Re: GPL: Pants Ring

On Tue, 16 May 2000 14:28:04 +0100, Phil Flack <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (16 lines)

>Anonymous wrote: >> >> What a total blast. Too funny. Anyone have a good setup for the >> Brabham F2???? I haven't gotten into setups so not sure what all to >> strengthen. I tried to make everything as high & hard as possible but >> was constantly bottoming out. BTW, and I'm sure this has been done, >> if you get at one end of pit road and reverse up the banking & then >> accellerate thru the pits you can catch some pretty good air up the >> other side. :-) Got nailed by the s/f line a couple of times. :-). >> Any chance that a larger one could be made? Also wondering, I've >> heard of a track that used to exist in Germany that was an oval with >> 95 degree banked turns. Any chance of a re-create on that one? :-) > >95 degree?!?!? that's like - upside down, innit? > >Not possible in GPL :-(

How do you know? :) -- Greger

Kevin Gavitt <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KnhU4.131$%[email hidden]... > > > As for whether the banking still exists I havn't been able to find out. I > know it still existed some years ago. I know they race on somthing theycall > AVUS since the fall of the Berlin wall but believe it is a similar but > different course. > > Anyone out there in Berlin who can supply some more info on this? I'm not in Berlin, but I believe I can supply some information. The original Avus, in 1921, was a total of 12.16 miles long; the S�dkurve was a hairpin, and the Nordkurve was a slightly banked corner. In 1937 the fearsome 43-degree banked North Curve was built; this slightly reduced the circuit length to 11.98 miles. After the end of the 2nd World War, the southern end of the circuit ran into Soviet-held territory, so a new South Curve was built, halving the circuit length to 5.157 miles. This configuration was first used in 1951. The "Wall of Death" banking was dismantled in 1967, reducing the length slightly to 5.039 miles. Between 1989 and 1991 a further reduced circuit of 3.032 miles was used. Since 1992 it has been further cut to a mere 1.640 miles; it hosts German Touring Car and F3 races. (Taken from the Guinness Guide to International Motor Racing by Peter Higham) regards -- Ian Hill, Cambridge, UK Email: [email hidden] http://ianhill.tripod.com Please visit www.thehungersite.com today!

What a total blast. Too funny. Anyone have a good setup for the Brabham F2???? I haven't gotten into setups so not sure what all to strengthen. I tried to make everything as high & hard as possible but was constantly bottoming out. BTW, and I'm sure this has been done, if you get at one end of pit road and reverse up the banking & then accellerate thru the pits you can catch some pretty good air up the other side. :-) Got nailed by the s/f line a couple of times. :-). Any chance that a larger one could be made? Also wondering, I've heard of a track that used to exist in Germany that was an oval with 95 degree banked turns. Any chance of a re-create on that one? :-) Steve-S PS. Thansk GPLEA. Tons of fun. :-) --------== Posted Anonymously via Newsfeeds.Com ==------- Featuring the worlds only Anonymous Usenet Server -----------== http://www.newsfeeds.com ==----------

Phil Flack <[email hidden]> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: [email hidden]... Hi Phil! > 95 degree?!?!? that's like - upside down, innit? > Not possible in GPL :-( Right, that's a slight overhang. Are you sure that it's not possible? If so, what a pity! Bye, bye looping :((! Regards Crash -- http://www.crashmania.de http://www.joachimblum.de (under construction) "Alle Menschen werden als Original geboren, doch die meisten sterben als Kopie." "Being hit by a meteorite is an accident - everything else is a driver's fault."

Anonymous wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > What a total blast. Too funny. Anyone have a good setup for the > Brabham F2???? I haven't gotten into setups so not sure what all to > strengthen. I tried to make everything as high & hard as possible but > was constantly bottoming out. BTW, and I'm sure this has been done, > if you get at one end of pit road and reverse up the banking & then > accellerate thru the pits you can catch some pretty good air up the > other side. :-) Got nailed by the s/f line a couple of times. :-). > Any chance that a larger one could be made? Also wondering, I've > heard of a track that used to exist in Germany that was an oval with > 95 degree banked turns. Any chance of a re-create on that one? :-)

95 degree?!?!? that's like - upside down, innit? Not possible in GPL :-( Phil

On Tue, 16 May 2000 02:46:20 -0500, Anonymous <[email hidden]> wrote: >Also wondering, I've >heard of a track that used to exist in Germany that was an oval with >95 degree banked turns. Any chance of a re-create on that one? :-) > >Steve-S 95 degree? Ouch... don't forget to wear your helmet when you drive on that 95 degree banking :) Andre

Quoted text (7 lines)

> >PS. Thansk GPLEA. Tons of fun. :-) > > > --------== Posted Anonymously via Newsfeeds.Com ==------- > Featuring the worlds only Anonymous Usenet Server > -----------== http://www.newsfeeds.com ==----------

"Anonymous" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (19 lines)

> What a total blast. Too funny. Anyone have a good setup for the > Brabham F2???? I haven't gotten into setups so not sure what all to > strengthen. I tried to make everything as high & hard as possible but > was constantly bottoming out. BTW, and I'm sure this has been done, > if you get at one end of pit road and reverse up the banking & then > accellerate thru the pits you can catch some pretty good air up the > other side. :-) Got nailed by the s/f line a couple of times. :-). > Any chance that a larger one could be made? Also wondering, I've > heard of a track that used to exist in Germany that was an oval with > 95 degree banked turns. Any chance of a re-create on that one? :-) > > Steve-S > > PS. Thansk GPLEA. Tons of fun. :-) > > > --------== Posted Anonymously via Newsfeeds.Com ==------- > Featuring the worlds only Anonymous Usenet Server > -----------== http://www.newsfeeds.com ==----------

I'm pretty sure the track you're thinking of is the old Avus track. It was an "oval" consisting of a twelve mile stretch of divided highway with a hairpin turnabout at one end and a massive banked turn at the other. There was NO wall or rail at the top of the track. Jean Behra died going over the top of it. For all practical purposes it died during WWII, the highway that it was based on stretched across the east\west border, and good ridence to it. It certainly wasn't 95 degrees, and I don't have a reference at hand, but it was almost surely the most massive banking ever built.

Kevin Gavitt <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

> I'm pretty sure the track you're thinking of is the old Avus track. It was > an "oval" consisting of a twelve mile stretch of divided highway with a > hairpin turnabout at one end and a massive banked turn at the other. > > There was NO wall or rail at the top of the track. Jean Behra died going > over the top of it. > > For all practical purposes it died during WWII, the highway that it was > based on stretched across the east\west border, and good ridence to it. > > It certainly wasn't 95 degrees, and I don't have a reference at hand, but

it > was almost surely the most massive banking ever built. Any idea if the banking still exists or has it been torn down? Are there any pictures online of the course? Thanks

I think the idea was to prevent cars from going of the top of the banking like you can do at Pants Ring. The story, as I heard it, is that the European teams were constantly challenging the American teams but none would accept. European cars were built for the standing start whereas the American Indy cars were made for a rolling start and took awhile to get up to speed. Eventualy a team accepted, don't remember who, and then the Europeans wouldn't show, supposedly, untill finally Ferrari accepted. Both teams showed at the track and they executed the standard 'run to your car, start it and drive off' start so common in those days in Europe. The Ferrari's roared away and had a lap or so lead in no time. Just as the crowd was convinced the Americans had bit off more than they could chew they noticed all 5 American cars in a line drafting thru the corner completely up on the pure vertical part of the banking. As they were doing about 25mph or so faster they easily caught the Ferraris and won the race. I don't recall if this was post or pre WWII. Probably post I'd think. Sure would like to know how much is fact & what the track was. Steve-S Makes a good story either way. Does beg for a better story teller though. :-) On Tue, 16 May 2000 16:02:38 +0200, "Joachim Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

>Phil Flack <[email hidden]> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: [email hidden]... > >Hi Phil! > >> 95 degree?!?!? that's like - upside down, innit? >> Not possible in GPL :-( > >Right, that's a slight overhang. Are you sure that it's not possible? If so, what a pity! Bye, bye looping :((! > >Regards >Crash

Then I guess my re-count of the race was probalby innacurate as well. :-) Steve-S On Tue, 16 May 2000 15:15:00 GMT, "Kevin Gavitt" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (36 lines)

> >"Anonymous" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> What a total blast. Too funny. Anyone have a good setup for the >> Brabham F2???? I haven't gotten into setups so not sure what all to >> strengthen. I tried to make everything as high & hard as possible but >> was constantly bottoming out. BTW, and I'm sure this has been done, >> if you get at one end of pit road and reverse up the banking & then >> accellerate thru the pits you can catch some pretty good air up the >> other side. :-) Got nailed by the s/f line a couple of times. :-). >> Any chance that a larger one could be made? Also wondering, I've >> heard of a track that used to exist in Germany that was an oval with >> 95 degree banked turns. Any chance of a re-create on that one? :-) >> >> Steve-S >> >> PS. Thansk GPLEA. Tons of fun. :-) >> >> >> --------== Posted Anonymously via Newsfeeds.Com ==------- >> Featuring the worlds only Anonymous Usenet Server >> -----------== http://www.newsfeeds.com ==---------- > >I'm pretty sure the track you're thinking of is the old Avus track. It was >an "oval" consisting of a twelve mile stretch of divided highway with a >hairpin turnabout at one end and a massive banked turn at the other. > >There was NO wall or rail at the top of the track. Jean Behra died going >over the top of it. > >For all practical purposes it died during WWII, the highway that it was >based on stretched across the east\west border, and good ridence to it. > >It certainly wasn't 95 degrees, and I don't have a reference at hand, but it >was almost surely the most massive banking ever built. >

"Steve Sarlls" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (23 lines)

> I think the idea was to prevent cars from going of the top of the > banking like you can do at Pants Ring. The story, as I heard it, is > that the European teams were constantly challenging the American teams > but none would accept. European cars were built for the standing > start whereas the American Indy cars were made for a rolling start and > took awhile to get up to speed. Eventualy a team accepted, don't > remember who, and then the Europeans wouldn't show, supposedly, untill > finally Ferrari accepted. Both teams showed at the track and they > executed the standard 'run to your car, start it and drive off' start > so common in those days in Europe. The Ferrari's roared away and had > a lap or so lead in no time. Just as the crowd was convinced the > Americans had bit off more than they could chew they noticed all 5 > American cars in a line drafting thru the corner completely up on the > pure vertical part of the banking. As they were doing about 25mph or > so faster they easily caught the Ferraris and won the race. I don't > recall if this was post or pre WWII. Probably post I'd think. Sure > would like to know how much is fact & what the track was. > > Steve-S > > Makes a good story either way. Does beg for a better story teller > though. :-) >

You are thinking of the "Race of Two Worlds" which was held twice in the mid 50's. It didn't go down quite the way have heard it though. With regards to the "95 degree" banking, the track used was the oval at Monza. No past vertical banking.

"Gault" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8frq6p$hsk$[email hidden]... > > Kevin Gavitt <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > I'm pretty sure the track you're thinking of is the old Avus track. Itwas

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > an "oval" consisting of a twelve mile stretch of divided highway with a > > hairpin turnabout at one end and a massive banked turn at the other. > > > > There was NO wall or rail at the top of the track. Jean Behra died going > > over the top of it. > > > > For all practical purposes it died during WWII, the highway that it was > > based on stretched across the east\west border, and good ridence to it. > > > > It certainly wasn't 95 degrees, and I don't have a reference at hand,

but

Quoted text (8 lines)

> it > > was almost surely the most massive banking ever built. > > Any idea if the banking still exists or has it been torn down? Are there > any pictures online of the course? > > Thanks >

I can't find any pictures on the web. If your library has Nigel Roebuck's "Grand Prix Greats" I know there is one little picture of the banking in the chapter on Jean Behra. I did find a couple of text references. The banking is listed as 43 degrees. I've also found one source that claims there was indeed a concrete wall at the top similar to a modern oval, but the pictures I've seen don't show it, and it sure didn't stop the odd car from popping over the top. As for whether the banking still exists I havn't been able to find out. I know it still existed some years ago. I know they race on somthing they call AVUS since the fall of the Berlin wall but believe it is a similar but different course. Anyone out there in Berlin who can supply some more info on this?

Kevin Gavitt <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KnhU4.131$%[email hidden]...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > "Gault" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8frq6p$hsk$[email hidden]... > > > > Kevin Gavitt <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > I'm pretty sure the track you're thinking of is the old Avus track. It > was > > > an "oval" consisting of a twelve mile stretch of divided highway with

a > > > hairpin turnabout at one end and a massive banked turn at the other. > > > > > > There was NO wall or rail at the top of the track. Jean Behra diedgoing > > > over the top of it. > > > > > > For all practical purposes it died during WWII, the highway that itwas > > > based on stretched across the east\west border, and good ridence toit.

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > > > > > It certainly wasn't 95 degrees, and I don't have a reference at hand, > but > > it > > > was almost surely the most massive banking ever built. > > > > Any idea if the banking still exists or has it been torn down? Are

there > > any pictures online of the course? > > > > Thanks > > > I can't find any pictures on the web. If your library has Nigel Roebuck's > "Grand Prix Greats" I know there is one little picture of the banking inthe > chapter on Jean Behra. > > I did find a couple of text references. The banking is listed as 43degrees. > I've also found one source that claims there was indeed a concrete wall at > the top similar to a modern oval, but the pictures I've seen don't showit, > and it sure didn't stop the odd car from popping over the top. > > As for whether the banking still exists I havn't been able to find out. I > know it still existed some years ago. I know they race on somthing theycall > AVUS since the fall of the Berlin wall but believe it is a similar but > different course. > > Anyone out there in Berlin who can supply some more info on this? Thanks for the information. I'm writing up a list of things to see when I finally get over to Germany and this might be worth looking into when I get to Berlin.

Boring answer... The laterals which are parallel lines surrounding the entire track can be at varying heights, thus the greatest angle you can get is 89.9999999999 degrees. Add a wall and you can have 90degrees exactly (a la Pants Ring). Slightly more interesting answer... If you have faaaaar too much free time, you could create an entire track with >90 degree 'banking', by creating a trackside object with the appropriate collision volume. Theoretically you could also have a complete loop-the-loop track, or a tunnel where you can drive on the roof, but it's all theoretical I believe... Pants Greger Huttu wrote:

Quoted text (24 lines)

> > On Tue, 16 May 2000 14:28:04 +0100, Phil Flack <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Anonymous wrote: > >> > >> What a total blast. Too funny. Anyone have a good setup for the > >> Brabham F2???? I haven't gotten into setups so not sure what all to > >> strengthen. I tried to make everything as high & hard as possible but > >> was constantly bottoming out. BTW, and I'm sure this has been done, > >> if you get at one end of pit road and reverse up the banking & then > >> accellerate thru the pits you can catch some pretty good air up the > >> other side. :-) Got nailed by the s/f line a couple of times. :-). > >> Any chance that a larger one could be made? Also wondering, I've > >> heard of a track that used to exist in Germany that was an oval with > >> 95 degree banked turns. Any chance of a re-create on that one? :-) > > > >95 degree?!?!? that's like - upside down, innit? > > > >Not possible in GPL :-( > > How do you know? :) > > -- Greger

Steve Sarlls wrote: > > Then I guess my re-count of the race was probalby innacurate as > well. :-) > But highly entertaining nonetheless. :-) -- Chuck Kandler #70 K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 Competitor in the TopGear MGPRS2 league at: http://topgear.dhs.org/ Come on & join the fun! They'll call you names And spit in your face, But legends never die. --Gene Simmons

On Wed, 17 May 2000 03:10:12 GMT, Chuck Kandler <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>Steve Sarlls wrote: >> >> Then I guess my re-count of the race was probalby innacurate as >> well. :-) >> > > >But highly entertaining nonetheless. :-)

I wonder if that was my dads reason for telling it to me in that fashion. I was rather young at the time. And it was a very entertaining story that I had many great daydreams about. :-). Just the image of 5 60's era (that's when he told me the story so...) Indy cars screaming around a 90 degree bank all in a line is rather invigorating. Sigh, Reality can really suck some times. :-) Steve-S

95 degree banks???? Then you're partway to running upside down!!!!! Hint: Go get Alison Hine's GPL Race Engineer. It lets you 'cheat' a little and go with stiffer springs than you can do in the game seutp menu. Once I set my Eagle F1 up with 300 lb/in springs front, 400 lb/in rear and roll bars and all of that it works great. Otherwise you'll bottom all of the time and spin. -- Kirk Lane [email hidden] ICQ: 28171652 AIM: Kirker64 (IM me twice so I can reply...using a beta client) "The time has come for me to kill this game Now open wide and say my name" - "Space Lord", Monster Magnet Anonymous <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > What a total blast. Too funny. Anyone have a good setup for the > Brabham F2???? I haven't gotten into setups so not sure what all to > strengthen. I tried to make everything as high & hard as possible but > was constantly bottoming out. BTW, and I'm sure this has been done, > if you get at one end of pit road and reverse up the banking & then > accellerate thru the pits you can catch some pretty good air up the > other side. :-) Got nailed by the s/f line a couple of times. :-). > Any chance that a larger one could be made? Also wondering, I've > heard of a track that used to exist in Germany that was an oval with > 95 degree banked turns. Any chance of a re-create on that one? :-) > > Steve-S > > PS. Thansk GPLEA. Tons of fun. :-) > > > --------== Posted Anonymously via Newsfeeds.Com ==------- > Featuring the worlds only Anonymous Usenet Server > -----------== http://www.newsfeeds.com ==----------

"Gault" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8frq6p$hsk$[email hidden]... > > Kevin Gavitt <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > I'm pretty sure the track you're thinking of is the old Avus track. Itwas

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > an "oval" consisting of a twelve mile stretch of divided highway with a > > hairpin turnabout at one end and a massive banked turn at the other. > > > > There was NO wall or rail at the top of the track. Jean Behra died going > > over the top of it. > > > > For all practical purposes it died during WWII, the highway that it was > > based on stretched across the east\west border, and good ridence to it. > > > > It certainly wasn't 95 degrees, and I don't have a reference at hand,

but

Quoted text (8 lines)

> it > > was almost surely the most massive banking ever built. > > Any idea if the banking still exists or has it been torn down? Are there > any pictures online of the course? > > Thanks >

http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/tracks/ Not much under the Avus links tho. One pic of the track layout. MRSisson

I've seen pictures of a vertical (or very nearly so) banking at the Mercedes-Benz Proving Ground. Not sure what part of Germany this is in. I don't think that they race on it, but the pic I saw did have a car up there on the wall. On Tue, 16 May 2000, Ian Hill wrote:

Quoted text (39 lines)

> > Kevin Gavitt <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:KnhU4.131$%[email hidden]... > > > > > > As for whether the banking still exists I havn't been able to find out. I > > know it still existed some years ago. I know they race on somthing they > call > > AVUS since the fall of the Berlin wall but believe it is a similar but > > different course. > > > > Anyone out there in Berlin who can supply some more info on this? > > I'm not in Berlin, but I believe I can supply some information. > > The original Avus, in 1921, was a total of 12.16 miles long; the Sdkurve > was a hairpin, and the Nordkurve was a slightly banked corner. > In 1937 the fearsome 43-degree banked North Curve was built; this > slightly reduced the circuit length to 11.98 miles. > After the end of the 2nd World War, the southern end of the circuit ran > into Soviet-held territory, so a new South Curve was built, halving the > circuit length to 5.157 miles. This configuration was first used in 1951. > The "Wall of Death" banking was dismantled in 1967, reducing the length > slightly to 5.039 miles. > Between 1989 and 1991 a further reduced circuit of 3.032 miles was used. > Since 1992 it has been further cut to a mere 1.640 miles; it hosts German > Touring Car and F3 races. > > (Taken from the Guinness Guide to International Motor Racing by Peter > Higham) > > regards > -- > Ian Hill, Cambridge, UK Email: [email hidden] > http://ianhill.tripod.com > Please visit www.thehungersite.com today! > > >

Doug Milliken <[email hidden]> wrote: >I've seen pictures of a vertical (or very nearly so) banking at the >Mercedes-Benz Proving Ground. Not sure what part of Germany this is in. I >don't think that they race on it, but the pic I saw did have a car up there >on the wall. This proving ground is somewhere near Stuttgart, where the Mercedes cars are made. (For the geography-impaired: Stuttgart is in southern Germany, a few hundred kilometers southwest of Berlin.) AFAIK, it has never been used for racing. As the name suggests, it is a proving ground for new vehicles. The banking is such that you don't have to steer to get through the corners - no sports appeal since you can go as fast as you want to without having to have special driving skills. A certain physical fitness is required, though, to withstand the g-forces, I assume. ;) >On Tue, 16 May 2000, Ian Hill wrote: [AVUS] >> Between 1989 and 1991 a further reduced circuit of 3.032 miles was used. >> Since 1992 it has been further cut to a mere 1.640 miles; it hosts German >> Touring Car and F3 races. IIRC, the AVUS has been discontinued as a racetrack last year. The problem was that the track is also a part of Berlin's Autobahn system. Closing it down for races had the same effect on traffic as closing down parts of Washington's capital beltway or Paris' peripherique would have... AFAIK, the only extant racetrack with considerably banked corners in Germany today is the brand new Lausitzring tri-oval. The track owners are trying to get a contract for an overseas CART or IRL (or however the series is called these days - INLRS or some such?) race. -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome. [email hidden] \ Spam (UCE) is not welcome will lead to the cancellation \ of your account. I mean it. Spammer, you have been warned.