Unless you are planning on becoming a race driver, for which you
will need a lot more than a simulator, why worry about crashing
while racing? Personally, I like the idea of total realism with
respect to the interaction of wheels on the pavement combined with
the fun of being indestructible. Wouldn't that help solve the
problem of inexperienced drivers who don't let you pass? You could
do like the police during a real-life car chase and spin them out of
the way. Faster drivers will still always make up time when not
having to pass other cars. Of course it would advantage someone
who's good at bumping around in traffic, but that too is a skill.
I'm sure it's not a novel idea, but do any groups practice that in
online racing?
By the way, FWIW.
In spite of SecuROM, I totally enjoy exotic racetracks in Simbin's
games. I wonder why anyone would want to race around an oval track
for four hours. Maybe the main excitement in that is interaction
with other cars.
> the fun of being indestructible.
The alternative is collision off racing, cars can go through each
other. Collision off was the norm for some racing games.
> In spite of SecuROM, I totally enjoy exotic racetracks in Simbin's
> games. I wonder why anyone would want to race around an oval track
> for four hours.
For the money. Worse yet are the 12 hour and 24 hour endurance races.
Regarding racing ovals online in games, especially open servers on NR2003,
it's the fact that just about anyone can win, in spite of their racing
skills.
In article <AVgAk.473$[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
Not sure you're going to get many advocates here. Besides, the netcode
is going to have to be pretty damn good to allow you to bump another so
precisely as to spin them out and allow you to keep going. Haven't done
any online stuff in the last couple of years now so things have probably
improved, but normally any kind of coming together would result in both
cars careering off into the nearest piece of scenery.
--
Pete Ives
Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email
Quoted text (14 lines)
> > Unless you are planning on becoming a race driver, for which you > will need a lot more than a simulator, why worry about crashing > while racing? Personally, I like the idea of total realism with > respect to the interaction of wheels on the pavement combined with > the fun of being indestructible. Wouldn't that help solve the > problem of inexperienced drivers who don't let you pass? You could > do like the police during a real-life car chase and spin them out of > the way. Faster drivers will still always make up time when not > having to pass other cars. Of course it would advantage someone > who's good at bumping around in traffic, but that too is a skill. > I'm sure it's not a novel idea, but do any groups practice that in > online racing? >Peter <[email hidden]> wrote:
It works in GTR. It works in Need for Speed too. Obviously it's not
rocket science.
--
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Quoted text (22 lines)
> [email hidden] says... >> >> Unless you are planning on becoming a race driver, for which you >> will need a lot more than a simulator, why worry about crashing >> while racing? Personally, I like the idea of total realism with >> respect to the interaction of wheels on the pavement combined >> with the fun of being indestructible. Wouldn't that help solve >> the problem of inexperienced drivers who don't let you pass? You >> could do like the police during a real-life car chase and spin >> them out of the way. Faster drivers will still always make up >> time when not having to pass other cars. Of course it would >> advantage someone who's good at bumping around in traffic, but >> that too is a skill. I'm sure it's not a novel idea, but do any >> groups practice that in online racing? > Not sure you're going to get many advocates here. Besides, the > netcode is going to have to be pretty damn good to allow you to > bump another so precisely as to spin them out and allow you to > keep going. Haven't done any online stuff in the last couple of > years now so things have probably improved, but normally any kind > of coming together would result in both cars careering off into > the nearest piece of scenery.> I like the idea of total realism with respect to the interaction
> of wheels on the pavement combined with the fun of being indestructible.
This is how Toca Race Driver 3 works. Turns out that your fastest
lap times occur when you use opponent cars as brake and cornering assists.
The normal strategy is to brake too late, ram the opponent car from
behind, sending that car off track, and slowing your car enough to make
the turn. During corner exit, if someone ahead isn't on the inside line, you
can dive inside going too fast timing it so your car slides into the
opponent car, bumping the opponent car off track, and keeping you on
track.
Because of tactics like this, many in RD3 choose to run with collision off.
In the older need for speed games (High Stakes and Porsche Unleashed), the
vast majority of races were done collsion off (drafting should be disabled
with collision off).
"jeffareid" <[email hidden]> wrote:
That stuff is easier said than done against intelligent,
experienced, and skillful drivers.
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Quoted text (12 lines)
>> I like the idea of total realism with respect to the interaction >> of wheels on the pavement combined with the fun of being >> indestructible. > > This is how Toca Race Driver 3 works. Turns out that your fastest > lap times occur when you use opponent cars as brake and cornering > assists. The normal strategy is to brake too late, ram the > opponent car from behind, sending that car off track, and slowing > your car enough to make the turn. During corner exit, if someone > ahead isn't on the inside line, you can dive inside going too fast > timing it so your car slides into the opponent car, bumping the > opponent car off track, and keeping you on track.John Doe wrote:
> Peter <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> [email hidden] says...
>>> Unless you are planning on becoming a race driver, for which you
>>> will need a lot more than a simulator, why worry about crashing
>>> while racing?...
>> Not sure you're going to get many advocates here. Besides, the
>> netcode is going to have to be pretty damn good to allow you to
>> bump another so precisely as to spin them out and allow you to
>> keep going....
> It works in GTR. It works in Need for Speed too. Obviously it's not
> rocket science.
What I used in Racer turned out to be the simplest method; swap
velocities on contact. Just that. Unfortunately it doesn't handle
rotational changes (impulses) correctly but generally both cars are
going in the same direction more or less, so it looked quite convincing.
Also over networking.
Ruud
Quoted text (11 lines)
>> This is how Toca Race Driver 3 works. Turns out that your fastest >> lap times occur when you use opponent cars as brake and cornering >> assists. The normal strategy is to brake too late, ram the >> opponent car from behind, sending that car off track, and slowing >> your car enough to make the turn. During corner exit, if someone >> ahead isn't on the inside line, you can dive inside going too fast >> timing it so your car slides into the opponent car, bumping the >> opponent car off track, and keeping you on track. > > That stuff is easier said than done against intelligent, > experienced, and skillful drivers."jeffareid" <[email hidden]> wrote:
I disagree. Maybe we can get together and you can prove how easy it
is.
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Quoted text (16 lines)
>>> The normal strategy is to brake too late, ram >>> the opponent car from behind, sending that car off track, and >>> slowing your car enough to make the turn. During corner exit, if >>> someone ahead isn't on the inside line, you can dive inside >>> going too fast timing it so your car slides into the opponent >>> car, bumping the opponent car off track, and keeping you on >>> track. >> >> That stuff is easier said than done against intelligent, >> experienced, and skillful drivers. > > Not when thse skillful drivers brake for corner entry, and the > driver behind choose to ram them. It's difficult to swerve to > avoid a rammer while under braking because lateral forces are > limited. Some method of placing blame on what driver was > responsible for contact would be needed to stop this.>> Not when thse skillful drivers brake for corner entry, and the
>> driver behind choose to ram them.
> I disagree. Maybe we can get together and you can prove how easy it
> is.
Make this simpler, take two equally skilled drivers and allow only
one of them to ram the other from behind during corner braking, (with
a no damage, no fault situation), who wins?
Turn off collision and drafting, it may not be realistic, but it
eliminated any wrecker issues.
"jeffareid" <[email hidden]> wrote:
No way.
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Quoted text (7 lines)
>>> Not when thse skillful drivers brake for corner entry, and the >>> driver behind choose to ram them. > >> I disagree. Maybe we can get together and you can prove how easy it >> is. > > Make this simpler, take two equally skilled drivers and allow
"Peter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
In rFactor it very easy to bump cars off the road and get away with it. The
online servers set the damage too low, hence the unrealistic driving
methods.
Quoted text (24 lines)
> In article <AVgAk.473$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... >> >> Unless you are planning on becoming a race driver, for which you >> will need a lot more than a simulator, why worry about crashing >> while racing? Personally, I like the idea of total realism with >> respect to the interaction of wheels on the pavement combined with >> the fun of being indestructible. Wouldn't that help solve the >> problem of inexperienced drivers who don't let you pass? You could >> do like the police during a real-life car chase and spin them out of >> the way. Faster drivers will still always make up time when not >> having to pass other cars. Of course it would advantage someone >> who's good at bumping around in traffic, but that too is a skill. >> I'm sure it's not a novel idea, but do any groups practice that in >> online racing? >> > > Not sure you're going to get many advocates here. Besides, the netcode > is going to have to be pretty damn good to allow you to bump another so > precisely as to spin them out and allow you to keep going. Haven't done > any online stuff in the last couple of years now so things have probably > improved, but normally any kind of coming together would result in both > cars careering off into the nearest piece of scenery. >
"David Fisher's Left Testicle" <dfg.myass@aol> wrote in message
news:z8mCk.65112$[email hidden]...
I was doing a Late Model race a while back and it was down to a couple of
laps to go and I was ahead of a car I was racing for position. He gave me a
tap entering the corner and moved me up a bit and got around me. Zero
incident points were accessed to either of us, so it can be done
realistically if you know what you are doing. I considered it very good
racing.
Ed
Quoted text (30 lines)
> > "Peter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> In article <AVgAk.473$[email hidden]>, >> [email hidden] says... >>> >>> Unless you are planning on becoming a race driver, for which you >>> will need a lot more than a simulator, why worry about crashing >>> while racing? Personally, I like the idea of total realism with >>> respect to the interaction of wheels on the pavement combined with >>> the fun of being indestructible. Wouldn't that help solve the >>> problem of inexperienced drivers who don't let you pass? You could >>> do like the police during a real-life car chase and spin them out of >>> the way. Faster drivers will still always make up time when not >>> having to pass other cars. Of course it would advantage someone >>> who's good at bumping around in traffic, but that too is a skill. >>> I'm sure it's not a novel idea, but do any groups practice that in >>> online racing? >>> >> >> Not sure you're going to get many advocates here. Besides, the netcode >> is going to have to be pretty damn good to allow you to bump another so >> precisely as to spin them out and allow you to keep going. Haven't done >> any online stuff in the last couple of years now so things have probably >> improved, but normally any kind of coming together would result in both >> cars careering off into the nearest piece of scenery. >> > In rFactor it very easy to bump cars off the road and get away with it. > The online servers set the damage too low, hence the unrealistic driving > methods.Ed Medlin wrote:
In Iracing, it seemed to me, that the incident system (I forget what
they call it), was tuned for circle track racing. Try the same thing on
a road course and see what happens. Any incident on a road course gets
you dinged, but on an oval, it's please sir can I have another.
I can see why they tuned it for ovals. Ovals being (unfortunately) the
pinnacle of racing in America.
Quoted text (39 lines)
> "David Fisher's Left Testicle" <dfg.myass@aol> wrote in message > news:z8mCk.65112$[email hidden]... >> "Peter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >>> In article <AVgAk.473$[email hidden]>, >>> [email hidden] says... >>>> Unless you are planning on becoming a race driver, for which you >>>> will need a lot more than a simulator, why worry about crashing >>>> while racing? Personally, I like the idea of total realism with >>>> respect to the interaction of wheels on the pavement combined with >>>> the fun of being indestructible. Wouldn't that help solve the >>>> problem of inexperienced drivers who don't let you pass? You could >>>> do like the police during a real-life car chase and spin them out of >>>> the way. Faster drivers will still always make up time when not >>>> having to pass other cars. Of course it would advantage someone >>>> who's good at bumping around in traffic, but that too is a skill. >>>> I'm sure it's not a novel idea, but do any groups practice that in >>>> online racing? >>>> >>> Not sure you're going to get many advocates here. Besides, the netcode >>> is going to have to be pretty damn good to allow you to bump another so >>> precisely as to spin them out and allow you to keep going. Haven't done >>> any online stuff in the last couple of years now so things have probably >>> improved, but normally any kind of coming together would result in both >>> cars careering off into the nearest piece of scenery. >>> >> In rFactor it very easy to bump cars off the road and get away with it. >> The online servers set the damage too low, hence the unrealistic driving >> methods. > I was doing a Late Model race a while back and it was down to a couple of > laps to go and I was ahead of a car I was racing for position. He gave me a > tap entering the corner and moved me up a bit and got around me. Zero > incident points were accessed to either of us, so it can be done > realistically if you know what you are doing. I considered it very good > racing. > > Ed > >[email hidden] (Richard) wrote:
> Ovals being (unfortunately) the
> pinnacle of racing in America.
I've only recently had access to Channel5 & digital TV in the UK, and have been
watching... well, recording anyway, the Nascar races. The first few I watched all
the way through, probably because of the novelty. But even though I enjoy a bit of
oval racing myself (I can understand the challenge, at least on longer ovals... the
short ones annoy me), my watching has tailed off towards zero, with an awful lot of
fast forwarding. I guess oval fans would say similar things about F1 or the BTCC,
but I just can't maintain interest across a 400 lap race and a dozen yellow flags,
with fifty-ish drivers.
Like most sports, I guess it's largely cultural. You grow up with these things and
they become ingrained in your habits. You 'mesh' with the sport and the changing
participants.
I do still get some pleasure from the Nascar races though. I play a game called
'guess the combined weight of the pit lane crew'. Some of them are a big sneaky and
have a skinny guy on the team. It throws my calculations way off.
Andrew McP
> In Iracing, it seemed to me, that the incident system (I forget what they
> call it), was tuned for circle track racing. Try the same thing on a road
> course and see what happens. Any incident on a road course gets you
> dinged, but on an oval, it's please sir can I have another.
> I can see why they tuned it for ovals. Ovals being (unfortunately) the
> pinnacle of racing in America.
I can't speak for all Americans, but I really enjoy all racing. With Nascar
money now going behind the Dayton Prototype Series, I can see a lot of
growth there over the next few years. I would like to see the resurgence of
road racing in the US. Up until the 70s it was very strong, but with the
extra expense and all that went with it, the local SCCA amateur clubs all
dried up and along with that a lot of the popularity. I can't remember the
last time the F1 series was as interesting as it has been the last two
years. Things like the call from FIA on Hamilton a couple of weeks ago don't
help, but hey.......Nascar does the same thing on occasion......:-).
Politics is very strong in all types of racing. In iRacing, you can get 0x
contact between cars in all series, road courses included. It is just harder
to do in a road race than an oval because of the speed differences. On an
oval, the speeds are usually very similar between two cars racing for
position and a slight tap is easier to do. In road racing, the overtaking
car usually is dependent upon a mistake by the car in front and the closure
rate is usually much quicker so that contact is usually much harder. I do
find that the incident system is much too tough in road racing compared to
ovals when a tire off can get you 2-4 points off your iRating. You don't see
nearly as many 4.99 ratings in road racing as you do on the ovals.
Ed
