" him by ducking to the inside off the normal line. >So just make your normal best exit (or don't accelerate at max if you are >a journeyman rather than a newbie) and stay on the line and let him >whip around you himself. He's already planned his run on you and is >executing it anyway ;) > >Just like Warbirds, there are some situation awareness (SA) tricks to be

aware >of. >When the "one" guy roars past you online, don't assume that's all there is. >Often, online, you will only be shown three cars ahead of you and ONLY ONE >behind you. So you won't even have a chance to see the second and third >cars that may also be passing. So use your WB 6th sense for someone onyour >tail :) >Also, the last guy passing you might have you pop onto his screen withoutmuch >warning from the same effect. If you are doing something odd at thatmoment,

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>it makes it even harder for him to avoid you. Also, the mirrors have some >"interesting" blindspots. (Treat a GPL car like flying an F4F ;) > >Just like in WB, have SA beyond just the current local tactical situation. >If the track is small, and/or if the top people on the grid have good times >near each other, you can be more than usually wary of the multiple >passing situation above, etc. > >- Matt >WB: para >JG14 > >

Jim > What is the proper protocol for allowing others to pass you when you get a > blue flag in GPL? The blue flag in 1967 was not a mandatory flag, but advisory. It is the responsibility of the car lapping you to execute the move. By far the safest thing you can do is stay on your line and only yield (By way of holding off the gas), on the exit to a turn. Doing anything else usually presents problems. If you move off line, it is common for the overtaker to do the same thing at the same time and take you both out. If you brake early for a turn, you may catch the following driver out and end up being rammed from behind. He has no way of knowing that you are going to brake early. > After the race I saw some of the guys talking about the guy with thegrey > helmet driving like crap and not getting out of the way fast enough forsome > of the other drivers. Then I realized they were talking about me. Even > though I thought it was very cruel to treat newer drivers like that or > anyone for that matter, I didn't make an issue of it with them. I just > apologized and left. By far the best policy. There is far too much intolerance shown to drivers of lesser ability. The bottom line is that if you stick to yeilding on corner exits, then any accidents will be the responsibility of the hotshoe. If they cannot wait a few seconds to pass coming out of a corner or use their skills to make a pass elsewhere, we could call their racecraft into question. Being a fast driver doesn't automatically qualify a driver as a good racer. Some people would do well to remember that they were rookies once. We moan and groan in this NG about the poor sales of GPL and the small number of VROC but there are too many people ready to adopt the holier than thou attitude. By far the best thing you can do is to look for a league. There is always a safer bunch of people in league racing and most regulars will run in at least one. MS

Jim Dombrowski wrote: > Clark never said a word about me > getting in the way. It seemed he never has a problem passing. Surtees never said a word to me either about being in his way. He just waits for either Parabolica or the Lesmos, whichever comes up first, and does a '60's F1 version of the "bump & run". Let's his car do the talking for him!<g> > I see online > racing is allot different. I'm trying and my intentions are good. Maybe I > didn't belong in with that class of drivers yet. At least until I've become > more knowledgeable and predictable to allow them to pass. But I plan to > apply what I've learned from this lesson and all the replies soon enough. Don't pay those Morons any mind. You belong out there just as much as anyone else who bought this sim. And you seem a lot more civilized than that bunch, too. Just work on being predictable. And above all, Have Fun!! -- Chuck Kandler #70 K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 Competitor in the TopGear MGPRS2 league at: http://topgear.dhs.org/ Come on & join the fun! They'll call you names And spit in your face, But legends never die. --Gene Simmons

In article <8fke4r$nn6$[email hidden]>, "Kieran Larkin" <[email hidden]> writes: >I dont see why if your in a race on the same lap you should let a faster >person past. It iant only how fast you drive that wins a race it is how >skillfull you are. However if they have lapped you let them past at the >soonest convienet point Sometimes a faster driver is behind you because he spun off somewhere... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.