Re: Please give details about F12000 patch!!

Arto Wikla wrote:

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> > I installed the F1_2000_V106.zip patch. I am content to the new > "Unsupprted features" but to me the following was strange reading: > > >GPL FF is a little more polished, but F12K FF gives > >the same quality of feedback. I'm really impressed > >by it. > > I cannot understand that - perhaps I did something wrong - but when I > set the centering to zero with my MSFF, I cannot feel any FF forces > when on track! The "force level" is "High". Or if there are some, they > are very, very weak. Nothing compared to the forces in GPL. And > the kerbs feel similiar they used to feel before the patch.

Alison found something a while back. Seems that F12K FF is different from GPL in that you have to have the centering spring enabled to get the effects. I have my centering spring in my ACT Labs Force RS set to 50%, and it feels good. I would like to have stronger effects - maybe increasing the spring force will make them stronger. I'll post whatever I find. > >I hope someone else comments on their impressions > >soon, maybe I'm just imagining things :) > > I do not know, but perhaps you are? Did you try it without centering? Yes. Without centering, most of the effects are gone. I ran some more laps today, and I'm definitely not imagining it, but I fear that a dead zone problem I recently solved was affecting F12K FF. Maybe there is no change in 1.06, and my dead zone was previously masking the effects. Again, I think the effects I'm getting right now are very good, and help a lot when driving the car. -- Pat Dotson

Act Labs Force RS - centering spring at 50%. I talked to Gjon today, and he wasn't aware of any large scale work on FF, though he said there were some changes to FF. Only a week ago, I finally got rid of a dead zone in F12K, and maybe having the dead zone present before was screwing up my FF. I don't know, but I like what I'm getting now! -- Pat Dotson Iain Mackenzie wrote: > > Pat, > As I said in a post above, I just can't understand where you are getting > this FF improvement from! I wish it were true, believe me. As far as I am > concerned, there is no change whatsoever to the FF effects in 1.06, just a > massive improvement to the AI performance. > What wheel are you using? What settings have you got? > Iain > > Pat Dotson <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > GPL FF is a little more polished, but F12K FF gives > > the same quality of feedback. I'm really impressed > > by it. It seems to translate G-force information > > back through the steering wheel, instead of using > > wheel and suspension forces like GPL. > > > > GPL behaves a bit more realistic. For instance, > > in GPL, if you stop the car, and turn the wheel > > to the side, the wheel will stay turned. If you > > give the car some throttle, the movement of the > > car will provide a centering force on the front > > wheels, which will center the steering wheel. In > > F12K, this type of force isn't present, but you > > can feel the car sticking to the road while driving > > at higher speeds. > > > > I hope someone else comments on their impressions > > soon, maybe I'm just imagining things :) > > > > -- > > Pat Dotson > > > > > > > > Andre Warringa wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, 22 May 2000 00:45:52 -0500, Pat Dotson > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > >I am finding the FF to be as good as GPL with > > > >1.06! I tried turning on FF just as a lark, > > > >and it blew me away. Still a bit of a frame > > > >rate hit, but now it's worth it! > > > > > > > >Anyone who knows me, knows how great I think > > > >GPL FF is. I'm not giving F12K high marks in > > > >FF lightly - it's really that good. > > > > > > Just as good as in GPL? Ok, you convinced me, I'm going to reinstall > > > F12K !!! > > > > > > Andre > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >Pat Dotson > > > >

GPL FF is a little more polished, but F12K FF gives the same quality of feedback. I'm really impressed by it. It seems to translate G-force information back through the steering wheel, instead of using wheel and suspension forces like GPL. GPL behaves a bit more realistic. For instance, in GPL, if you stop the car, and turn the wheel to the side, the wheel will stay turned. If you give the car some throttle, the movement of the car will provide a centering force on the front wheels, which will center the steering wheel. In F12K, this type of force isn't present, but you can feel the car sticking to the road while driving at higher speeds. I hope someone else comments on their impressions soon, maybe I'm just imagining things :) -- Pat Dotson Andre Warringa wrote: > > On Mon, 22 May 2000 00:45:52 -0500, Pat Dotson > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I am finding the FF to be as good as GPL with > >1.06! I tried turning on FF just as a lark, > >and it blew me away. Still a bit of a frame > >rate hit, but now it's worth it! > > > >Anyone who knows me, knows how great I think > >GPL FF is. I'm not giving F12K high marks in > >FF lightly - it's really that good. > > Just as good as in GPL? Ok, you convinced me, I'm going to reinstall > F12K !!! > > Andre > > > > >-- > >Pat Dotson > >

On Mon, 22 May 2000 00:45:52 -0500, Pat Dotson <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I am finding the FF to be as good as GPL with >1.06! I tried turning on FF just as a lark, >and it blew me away. Still a bit of a frame >rate hit, but now it's worth it! > >Anyone who knows me, knows how great I think >GPL FF is. I'm not giving F12K high marks in >FF lightly - it's really that good.

Just as good as in GPL? Ok, you convinced me, I'm going to reinstall F12K !!! Andre > >-- >Pat Dotson >

GPL FF is a little more polished, but F12K FF gives the same quality of feedback. I'm really impressed by it. It seems to translate G-force information back through the steering wheel, instead of using wheel and suspension forces like GPL. GPL behaves a bit more realistic. For instance, in GPL, if you stop the car, and turn the wheel to the side, the wheel will stay turned. If you give the car some throttle, the movement of the car will provide a centering force on the front wheels, which will center the steering wheel. In F12K, this type of force isn't present, but you can feel the car sticking to the road while driving at higher speeds. I hope someone else comments on their impressions soon, maybe I'm just imagining things :) -- Pat Dotson > On Mon, 22 May 2000 00:45:52 -0500, Pat Dotson > >I am finding the FF to be as good as GPL with > >1.06! I tried turning on FF just as a lark, > >and it blew me away. Still a bit of a frame > >rate hit, but now it's worth it! > >Anyone who knows me, knows how great I think > >GPL FF is. I'm not giving F12K high marks in > >FF lightly - it's really that good. > Just as good as in GPL? Ok, you convinced me, I'm going to reinstall > F12K !!! > Andre > >-- > >Pat Dotson

I installed the F1_2000_V106.zip patch. I am content to the new "Unsupprted features" but to me the following was strange reading: >GPL FF is a little more polished, but F12K FF gives >the same quality of feedback. I'm really impressed >by it. I cannot understand that - perhaps I did something wrong - but when I set the centering to zero with my MSFF, I cannot feel any FF forces when on track! The "force level" is "High". Or if there are some, they are very, very weak. Nothing compared to the forces in GPL. And the kerbs feel similiar they used to feel before the patch. >I hope someone else comments on their impressions >soon, maybe I'm just imagining things :) I do not know, but perhaps you are? Did you try it without centering? I by myself might be imaginaging one thing: I think the fps is better. Is it possible? Did the makers of the patch work also on that? I have not yet been able to estimate the AI, I am not that good driver yet... :-) And then some questions og the "Unsupported features" settings: 1) What is the effect of MIP mapping (I use V2), to the graphics, to the frame rate? 2) Should Autoload Track Settings save my selections for every track setups? At least the highlightning of the selection does not seem to be saved. 3) What kind of advantage could I get from the Controller 1 and 2 Settings? (I have split axis, MSFF) I guess there are interesting possibilities, but I cannot see, where to start... And thanks to you all, who are working with this unoffial path! Continue with your good work! Arto

Yep, the fences don't shimmer, but everything just looks unrealistic with mipmap on in my opinion. Iain Nos <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 22 May 2000 06:19:07 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >All the options in the patch were switchable previously by making the > >changes in the config file. > > Didn't know that. Only had F12K a few days. > > >With mipmap on, the graphics look horrible > >IMO - just too smoothed out. > > The fence does look a tad thick now, but al least the fences don't > shimmer now. > > > -- > Nos

Pat, As I said in a post above, I just can't understand where you are getting this FF improvement from! I wish it were true, believe me. As far as I am concerned, there is no change whatsoever to the FF effects in 1.06, just a massive improvement to the AI performance. What wheel are you using? What settings have you got? Iain Pat Dotson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> GPL FF is a little more polished, but F12K FF gives > the same quality of feedback. I'm really impressed > by it. It seems to translate G-force information > back through the steering wheel, instead of using > wheel and suspension forces like GPL. > > GPL behaves a bit more realistic. For instance, > in GPL, if you stop the car, and turn the wheel > to the side, the wheel will stay turned. If you > give the car some throttle, the movement of the > car will provide a centering force on the front > wheels, which will center the steering wheel. In > F12K, this type of force isn't present, but you > can feel the car sticking to the road while driving > at higher speeds. > > I hope someone else comments on their impressions > soon, maybe I'm just imagining things :) > > -- > Pat Dotson > > > > Andre Warringa wrote: > > > > On Mon, 22 May 2000 00:45:52 -0500, Pat Dotson > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >I am finding the FF to be as good as GPL with > > >1.06! I tried turning on FF just as a lark, > > >and it blew me away. Still a bit of a frame > > >rate hit, but now it's worth it! > > > > > >Anyone who knows me, knows how great I think > > >GPL FF is. I'm not giving F12K high marks in > > >FF lightly - it's really that good. > > > > Just as good as in GPL? Ok, you convinced me, I'm going to reinstall > > F12K !!! > > > > Andre > > > > > > > >-- > > >Pat Dotson > > >

On Mon, 22 May 2000 20:13:10 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Yep, the fences don't shimmer, but everything just looks unrealistic with >mipmap on in my opinion. >Iain I'll have to do some more experimenting to see which I prefer. Bet it would look great on a V5 FSAA with mipmapping off. Don't know about frame rate though. -- Nos

Yea, sorry, I was all wet in claiming that it has been improved - it was good all along :) You just have to have the default centering spring enabled, or you don't get the handling effects. -- Pat Dotson Andre Warringa wrote: > > Hmmm... installed the patch, tried it... AI improved a lot (allthough > they don't brake when they're behind me, just like Surtees in GPL) but > I also didn't notice the slightest improvement in the FF... > I use a LWFF. I didn't try it with centering spring on, I'll let you > know if that helped when I get back home.

Ok, Pat, that helps some. How or what did you do to remove the deadzone? thanks dave henrie Pat Dotson wrote:

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> > Act Labs Force RS - centering spring at 50%. > > I talked to Gjon today, and he wasn't aware of any > large scale work on FF, though he said there were > some changes to FF. > > Only a week ago, I finally got rid of a dead zone > in F12K, and maybe having the dead zone present > before was screwing up my FF. I don't know, but > I like what I'm getting now! > > -- > Pat Dotson > > Iain Mackenzie wrote: > > > > Pat, > > As I said in a post above, I just can't understand where you are getting > > this FF improvement from! I wish it were true, believe me. As far as I am > > concerned, there is no change whatsoever to the FF effects in 1.06, just a > > massive improvement to the AI performance. > > What wheel are you using? What settings have you got? > > Iain > > > > Pat Dotson <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > GPL FF is a little more polished, but F12K FF gives > > > the same quality of feedback. I'm really impressed > > > by it. It seems to translate G-force information > > > back through the steering wheel, instead of using > > > wheel and suspension forces like GPL. > > > > > > GPL behaves a bit more realistic. For instance, > > > in GPL, if you stop the car, and turn the wheel > > > to the side, the wheel will stay turned. If you > > > give the car some throttle, the movement of the > > > car will provide a centering force on the front > > > wheels, which will center the steering wheel. In > > > F12K, this type of force isn't present, but you > > > can feel the car sticking to the road while driving > > > at higher speeds. > > > > > > I hope someone else comments on their impressions > > > soon, maybe I'm just imagining things :) > > > > > > -- > > > Pat Dotson > > > > > > > > > > > > Andre Warringa wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mon, 22 May 2000 00:45:52 -0500, Pat Dotson > > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > > >I am finding the FF to be as good as GPL with > > > > >1.06! I tried turning on FF just as a lark, > > > > >and it blew me away. Still a bit of a frame > > > > >rate hit, but now it's worth it! > > > > > > > > > >Anyone who knows me, knows how great I think > > > > >GPL FF is. I'm not giving F12K high marks in > > > > >FF lightly - it's really that good. > > > > > > > > Just as good as in GPL? Ok, you convinced me, I'm going to reinstall > > > > F12K !!! > > > > > > > > Andre > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > > >Pat Dotson > > > > >

Hmmm... installed the patch, tried it... AI improved a lot (allthough they don't brake when they're behind me, just like Surtees in GPL) but I also didn't notice the slightest improvement in the FF... I use a LWFF. I didn't try it with centering spring on, I'll let you know if that helped when I get back home. By the way, there is a problem when assigning the buttons after the patch: It doesn't work. Fix: Assign the buttons before you install the patch. If you allready messed with the buttons after you installed the patch, simply copy the old f12000.exe file over the patched one, assign the buttons, and copy the patched f12000.exe over the original f12000.exe file. Andre On Mon, 22 May 2000 19:39:47 -0500, Pat Dotson <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Act Labs Force RS - centering spring at 50%. > >I talked to Gjon today, and he wasn't aware of any >large scale work on FF, though he said there were >some changes to FF. > >Only a week ago, I finally got rid of a dead zone >in F12K, and maybe having the dead zone present >before was screwing up my FF. I don't know, but >I like what I'm getting now! > >-- >Pat Dotson

thus spoke: Yes, this really bugs me. Keep getting rammed from behind. Too bad it can't be fixed. -- Nos

On Tue, 23 May 2000 07:52:41 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) thus spoke: >Hmmm... installed the patch, tried it... AI improved a lot (allthough >they don't brake when they're behind me, just like Surtees in GPL) Yes, this really bugs me. Keep getting rammed from behind. Too bad it can't be fixed. -- Nos

In article <aKKW4.1384$uN.28558@news2- win.server.ntlworld.com>, "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote: >It doesn't necessarily need to be 'fixed'. In a real race, ifthe guy in >front brakes too hard (or misses a gear), then he's going to berammed by >the car behind. >I think you'll find that if you are driving well (in any racingsim) you >won't have this problem. >Iain > You are exactly right Iain. If you suddenly brake with a car close behind you he will indeed hit you from behind as he does not have to react. If you take the corners properly etc. (takes some practice but can be done) then all will be smooth just like the real thing. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

It doesn't necessarily need to be 'fixed'. In a real race, if the guy in front brakes too hard (or misses a gear), then he's going to be rammed by the car behind. I think you'll find that if you are driving well (in any racing sim) you won't have this problem. Iain Nos <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 23 May 2000 07:52:41 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) > thus spoke: > > >Hmmm... installed the patch, tried it... AI improved a lot (allthough > >they don't brake when they're behind me, just like Surtees in GPL) > > Yes, this really bugs me. Keep getting rammed from behind. Too bad it > can't be fixed. > > -- > Nos

You're right Pat, I turned the centering on and set it to 60%, ff is a l-o-t better now. No GPL and Viper quality, but quite good. Thanks! Andre On Tue, 23 May 2000 12:35:57 -0500, Pat Dotson <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Yea, sorry, I was all wet in claiming that it >has been improved - it was good all along :) > >You just have to have the default centering >spring enabled, or you don't get the handling >effects. > >-- >Pat Dotson > >Andre Warringa wrote: >> >> Hmmm... installed the patch, tried it... AI improved a lot (allthough >> they don't brake when they're behind me, just like Surtees in GPL) but >> I also didn't notice the slightest improvement in the FF... >> I use a LWFF. I didn't try it with centering spring on, I'll let you >> know if that helped when I get back home.

On Wed, 24 May 2000 07:36:08 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >It doesn't necessarily need to be 'fixed'. In a real race, if the guy in >front brakes too hard (or misses a gear), then he's going to be rammed by >the car behind. >I think you'll find that if you are driving well (in any racing sim) you >won't have this problem. >Iain Maybe. But, I doubt it. I rarely get rammed from behind in other sims. In F1 2000 in happens far too often. Radio says "you collided with so and so" when I did no such thing. -- Nos

On Wed, 24 May 2000 00:19:44 -0700, Robert Allen <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >You are exactly right Iain. If you suddenly brake with a car >close behind you he will indeed hit you from behind as he does >not have to react. If you take the corners properly etc. (takes >some practice but can be done) then all will be smooth just like >the real thing. Then try this if you think that's true. Turn on point brake help and you will find you rarely have to touch the brakes. You still get rammed from behind. -- Nos

thus spoke: I guess so. But, the judge won't buy his story. :-) -- Nos

On Wed, 24 May 2000 14:35:34 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Happens a lot in GPL and MGPRS2 if you brake too early - that's close racing >for you! >The message you mention is correct, you did collide with .... if you got >rammed. >Iain You're just full of contradictions today. :-) I have played F1RS/MGPRS2 and GPL and I don't get rammed in the back anywhere near as much as in F1 2000. It needs to be toned down. You can't judge distance on a montitor like you can in real life so concessions must be made. -- Nos

Nos wrote: > > Maybe. But, I doubt it. I rarely get rammed from behind in other sims. > In F1 2000 in happens far too often. Radio says "you collided with so > and so" when I did no such thing. > -- > Nos I'm not a native speaker, but isn't that the correct way to put it? I mean, you did collide with the guy that rammed you, and he collided with you as well, didn't he? It would be different if the radio guy said 'you hit such and such', but to collide with someone in my opinion means getting into contact with someone and does not imply any action on behalf of the parties for this to happen. -Gregor

Happens a lot in GPL and MGPRS2 if you brake too early - that's close racing for you! The message you mention is correct, you did collide with .... if you got rammed. Iain Nos <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 24 May 2000 07:36:08 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >It doesn't necessarily need to be 'fixed'. In a real race, if the guy in > >front brakes too hard (or misses a gear), then he's going to be rammed by > >the car behind. > >I think you'll find that if you are driving well (in any racing sim) you > >won't have this problem. > >Iain > > Maybe. But, I doubt it. I rarely get rammed from behind in other sims. > In F1 2000 in happens far too often. Radio says "you collided with so > and so" when I did no such thing. > -- > Nos

On Wed, 24 May 2000 15:57:09 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>I'm not a native speaker, but isn't that the correct way to put it? I >mean, you did collide with the guy that rammed you, and he collided with >you as well, didn't he? It would be different if the radio guy said 'you >hit such and such', but to collide with someone in my opinion means >getting into contact with someone and does not imply any action on >behalf of the parties for this to happen. > >-Gregor

Collide means to hit something. If he says "I" collided with so and so then it's the same as saying I hit/crashed into so and so. The driver rammed me from behind so therefore I never actually collided with anything. If he said I was involved in a collision then I guess it is semantically correct. But, it would'nt hold up in a court of law because if you are rammed from behind then the rammer is *always* at fault. :-) -- Nos

Nos wrote:

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> > Collide means to hit something. If he says "I" collided with so and so > then it's the same as saying I hit/crashed into so and so. The driver > rammed me from behind so therefore I never actually collided with > anything. If he said I was involved in a collision then I guess it is > semantically correct. But, it would'nt hold up in a court of law > because if you are rammed from behind then the rammer is *always* at > fault. :-) > > -- > Nos

I still can't say I agree. I think saying that one car collided with another does not imply which car was responsible for the collision. I will need to look in a dictionary though. -Gregor

On Wed, 24 May 2000 16:51:53 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> wrote: >I still can't say I agree. I think saying that one car collided with >another does not imply which car was responsible for the collision. I >will need to look in a dictionary though. No need for that: Bruce, help! Andre > >-Gregor

On Wed, 24 May 2000 16:51:53 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >I still can't say I agree. I think saying that one car collided with >another does not imply which car was responsible for the collision. I >will need to look in a dictionary though. > >-Gregor Here's what it says in Websters online. Collide \Col*lide"\, v. t. To strike or dash against I never struck or dashed against anything. I was struck by the car behind me. I'm the struckee, not the strucker. Anyway, it's not a big deal. I'll just have to learn to take those corners faster. -- Nos

Nos wrote:

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> > On Wed, 24 May 2000 07:36:08 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >It doesn't necessarily need to be 'fixed'. In a real race, if the guy in > >front brakes too hard (or misses a gear), then he's going to be rammed by > >the car behind. > >I think you'll find that if you are driving well (in any racing sim) you > >won't have this problem. > >Iain > > Maybe. But, I doubt it. I rarely get rammed from behind in other sims. > In F1 2000 in happens far too often. Radio says "you collided with so > and so" when I did no such thing. > -- > Nos

Something else we need to keep in mind too. In most other sims, we can use our mirror without the framerate hit. So some of us are also more unaware of whats going on behind us too. Only makes the situation worse. But all in all, the AI have certainly improved. -- Chuck Kandler #70 K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 Your freedom's just a state of mind. --Gene Simmons From the song "War Machine", 1982

Andre Warringa wrote: > > You're right Pat, I turned the centering on and set it to 60%, ff is a > l-o-t better now. No GPL and Viper quality, but quite good. > Thanks! > Well damn! I've got the same wheel as you, but the centering spring set at 55% did *nothing* here. Maybe I'll try turning it up some more when I get home from work..... :-/ -- Chuck Kandler #70 K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 Your freedom's just a state of mind. --Gene Simmons From the song "War Machine", 1982

Nos wrote:

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> > Collide means to hit something. If he says "I" collided with so and so > then it's the same as saying I hit/crashed into so and so. The driver > rammed me from behind so therefore I never actually collided with > anything. If he said I was involved in a collision then I guess it is > semantically correct. But, it would'nt hold up in a court of law > because if you are rammed from behind then the rammer is *always* at > fault. :-)

Hehehe.....I don't think he's accusing you, just informing you that you were just involved in a "collision". So therefore, you "collided" with so-and-so. ;-) -- Chuck Kandler #70 K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 Your freedom's just a state of mind. --Gene Simmons From the song "War Machine", 1982

On Wed, 24 May 2000 16:37:06 GMT, Chuck Kandler <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Hehehe.....I don't think he's accusing you, just informing you that you >were just involved in a "collision". So therefore, you "collided" with >so-and-so. ;-) I guess so. But, the judge won't buy his story. :-) -- Nos

Don't have a clue what you mean by 'full of contradictions'! Doesn't happen with me in F12K any more than GPL or MGPRS2. That's all I'm saying. Iain Nos <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 24 May 2000 14:35:34 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >Happens a lot in GPL and MGPRS2 if you brake too early - that's closeracing

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> >for you! > >The message you mention is correct, you did collide with .... if you got > >rammed. > >Iain > > You're just full of contradictions today. :-) > I have played F1RS/MGPRS2 and GPL and I don't get rammed in the back > anywhere near as much as in F1 2000. It needs to be toned down. You > can't judge distance on a montitor like you can in real life so > concessions must be made. > > -- > Nos

>>In most other sims, we can use our mirror without the framerate hit. <<Ho, ho , ho! Very amusing, but some of us have no problem with frame rate and mirrors even at 1024. Iain

On Thu, 25 May 2000 08:53:20 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Don't have a clue what you mean by 'full of contradictions'! >Doesn't happen with me in F12K any more than GPL or MGPRS2. That's all I'm >saying. >Iain Just a joke Iain. I said that because almost every post I made that day you contradicted me. Anyway, don't get me wrong, I quite like F1 2000. -- Nos

Nos wrote:

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> > Here's what it says in Websters online. > > Collide \Col*lide"\, v. t. To strike or dash against > > I never struck or dashed against anything. I was struck by the car > behind me. I'm the struckee, not the strucker. Anyway, it's not a big > deal. I'll just have to learn to take those corners faster. > -- > Nos

You should know I am pursuing this discussion because I find it fun and not because I would want to get into any disputes. To strike against something or to strike something, I guess there is the same difference as we discussed before. The first IMHO again doesn't imply the action of any party, while the second clearly implies a 'strucker' (good word BTW). Where are all those English language graduates when one needs them ;) ? -Gregor

In article <d%4X4.2019$[email hidden]>, "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote: >>>In most other sims, we can use our mirror without the framerate hit. << >Ho, ho , ho! >Very amusing, but some of us have no problem with frame rate and mirrors >even at 1024. Good for them! Alas, I'm not one of them. Admittedly, on a "lowly" c300a/450 with V3. Typically, mirrors reduce my varying framerate of 16-25 by 5 or 6. That's when there are a few cars around. The ~16 occurs on most tracks front straights. 25+ on more remote parts of the track. Turn mirrors off when running alone and framerate might go from a 25-30 all the way up past 50. At anything below 20-25, I sense a delay in reactions. The start of any race is an exercise in frustration with the battle to get traction, a bunch of AI cars nipping at my heals, and the inevitable delays and framerate stalls. After that (if I survive), and the first couple of turns, things are usually smooth enough.

On Thu, 25 May 2000 11:12:56 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >You should know I am pursuing this discussion because I find it fun and >not because I would want to get into any disputes. To strike against >something or to strike something, I guess there is the same difference >as we discussed before. The first IMHO again doesn't imply the action of >any party, while the second clearly implies a 'strucker' (good word >BTW). Hmm..now your confusing me. :-) Here's how I see it. He collided into me and I didn't collide into him. Therefore; the twat on the radio should say, "you were struck by so and so". >Where are all those English language graduates when one needs them ;) ? English is a bastardized language anyway so I wouldn't pay any attention to those guys. :-) -- Nos

On Thu, 25 May 2000 11:18:42 GMT, [email hidden] thus spoke:

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>Good for them! Alas, I'm not one of them. Admittedly, on a "lowly" >c300a/450 with V3. Typically, mirrors reduce my varying framerate of 16-25 by >5 or 6. That's when there are a few cars around. The ~16 occurs on most >tracks front straights. 25+ on more remote parts of the track. Turn mirrors >off when running alone and framerate might go from a 25-30 all the way up past >50. At anything below 20-25, I sense a delay in reactions. The start of any >race is an exercise in frustration with the battle to get traction, a bunch of >AI cars nipping at my heals, and the inevitable delays and framerate stalls. >After that (if I survive), and the first couple of turns, things are usually >smooth enough.

Have you tried turning other options off besides the mirrors. I have a P3 500 which isn't much more than yours and I was able to get a decent frame rate by tunring other options off. I'll even run at 640x480 if it will allow me to keep the low detail mirrors on. I only allow 8 cars at a time to be rendered also. I admit it is a bit slow at the start, but once it thins out it is very playable for me. -- Nos

Nos wrote: > > Hmm..now your confusing me. :-) Here's how I see it. He collided into > me and I didn't collide into him. Therefore; the twat on the radio > should say, "you were struck by so and so". > Yes, he collided into you and you didn't collide into him. But you collided with him and he collided with you as well. And the whole debate starts all over again :-). -Gregor

Nos wrote:

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> > Have you tried turning other options off besides the mirrors. I have a > P3 500 which isn't much more than yours and I was able to get a decent > frame rate by tunring other options off. I'll even run at 640x480 if > it will allow me to keep the low detail mirrors on. I only allow 8 > cars at a time to be rendered also. I admit it is a bit slow at the > start, but once it thins out it is very playable for me. > -- > Nos

What works for me is setting the other vehicle detail to low and LOD distance to medium. If this doesn't look good enough, try the reverse (other vehicle detail medium and LOD distance low), but this will loose some frames. The first variant does allow me to run most other options on at 1024x768, and it is the best compromise IMHO. Oh, a P3 450 and Voodoo 3 here. -Gregor

On Thu, 25 May 2000 11:12:56 +0200, Gregor Veble Hmm..now your confusing me. :-) Here's how I see it. He collided into me and I didn't collide into him. Therefore; the *** on the radio should say, "you were struck by so and so". English is a bastardized language anyway so I wouldn't pay any attention to those guys. :-) -- Nos

On Thu, 25 May 2000 13:51:57 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >But you >collided with him This is where we are having a bit of trouble. I never collided with him. He collided into me - probably deliberately too. SCGT is by the same developers and in that game the AI cars will sometimes deliberately try to run you off the road when you try to pass them. This is supposed to be a gentleman's sport and not wrestling on wheels. -- Nos

Iain Mackenzie wrote: > > >>In most other sims, we can use our mirror without the framerate hit. << > Ho, ho , ho! > Very amusing, but some of us have no problem with frame rate and mirrors > even at 1024. > Iain Hopefully I'll be in *that* boat soon myself. Looking at either 650 or 700 mhz PIII as well as V5 by end of summer. But my 466/V3 3000 needs the help of shutting down mirrors. I just think that *those that do complain* of ramming by the AI, may need to consider whether they are in the same boat as myself, thereby possibly complicating matters for themselves by cutting off the AI. Since you neither have an AI ramming problem, nor need to shut down your mirrors, you kind of help make my case for me in reverse. ;-) -- Chuck Kandler #70 K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 Your freedom's just a state of mind. --Gene Simmons From the song "War Machine", 1982

Nos wrote:

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> > This is where we are having a bit of trouble. I never collided with > him. He collided into me - probably deliberately too. SCGT is by the > same developers and in that game the AI cars will sometimes > deliberately try to run you off the road when you try to pass them. > This is supposed to be a gentleman's sport and not wrestling on > wheels. > > -- > Nos

Aww, this is getting tiring :). Anyway, back to the topic, the AI are a bit overagressive, I agree, especially for openwheelers. BTW, did you read Fisichela had quite a flying today at testing in Valencia, I think, with his Benetton touching Trulli's wheels. This is one reason why openwheelers will be slightly less agressive than what is depicted in the sim. But if you take the corners fast enough and, when side by side, you also try to prevent an accident rather than try to fight for position at all costs, you will not collide as often (actually, the AI won't collide into you :) ). This does not apply to immediate starts, of course, when there are too many cars around for the AI to handle, it seems. -Gregor

Nos <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 25 May 2000 13:51:57 +0200, Gregor Veble > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > > >But you > >collided with him > > This is where we are having a bit of trouble. I never collided with > him. He collided into me - probably deliberately too. SCGT is by the > same developers and in that game the AI cars will sometimes > deliberately try to run you off the road when you try to pass them. > This is supposed to be a gentleman's sport and not wrestling on > wheels.

Perhaps you should watch more F1 races and pay special attention to Michael Schumacher. Especially when he trys to take people out deliberately. There was JV a few years ago where he was stripped of all championship points for the entire year after the last race. And then a few weeks ago against his brother. -- [email hidden] > > -- > Nos

This is my hero you're talking about here, Greg! The JV incident yes, but the Ralf one was not an attempt to take him out, just block him so that RB could get through. It was a superb piece of driving and perfectly fair. Iain Greg Cisko <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jB9X4.51$[email hidden]...

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> Nos <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Thu, 25 May 2000 13:51:57 +0200, Gregor Veble > > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > > > > > >But you > > >collided with him > > > > This is where we are having a bit of trouble. I never collided with > > him. He collided into me - probably deliberately too. SCGT is by the > > same developers and in that game the AI cars will sometimes > > deliberately try to run you off the road when you try to pass them. > > This is supposed to be a gentleman's sport and not wrestling on > > wheels. > > Perhaps you should watch more F1 races and pay special attention > to Michael Schumacher. Especially when he trys to take people out > deliberately. There was JV a few years ago where he was stripped > of all championship points for the entire year after the last race. And > then a few weeks ago against his brother. > > -- > > [email hidden] > > > > > > > -- > > Nos > >

On Thu, 25 May 2000 08:08:36 -0500, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Perhaps you should watch more F1 races and pay special attention >to Michael Schumacher. Especially when he trys to take people out >deliberately. There was JV a few years ago where he was stripped >of all championship points for the entire year after the last race. And >then a few weeks ago against his brother. I won't comment on the JV incident, but come on, the "brotherly love"-move at Barcelona was beautiful, rather ingenious IMHO. That's racing. :) /Magnus

Nos wrote:

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> > On Thu, 25 May 2000 11:12:56 +0200, Gregor Veble > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >You should know I am pursuing this discussion because I find it fun and > >not because I would want to get into any disputes. To strike against > >something or to strike something, I guess there is the same difference > >as we discussed before. The first IMHO again doesn't imply the action of > >any party, while the second clearly implies a 'strucker' (good word > >BTW). > > Hmm..now your confusing me. :-) Here's how I see it. He collided into > me and I didn't collide into him. Therefore; the twat on the radio > should say, "you were struck by so and so". > > >Where are all those English language graduates when one needs them ;) ? > > English is a bastardized language anyway so I wouldn't pay any > attention to those guys. :-)

Ser arr too many non-natif English speakink peeple arround, satt's why... -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

On Thu, 25 May 2000 15:01:10 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Aww, this is getting tiring :). Yes, I think we've done at least three complete circles on this issue. :-) >Anyway, back to the topic, the AI are a bit overagressive, I agree, >especially for openwheelers. BTW, did you read Fisichela had quite a >flying today at testing in Valencia, I think, with his Benetton touching >Trulli's wheels. No, haven't read the news today. I'll look for it though.

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>This is one reason why openwheelers will be slightly >less agressive than what is depicted in the sim. But if you take the >corners fast enough and, when side by side, you also try to prevent an >accident rather than try to fight for position at all costs, you will >not collide as often (actually, the AI won't collide into you :) ). This >does not apply to immediate starts, of course, when there are too many >cars around for the AI to handle, it seems.

Well, I'll try not to let them collide into me so often. :-) -- Nos

On Thu, 25 May 2000 08:08:36 -0500, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Perhaps you should watch more F1 races and pay special attention >to Michael Schumacher. Especially when he trys to take people out >deliberately. There was JV a few years ago where he was stripped >of all championship points for the entire year after the last race. And >then a few weeks ago against his brother. I knownit happens, but not at every damn turn in every damn race. -- Nos

On Fri, 26 May 2000 07:21:04 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>Come on Nos, now you're being rather silly! If it happened to you on every >turn in every race, I doubt if you be playing F12K at all. It doesn't >happen like that, it seems that you need to improve your driving skills - >but we've been down this line before. >Iain > >

OK, I was exaggerating. BTW, I'm in second place in the season so far. -- Nos

> I knownit happens, but not at every damn turn in every damn race. > Nos Come on Nos, now you're being rather silly! If it happened to you on every turn in every race, I doubt if you be playing F12K at all. It doesn't happen like that, it seems that you need to improve your driving skills - but we've been down this line before. Iain

Greg Cisko wrote:

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> > Perhaps you should watch more F1 races and pay special attention > to Michael Schumacher. Especially when he trys to take people out > deliberately. There was JV a few years ago where he was stripped > of all championship points for the entire year after the last race. And > then a few weeks ago against his brother. > > -- > > [email hidden] > > > > > -- > > Nos

While he did collide into (:-) JV and Damin Hill (still at Benetton) on purpose, the Ralf incident was, as is often the case, a media product. It was quite clear to me while watching that he had terrible problems with the handling and it all looked like he washed out at that point, which is quite an common thing to happen when you fight for positions and enter a corner a bit faster than you would just to guard your position. The media just like controversy so they've blown up the issue, simply because Barichello took advantage of the situation, that's all. -Gregor

On Fri, 26 May 2000 12:00:26 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>While he did collide into (:-) JV and Damin Hill (still at Benetton) on >purpose, the Ralf incident was, as is often the case, a media product. >It was quite clear to me while watching that he had terrible problems >with the handling and it all looked like he washed out at that point, >which is quite an common thing to happen when you fight for positions >and enter a corner a bit faster than you would just to guard your >position. The media just like controversy so they've blown up the issue, >simply because Barichello took advantage of the situation, that's all. > >-Gregor

Well, I would hope that is the case and you are probably right that he didn't do it deliberately. Racing is dangerous enough already and doing things like that is reckless endangerment. I don't watch much racing on TV, but I should start watching more (except Nascar) because I do like it. Thing is I don't like having to get out of bed at 8:00 am on a Sunday to watch a European F1 race. Meant to get up for the last one, but slept in. :-) -- Nos

On Thu, 25 May 2000 15:01:10 +0200, Gregor Veble Yes, I think we've done at least three complete circles on this issue. :-) No, haven't read the news today. I'll look for it though. Well, I'll try not to let them collide into me so often. :-) -- Nos

thus spoke: I knownit happens, but not at every damn turn in every damn race. -- Nos