Re: News Article about GPL's F3's

Ken McDaniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8gkc2n$htg$[email hidden]... [snip] > > As far as cornering ability, the F3 cars of GPL are not that far off the > rest of the classes with the proper setup. Your comment about conservation > of energy is spot on. It is possible to finish above F2 cars in an F3 > providing they make enough mistakes and the F3 makes none..... Ahhhh the > challenge to be perfect.... The Ring is a good example. Straight speed anf3 > will not have, but with the proper line, it is possible to close on evenan > F1 car through certain parts of the track.... There is nothing more funthat > worrying an F2 or F1 car with an F3!! > Speedvision recently broadcast a race from the Goodwood Festival of Speed in which 1967 era F1 and F3 cars were racing against one another. One thing that really caught my attention was how well some of the F3 cars were doing, mixing it up with the best of the F1 runners. In fact, I think one of the F3 cars got a podium finish. S.

There's a fantastic article about GPL's F3's in the "Race Reports" section of the Zero Gee News. hehe, didn't know Mark had it in him, damn that's a good one Mark :) ZGN---> http://bovineracing.com/zgnews.htm

A very nice article. I'm surprised that nobody ever mentions the fact that the F3s don't handle as well as the other classes either. They're more slippery. I don't think I'm the only one who has noticed this. The assumption would be that they are just under powered F1s. (I wish they were.) But if you check your speed through some tight corners in an F1 and then with an F3, you'll see you can't match it. Nor can you get back on the gas as quickly without spinning out. -- Slot www.slottweak.com Tweaks & Reviews "Mike Barlow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oR0X4.382$[email hidden]... > There's a fantastic article about GPL's F3's in the "Race Reports" > section of the Zero Gee News. hehe, didn't know Mark had it in him, damn > that's a good one Mark :) > ZGN---> http://bovineracing.com/zgnews.htm > >

"GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1U2X4.12198$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> A very nice article. I'm surprised that nobody ever mentions the fact that > the F3s don't handle as well as the other classes either. They're more > slippery. I don't think I'm the only one who has noticed this. The > assumption would be that they are just under powered F1s. (I wish they > were.) But if you check your speed through some tight corners in an F1 and > then with an F3, you'll > see you can't match it. Nor can you get back on the gas as quickly without > spinning out. >

Perhaps I'm in the minority then? I glad they arn't just underpowered F1s. Remember, originally the "trainers" were going to be acurate simulations of F3s and F2s. It didn't work out that way, but having them just be underpowered F1s would be just horrible in my opinion. I'm dissapointed they aren't even more like they were intended. The key factor here is that the lower classes ran different tires, with a lower cf, just as lower classes do now. People running F3 in real life just couldn't fit the tire bill the way the F1 teams could. Remember, in those days F3 racers were people who had mortgaged anything they could to buy a car, bought used clothes for their kids, ate cold tuna fish out of the can at race meets while sleeping under their open trailers because that's all they could afford. So, the "trainers" in GPL are apparently reduced in power by simple expediant of rev limiting, and the tires * have a lower cf.* This is realistic. Realism is why we play GPL, no? You'll find this mentioned in Steve Smith's original article on F2s. One of the neat things about the F3s is that they behave much like a modern FF on street tires would, which is how they race them in Europe. This means that GPL is actually a MODERN sim for exactly the class of car any of us could actually dream about buying and racing. So long as we like cold tuna fish out of the can and the great outdoors. Here's a tip for you though, even though the F3s can't pull the same gs in a turn that an F1 can, they DO have considerably less power. If you stop thinking about them as slow F1s and adapt to what they really are you'll find that you can get on the gas MUCH earlier in medium to fast corners with FAR less chance of spinning the rear wheels. And, of course, the REAL trick to driving F3s is managing inertia, not power.

Hey Kev, Looking back at my post, I see it wasn't very clear. I race F3s almost exclusively now. The point I failed to make is that I consider them very challenging and harder to drive than the F1s. Well, maybe not harder, but difficult in a different way and every bit as challenging. When I first got GPL (not that long ago) I posted that I tried the Trainers and couldn't do a lap so I quickly switched to F1s with much better results. Thanks to the support of this group, I was pulling 1:30s at Monza by the end of my 1st week (about 12 hours). Some may remember that I despaired at my times because I knew people were running in the 1:26s and 1:27s. Boy, I sure was green back then. -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com "Kevin Gavitt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5zbX4.29$[email hidden]... > > "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:1U2X4.12198$[email hidden]... > > A very nice article. I'm surprised that nobody ever mentions the fact that > > the F3s don't handle as well as the other classes either. They're more > > slippery. I don't think I'm the only one who has noticed this. The > > assumption would be that they are just under powered F1s. (I wish they > > were.) But if you check your speed through some tight corners in an F1 and > > then with an F3, you'll > > see you can't match it. Nor can you get back on the gas as quickly without > > spinning out. > > > > Perhaps I'm in the minority then? I glad they arn't just underpowered F1s. > Remember, originally the "trainers" were going to be acurate simulations of > F3s and F2s. It didn't work out that way, but having them just be > underpowered F1s would be just horrible in my opinion. I'm dissapointed they > aren't even more like they were intended. > > The key factor here is that the lower classes ran different tires, with a > lower cf, just as lower classes do now. People running F3 in real life just > couldn't fit the tire bill the way the F1 teams could. Remember, in those > days F3 racers were people who had mortgaged anything they could to buy a > car, bought used clothes for their kids, ate cold tuna fish out of the can > at race meets while sleeping under their open trailers because that's all > they could afford. > > So, the "trainers" in GPL are apparently reduced in power by simple > expediant of rev limiting, and the tires * have a lower cf.* > > This is realistic. Realism is why we play GPL, no? > > You'll find this mentioned in Steve Smith's original article on F2s. > > One of the neat things about the F3s is that they behave much like a modern > FF on street tires would, which is how they race them in Europe. This means > that GPL is actually a MODERN sim for exactly the class of car any of us > could actually dream about buying and racing. So long as we like cold tuna > fish out of the can and the great outdoors. > > Here's a tip for you though, even though the F3s can't pull the same gs in > a turn that an F1 can, they DO have considerably less power. If you stop > thinking about them as slow F1s and adapt to what they really are you'll > find that you can get on the gas MUCH earlier in medium to fast corners with > FAR less chance of spinning the rear wheels. > > And, of course, the REAL trick to driving F3s is managing inertia, not > power. > >

Good point Kevin. You only failed to mention one thing. What were F3 cars in 1967 were F1 just a few years earlier. The FF series you speak of in today's racing is a fantastic class from the spectator point of view. It must be just as fun to drive. I get to see these cars about every two weeks during the summer months. It is some of the best racing around to watch. The usually group these cars with FM, FC and FA. ( at least in this region). It makes for some spectacular multi class racing with the FF cars often ahead of faster cars. As far as cornering ability, the F3 cars of GPL are not that far off the rest of the classes with the proper setup. Your comment about conservation of energy is spot on. It is possible to finish above F2 cars in an F3 providing they make enough mistakes and the F3 makes none..... Ahhhh the challenge to be perfect.... The Ring is a good example. Straight speed an f3 will not have, but with the proper line, it is possible to close on even an F1 car through certain parts of the track.... There is nothing more fun that worrying an F2 or F1 car with an F3!! -- Ken http://BovineRacing.com [email hidden]

"Ken McDaniel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8gkc2n$htg$[email hidden]... > Good point Kevin. You only failed to mention one thing. What were F3 carsin > 1967 were F1 just a few years earlier. The FF series you speak of intoday's > racing is a fantastic class from the spectator point of view. It must be > just as fun to drive. I get to see these cars about every two weeks during > the summer months. It is some of the best racing around to watch. The > usually group these cars with FM, FC and FA. ( at least in this region).It > makes for some spectacular multi class racing with the FF cars often ahead > of faster cars. > Actually, you would have been closer to the mark if you had said the F2s. Remember that while the early 60's F1 cars were only 1.5 litres they WERE GP engines and thus put out in the neighborhood of 200 hp, like the F2s in GPL. The GPL F3s only put out about 100 hp. Again, just about in the range of a modern amatuer class formula car. I think I'm in the minority again, GPL F2 fanatics aside, and thought the move back to larger capacity cars in F1 was a mistake. I LOVE the "tiddlers" and they were certainly just as much of a challenge to win in as the 3 litre cars, maybe more so. Oh yeah, your comments would also have been more inline if we had been discussing the 1.5s in the first place. With the small capacity motor F1s the chassis were more suitable for a wider range of applications, and frequently essentially the same chassis would be used for FJ right up to F1. The 3 litre cars broke this. You just couldn't ask an FJ chassis to handle the size, weight, and power of an F1, and an F1 Chassis based on an FJ would have been suicidal. If you can find it pick up copy of Costin and Phipps' " Racing and Sports Car Chassis Design". Some great stuff in there about these cars. I'm just old enough to remember these lovely little beasties and I reaquaint myself with them at vintage meets every chance I get. I've been looking forward to the release of Skip Barber Racing as well, more the Barber Dodge "FFs" then the Dodge Pro cars. Heck, I even love the tiddlers so much I wish someone would do an FV sim.

(snip) You only failed to mention one thing. What were F3 cars in 1967 were F1 just a few years earlier. (unsnip) If you are referring to the 1.5 litre F1 Formula you have your facts somewhat awry. The chassis were different and the engines were different (I've yet to see a F3 car with a 1.5 litre Coventry Climax or Ferrari V8!). Even the wheels and tyres were different. About the only similarity was the fact that they had 4 wheels and one seat. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Ken McDaniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8gkc2n$htg$[email hidden]... > Good point Kevin. You only failed to mention one thing. What were F3 cars in > 1967 were F1 just a few years earlier. The FF series you speak of in today's > racing is a fantastic class from the spectator point of view. It must be > just as fun to drive. I get to see these cars about every two weeks during > the summer months. It is some of the best racing around to watch. The > usually group these cars with FM, FC and FA. ( at least in this region). It > makes for some spectacular multi class racing with the FF cars often ahead > of faster cars. > > As far as cornering ability, the F3 cars of GPL are not that far off the > rest of the classes with the proper setup. Your comment about conservation > of energy is spot on. It is possible to finish above F2 cars in an F3 > providing they make enough mistakes and the F3 makes none..... Ahhhh the > challenge to be perfect.... The Ring is a good example. Straight speed an f3 > will not have, but with the proper line, it is possible to close on even an > F1 car through certain parts of the track.... There is nothing more fun that > worrying an F2 or F1 car with an F3!! > > > -- > Ken > http://BovineRacing.com > [email hidden] > >