Ok, so a new Open Wheel sim from Papy isn't that far fetched

Papy may, in the next few years, be working on the next level for their simulation engines. Sierra might not want to put their bread and butter NASCAR games into an untested engine. So they may decide to do a CART game to be the basis for a news system, get the bugs out, (Release a couple N4 rehashes yearly), get a modest profit from the sim open wheelers out there. And then when everything is ready to go, they'll unleash the new engine on the Nascar series. That's not THAT far fetched, and I'm not really a CART fan anyways, so I'm not being delusional. And Besides, papy has ALWAYS released a open wheel sim between their NASCAR major titles (99 and 3 aren't). Times have changed, we'll see.

Kai Fuller <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YGFX4.130239$[email hidden]... > Papy may, in the next few years, be working on the next level for their > simulation engines. Sierra might not want to put their bread and butter > NASCAR games into an untested engine. Yes, and a CART sim would be perfect! > > So they may decide to do a CART game to be the basis for a news system,get > the bugs out, (Release a couple N4 rehashes yearly), get a modest profit > from the sim open wheelers out there. And then when everything is ready to > go, they'll unleash the new engine on the Nascar series. > > That's not THAT far fetched, and I'm not really a CART fan anyways, so I'm > not being delusional. No, sounds great so far! > > And Besides, papy has ALWAYS released a open wheel sim between theirNASCAR > major titles (99 and 3 aren't). Times have changed, we'll see. >Kai, you make a great point and as you point out, t5imes have changed. I think Papy is taking a wait-n-see attitude with the whole Cart/Irl mess and doesn't want to take sides or ruffle feathers, or maybe they feel there's just not that much interest. I seriously doubt that because if you check the rasc and rasi newsgroups there are loads of passionate fans out there and I'm sure alot are sim racers. I would love a new open wheel sim (Oh God, I said it! On the GPL newsgroup! What was I thinking!) I just remember the late evenings I spent running ICR2 once I got Indy from ICR1 converted. Man, I was hooked! -Brian www.brianmclernon.com

I think we are going about this in the wrong way. All the begging and pleading with Havas/Sierra/Papyrus just hasn't worked. Perhaps it is time to approach this from another direction. CART needs ratings, tickets sold, sponsors satisfied. Why not have CART pay PAPYRUS to make a sim? CART could view it as advertising, the sponsors could all kick in and get tons of ingame mentions. Heck they could clutter up the menu screens with Kmart, Havoline, Hollywood all they want. If CART put up the cash for a GPL/N4 quality CART sim they would have a product that could reach tons of computer users. They could GIVE the thing away at the tracks...they could use it not as a profit making venture in itself, but as a draw for new fans, for re-igniteing the old fans who have fallen away. They could tie it in with current races and have special lan events at the tracks. The possiblities for expanding CARTs customer base would be certainly be enticing. ESPN or ABC or TNT or whomever gets the CART broadcasts could be tied in also, include an option that takes you right to the ESPN website, etc etc. Somebody get me Andrew Craig's phone #! Are ya listening Eric? dave henrie Kai Fuller wrote:

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> > Papy may, in the next few years, be working on the next level for their > simulation engines. Sierra might not want to put their bread and butter > NASCAR games into an untested engine. > > So they may decide to do a CART game to be the basis for a news system, get > the bugs out, (Release a couple N4 rehashes yearly), get a modest profit > from the sim open wheelers out there. And then when everything is ready to > go, they'll unleash the new engine on the Nascar series. > > That's not THAT far fetched, and I'm not really a CART fan anyways, so I'm > not being delusional. > > And Besides, papy has ALWAYS released a open wheel sim between their NASCAR > major titles (99 and 3 aren't). Times have changed, we'll see.

How about a CART \ IRL Sim? the cars aren't that different... right right I know.... :) Cart and IRL would never go for it, but they could go for a MGPRS model, where they get all the tracks and the "Teams" and then we get to bring it up to speed. \Brian McLernon <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CpGX4.12029$[email hidden]...

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> > Kai Fuller <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:YGFX4.130239$[email hidden]... > > Papy may, in the next few years, be working on the next level for their > > simulation engines. Sierra might not want to put their bread and butter > > NASCAR games into an untested engine. > > Yes, and a CART sim would be perfect! > > > > So they may decide to do a CART game to be the basis for a news system, > get > > the bugs out, (Release a couple N4 rehashes yearly), get a modest profit > > from the sim open wheelers out there. And then when everything is ready

to > > go, they'll unleash the new engine on the Nascar series. > > > > That's not THAT far fetched, and I'm not really a CART fan anyways, soI'm

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> > not being delusional. > > No, sounds great so far! > > > > And Besides, papy has ALWAYS released a open wheel sim between their > NASCAR > > major titles (99 and 3 aren't). Times have changed, we'll see. > > > Kai, you make a great point and as you point out, t5imes have changed. I > think Papy is taking a wait-n-see attitude with the whole Cart/Irl mess

and

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> doesn't want to take sides or ruffle feathers, or maybe they feel there's > just not that much interest. I seriously doubt that because if you check > the rasc and rasi newsgroups there are loads of passionate fans out there > and I'm sure alot are sim racers. I would love a new open wheel sim (Oh > God, I said it! On the GPL newsgroup! What was I thinking!) I just > remember the late evenings I spent running ICR2 once I got Indy from ICR1 > converted. Man, I was hooked! > > -Brian > > www.brianmclernon.com > > >

In article <YGFX4.130239$[email hidden]>, "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Papy may, in the next few years, be working on the next level for their >simulation engines. Sierra might not want to put their bread and butter >NASCAR games into an untested engine. > >So they may decide to do a CART game to be the basis for a news system, get >the bugs out, (Release a couple N4 rehashes yearly), get a modest profit >from the sim open wheelers out there. And then when everything is ready to >go, they'll unleash the new engine on the Nascar series. > >That's not THAT far fetched, and I'm not really a CART fan anyways, so I'm >not being delusional. >

Not far fetched at all, as I have always thought that was the exact intent of GPL. They were not expecting great sales numbers, merely a proof of concept of a versatile new physics engine. Don McCorkle

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> I think we are going about this in the wrong way. All the begging and >pleading with Havas/Sierra/Papyrus just hasn't worked. Perhaps it is >time to approach this from another direction. > CART needs ratings, tickets sold, sponsors satisfied. Why not have >CART pay PAPYRUS to make a sim? CART could view it as advertising, the >sponsors could all kick in and get tons of ingame mentions. Heck they >could clutter up the menu screens with Kmart, Havoline, Hollywood all >they want. > If CART put up the cash for a GPL/N4 quality CART sim they would have >a product that could reach tons of computer users. They could GIVE the >thing away at the tracks...they could use it not as a profit making >venture in itself, but as a draw for new fans, for re-igniteing the old >fans who have fallen away. They could tie it in with current races and >have special lan events at the tracks. The possiblities for expanding >CARTs customer base would be certainly be enticing. > ESPN or ABC or TNT or whomever gets the CART broadcasts could be tied >in also, include an option that takes you right to the ESPN website, etc >etc. > Somebody get me Andrew Craig's phone #! Are ya listening Eric? >dave henrie > >Kai Fuller wrote: >> >> Papy may, in the next few years, be working on the next level for their >> simulation engines. Sierra might not want to put their bread and butter >> NASCAR games into an untested engine. >> >> So they may decide to do a CART game to be the basis for a news system, get >> the bugs out, (Release a couple N4 rehashes yearly), get a modest profit >> from the sim open wheelers out there. And then when everything is ready to >> go, they'll unleash the new engine on the Nascar series. >> >> That's not THAT far fetched, and I'm not really a CART fan anyways, so I'm >> not being delusional. >> >> And Besides, papy has ALWAYS released a open wheel sim between their NASCAR >> major titles (99 and 3 aren't). Times have changed, we'll see. > > >

CART rules. I just went to my first CART race at Nazareth. We need a new CART sim!!!!! How can we get in touch with CART PR and suggest this to them?? You are right, OUr cries to PAPY are falling on deaf ears. We need to speak to CART. How do we do that??

Yes, we are going about this in the wrong way. Depending on one firm (Sierra/Papy) isn't going to get the sim racing community what it wants. Yes, they have developed some very exciting and revolutionary products to be sure, and in some ways have created this market niche, but they should not be seen as the only game in town. Other developers, like the West Bros., are hungry and agressive in seeking the "King of Sims" crown, and although Papy is top of the heap right now, they, and others, will get much closer soon. From what I have read of WSC, it should be quite possible to create a CART carset for it. The real-world physics between a WSC and Indy Car aren't that terribly different, so it ought to be fairly believable. Designing and editing tracks will hopefully be easier (ala Sports Car GT) than the Papy sims. Who knows? If the Wests are successful with WSC and can be persuaded that a CART sim would have a market, we might just get our CART sim. I am however, skeptical that Sierra/Papy can be persuaded to divert resources from the extremely sucessful and profitable Nascar series into a less appealing venture. This should be sufficient motivation for all of us to support the efforts of promising developers as fully as we can., and to encourage the purchase of their products. -V -waiting for the day when Juan Montoya can drive his own car in a sim. On Sat, 27 May 2000 03:56:24 GMT, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> I think we are going about this in the wrong way. All the begging and >pleading with Havas/Sierra/Papyrus just hasn't worked. Perhaps it is >time to approach this from another direction. > CART needs ratings, tickets sold, sponsors satisfied. Why not have >CART pay PAPYRUS to make a sim? CART could view it as advertising, the >sponsors could all kick in and get tons of ingame mentions. Heck they >could clutter up the menu screens with Kmart, Havoline, Hollywood all >they want. > If CART put up the cash for a GPL/N4 quality CART sim they would have >a product that could reach tons of computer users. They could GIVE the >thing away at the tracks...they could use it not as a profit making >venture in itself, but as a draw for new fans, for re-igniteing the old >fans who have fallen away. They could tie it in with current races and >have special lan events at the tracks. The possiblities for expanding >CARTs customer base would be certainly be enticing. > ESPN or ABC or TNT or whomever gets the CART broadcasts could be tied >in also, include an option that takes you right to the ESPN website, etc >etc. > Somebody get me Andrew Craig's phone #! Are ya listening Eric? >dave henrie > >Kai Fuller wrote: >> >> Papy may, in the next few years, be working on the next level for their >> simulation engines. Sierra might not want to put their bread and butter >> NASCAR games into an untested engine. >> >> So they may decide to do a CART game to be the basis for a news system, get >> the bugs out, (Release a couple N4 rehashes yearly), get a modest profit >> from the sim open wheelers out there. And then when everything is ready to >> go, they'll unleash the new engine on the Nascar series. >> >> That's not THAT far fetched, and I'm not really a CART fan anyways, so I'm >> not being delusional. >> >> And Besides, papy has ALWAYS released a open wheel sim between their NASCAR >> major titles (99 and 3 aren't). Times have changed, we'll see.

Great idea...one I have long espoused and promoted. Check out Andrew Craig's roles in CART marketing and CART management, though, before calling him. You may find that he has an inherent interest in these sorts of issues that is not likely compatible with our interest in seeing a new CART sim. Too bad, because I do think it would be a great way to promote the series with younger computer-literate fans. Sort of like the Daytona demo on a much grander scale. Also, I am sure they could pay Papy the whole cost of doing the sim out of a sliver of their marketing budget. Marc. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I think we are going about this in the wrong way. All the begging and > pleading with Havas/Sierra/Papyrus just hasn't worked. Perhaps it is > time to approach this from another direction. > CART needs ratings, tickets sold, sponsors satisfied. Why not have > CART pay PAPYRUS to make a sim? CART could view it as advertising, the > sponsors could all kick in and get tons of ingame mentions. Heck they > could clutter up the menu screens with Kmart, Havoline, Hollywood all > they want. > If CART put up the cash for a GPL/N4 quality CART sim they would have > a product that could reach tons of computer users. They could GIVE the > thing away at the tracks...they could use it not as a profit making > venture in itself, but as a draw for new fans, for re-igniteing the old > fans who have fallen away. They could tie it in with current races and > have special lan events at the tracks. The possiblities for expanding > CARTs customer base would be certainly be enticing. > ESPN or ABC or TNT or whomever gets the CART broadcasts could be tied > in also, include an option that takes you right to the ESPN website, etc > etc. > Somebody get me Andrew Craig's phone #! Are ya listening Eric? > dave henrie > > Kai Fuller wrote: > > > > Papy may, in the next few years, be working on the next level for their > > simulation engines. Sierra might not want to put their bread and butter > > NASCAR games into an untested engine. > > > > So they may decide to do a CART game to be the basis for a news system,

get > > the bugs out, (Release a couple N4 rehashes yearly), get a modest profit > > from the sim open wheelers out there. And then when everything is readyto > > go, they'll unleash the new engine on the Nascar series. > > > > That's not THAT far fetched, and I'm not really a CART fan anyways, soI'm > > not being delusional. > > > > And Besides, papy has ALWAYS released a open wheel sim between theirNASCAR > > major titles (99 and 3 aren't). Times have changed, we'll see.

On 28 May 2000 12:35:04 GMT, [email hidden] (Woodie 83) wrote: snip >Not far fetched at all, as I have always thought that was the exact intent of >GPL. They were not expecting great sales numbers, merely a proof of concept of >a versatile new physics engine. > > >Don McCorkle I think the CART marketing idea is fantastic. I don't think Sierra will allow any more GPL type sales figures, which a CART sim would produce. Too bad Papyrus can't seem to crank out anything but bland NASCAR X rehashes lately. C'mon boys! Aren't you getting bored with the same ol stuff? Regards, Rick Carlson

Richard Carlson <[email hidden]> writes:

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> On 28 May 2000 12:35:04 GMT, [email hidden] (Woodie 83) wrote: > > snip > > >Not far fetched at all, as I have always thought that was the exact intent of > >GPL. They were not expecting great sales numbers, merely a proof of concept of > >a versatile new physics engine. > > > > > >Don McCorkle > > I think the CART marketing idea is fantastic. I don't think Sierra > will allow any more GPL type sales figures, which a CART sim would > produce. Too bad Papyrus can't seem to crank out anything but bland > NASCAR X rehashes lately. C'mon boys! Aren't you getting bored with > the same ol stuff?

A CART sim would sell more than GPL, but how much ? Well, put a sticker on it saying "Race the two latest Indy500 winners!", and it will sell heaps. :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

yeah, and like I said Sierra doesn't necessarily want to risk putting out a prototype physics engine with NASCAR, there are a lot of things that go into the bottom line, so it's not that far fetched Richard. And also "aren't you tired of doing the same old stuff" you might look at NASCAR 4. Olav K. Malmin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Richard Carlson <[email hidden]> writes: > > > On 28 May 2000 12:35:04 GMT, [email hidden] (Woodie 83) wrote: > > > > snip > > > > >Not far fetched at all, as I have always thought that was the exact

intent of > > >GPL. They were not expecting great sales numbers, merely a proof ofconcept of

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> > >a versatile new physics engine. > > > > > > > > >Don McCorkle > > > > I think the CART marketing idea is fantastic. I don't think Sierra > > will allow any more GPL type sales figures, which a CART sim would > > produce. Too bad Papyrus can't seem to crank out anything but bland > > NASCAR X rehashes lately. C'mon boys! Aren't you getting bored with > > the same ol stuff? > > A CART sim would sell more than GPL, but how much ? Well, put a > sticker on it saying "Race the two latest Indy500 winners!", and it > will sell heaps. > > :) > > > -- > Olav K. Malmin > remove spam when replying