My response to Gearan's column, You make the call.

A certain media person for a certain newspaper in Massachusetts, not only throws the death of Adam Petty back in our faces, but says that it's a good reason to get rid of the 'bloodbaths' we call auto racing,and that it's not really a sport anyway. Want to read it? Go here, http://www.telegram.com/sports/gearan3.html and then if you feel like commenting to them, send mail to [email hidden] It has come to my attention that some of the auto racing community has gone as far as obtaining the phone #s to the newspaper. If you would like to leave a message or talk to someone at the paper who has published such garbage here are a few of the numbers, 1-800-678-6880 or in MA 1-508-793-9350 Also a Rhode Island # was donated. Not really sure what it might be since the paper is in MA , but I was told that it was on the "Writer's" voice mail. 1-401-766-4467

In article <R14U4.193382$[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>I agree with most of what the writer had to say about NASCAR and it's fans. >For those who live outside of the U.S., you might be unaware as to how >NASCAR is viewed by many Americans. Do you know what the WWF is? It's that >bulls**t, fake, wrestling garbage that unfortunately pollutes the airwaves. >NASCAR and the WWF are often referred to as siblings, or even >interchangeable. Yes, the fans ARE typically hicks and beer worshipers. The >drivers are not athletes. How could a bunch of old, chubby, good ol' boys be >athletes? One of the U.S.'s top sports radio stations is near where I live, >and NASCAR is NEVER mentioned, except to be made fun of when a Billy Bob is >foolish enough to call in. > >Sorry, but NASCAR IS considered a joke to the majority of Americans. The >writer knows that. I know that. The only one's who don't know that, or are >too full of beer to care, are it's crash crazy fans. > >WWF and NASCAR. Happy together. > >David G Fisher

Why do you insist on generalizing? I neither drink, nor wish to see any crashes. I do however, enjoy seing close competition. That includes Nascar, IRL, CART, and others. I can't STAND the WWF, though. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I wrote this replay late, and should have signed my real name. Mr. Fisher had the guts to sign his real name, which is commendable on a newsgroup such as this where everyone has an opinion. I should give him the same courtesy. Dave McCarson (aka LegendNo6) "LegendNo6" <LegendNo6@..yahoo.com> wrote in message news:Fr5U4.365$[email hidden]... > This one got me to do a little research. Are NASCAR drivers old? Average > age of just over 39. BTW, I was using Tony Stewarts real age, not thefact <snip>

David G Fisher wrote in message ... >Do you know what the WWF is? It's that >bulls**t, fake, wrestling garbage that unfortunately pollutes the airwaves. >NASCAR and the WWF are often referred to as siblings, or even >interchangeable. So all the NASCAR stuff I've watched over the years is fixed? Man never landed on the moon either i suppose? In your own words, please tell me why you dont like NASCAR?? Saying you dont like it's fans wont be enough, and will only make you look silly. Oh, and BTW, have you ever watched a NASCAR race - live or on tv? Just so I can further explore your mind, could you tell me which form of motorsport....if any.....you do like?

>I believe it was at Charlotte last year or the year before, he was in the >pits and his crew chief was under the car when they let the jack down, Adam >thought everything was ok and drove away killing his Crew Chief. > If I remember right that was Adams first win? I'm not sure though. > No, it was an ASA race at the Minnesota State Fair. I was about 200 feet away, and watched it all happen : ( He was underneath the car when they dropped the jack, so the car was dropped on top of him. Then Adam took off and ran him over. It all happened in about 2 seconds. Felt like an eternity though.

Well said!!

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>Here is my reply to Mr. Gearan, and I hope to read others. Enjoy! > >-------------------- > >This is in response to the article "Just a Speed Bump" by John Gearan. I do >not object to Mr. Gearan's opinion, and I respect he has the right to >express it. However, the manner in which he expressed it in a public forum >was a poor choice on his part. How can I take the article seriously when it >sound like nothing more than a childish rant that rivals that of my 3 year >old? First, the derogatory tone in which he uses "Good Ol' Boys," as if all >people that watch auto racing are uneducated, back-wood, hicks that only >know tobacco, beer and racin'. Guess what? Here is this Good Ol' Boys' >profile: > >-I am a well educated West Point graduate--and well versed in the physics >that drive race cars. I know what they can do, can't do, and what can >happen in them. >-Myself war-hero as Mr. Gearan referenced? No, but I have been to war and >seen the business end of a bullet. All just so Mr. Gearan has the 1st >Amendment right to publish this childish display. >-A red neck? Maybe by Mr. Gearan's definition. Maybe Mr. Gearan should >attend a NASCAR race, he will find the red neck quotient to be pretty low. >All walks of life tend to show up. >-And, yes, I do race cars, so I have a bias. > >He seems to question if auto racing is a sport. I challenge him to come on >down and go 25 laps with me. I'll give even him a 3 lap head start and will >pass him clean. When he finishes out of breath, his brake leg cramped and >can barely lift his arms the morning after--well there should be no question >that auto racing is a sport that requires physical conditioning. > >Mr. Gearan states "There are more than a few loose lug nuts rolling around >in Kyle Petty's thought processes." The man just lost his child. >Regardless of how Mr. Gearan feels about the circumstances in Adam Petty's >death, have some compassion for his father. This quote is one of two that >are way out of line. > >Mr. Gearan compares auto racing to athletes in other sports. OK, I'll agree >that auto racing is more dangerous than most other sports. But, how may >race drivers are suspended for drugs? How many have killed their >girlfriend? How many have attacked their coach? And I have yet to see a >bench clearing brawl at a race. Occasionally, a car is used as a weapon, >but at least the other drivers have some protection in their cars. I also >remember a hockey stick being used as a weapon here recently--how much >protection did his helmet provide? > >All of the above pales in comparison to the play on words found in the final >paragraph. Let me quote this, in case the wording was forgotten: > >"Two years ago, in a minor-league ASA race, Adam's crew chief crawled under >his car during a pit stop. When the car came down off the jack, Petty ran >over him. The crew chief was killed, a death barely noticed in the cruel >world of auto racing, too petty to make much of a fuss about." > >It wasn't noticed much outside the world of auto racing, but inside the >"cruel world" it had a chilling effect. It still comes up at the tracks I >go to sometimes at drivers meetings. The final senctence contains a play on >words with the "Petty" name, that if it wasn't so cruel, borders on genius. >In one sentence, Mr. Gearan was able to make "Petty" a synonym with "a death >barely noticed in the cruel world of auto racing." Maybe it was not done on >purpose, although I don't see how. In the final sentence, Mr. Gearan loses >any credibility he could have gained with the article. He has shown he is >as cold and heartless as the "sport" he is writing about. > >I only have one hint for Mr. Gearan. His article would only appeal to those >who already hate auto racing. This article is so demeaning to even the >casual race fan, how can he hope to sway anybody's opinion? > >David McCarson >Apex, NC >

On Tue 16 May 2000 01:24:24am, Mike Barlow wrote: > It's from MA, probably Boston(?). that explains it all. San > Fran. >would be the other place that wouldn't need any explanation for it.<snip> Er - eh? Could you explain that for those of us unfamiliar with US regional attitudes? -- David. "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

>But what's this about the crew man underneath A. Petty's car a year back? When Adam was running in the ASA series two years ago, one of his crewmen was underneath the car when the jack was dropped. As any driver is taught, when the jack drops you go. Adam did that and the rest is history. Randy Moonshiners Team Pro Com 60, 20, 1

>It's from MA, Yes, the paper is from Worcester MA. A city about an hour outside of Boston. Growing up as a racefan in MA was tough because you had to deal with the attitudes of people like this. Randy Moonshiners Team Pro Com 60, 20, 1

Ah, well. . . a run-of-the-mill type of response from non-fans. But what's this about the crew man underneath A. Petty's car a year back? --DK "Not just a fan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > A certain media person for a certain newspaper in Massachusetts, not > only throws the death of Adam[snip]

It's from MA, probably Boston(?). that explains it all. San Fran. would be the other place that wouldn't need any explanation for it. Not just a fan wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

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>A certain media person for a certain newspaper in Massachusetts, not >only throws the death of Adam >Petty back in our faces, but says that it's a good reason to get rid of >the 'bloodbaths' we call auto racing,and that >it's not really a sport anyway. Want to read it? Go here, >http://www.telegram.com/sports/gearan3.html >and then if you feel like commenting to >them, send mail to [email hidden] >It has come to my attention that some of the auto racing community has >gone as far as obtaining the phone #s >to the newspaper. If you would like to leave a message or talk to >someone at the paper who has published such >garbage here are a few of the numbers, 1-800-678-6880 or in MA >1-508-793-9350 >Also a Rhode Island # was donated. Not really sure what it might be >since the paper is in MA , but I was told that >it was on the "Writer's" voice mail. 1-401-766-4467 >

I believe it was at Charlotte last year or the year before, he was in the pits and his crew chief was under the car when they let the jack down, Adam thought everything was ok and drove away killing his Crew Chief. If I remember right that was Adams first win? I'm not sure though. "David Karr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8fq36o$ijb$[email hidden]...

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> Ah, well. . . a run-of-the-mill type of response from non-fans. > > But what's this about the crew man underneath A. Petty's car a year back? > > --DK > > > "Not just a fan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > A certain media person for a certain newspaper in Massachusetts, not > > only throws the death of Adam > [snip] > > >

Here is my reply to Mr. Gearan, and I hope to read others. Enjoy! -------------------- This is in response to the article "Just a Speed Bump" by John Gearan. I do not object to Mr. Gearan's opinion, and I respect he has the right to express it. However, the manner in which he expressed it in a public forum was a poor choice on his part. How can I take the article seriously when it sound like nothing more than a childish rant that rivals that of my 3 year old? First, the derogatory tone in which he uses "Good Ol' Boys," as if all people that watch auto racing are uneducated, back-wood, hicks that only know tobacco, beer and racin'. Guess what? Here is this Good Ol' Boys' profile: -I am a well educated West Point graduate--and well versed in the physics that drive race cars. I know what they can do, can't do, and what can happen in them. -Myself war-hero as Mr. Gearan referenced? No, but I have been to war and seen the business end of a bullet. All just so Mr. Gearan has the 1st Amendment right to publish this childish display. -A red neck? Maybe by Mr. Gearan's definition. Maybe Mr. Gearan should attend a NASCAR race, he will find the red neck quotient to be pretty low. All walks of life tend to show up. -And, yes, I do race cars, so I have a bias. He seems to question if auto racing is a sport. I challenge him to come on down and go 25 laps with me. I'll give even him a 3 lap head start and will pass him clean. When he finishes out of breath, his brake leg cramped and can barely lift his arms the morning after--well there should be no question that auto racing is a sport that requires physical conditioning. Mr. Gearan states "There are more than a few loose lug nuts rolling around in Kyle Petty's thought processes." The man just lost his child. Regardless of how Mr. Gearan feels about the circumstances in Adam Petty's death, have some compassion for his father. This quote is one of two that are way out of line. Mr. Gearan compares auto racing to athletes in other sports. OK, I'll agree that auto racing is more dangerous than most other sports. But, how may race drivers are suspended for drugs? How many have killed their girlfriend? How many have attacked their coach? And I have yet to see a bench clearing brawl at a race. Occasionally, a car is used as a weapon, but at least the other drivers have some protection in their cars. I also remember a hockey stick being used as a weapon here recently--how much protection did his helmet provide? All of the above pales in comparison to the play on words found in the final paragraph. Let me quote this, in case the wording was forgotten: "Two years ago, in a minor-league ASA race, Adam's crew chief crawled under his car during a pit stop. When the car came down off the jack, Petty ran over him. The crew chief was killed, a death barely noticed in the cruel world of auto racing, too petty to make much of a fuss about." It wasn't noticed much outside the world of auto racing, but inside the "cruel world" it had a chilling effect. It still comes up at the tracks I go to sometimes at drivers meetings. The final senctence contains a play on words with the "Petty" name, that if it wasn't so cruel, borders on genius. In one sentence, Mr. Gearan was able to make "Petty" a synonym with "a death barely noticed in the cruel world of auto racing." Maybe it was not done on purpose, although I don't see how. In the final sentence, Mr. Gearan loses any credibility he could have gained with the article. He has shown he is as cold and heartless as the "sport" he is writing about. I only have one hint for Mr. Gearan. His article would only appeal to those who already hate auto racing. This article is so demeaning to even the casual race fan, how can he hope to sway anybody's opinion? David McCarson Apex, NC

Bravo! Excellent post. LegendNo6 wrote:

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> > Here is my reply to Mr. Gearan, and I hope to read others. Enjoy! > > -------------------- > > This is in response to the article "Just a Speed Bump" by John Gearan. I do > not object to Mr. Gearan's opinion, and I respect he has the right to > express it. However, the manner in which he expressed it in a public forum > was a poor choice on his part. How can I take the article seriously when it > sound like nothing more than a childish rant that rivals that of my 3 year > old? First, the derogatory tone in which he uses "Good Ol' Boys," as if all > people that watch auto racing are uneducated, back-wood, hicks that only > know tobacco, beer and racin'. Guess what? Here is this Good Ol' Boys' > profile: > > -I am a well educated West Point graduate--and well versed in the physics > that drive race cars. I know what they can do, can't do, and what can > happen in them. > -Myself war-hero as Mr. Gearan referenced? No, but I have been to war and > seen the business end of a bullet. All just so Mr. Gearan has the 1st > Amendment right to publish this childish display. > -A red neck? Maybe by Mr. Gearan's definition. Maybe Mr. Gearan should > attend a NASCAR race, he will find the red neck quotient to be pretty low. > All walks of life tend to show up. > -And, yes, I do race cars, so I have a bias. > > He seems to question if auto racing is a sport. I challenge him to come on > down and go 25 laps with me. I'll give even him a 3 lap head start and will > pass him clean. When he finishes out of breath, his brake leg cramped and > can barely lift his arms the morning after--well there should be no question > that auto racing is a sport that requires physical conditioning. > > Mr. Gearan states "There are more than a few loose lug nuts rolling around > in Kyle Petty's thought processes." The man just lost his child. > Regardless of how Mr. Gearan feels about the circumstances in Adam Petty's > death, have some compassion for his father. This quote is one of two that > are way out of line. > > Mr. Gearan compares auto racing to athletes in other sports. OK, I'll agree > that auto racing is more dangerous than most other sports. But, how may > race drivers are suspended for drugs? How many have killed their > girlfriend? How many have attacked their coach? And I have yet to see a > bench clearing brawl at a race. Occasionally, a car is used as a weapon, > but at least the other drivers have some protection in their cars. I also > remember a hockey stick being used as a weapon here recently--how much > protection did his helmet provide? > > All of the above pales in comparison to the play on words found in the final > paragraph. Let me quote this, in case the wording was forgotten: > > "Two years ago, in a minor-league ASA race, Adam's crew chief crawled under > his car during a pit stop. When the car came down off the jack, Petty ran > over him. The crew chief was killed, a death barely noticed in the cruel > world of auto racing, too petty to make much of a fuss about." > > It wasn't noticed much outside the world of auto racing, but inside the > "cruel world" it had a chilling effect. It still comes up at the tracks I > go to sometimes at drivers meetings. The final senctence contains a play on > words with the "Petty" name, that if it wasn't so cruel, borders on genius. > In one sentence, Mr. Gearan was able to make "Petty" a synonym with "a death > barely noticed in the cruel world of auto racing." Maybe it was not done on > purpose, although I don't see how. In the final sentence, Mr. Gearan loses > any credibility he could have gained with the article. He has shown he is > as cold and heartless as the "sport" he is writing about. > > I only have one hint for Mr. Gearan. His article would only appeal to those > who already hate auto racing. This article is so demeaning to even the > casual race fan, how can he hope to sway anybody's opinion? > > David McCarson > Apex, NC

"Not just a fan" <[email hidden]> wrote <snip> But what does he think about GPL? ;`-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

I guess he's trying to imply that people from those areas are "gay" and therefor can't understand NASCAR. Actually, the people from those areas are likely to be well educated and successful. Not too many hicks live 'round them there parts. Everyone is entitled to their opinions including the writer of that article, r.a.s. readers, and myself. A number of people in this thread feel it's ok to rip that writer apart for his views. Well, then it's certainly ok for me to bluntly express my opinions of NASCAR. I agree with most of what the writer had to say about NASCAR and it's fans. For those who live outside of the U.S., you might be unaware as to how NASCAR is viewed by many Americans. Do you know what the WWF is? It's that bulls**t, fake, wrestling garbage that unfortunately pollutes the airwaves. NASCAR and the WWF are often referred to as siblings, or even interchangeable. Yes, the fans ARE typically hicks and beer worshipers. The drivers are not athletes. How could a bunch of old, chubby, good ol' boys be athletes? One of the U.S.'s top sports radio stations is near where I live, and NASCAR is NEVER mentioned, except to be made fun of when a Billy Bob is foolish enough to call in. Sorry, but NASCAR IS considered a joke to the majority of Americans. The writer knows that. I know that. The only one's who don't know that, or are too full of beer to care, are it's crash crazy fans. WWF and NASCAR. Happy together. David G Fisher "David Buttery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue 16 May 2000 01:24:24am, Mike Barlow wrote: > > > It's from MA, probably Boston(?). that explains it all. San > > Fran. > >would be the other place that wouldn't need any explanation for it. > <snip> > > Er - eh? Could you explain that for those of us unfamiliar with US > regional attitudes? > -- > David. > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > really." > (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > Sorry, but NASCAR IS considered a joke to the majority of Americans. The > writer knows that. I know that. You mean the media manipulated mass? You mean the people who have no real opinion then what "The View", 20/20 or Oprah tells them? If you only knew how I care. I enjoy watching it and racing it. That's enough for me. You enjoy watching/racing stockcars David? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

This one got me to do a little research. Are NASCAR drivers old? Average age of just over 39. BTW, I was using Tony Stewarts real age, not the fact he has been acting like a 3 year old here of late (a joke, TS fans--lighten up). Make the call on that one, I don't know if I would call that old or not--its an average age greater than most other sports. I would say 3 maybe 4 drivers are a little on the chubby side. However, most of them engage in sports outside of racing. Just glancing over their hobbies, it looks like snow skiing and golf seem to be the most popular. I wouldn't want to pick a fight with Mark Martin. And Michael Waltrip ran the Boston Marathon the day after a 500 mile race. I have run marathons and I drive a race car--a lot less than 500 miles, I might add. I wouldn't try it back-to-back. Both take quite a bit out of you. David--if you're up north close to a Skip Barber racing school, treat yourself and give it a try. It's a blast, and you will get a healthy respect for what any race driver goes through for 500 miles. I'll admit it's a little pricey, but you get a lot of fun per $--and learn a thing or two you can apply to your street car. Do most Americans think NASCAR is a joke? Who knows--we can't even get 50% of the country to vote or answer a census, much less a poll about auto racing. However, being that the NASCAR series is made up of the Winston Cup, Busch Grand National, 9 other touring series, and the NASCAR weekly racing series that compete at about 100 tracks all over the country, I would say it is popular with a good portion of the country. There is a big stereotype of the race fan as well. In truth, I have found that race day brings a great cross section of people. Every race is there, every income level--yes, including that backwoods hick who just sold enough moonshine to get his tickets. He'll be sitting by the doctor--and for 4 hours they get along just fine. As far as sport shows go, I gave up on them--seems the only sports in existence are baseball, basketball, and football. You can only tell about a ball going over a fence or in a hoop so many ways. Even when a show does report on racing its "X passed Y on lap Z. And on lap M..." Yawn! Just because you are not mentioned on a top sport show, doesn't mean you are not an athlete. By that measure, weight lifting, swimming, track and field, and rugby would not be considered sports or their participants athletes in most parts of the country! Bottom line is this--every night thousands of games are played with millions of fans watching. We have a choice of what to watch and participate in. I think the real beef with the article is his tone. If this had been my child that was killed, and I read an article so callus and derogatory to both a large segment of people and had personal attacks (look at his comments directed toward Kyle Petty), he and I would discuss it in person and I would certainly expect an apology. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:R14U4.193382$[email hidden]... > I guess he's trying to imply that people from those areas are "gay" and > therefor can't understand NASCAR. Actually, the people from those areasare > likely to be well educated and successful. Not too many hicks live 'round > them there parts. > > Everyone is entitled to their opinions including the writer of thatarticle, > r.a.s. readers, and myself. A number of people in this thread feel it's ok > to rip that writer apart for his views. Well, then it's certainly ok forme > to bluntly express my opinions of NASCAR. > > I agree with most of what the writer had to say about NASCAR and it'sfans. > For those who live outside of the U.S., you might be unaware as to how > NASCAR is viewed by many Americans. Do you know what the WWF is? It's that > bulls**t, fake, wrestling garbage that unfortunately pollutes theairwaves. > NASCAR and the WWF are often referred to as siblings, or even > interchangeable. Yes, the fans ARE typically hicks and beer worshipers.The > drivers are not athletes. How could a bunch of old, chubby, good ol' boysbe > athletes? One of the U.S.'s top sports radio stations is near where Ilive, > and NASCAR is NEVER mentioned, except to be made fun of when a Billy Bobis

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> foolish enough to call in. > > Sorry, but NASCAR IS considered a joke to the majority of Americans. The > writer knows that. I know that. The only one's who don't know that, or are > too full of beer to care, are it's crash crazy fans. > > WWF and NASCAR. Happy together. > > David G Fisher > > > "David Buttery" <[email hidden]> wrote in > message news:[email hidden]... > > On Tue 16 May 2000 01:24:24am, Mike Barlow wrote: > > > > > It's from MA, probably Boston(?). that explains it all. San > > > Fran. > > >would be the other place that wouldn't need any explanation for it. > > <snip> > > > > Er - eh? Could you explain that for those of us unfamiliar with US > > regional attitudes? > > -- > > David. > > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > > really." > > (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh) >

Did anyone notice that the author of this article, specifically targets Nascar and "Good Ol Boys" throughout the article, then conveniently lists CART, IRL, and F1 drivers in his "NASCAR funeral pyre" list. In his zeal to criticize Nascar and rednecks, he even misspells Jeff Krosnoff(CART driver killed at Toronto in 1996), as "Jedd". I am confused at the point of this article. It is pointed at Nascar, but the writer obviously dislikes auto racing in general. He even goes so far as implying that Government should ban it, but that they are swayed by the big money auto industry. What? Does the author not realize the world-wide popularity of auto-racing? Would he have the world ban Formula 1, CART, IRL, superbikes, motocross, sports car racing, sprint cars, endurance racing, drag racing, dirt track racing, karting, rally racing, touring cars, etc.? Yes, some forms of auto racing may be more "dangerous" than others, but all forms of racing have risk involved. And if dangerous sports should be outlawed, what about all the X-treme sports? They are surely as dangerous, with far less safety standards and regulations than any major motorsport. Boxing, hockey, football, hunting, water-skiing, what next? Yes, maybe the dangers and risks are less in those sports, but they do exist. How many college and pro american football players have been fully or partially paralyzed in the last 20 years? This point of this article is not clear, outside of the authors dislike of auto-racing. You can question what constitutes "sport" all day long. That is opinion. Every person, country, and culture have their favorites. What I consider "sport" and what you consider "sport" may be competely different. However, if you have a passion and love for it, nothing I can say or show will dissuade you. And with motorsports you are talking about multi-millions of fans world-wide. Worse yet, the tone of this article is in poor taste. Anyone who follows Nascar at all knows that from all appearances Kyle Petty truly loved his son, and Adam loved his Dad and family. This kid was mature far beyond his years, and he seemed to love auto-racing. It is a sad story whether you like auto-racing or not. Don Chapman [email hidden] Not just a fan <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> A certain media person for a certain newspaper in Massachusetts, not > only throws the death of Adam > Petty back in our faces, but says that it's a good reason to get rid of > the 'bloodbaths' we call auto racing,and that > it's not really a sport anyway. Want to read it? Go here, > http://www.telegram.com/sports/gearan3.html > and then if you feel like commenting to > them, send mail to [email hidden] > It has come to my attention that some of the auto racing community has > gone as far as obtaining the phone #s > to the newspaper. If you would like to leave a message or talk to > someone at the paper who has published such > garbage here are a few of the numbers, 1-800-678-6880 or in MA > 1-508-793-9350 > Also a Rhode Island # was donated. Not really sure what it might be > since the paper is in MA , but I was told that > it was on the "Writer's" voice mail. 1-401-766-4467 >

Well said!!

You aren't exactly quick-witted, are you? --DK

I find it odd that David G. on one hand protests against the stereotyping of people from San Francisco, etc., as being "gay," (I applaud DGF's attitude there, BTW), and then indulges in a vicious round of generalizations of his own about Nascar fans. I'm glad Mr(Ms.?) "LegendNo6" answered DGF's "points" so superbly. I lived in Alabama for most of my young life, and for a long time I indulged in many of these stereotypes (about gays as well as about "rednecks" and Nascar). I then grew up and found those opinions to be vile garbage. --DK PS But I agree w/DGF about WWF! "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:R14U4.193382$[email hidden]... > I guess he's trying to imply that people from those areas are "gay" and > therefor can't understand NASCAR. Actually, the people from those areasare > likely to be well educated and successful. Not too many hicks live 'round > them there parts. > > Everyone is entitled to their opinions including the writer of thatarticle, > r.a.s. readers, and myself. A number of people in this thread feel it's ok > to rip that writer apart for his views. Well, then it's certainly ok forme > to bluntly express my opinions of NASCAR. > > I agree with most of what the writer had to say about NASCAR and it'sfans. > For those who live outside of the U.S., you might be unaware as to how > NASCAR is viewed by many Americans. Do you know what the WWF is? It's that > bulls**t, fake, wrestling garbage that unfortunately pollutes theairwaves. > NASCAR and the WWF are often referred to as siblings, or even > interchangeable. Yes, the fans ARE typically hicks and beer worshipers.The > drivers are not athletes. How could a bunch of old, chubby, good ol' boysbe > athletes? One of the U.S.'s top sports radio stations is near where Ilive, > and NASCAR is NEVER mentioned, except to be made fun of when a Billy Bobis

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> foolish enough to call in. > > Sorry, but NASCAR IS considered a joke to the majority of Americans. The > writer knows that. I know that. The only one's who don't know that, or are > too full of beer to care, are it's crash crazy fans. > > WWF and NASCAR. Happy together. > > David G Fisher > > > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > > really." > > (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh) >

David, REALITY - Try and touch it sometime. Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

Well, for starters, I like to sometimes open up a bottle of Mondavi Fume Blanc ('97, preferably.) I'll toss a little field greens salad with chevre and walnut balsamic dressing while I grill a little salmon with a sour cream and chive cream sauce. I'll sit at the table and read through a couple art and design mags (ID, of course), and maybe look through the Williams-Sonoma catalog for some kitchen stuff I'd like to try. (Crepe pans are mail-order only, but two for $10 is a great deal - they have to be seasoned, though.) My wife likes the dishtowels, and they're a good deal too. Did you know there is a Louise Nevelson stamp issue now? Well, other times we like to look through our gardening books, and decide what to add to the landscaping around our house. I play chess with my friends (whom I beat often) and against the computer (my butt? kicked.) I play around with building architectural spaces in Minicad, then render them in Lightscape, which provides photoreal radiosity rendering (calculated reflected light from all surfaces) just for kicks. I do some of my freelance web work, designing a site for a nuclear engineering company. And you know what? I'll sit on our modern leather couch and study my Nascar 3 manual, trying to figure out how to get a better setup. I'll flip on Speedvision (condolences to those of you who don't get it yet) and hope to see some Nascar stuff. Formula One instead? Fine with me. Rally racing? Cool. It's easy for me to appreciate the esoteric values in racing. Unfortunately, we have idiots like the guy who wrote the article - was he paid for that? Hell, I can talk out my ass for a few bucks too. Maybe they're hiring. It's people like that who don't realize the cars aren't simply factory-fresh with an engine upgrade, and don't realize that it's not just driving around in circles. Individuals like this do not have the capacity to understand or appreciate the engineering endeavors needed to make machines do this, and therefore, do not really have the capacity to understand anything deeper than the surface on pretty much any issue. Or maybe they're just lazy. Well, sorry for the rant. I'm off to eat some roadkill. Andrew PS... My wife and I went to San Francisco last year.... yep, sure enough, everyone is gay and loves Nascar. Maybe it's the rainbow.

Mr. Fisher, Allow me to "bluntly express my opinions" of you. Most of your posts are idiotic. You are an ignorant twit, and a prejudiced snob. It is quite fun to be able to bluntly express my opinions like this. Thank you for leading the way to bluntly expressed opinions! ;-) Dave Ericson "MomoBoy" JDB Racing David G Fisher wrote:

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> > I guess he's trying to imply that people from those areas are "gay" and > therefor can't understand NASCAR. Actually, the people from those areas are > likely to be well educated and successful. Not too many hicks live 'round > them there parts. > > Everyone is entitled to their opinions including the writer of that article, > r.a.s. readers, and myself. A number of people in this thread feel it's ok > to rip that writer apart for his views. Well, then it's certainly ok for me > to bluntly express my opinions of NASCAR. > > I agree with most of what the writer had to say about NASCAR and it's fans. > For those who live outside of the U.S., you might be unaware as to how > NASCAR is viewed by many Americans. Do you know what the WWF is? It's that > bulls**t, fake, wrestling garbage that unfortunately pollutes the airwaves. > NASCAR and the WWF are often referred to as siblings, or even > interchangeable. Yes, the fans ARE typically hicks and beer worshipers. The > drivers are not athletes. How could a bunch of old, chubby, good ol' boys be > athletes? One of the U.S.'s top sports radio stations is near where I live, > and NASCAR is NEVER mentioned, except to be made fun of when a Billy Bob is > foolish enough to call in. > > Sorry, but NASCAR IS considered a joke to the majority of Americans. The > writer knows that. I know that. The only one's who don't know that, or are > too full of beer to care, are it's crash crazy fans. > > WWF and NASCAR. Happy together. > > David G Fisher > > "David Buttery" <[email hidden]> wrote in > message news:[email hidden]... > > On Tue 16 May 2000 01:24:24am, Mike Barlow wrote: > > > > > It's from MA, probably Boston(?). that explains it all. San > > > Fran. > > >would be the other place that wouldn't need any explanation for it. > > <snip> > > > > Er - eh? Could you explain that for those of us unfamiliar with US > > regional attitudes? > > -- > > David. > > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > > really." > > (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

David G Fisher wrote:

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> I agree with most of what the writer had to say about NASCAR and it's fans. > For those who live outside of the U.S., you might be unaware as to how > NASCAR is viewed by many Americans. Do you know what the WWF is? It's that > bulls**t, fake, wrestling garbage that unfortunately pollutes the airwaves. > NASCAR and the WWF are often referred to as siblings, or even > interchangeable. Yes, the fans ARE typically hicks and beer worshipers. The > drivers are not athletes. How could a bunch of old, chubby, good ol' boys be > athletes? One of the U.S.'s top sports radio stations is near where I live, > and NASCAR is NEVER mentioned, except to be made fun of when a Billy Bob is > foolish enough to call in. >

Thanks for making Mike's point very clear indeed. A bunch of blue-blooded, limp-wristed elitists who can't be bothered to come down to the "common man's" level occasionally. My apologies to all the "normal" people from this region of the US. > Sorry, but NASCAR IS considered a joke to the majority of Americans. The > writer knows that. I know that. The only one's who don't know that, or are > too full of beer to care, are it's crash crazy fans. WTF is this? Not in any area I ever lived in at one time or another, which has been over 10 states. This one cannot be substantiated. And my friends & I don't drink either. -- Chuck Kandler #70 K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 Competitor in the TopGear MGPRS2 league at: http://topgear.dhs.org/ Come on & join the fun! They'll call you names And spit in your face, But legends never die. --Gene Simmons

AND too, I cannot stomach the WWF... -- Chuck Kandler #70 K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 Competitor in the TopGear MGPRS2 league at: http://topgear.dhs.org/ Come on & join the fun! They'll call you names And spit in your face, But legends never die. --Gene Simmons

Andrew Turner <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well, for starters, I like to sometimes open up a bottle of Mondavi Fume > Blanc ('97, preferably.) I'll toss a little field greens salad with chevre > and walnut balsamic dressing while I grill a little salmon with a sour > cream and chive cream sauce. > > I'll sit at the table and read through a couple art and design mags (ID, > of course), and maybe look through the Williams-Sonoma catalog for some > kitchen stuff I'd like to try. (Crepe pans are mail-order only, but two > for $10 is a great deal - they have to be seasoned, though.) My wife likes > the dishtowels, and they're a good deal too. > > Did you know there is a Louise Nevelson stamp issue now? > > Well, other times we like to look through our gardening books, and decide > what to add to the landscaping around our house. > > I play chess with my friends (whom I beat often) and against the computer > (my butt? kicked.) > > I play around with building architectural spaces in Minicad, then render > them in Lightscape, which provides photoreal radiosity rendering > (calculated reflected light from all surfaces) just for kicks. > > I do some of my freelance web work, designing a site for a nuclear > engineering company. > > And you know what? > > I'll sit on our modern leather couch and study my Nascar 3 manual, trying > to figure out how to get a better setup. I'll flip on Speedvision > (condolences to those of you who don't get it yet) and hope to see some > Nascar stuff. Formula One instead? Fine with me. Rally racing? Cool. > > It's easy for me to appreciate the esoteric values in racing. > Unfortunately, we have idiots like the guy who wrote the article - was he > paid for that? Hell, I can talk out my ass for a few bucks too. Maybe > they're hiring. > > It's people like that who don't realize the cars aren't simply > factory-fresh with an engine upgrade, and don't realize that it's not just > driving around in circles. Individuals like this do not have the capacity > to understand or appreciate the engineering endeavors needed to make > machines do this, and therefore, do not really have the capacity to > understand anything deeper than the surface on pretty much any issue. Or > maybe they're just lazy. > > Well, sorry for the rant. I'm off to eat some roadkill. > > Andrew > > PS... My wife and I went to San Francisco last year.... yep, sure enough, > everyone is gay and loves Nascar. Maybe it's the rainbow. >

I never knew about the relationship between gays and NASCAR. It makes sense though.

Actually not true. There are a lot of gays in the SF area. If you don't think so, you are wrong baby. David Karr <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8fre2u$noe$[email hidden]... > I find it odd that David G. on one hand protests against the stereotypingof > people from San Francisco, etc., as being "gay," (I applaud DGF's attitude > there, BTW), and then indulges in a vicious round of generalizations ofhis > own about Nascar fans. I'm glad Mr(Ms.?) "LegendNo6" answered DGF's > "points" so superbly. > > I lived in Alabama for most of my young life, and for a long time Iindulged

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> in many of these stereotypes (about gays as well as about "rednecks" and > Nascar). > > I then grew up and found those opinions to be vile garbage. > > --DK > > PS But I agree w/DGF about WWF! > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:R14U4.193382$[email hidden]... > > I guess he's trying to imply that people from those areas are "gay" and > > therefor can't understand NASCAR. Actually, the people from those areas > are > > likely to be well educated and successful. Not too many hicks live

'round > > them there parts. > > > > Everyone is entitled to their opinions including the writer of that > article, > > r.a.s. readers, and myself. A number of people in this thread feel it'sok

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> > to rip that writer apart for his views. Well, then it's certainly ok for > me > > to bluntly express my opinions of NASCAR. > > > > I agree with most of what the writer had to say about NASCAR and it's > fans. > > For those who live outside of the U.S., you might be unaware as to how > > NASCAR is viewed by many Americans. Do you know what the WWF is? It's

that > > bulls**t, fake, wrestling garbage that unfortunately pollutes the > airwaves. > > NASCAR and the WWF are often referred to as siblings, or even > > interchangeable. Yes, the fans ARE typically hicks and beer worshipers. > The > > drivers are not athletes. How could a bunch of old, chubby, good ol'boys

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> be > > athletes? One of the U.S.'s top sports radio stations is near where I > live, > > and NASCAR is NEVER mentioned, except to be made fun of when a Billy Bob > is > > foolish enough to call in. > > > > Sorry, but NASCAR IS considered a joke to the majority of Americans. The > > writer knows that. I know that. The only one's who don't know that, or

are

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> > too full of beer to care, are it's crash crazy fans. > > > > WWF and NASCAR. Happy together. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > > > really." > > > (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh) > > > >

>I never knew about the relationship between gays and NASCAR. It makes sense >though. How do you figure? Racer X Veteran Sim Racer #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

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>Mr. Fisher, > >Allow me to "bluntly express my opinions" of you. Most of your posts are >idiotic. You are an ignorant twit, and a prejudiced snob. >It is quite fun to be able to bluntly express my opinions like this. Thank >you for leading the way to bluntly expressed opinions! ;-) > >Dave Ericson >"MomoBoy" >JDB Racing

Very well said. He also claims the drivers aren't athletes. I'd like to strap his smartass into a WC car at Talladega and see him go 500 miles. He wouldn't last. Mark Martin constantly weight trains to stay in shape so he can drive his race car. BTW, for Mr. Fisher, the WWF hasn't claimed to be real for quite some time. Also, you have no idea what those guys go through, so shut the hell up. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

No, it is you who are wrong. Wrong, because the basic point simply whizzed over yer lil' head. Of COURSE there are a lot of gay people in SF--especially 'round Castro. The stereotyping occurs when one makes the jump to uncritically attributing moral and aesthetic qualities to that sexual orientation. duh, DK "Todd Sorensen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GJiU4.90382$[email hidden]... > Actually not true. There are a lot of gays in the SF area. If you don't > think so, you are wrong baby.

Yes, let's all give DGF a little more attention. It's all he wants, I fear. guilty, myself, DK > > Why do you insist on generalizing? I neither drink, nor wish to see any > crashes. I do however, enjoy seing close competition. That includesNascar,

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> IRL, CART, and others. I can't STAND the WWF, though. > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

You aren't exactly quick-witted, are you? --DK "Todd Sorensen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YFiU4.90366$[email hidden]... > > I never knew about the relationship between gays and NASCAR. It makessense > though. > >

Let me guess, you're a gay NASCAR fan?

But really, Nascar's pretty campy as it is, eh? ;) --DK

Todd Sorensen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YFiU4.90366$[email hidden]... > > > I never knew about the relationship between gays and NASCAR. It makessense > though. >Let me guess, you're a gay NASCAR fan?

On Wed, 17 May 2000 20:56:42 +0100, "Ace" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Let me guess, you're a gay NASCAR fan? You mean they have their own touring series in Nascar? I never knew that. I wonder what the paint jobs look like... Just imagine what the chatter on the scanner must be like, too. <g> Regards, Brett C. Cammack That's Racing! Motorsports Pompano Beach, FL

But really, Nascar's pretty campy as it is, eh? ;) --DK "Brett C. Cammack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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> > You mean they have their own touring series in Nascar? I never knew > that. I wonder what the paint jobs look like... Just imagine what the > chatter on the scanner must be like, too. <g> > > Regards, > Brett C. Cammack > That's Racing! Motorsports > Pompano Beach, FL

Ahh Dave you make some good points about how NASCAR can be, but had it been a sports car race or drag race or anything with wheels he would have written the same thing. It's just that NASCAR has become know has a southern sport. When in fact it may sanction more weekly tracks across the US than any other sanction, I may be on a shaky limb here, than any other world wide. NASCAR did start in the south but here in Conn, we have 3 NASCAR sanctioned race tracks. The 4th track in Conn. is Lime Rock Park. Winston Cup racing has just been tagged with the name NASCAR because many see it on TV and don't know the extent of the word NASCAR. Visit the web site and check the tracks in it's regional series. Not defending anyone, just saying he would do it to any form of the sport. David G Fisher wrote:

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> I guess he's trying to imply that people from those areas are "gay" and > therefor can't understand NASCAR. Actually, the people from those areas are > likely to be well educated and successful. Not too many hicks live 'round > them there parts. > > Everyone is entitled to their opinions including the writer of that article, > r.a.s. readers, and myself. A number of people in this thread feel it's ok > to rip that writer apart for his views. Well, then it's certainly ok for me > to bluntly express my opinions of NASCAR. > > I agree with most of what the writer had to say about NASCAR and it's fans. > For those who live outside of the U.S., you might be unaware as to how > NASCAR is viewed by many Americans. Do you know what the WWF is? It's that > bulls**t, fake, wrestling garbage that unfortunately pollutes the airwaves. > NASCAR and the WWF are often referred to as siblings, or even > interchangeable. Yes, the fans ARE typically hicks and beer worshipers. The > drivers are not athletes. How could a bunch of old, chubby, good ol' boys be > athletes? One of the U.S.'s top sports radio stations is near where I live, > and NASCAR is NEVER mentioned, except to be made fun of when a Billy Bob is > foolish enough to call in. > > Sorry, but NASCAR IS considered a joke to the majority of Americans. The > writer knows that. I know that. The only one's who don't know that, or are > too full of beer to care, are it's crash crazy fans. > > WWF and NASCAR. Happy together. > > David G Fisher > > "David Buttery" <[email hidden]> wrote in > message news:[email hidden]... > > On Tue 16 May 2000 01:24:24am, Mike Barlow wrote: > > > > > It's from MA, probably Boston(?). that explains it all. San > > > Fran. > > >would be the other place that wouldn't need any explanation for it. > > <snip> > > > > Er - eh? Could you explain that for those of us unfamiliar with US > > regional attitudes? > > -- > > David. > > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > > really." > > (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

On Wed 31 May 2000 10:55:34pm, Bob Curtin wrote:

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>I live in Massachusetts, and it is absolute hell for anyone who >champions self-reliance, freedom from "big brother" politics and >relief from the politically correct morons who make up nearly 80% of >this shit-hole's population. It is a land of rubber-stamp liberals >who have no conception of an original thought, never mind having >actually experienced one. > >Gearan is just another fool in the land of "Willy the Wagger's" >summer vacation spot amongst the media droolers. Believe me, Gearan >isn't worth the effort to try to change his attitude. That >presupposes he'd exercise a process of thought, which he won't.

Thanks for the info. It's a shame the word "liberal" has been hijacked in the US - I'm a liberal, and proud of it. Gawd 'elp us if Dubya gets in... -- David. "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

I live in Massachusetts, and it is absolute hell for anyone who champions self-reliance, freedom from "big brother" politics and relief from the politically correct morons who make up nearly 80% of this shit-hole's population. It is a land of rubber-stamp liberals who have no conception of an original thought, never mind having actually experienced one. Gearan is just another fool in the land of "Willy the Wagger's" summer vacation spot amongst the media droolers. Believe me, Gearan isn't worth the effort to try to change his attitude. That presupposes he'd exercise a process of thought, which he won't. David Buttery wrote:

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> Er - eh? Could you explain that for those of us unfamiliar with US > regional attitudes? > -- > David. > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > really." > (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"