Re: ECCI will stop making wheels for individual customers

Scott B. Husted wrote:

Quoted text (33 lines)

> > My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would buy a > $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel from TSW > for a few hundred bucks. Then again, I use an ACT LABS Force RS and RS > Shifter <VBG> > > Scott > PA-Scott > PowerSims.com > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:DudZ4.2876$[email hidden]... > > http://www.ecci.net/ > > > > Sad lost, but I was expecting such a thing after the website wasn't > updated > > for ages. Technically, all the market for people who want quality wheels > > was reached. Why do you think Thrustmaster or other companies like this > > offer cheap wheels only? Because you will buy them each 2 or so years, and > > keep them in business. > > > > Sorry for all who won't be able to buy one, I tried one once and it is > > indeed a great wheel. You could still buy second-hand units ;) > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > realise > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosen to focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel for a few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yet naive, opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive. It takes a substantial investment and minimum quantities to produce a reasonably affordable quality product using the CAD/CAM design and production techniques of the CDS line of products. Since the demise of the NROS there has not been enough demand for a truly professional quality product except for in the commercial arena. If conditions regarding public sim-racing and its public profile improve, we may again produce units for retail sale. In the meantime, we may over-run commercial production from time to time to offer a few to the general public. Our commercial business has consistently grown despite offers by our competitor of "free products" to our customers. Our commercial customers have continued to buy our products for their consistent performance and quality. Quality and performance cost what they cost. This is why we have focused on this business. In this world where "a free lunch" seems to be a common public belief, we will remain "old fashioned quality-heads". Andy Cers ECCI

Scott B. Husted <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XaeZ4.397$[email hidden]... > My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would buya > $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel fromTSW > for a few hundred bucks. Then again, I use an ACT LABS Force RS and RS > Shifter <VBG> I purchased one of their wheel about five years ago. It cost around $500.00 and has really been worth every penny. I know by now I would have spent more than that on other wheels. I have had a few springs bust through the years and even though I request how much for the spring(s) and shipping costs, they would always send the material free of charge. Heck, shipping was usually $10.00. I know once I e-mailed them on a saturday afternoon and received the requested items the next day on Sunday. I hate to see them changing their ways but as well built as their wheels are made, I have no doubt it can be rebuilt for ever. There are many wheels out there with just as good a feel as the one I have and I knew it when I bought it. I simply wanted something re-buildable.

AndyCers, I resent your comments and your insinuations. 1) TSW has never given me a wheel 2) I do not own a TSW 2) I HAVE used both the TSW and ECCI for extended periods of time 3) I don't like the 1949 FORD TRACTOR PEDALS that are used on the ECCI for $1,500 (MY OPINION) 4) I feel the TSW provides more comparable options for 1/2 to 1/3 the price and at or near the same quality. (MY OPINION) "My opinions." As I stated, it was my opinion and my opinion is not bought or sold. Unlike many sites and groups out there who cave into the manufacturer or developer because they received the product, I state my opinion regardless. If TSW had given me a wheel for free, why would I state that I use an ACT-LABS FORCE RS and RS SHIFTER ???? Biased and naive was the post you just made. -- Scott B. Husted ICQ #4395450 Editor in Chief PowerSims.com AndyCers <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Scott B. Husted wrote: > > > > My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would buy a > > $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel from TSW > > for a few hundred bucks. Then again, I use an ACT LABS Force RS and RS > > Shifter <VBG> > > > > Scott > > PA-Scott > > PowerSims.com > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:DudZ4.2876$[email hidden]... > > > http://www.ecci.net/ > > > > > > Sad lost, but I was expecting such a thing after the website wasn't > > updated > > > for ages. Technically, all the market for people who want quality wheels > > > was reached. Why do you think Thrustmaster or other companies like this > > > offer cheap wheels only? Because you will buy them each 2 or so years, and > > > keep them in business. > > > > > > Sorry for all who won't be able to buy one, I tried one once and it is > > > indeed a great wheel. You could still buy second-hand units ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > > realise > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosen to > focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel for a > few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who > have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased > review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yet naive, > opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in > comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive. > > It takes a substantial investment and minimum quantities to produce a > reasonably affordable quality product using the CAD/CAM design and > production techniques of the CDS line of products. Since the demise of > the NROS there has not been enough demand for a truly professional > quality product except for in the commercial arena. If conditions > regarding public sim-racing and its public profile improve, we may again > produce units for retail sale. In the meantime, we may over-run > commercial production from time to time to offer a few to the general > public. > > Our commercial business has consistently grown despite offers by our > competitor of "free products" to our customers. Our commercial customers > have continued to buy our products for their consistent performance and > quality. Quality and performance cost what they cost. This is why we > have focused on this business. In this world where "a free lunch" seems > to be a common public belief, we will remain "old fashioned > quality-heads". > > Andy Cers > ECCI > >

AndyCers, I resent your comments and your insinuations. 1) TSW has never given me a wheel 2) I do not own a TSW 2) I HAVE used both the TSW and ECCI for extended periods of time 3) I don't like the 1949 FORD TRACTOR PEDALS that are used on the ECCI for $1,500 (MY OPINION) 4) I feel the TSW provides more comparable options for 1/2 to 1/3 the price and at or near the same quality. (MY OPINION) "My opinions." As I stated, it was my opinion and my opinion is not bought or sold. Unlike many sites and groups out there who cave into the manufacturer or developer because they received the product, I state my opinion regardless. If TSW had given me a wheel for free, why would I state that I use an ACT-LABS FORCE RS and RS SHIFTER ???? Biased and naive was the post you just made. -- Scott B. Husted ICQ #4395450 Editor in Chief PowerSims.com > > My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would buy a > > $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel from TSW > > for a few hundred bucks. Then again, I use an ACT LABS Force RS and RS > > Shifter <VBG> > > Scott > > PA-Scott > > PowerSims.com > > > http://www.ecci.net/ > > > Sad lost, but I was expecting such a thing after the website wasn't > > updated > > > for ages. Technically, all the market for people who want quality wheels > > > was reached. Why do you think Thrustmaster or other companies like this > > > offer cheap wheels only? Because you will buy them each 2 or so years, and > > > keep them in business. > > > Sorry for all who won't be able to buy one, I tried one once and it is > > > indeed a great wheel. You could still buy second-hand units ;) > > > -- > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > > realise > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosen to > focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel for a > few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who > have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased > review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yet naive, > opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in > comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive. > It takes a substantial investment and minimum quantities to produce a > reasonably affordable quality product using the CAD/CAM design and > production techniques of the CDS line of products. Since the demise of > the NROS there has not been enough demand for a truly professional > quality product except for in the commercial arena. If conditions > regarding public sim-racing and its public profile improve, we may again > produce units for retail sale. In the meantime, we may over-run > commercial production from time to time to offer a few to the general > public. > Our commercial business has consistently grown despite offers by our > competitor of "free products" to our customers. Our commercial customers > have continued to buy our products for their consistent performance and > quality. Quality and performance cost what they cost. This is why we > have focused on this business. In this world where "a free lunch" seems > to be a common public belief, we will remain "old fashioned > quality-heads". > Andy Cers > ECCI

http://www.ecci.net/ Sad lost, but I was expecting such a thing after the website wasn't updated for ages. Technically, all the market for people who want quality wheels was reached. Why do you think Thrustmaster or other companies like this offer cheap wheels only? Because you will buy them each 2 or so years, and keep them in business. Sorry for all who won't be able to buy one, I tried one once and it is indeed a great wheel. You could still buy second-hand units ;) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would buy a $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel from TSW for a few hundred bucks. Then again, I use an ACT LABS Force RS and RS Shifter <VBG> Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DudZ4.2876$[email hidden]... > http://www.ecci.net/ > > Sad lost, but I was expecting such a thing after the website wasn'tupdated

Quoted text (15 lines)

> for ages. Technically, all the market for people who want quality wheels > was reached. Why do you think Thrustmaster or other companies like this > offer cheap wheels only? Because you will buy them each 2 or so years, and > keep them in business. > > Sorry for all who won't be able to buy one, I tried one once and it is > indeed a great wheel. You could still buy second-hand units ;) > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't

realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > >

In article <8h66pr$4bv8$[email hidden]>, "Rick Boyd" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (9 lines)

>Mr. Pickett, > >I didn't know (dear friend) that you had a TSW. I sure would (good buddy) >like to try one. I'm in Troy; (o'pal o' mine) if you'd like to get >together. > >Rick >(I feel safe. I know you wouldn't argue with me.) >

LOL! Geez, there's a lot of sublimal stuff flying around today...<g> Sure, send me an e-mail. We can schedule something. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <RgwZ4.1$[email hidden]>, "Michael Grandy" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (9 lines)

>Without getting into the "which one is better" discussion but I will tell >you that I recently purchased a TSW for my son. I spent the better part of 2 >days using it and comparing it to my CDS 4000. While I will admit that for >the money the TSW is a fine unit and serves the same function as the ECCI, >there is a huge difference in quality. As far as ECCI goes, MY next wheel >had I ever needed one would have been an ECCI. My son likes his TSW and will >get alot of use out of it, but if he had the choice.......you can guess from >there. I would also like to thank Dave Thomas for getting the unit to me in >less than 2 weeks. Thats a big improvement over the old 4 to 5 month wait.

Where the heck can you even TEST an ECCI?!? No one that I know personally has one... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <8F466EEA8dscurlock@news>, [email hidden] (Don Scurlock) writes:

Quoted text (10 lines)

>>The market (ie, my wallet!) is completely ready for a high-quality FF, >>USB wheel in the $200-$500 range. > >I have been very happy with my ECCI system for over four years now, >it's still as solid as the day I recieved it. I've also been impressed >with any dealings I've had with the company, and am very sorry to hear >of the change. I desperately want to go FF, but I want quality, and I >was hoping it would come from ECCI. I'm willing to pay just about any >price, but I guess I'm going to reluctantly save some money, now that >I'm left with only the budget manufactures.

Do you consider TSW an budget manufacturer? Wow, I wish I had *your* money...<g> It took me about 3 years to convince myself to buy one... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

AndyCers, It was still extremely irresponsible to insinuate these accusations against me with no basis. In fact, you cannot even find a review I did of a TSW unit. If you want to say that some reviewers or individuals can be 'bought', thats fine. However, next time I suggest you be more responsible before accusing a specific person of these actions. -- Scott B. Husted ICQ #4395450 Editor in Chief PowerSims.com AndyCers <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Todd Walker wrote: > > > It is unprofessional and downright rude to assume that just because > > someone speaks positively of your competitors product, they must have > > been compensated in some way for their positive comments. I, for one, > > can't believe that you would insinuate such a thing having no > > knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances of Mr. Husted's comments. > > We have evidence of many such circumstances. To go into this would > require more > energy than I wish to invest in this matter... especially given that it > is moot, for we are not actively pursuing this market.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (16 lines)

> >AndyCers <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> Scott B. Husted wrote: >> > >> > My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would >buy a >> > $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel from >TSW >> > for a few hundred bucks. Then again, I use an ACT LABS Force RS and RS >> > Shifter <VBG> >> > >> > Scott >> > PA-Scott >> > PowerSims.com >> >

[snip]

Quoted text (29 lines)

>> >> This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosen to >> focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel for a >> few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who >> have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased >> review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yet naive, >> opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in >> comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive. >> >> It takes a substantial investment and minimum quantities to produce a >> reasonably affordable quality product using the CAD/CAM design and >> production techniques of the CDS line of products. Since the demise of >> the NROS there has not been enough demand for a truly professional >> quality product except for in the commercial arena. If conditions >> regarding public sim-racing and its public profile improve, we may again >> produce units for retail sale. In the meantime, we may over-run >> commercial production from time to time to offer a few to the general >> public. >> >> Our commercial business has consistently grown despite offers by our >> competitor of "free products" to our customers. Our commercial customers >> have continued to buy our products for their consistent performance and >> quality. Quality and performance cost what they cost. This is why we >> have focused on this business. In this world where "a free lunch" seems >> to be a common public belief, we will remain "old fashioned >> quality-heads". >> >> Andy Cers >> ECCI

Ok, I admit I missed the first part of this discussion. However, Andy seems to have an attitude towards certain consumers. Some people won't buy the ECCI products simply because of the price. $1500?!? I didn't pay that much for my first CAR... Others might want quality products, but don't feel the need for a $1500 device. I finally paid $350 or so for a TSW. I didn't have any way to test an ECCI. I don't know anyone locally who has one. Even so, there's no *way* I'm going to spend $1500 on a computer wheel. I don't care if if came from Ferrari themselves. It seems that Mr. Cers doesn't feel the need to listen to consumers who don't want to (or can't) spend that much money. Not good business PR, in my opinion. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would buy a >$1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel from TSW >for a few hundred bucks. Then again, I use an ACT LABS Force RS and RS >Shifter <VBG> Somehow I think that TSW might eventually find themselves in the same boat though. I own one, and I'm damn glad I do. But, they aren't something that you're going to have to replace...probably at all. I buy upgrades for mine, but I dont think they can survive on replacement pots and upgrades alone. Geez, I hope I never have to read anything like this happening to TSW though.

Has it occurred to you that many of those who might have been in the market for a "quality" wheel may have moved on to force feedback technology? With the death of the NROS came NASCAR 3 and force feedback support. There is no way I could go back to a wheel that is completely disconnected from the car, regardless of the "quality", after having used FF in GPL & N3. In GPL the difference is even more pronounced. I'm using a $120 plastic toy because it is simply the best that I've tried, and I've tried just about all of them. If you could produce a "quality" wheel with the technology of this "toy", then price would become less of an issue. You are a mechanical wizard and the ECCI is the best in it's class, but very few people are shopping in that class with a $1200 budget. "AndyCers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Scott B. Husted wrote: > > > > My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where Iwould buy a > > $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheelfrom TSW > > for a few hundred bucks. Then again, I use an ACT LABS Force RSand RS

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > Shifter <VBG> > > > > Scott > > PA-Scott > > PowerSims.com > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:DudZ4.2876$[email hidden]... > > > http://www.ecci.net/ > > > > > > Sad lost, but I was expecting such a thing after the website

wasn't > > updated > > > for ages. Technically, all the market for people who wantquality wheels > > > was reached. Why do you think Thrustmaster or other companieslike this > > > offer cheap wheels only? Because you will buy them each 2 or soyears, and > > > keep them in business. > > > > > > Sorry for all who won't be able to buy one, I tried one once andit is

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > > indeed a great wheel. You could still buy second-hand units ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they

don't > > realise > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI haschosen to > focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheelfor a > few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who > have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased > review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yetnaive, > opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in > comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive. > > It takes a substantial investment and minimum quantities to producea > reasonably affordable quality product using the CAD/CAM design and > production techniques of the CDS line of products. Since the demiseof > the NROS there has not been enough demand for a truly professional > quality product except for in the commercial arena. If conditions > regarding public sim-racing and its public profile improve, we mayagain > produce units for retail sale. In the meantime, we may over-run > commercial production from time to time to offer a few to thegeneral > public. > > Our commercial business has consistently grown despite offers by our > competitor of "free products" to our customers. Our commercialcustomers > have continued to buy our products for their consistent performanceand > quality. Quality and performance cost what they cost. This is why we > have focused on this business. In this world where "a free lunch"seems > to be a common public belief, we will remain "old fashioned > quality-heads". > > Andy Cers > ECCI >

Why slam TSW? I have never been impressed by competitors that talk bad about their competition. Yes, I know ECCI is top quality and you get what you pay for, no doubt. I have a TSW2 and have been extremely pleased with it, and yes I have driven the ECCI wheel as well. -- Don Burnette Dburn in N3 and Legends ICQ# 74084566 "AndyCers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosen to > focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel for a > few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who > have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased > review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yet naive, > opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in > comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive. > > It takes a substantial investment and minimum quantities to produce a > reasonably affordable quality product using the CAD/CAM design and > production techniques of the CDS line of products. Since the demise of > the NROS there has not been enough demand for a truly professional > quality product except for in the commercial arena. If conditions > regarding public sim-racing and its public profile improve, we may again > produce units for retail sale. In the meantime, we may over-run > commercial production from time to time to offer a few to the general > public. > > Our commercial business has consistently grown despite offers by our > competitor of "free products" to our customers. Our commercial customers > have continued to buy our products for their consistent performance and > quality. Quality and performance cost what they cost. This is why we > have focused on this business. In this world where "a free lunch" seems > to be a common public belief, we will remain "old fashioned > quality-heads". > > Andy Cers > ECCI >

On 31 May 2000 22:16:59 EDT, AndyCers <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

>This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosen to >focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel for a >few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who >have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased >review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yet naive, >opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in >comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive.

It is unprofessional and downright rude to assume that just because someone speaks positively of your competitors product, they must have been compensated in some way for their positive comments. I, for one, can't believe that you would insinuate such a thing having no knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances of Mr. Husted's comments.

Quoted text (9 lines)

>It takes a substantial investment and minimum quantities to produce a >reasonably affordable quality product using the CAD/CAM design and >production techniques of the CDS line of products. Since the demise of >the NROS there has not been enough demand for a truly professional >quality product except for in the commercial arena. If conditions >regarding public sim-racing and its public profile improve, we may again >produce units for retail sale. In the meantime, we may over-run >commercial production from time to time to offer a few to the general >public.

How incredibly generous of your company to consider doing the public a favor and allowing us to buy your product from time to time. You guys are really too kind...

Quoted text (7 lines)

>Our commercial business has consistently grown despite offers by our >competitor of "free products" to our customers. Our commercial customers >have continued to buy our products for their consistent performance and >quality. Quality and performance cost what they cost. This is why we >have focused on this business. In this world where "a free lunch" seems >to be a common public belief, we will remain "old fashioned >quality-heads".

I have absolutely NO respect for a company that will publicly defame its competitors. If your product is truly superior to TSW's then you shouldn't have to resort to those types of tactics. I am glad that I have never given ECCI any of my money. Todd Walker twalker294 at earthlink.net

> to be a common public belief, we will remain "old fashioned Perhaps if you weren't bent on being old fashioned you would realize that force feedback is here to stay and produce a wheel that meets a larger market. Or, maybe you're just better at the mechanical stuff than the electronics. -- Slot www.slottweak.com Tweaks & Reviews

Exactly what I've been thinking. I have an Act-Labs RS, a TM Nascar Pro, and had another no-name wheel, and they all have the same problem: over time they get sloppy because of plastic parts. If' these companies would make versions of their products replacing some of the plastic with metal: metal shafts with ball-bearings, and positive metal-to-metal shaft to wheel connection, I think there would be a lot of us who would gladly spend a few extra $. Are there any wheels on the market now which do NOT use pots?

Quoted text (9 lines)

>>snip > not bad for a $120 plastic toy, but I'd *really* like a much better > version of the same. (To wit: wonderfully smooth ball-bearing action, > with little to no side-to-side play, and a FF mechanism has a 'higher > resolution' feel to it (I'm tired of feeling the 'cogging' from the > finite # of positions that the FF motor can take). >> snip >I will not be buying a pot-based >controller ever again - gotta have hi-res optical encoders

">

Quoted text (14 lines)

> Right now I'm using a LWFF in conjunction with my old T2 pedals. It's > not bad for a $120 plastic toy, but I'd *really* like a much better > version of the same. (To wit: wonderfully smooth ball-bearing action, > with little to no side-to-side play, and a FF mechanism has a 'higher > resolution' feel to it (I'm tired of feeling the 'cogging' from the > finite # of positions that the FF motor can take). > > Sure, mech-e types can continue to make sexy bits of controller > machinery, but without some ee's and/or cs to make it all work with > modern systems, it's all pointless. I will not be buying a pot-based > controller ever again - gotta have hi-res optical encoders, and a USB > interface, etc... > > --John Bradley

The cogging of your wheel has little or nothing to do with the positions that the motor can take. If you took the motor out and spun the shaft you would notice that it can take damn near any position you want it to. It is very smooth. (By the way, if you do this plan many hours of blood, sweat, and yes, tears, before you get it back in again). The problem is that your motor shaft is bent. This is fairly common on the Chineese manufactured wheels. As the motor shaft turns the cable tightens, and loosens, and tightens, and.... Hence the cogging. The cogging isn't a flaw with FF, it's a manufacturing defect in your wheel.

I'm really sorry to hear this. As the proud owner of a Monza F1 myself, I know how terrific there wheels are. But indeed, they'll never break so replacement sales are probably very low. A problem that arises now is that TSW loses most of its competition. The only real competition TSW had was coming from ECCI. Now this competition is gone, I hope TSW won't fall down towards the more mainstream wheels, which would mean the end of high-end controllers as we know it. --- Joeri J. Cox J_Cox on N3 - ICQ# 60159253 Proud co-founder of 502 Racing European Racing League - http://drive.to/erl

Quoted text (7 lines)

> ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:DudZ4.2876$[email hidden]... > > http://www.ecci.net/ > > > > Sad lost, but I was expecting such a thing after the website wasn't > updated > > for ages. Technically, all the market for people who want quality

wheels > > was reached. Why do you think Thrustmaster or other companies like this > > offer cheap wheels only? Because you will buy them each 2 or so years,and > > keep them in business. > > > > Sorry for all who won't be able to buy one, I tried one once and it is > > indeed a great wheel. You could still buy second-hand units ;) > >

Actually, there is at least one wheel that doesn't use pots. The problem with optics is that, while they have higher reading resolution, they also suffer from the jitters when used in a wheel. By the time you calm them, the resolution is less than that of a high quality pot. Cleaning the pots sometimes helps, but the problem is that they're so hard to get at that we don't do it until damage is done. What I'd really like to see is easy access to clean them so it could be done on a monthly (or so) basis. With regular maintenance, they should theoretically last a very long time. The market is ready for a high quality, mass merchandised FF wheel. Somebody will step up with it. Maybe Logi or TM or someone else, and it will be available at Best Buy or EB, not just through the manufacturer's web site. It must be mass merchandised (unlike ECCI) and it makes sense for someone to make it. Having a product in your line up that is considered the best available is good marketing sense because it helps to sell your other products by reputation. If I was into flight sims, I'd certainly consider a TSW flight stick (with FF, of course). Finally, as for ECCI, it's not enough just to have the best product. It has to also be a good value. Yes, some people will pay any price for the best, and I'm sure ECCI wheel owners are very happy with their purchase. But if you want to sell a lot of units (and that's the point, isn't it) and your product is 10% better than the number 2 unit, your price better reflect this. Value, or perceived value, availability, and product awareness are key issues. We in this news group and not typical computer consumers anymore. Picture a guy with a good income driving up to Best Buy in his new BMW. He buys a gaming computer that the salesman tells him is good, the fastest thing available. He picks out NFS:PU and then decides on a MSFF or LWFF wheel because that's what they stock. He's never heard of ECCI, yet he has plenty of money to spend. -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com "Gary Wampler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VYrZ4.139723$[email hidden]... > Exactly what I've been thinking. > I have an Act-Labs RS, a TM Nascar Pro, and had another no-name wheel, and > they all have the same problem: over time they get sloppy because of > plastic parts. If' these companies would make versions of their products > replacing some of the plastic with metal: metal shafts with ball-bearings, > and positive metal-to-metal shaft to wheel connection, I think there would > be a lot of us who would gladly spend a few extra $. > > Are there any wheels on the market now which do NOT use pots? > > >>snip > > not bad for a $120 plastic toy, but I'd *really* like a much better > > version of the same. (To wit: wonderfully smooth ball-bearing action, > > with little to no side-to-side play, and a FF mechanism has a 'higher > > resolution' feel to it (I'm tired of feeling the 'cogging' from the > > finite # of positions that the FF motor can take). > >> snip > >I will not be buying a pot-based > >controller ever again - gotta have hi-res optical encoders > >

Well, I guess I can come out of the closet on the ECCI pedals now. I'm sure they work good, but I though I was the only one who thought they looked like tractor pedals. Do those wheels come with cup holders and an 8 track tape player? Now, Scott, where can I get me one of them free TSW wheels ;-) -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > AndyCers, > > I resent your comments and your insinuations. > > 1) TSW has never given me a wheel > 2) I do not own a TSW > 2) I HAVE used both the TSW and ECCI for extended periods of time > 3) I don't like the 1949 FORD TRACTOR PEDALS that are used on the ECCI for > $1,500 (MY OPINION) > 4) I feel the TSW provides more comparable options for 1/2 to 1/3 the price > and at or near the same quality. (MY OPINION) > > "My opinions." > > As I stated, it was my opinion and my opinion is not bought or sold. Unlike > many sites and groups out there who cave into the manufacturer or developer > because they received the product, I state my opinion regardless. If TSW > had given me a wheel for free, why would I state that I use an ACT-LABS > FORCE RS and RS SHIFTER ???? > > > Biased and naive was the post you just made. > > > > -- > Scott B. Husted > ICQ #4395450 > > Editor in Chief > PowerSims.com > > > AndyCers <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Scott B. Husted wrote: > > > > > > My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would > buy a > > > $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel from > TSW > > > for a few hundred bucks. Then again, I use an ACT LABS Force RS and RS > > > Shifter <VBG> > > > > > > Scott > > > PA-Scott > > > PowerSims.com > > > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:DudZ4.2876$[email hidden]... > > > > http://www.ecci.net/ > > > > > > > > Sad lost, but I was expecting such a thing after the website wasn't > > > updated > > > > for ages. Technically, all the market for people who want quality > wheels > > > > was reached. Why do you think Thrustmaster or other companies like > this > > > > offer cheap wheels only? Because you will buy them each 2 or so years, > and > > > > keep them in business. > > > > > > > > Sorry for all who won't be able to buy one, I tried one once and it is > > > > indeed a great wheel. You could still buy second-hand units ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > > > realise > > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosen to > > focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel for a > > few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who > > have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased > > review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yet naive, > > opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in > > comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive. > > > > It takes a substantial investment and minimum quantities to produce a > > reasonably affordable quality product using the CAD/CAM design and > > production techniques of the CDS line of products. Since the demise of > > the NROS there has not been enough demand for a truly professional > > quality product except for in the commercial arena. If conditions > > regarding public sim-racing and its public profile improve, we may again > > produce units for retail sale. In the meantime, we may over-run > > commercial production from time to time to offer a few to the general > > public. > > > > Our commercial business has consistently grown despite offers by our > > competitor of "free products" to our customers. Our commercial customers > > have continued to buy our products for their consistent performance and > > quality. Quality and performance cost what they cost. This is why we > > have focused on this business. In this world where "a free lunch" seems > > to be a common public belief, we will remain "old fashioned > > quality-heads". > > > > Andy Cers > > ECCI > > > > > > > >

Without getting into the "which one is better" discussion but I will tell you that I recently purchased a TSW for my son. I spent the better part of 2 days using it and comparing it to my CDS 4000. While I will admit that for the money the TSW is a fine unit and serves the same function as the ECCI, there is a huge difference in quality. As far as ECCI goes, MY next wheel had I ever needed one would have been an ECCI. My son likes his TSW and will get alot of use out of it, but if he had the choice.......you can guess from there. I would also like to thank Dave Thomas for getting the unit to me in less than 2 weeks. Thats a big improvement over the old 4 to 5 month wait. "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XaeZ4.397$[email hidden]... > My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would buya > $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel fromTSW

Quoted text (14 lines)

> for a few hundred bucks. Then again, I use an ACT LABS Force RS and RS > Shifter <VBG> > > Scott > PA-Scott > PowerSims.com > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:DudZ4.2876$[email hidden]... > > http://www.ecci.net/ > > > > Sad lost, but I was expecting such a thing after the website wasn't > updated > > for ages. Technically, all the market for people who want quality

wheels > > was reached. Why do you think Thrustmaster or other companies like this > > offer cheap wheels only? Because you will buy them each 2 or so years,and

Quoted text (19 lines)

> > keep them in business. > > > > Sorry for all who won't be able to buy one, I tried one once and it is > > indeed a great wheel. You could still buy second-hand units ;) > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > realise > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > > >

Very well put Andy and I'm sure as soon as he can get to a dictionary to figure out what you said he'll respond(just kidding Scott), I would like to say that I've appreciated my association with ECCI , especially Andy Cers. These guys have run a class establishment and as always their reputaion for quality is second to none. I gotta tell you when Andy told me the news I got a little choked up. It's like losing an old friend, fortunately I get to keep a piece of the memory. I don't see any need to ever buy another wheel, this should last my lifetime as well as my boys lifetime. I Hope to see ECCI back in the retail sector sometime, they will always get my support. "AndyCers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Scott B. Husted wrote: > > > > My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I wouldbuy a > > $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel fromTSW

Quoted text (14 lines)

> > for a few hundred bucks. Then again, I use an ACT LABS Force RS and RS > > Shifter <VBG> > > > > Scott > > PA-Scott > > PowerSims.com > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:DudZ4.2876$[email hidden]... > > > http://www.ecci.net/ > > > > > > Sad lost, but I was expecting such a thing after the website wasn't > > updated > > > for ages. Technically, all the market for people who want quality

wheels > > > was reached. Why do you think Thrustmaster or other companies likethis > > > offer cheap wheels only? Because you will buy them each 2 or so years,and

Quoted text (45 lines)

> > > keep them in business. > > > > > > Sorry for all who won't be able to buy one, I tried one once and it is > > > indeed a great wheel. You could still buy second-hand units ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > > realise > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosen to > focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel for a > few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who > have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased > review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yet naive, > opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in > comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive. > > It takes a substantial investment and minimum quantities to produce a > reasonably affordable quality product using the CAD/CAM design and > production techniques of the CDS line of products. Since the demise of > the NROS there has not been enough demand for a truly professional > quality product except for in the commercial arena. If conditions > regarding public sim-racing and its public profile improve, we may again > produce units for retail sale. In the meantime, we may over-run > commercial production from time to time to offer a few to the general > public. > > Our commercial business has consistently grown despite offers by our > competitor of "free products" to our customers. Our commercial customers > have continued to buy our products for their consistent performance and > quality. Quality and performance cost what they cost. This is why we > have focused on this business. In this world where "a free lunch" seems > to be a common public belief, we will remain "old fashioned > quality-heads". > > Andy Cers > ECCI >

This is an argument as old as the hills. Actually the publicly defamation started with TSW back when Trevor was responding and posting on the NG. Since Dave has been taking care of the public relations it's been pretty non existent. Andy takes great pride and went through great pains to produce a quality product second to none. I envite you take a good look at mine or anyone elses ECCI to see just what kind of quality goes into these units.

Quoted text (7 lines)

> I have absolutely NO respect for a company that will publicly defame > its competitors. If your product is truly superior to TSW's then you > shouldn't have to resort to those types of tactics. I am glad that I > have never given ECCI any of my money. > > Todd Walker > twalker294 at earthlink.net

Slot, My get rich quick scheme, send me $500 and Ill show you how to get a free TSW <VBG> ;) Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com GTX_SlotCar <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:T6wZ4.177$[email hidden]... > Well, I guess I can come out of the closet on the ECCI pedals now. I'msure > they work good, but I though I was the only one who thought they lookedlike

Quoted text (22 lines)

> tractor pedals. Do those wheels come with cup holders and an 8 track tape > player? > > Now, Scott, where can I get me one of them free TSW wheels ;-) > > -- > Slot > > Tweaks & Reviews > www.slottweak.com > > > "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > AndyCers, > > > > I resent your comments and your insinuations. > > > > 1) TSW has never given me a wheel > > 2) I do not own a TSW > > 2) I HAVE used both the TSW and ECCI for extended periods of time > > 3) I don't like the 1949 FORD TRACTOR PEDALS that are used on the ECCI

for

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > $1,500 (MY OPINION) > > 4) I feel the TSW provides more comparable options for 1/2 to 1/3 the > price > > and at or near the same quality. (MY OPINION) > > > > "My opinions." > > > > As I stated, it was my opinion and my opinion is not bought or sold. > Unlike > > many sites and groups out there who cave into the manufacturer or > developer > > because they received the product, I state my opinion regardless. If

TSW

Quoted text (21 lines)

> > had given me a wheel for free, why would I state that I use an ACT-LABS > > FORCE RS and RS SHIFTER ???? > > > > > > Biased and naive was the post you just made. > > > > > > > > -- > > Scott B. Husted > > ICQ #4395450 > > > > Editor in Chief > > PowerSims.com > > > > > > AndyCers <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Scott B. Husted wrote: > > > > > > > > My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I

would

Quoted text (17 lines)

> > buy a > > > > $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel > from > > TSW > > > > for a few hundred bucks. Then again, I use an ACT LABS Force RS and > RS > > > > Shifter <VBG> > > > > > > > > Scott > > > > PA-Scott > > > > PowerSims.com > > > > > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:DudZ4.2876$[email hidden]... > > > > > http://www.ecci.net/ > > > > > > > > > > Sad lost, but I was expecting such a thing after the website

wasn't > > > > updated > > > > > for ages. Technically, all the market for people who want quality > > wheels > > > > > was reached. Why do you think Thrustmaster or other companieslike

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > this > > > > > offer cheap wheels only? Because you will buy them each 2 or so > years, > > and > > > > > keep them in business. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for all who won't be able to buy one, I tried one once and

it

Quoted text (10 lines)

> is > > > > > indeed a great wheel. You could still buy second-hand units ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > > > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they

don't > > > > realise > > > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > > > > This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosento > > > focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel fora > > > few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who > > > have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased > > > review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yetnaive,

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > > opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in > > > comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive. > > > > > > It takes a substantial investment and minimum quantities to produce a > > > reasonably affordable quality product using the CAD/CAM design and > > > production techniques of the CDS line of products. Since the demise of > > > the NROS there has not been enough demand for a truly professional > > > quality product except for in the commercial arena. If conditions > > > regarding public sim-racing and its public profile improve, we may

again > > > produce units for retail sale. In the meantime, we may over-run > > > commercial production from time to time to offer a few to the general > > > public. > > > > > > Our commercial business has consistently grown despite offers by our > > > competitor of "free products" to our customers. Our commercialcustomers > > > have continued to buy our products for their consistent performanceand > > > quality. Quality and performance cost what they cost. This is why we > > > have focused on this business. In this world where "a free lunch"seems

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > > to be a common public belief, we will remain "old fashioned > > > quality-heads". > > > > > > Andy Cers > > > ECCI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Mike, Let me say I had/have no problem with ECCI or their products. Those who have them love them. I personally do not like the pedals and I cannot justify spending $1,500 for their product. I by no means intended to imply their product is NOT high quality. It is. However, a price-quality relationship is consumer specific. However, my problem lies in the insinuations that Andy made. Being partner in PowerSims.com, any kind of hint that my opinion can be swayed or 'bought' by receiving free product is insulting. Even aside from that, on a personal level it is also insulting. Mike Schmidt, my partner at PowerSims.com, owns an ECCI wheel matter of fact. He absolutely loves it and would never switch. For me, if I wanted a high quality analog steering device, I would look at TSW. (Of course now, you really have no choice <G>). But, I happen to love FF in GPL and thus I use the ACT-LABS Force RS and RS Shifter combo as I believe its the best of the FF crop of wheels. My opinion. Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com >Michael Grandy <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:SowZ4.2$[email hidden]... > Very well put Andy and I'm sure as soon as he can get to a dictionary to > figure out what you said he'll respond(just kidding Scott),

Mr. Pickett, I didn't know (dear friend) that you had a TSW. I sure would (good buddy) like to try one. I'm in Troy; (o'pal o' mine) if you'd like to get together. Rick (I feel safe. I know you wouldn't argue with me.) EldredP wrote: > Ok, I admit I missed the first part of this discussion. However, Andyseems to > have an attitude towards certain consumers. Some people won't buy theECCI > products simply because of the price. $1500?!? I didn't pay that muchfor my > first CAR... Others might want quality products, but don't feel the needfor a > $1500 device. I finally paid $350 or so for a TSW. I didn't have any wayto > test an ECCI. I don't know anyone locally who has one. Even so, there'sno > *way* I'm going to spend $1500 on a computer wheel. I don't care if ifcame > from Ferrari themselves. It seems that Mr. Cers doesn't feel the need to > listen to consumers who don't want to (or can't) spend that much money.Not

Quoted text (8 lines)

> good business PR, in my opinion. > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] (John Bradley) wrote in <MPG.13a00078d4deaa089896cb@news>: >The market (ie, my wallet!) is completely ready for a high-quality FF, >USB wheel in the $200-$500 range. I have been very happy with my ECCI system for over four years now, it's still as solid as the day I recieved it. I've also been impressed with any dealings I've had with the company, and am very sorry to hear of the change. I desperately want to go FF, but I want quality, and I was hoping it would come from ECCI. I'm willing to pay just about any price, but I guess I'm going to reluctantly save some money, now that I'm left with only the budget manufactures. -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C.

ROFL Actually, it was someone who I did a Mortgage for a few years ago when i was a Loan Officer. ($220,000 loan on a $500,000 house but a ton of 'red tape' which happens sometimes with those wealthy folk ;) ). Happened to run into him and he offered. Uh.. that was a hard decision to make <VBG> -- Scott B. Husted ICQ #4395450 Editor in Chief PowerSims.com

In article <[email hidden]>, AndyCers <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (41 lines)

>Mr. Husted, > >Your original statement is still bogus. And I stand by my original >response verbatim. This is a general statement, not a specific >accusation. >If anyone else chooses to interpret it as you have then so be it. >Both are copied below if anyone cares. This will be my final >communication on this matter. > >If our professional customers agreed with your opinion, then we could >not be able to sell our product to anybody at all. In fact we have heard >from our commercial customers that the Thomas people have offered to >send them 'free' units as an inducement to try to take this business >away >from us. Our customers continue to buy from us despite these ploys. > >In the online racing world, we have heard of dozens of free TSW units >given >in return for promotional considerations, often using statements nearly >identical to yours below. We know of this because we frequently receive >requests for free units from those whose buddies have received free TSWs >wondering why we don't do the same. I have also received over the years >numerous offers of positive reviews in exchange for a 'gratuity' unit, >several from prominent on-line simracing sites. We have never in our >history given a unit in exchange for such coverage. > >Here are the original communications: <EOM> > >Scott B. Husted originally wrote: >> My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would buy a >> $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel from TSW >> for a few hundred bucks. > >AndyCers originally responded: >> This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosen to >> focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel for a >> few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who >> have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased >> review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yet naive, >> opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in >> comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive.

Some people will always buy top of the line - they want it 'just because', and they have money to burn. I would guess that those people made up the bulk of your customers. Unfortunately, most of us need to spend our limited funds more 'responsibly'. Which means that your products are out of range... I still don't understand how you could assume that Scott received a free wheel from his statement. If you really think that your message wouldn't be interpreted in that manner, then *you're* the one who's naive. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Mr. Husted, Your original statement is still bogus. And I stand by my original response verbatim. This is a general statement, not a specific accusation. If anyone else chooses to interpret it as you have then so be it. Both are copied below if anyone cares. This will be my final communication on this matter. If our professional customers agreed with your opinion, then we could not be able to sell our product to anybody at all. In fact we have heard from our commercial customers that the Thomas people have offered to send them 'free' units as an inducement to try to take this business away from us. Our customers continue to buy from us despite these ploys. In the online racing world, we have heard of dozens of free TSW units given in return for promotional considerations, often using statements nearly identical to yours below. We know of this because we frequently receive requests for free units from those whose buddies have received free TSWs wondering why we don't do the same. I have also received over the years numerous offers of positive reviews in exchange for a 'gratuity' unit, several from prominent on-line simracing sites. We have never in our history given a unit in exchange for such coverage. Here are the original communications: <EOM> Scott B. Husted originally wrote: > My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would buy a > $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel from TSW > for a few hundred bucks. AndyCers originally responded:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosen to > focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel for a > few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who > have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased > review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yet naive, > opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in > comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive.

"Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On 31 May 2000 22:16:59 EDT, AndyCers <[email hidden]> wrote: > I have absolutely NO respect for a company that will publicly defame > its competitors. If your product is truly superior to TSW's then you > shouldn't have to resort to those types of tactics. I am glad that I > have never given ECCI any of my money. Amen to that, very very poor business practice. If he should decide to grace the general public with his wheels once again, I wouldn't give it a look. And no, it wouldn't be my loss :) -- Don Burnette Dburn in N3 and Legends ICQ# 74084566

That's about it Eldred, you pretty much have to know someone that has one. I had the fortune to visit with some members of a league a couple of years ago, and one - the host, had an ECCI. Yes, it was a very nice wheel, and very good looking. Would it be worth all the extra money for me? No way, not for me. Some folks it is, some it's not. It's all subjective, there is no right or wrong on the matter. My TSW2 serves me fantastic for what I do, and I do quite a bit of racing, both online and off. -- Don Burnette Dburn in N3 and Legends ICQ# 74084566 "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Where the heck can you even TEST an ECCI?!? No one that I know personally has > one... > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Sounds like you've outgrown us Take care, -- Don Burnette Dburn in N3 and Legends ICQ# 7408456 "AndyCers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

GTX_SlotCar wrote: > > Well, I guess I can come out of the closet on the ECCI pedals now. I'm sure > they work good, but I though I was the only one who thought they looked like > tractor pedals. Do those wheels come with cup holders and an 8 track tape > player? Anyone say pedals ? http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/lakewood/Redline2.htm Nigel Nichols for president !! :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote... >If our professional customers agreed with your opinion, then we could >not be able to sell our product to anybody at all. In fact we have heard >from our commercial customers that the Thomas people have offered to >send them 'free' units as an inducement to try to take this business >away from us. Our customers continue to buy from us despite these ploys. Welcome to the real world - Heh. It's "dog eat dog" out there. If TE can gain market share by giving away their controllers, then hat's off to them. Your comment about the lack of interest in ECCI since the death of NROS in a previous post is a cop out IMO. You guys are reeling, and you just can't admit it. Any night on WON there are probably more on-line racers than there ever were on TEN, so your comment means nothing. Bottom line - No Force Feedback. No Retail business. Your done as far as we're concerned so you won't be missed. Asta'. --David Cook

>Your done as far as we're >concerned so you won't be missed. Asta'. Please don't generalize your opinions to include everyone. There will always be loyal ECCI supporters in the sim community. Everyone including yourself is entitled to their opinions, but don't insinuate everyones is the same. This has always been a sensative subject on the NG. Michael K. Grandy Sr Proud Member of Precision Racing Professional Internet Race Team Powered by ECCI "ECCI - A proud sponsor of the 1998 NROS finals" The CDS4000 was designed for stock car racing... and it delivers NOTICE TO BULK E-MAILERS: Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, p.227, any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to [email hidden] is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of Five-Hundred Dollars U.S. E-Mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. Member of Nass 2000 Pro Online Series Member of OSCAR Freedom Cup Series Member of the National Invitational Series The NIS is sponsored by Thomas Enterprises "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote... >If our professional customers agreed with your opinion, then we could >not be able to sell our product to anybody at all. In fact we have heard >from our commercial customers that the Thomas people have offered to >send them 'free' units as an inducement to try to take this business >away from us. Our customers continue to buy from us despite these ploys. Welcome to the real world - Heh. It's "dog eat dog" out there. If TE can gain market share by giving away their controllers, then hat's off to them. Your comment about the lack of interest in ECCI since the death of NROS in a previous post is a cop out IMO. You guys are reeling, and you just can't admit it. Any night on WON there are probably more on-line racers than there ever were on TEN, so your comment means nothing. Bottom line - No Force Feedback. No Retail business. Your done as far as we're concerned so you won't be missed. Asta'. --David Cook

>Some people will always buy top of the line - they want it 'just because', and >they have money to burn. You're right Eldred. I bought mine just because, just because it was the best wheel on the market and since I spent a good many hours using an ECCI over the last 4 years it turned out to be a good responsible investment. I have tried almost every wheel available in the US and find it to be most suitable for my driving style. I also drive an $800 car that I've had for over 3 years. I actually use my ECCI more than I use my car, so I guess it was as good an investment as my car. Michael K. Grandy Sr Proud Member of Precision Racing Professional Internet Race Team Powered by ECCI "ECCI - A proud sponsor of the 1998 NROS finals" The CDS4000 was designed for stock car racing... and it delivers NOTICE TO BULK E-MAILERS: Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, p.227, any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to [email hidden] is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of Five-Hundred Dollars U.S. E-Mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. Member of Nass 2000 Pro Online Series Member of OSCAR Freedom Cup Series Member of the National Invitational Series The NIS is sponsored by Thomas Enterprises "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... In article <[email hidden]>, AndyCers <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (41 lines)

>Mr. Husted, > >Your original statement is still bogus. And I stand by my original >response verbatim. This is a general statement, not a specific >accusation. >If anyone else chooses to interpret it as you have then so be it. >Both are copied below if anyone cares. This will be my final >communication on this matter. > >If our professional customers agreed with your opinion, then we could >not be able to sell our product to anybody at all. In fact we have heard >from our commercial customers that the Thomas people have offered to >send them 'free' units as an inducement to try to take this business >away >from us. Our customers continue to buy from us despite these ploys. > >In the online racing world, we have heard of dozens of free TSW units >given >in return for promotional considerations, often using statements nearly >identical to yours below. We know of this because we frequently receive >requests for free units from those whose buddies have received free TSWs >wondering why we don't do the same. I have also received over the years >numerous offers of positive reviews in exchange for a 'gratuity' unit, >several from prominent on-line simracing sites. We have never in our >history given a unit in exchange for such coverage. > >Here are the original communications: <EOM> > >Scott B. Husted originally wrote: >> My personal opinion only, but I couldn't see the market where I would buy a >> $1,200+ ECCI wheel when you can have arguably just as good a wheel from TSW >> for a few hundred bucks. > >AndyCers originally responded: >> This statement by Mr. Husted is just a symptom of why ECCI has chosen to >> focus on the commercial market exclusively. "Just as good a wheel for a >> few hundred bucks" is a ubiquitous statement promulgated by many who >> have often received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased >> review' and this kind of promotion. There are also strident, yet naive, >> opinions expressed by those who haven't actually used both in >> comparison. These should be considered as just that... naive.

Some people will always buy top of the line - they want it 'just because', and they have money to burn. I would guess that those people made up the bulk of your customers. Unfortunately, most of us need to spend our limited funds more 'responsibly'. Which means that your products are out of range... I still don't understand how you could assume that Scott received a free wheel from his statement. If you really think that your message wouldn't be interpreted in that manner, then *you're* the one who's naive. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"AndyCers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > Your original statement is still bogus. Doesn't bogus still mean "Counterfeit or fake"? Yea, I just looked it up. That's still what it means. What's Andy's job, PR for LA adolescents? Wow, like, ya know, that's just totally bogus. Totally, ya know. Hmmm... sounds pretty "kewl". Maybe I'll change my writing style. Okay, seriously. Andy spoke (or typed) before he thought. He believes his product is better, as he should, and jumped on Scott's remarks,even though Scott clearly said "My personal opinion only, but..." . Now in typical PR fashion he's saying that he didn't accuse Scott of taking a wheel in return for a favorable review. Well, he surely did. It was the reason for his reply and I'd say that "received a free TSW product in return for an 'unbiased review' " is a pretty strong accusation. Here's the thing, Andy. You owe Scott an apology, plain and simple. Your statements were prompted by and aimed at him. You falsely accused him, so apologize. All will be forgiven and we'll be one big, happy, sim driving family again. Then if you feel the need, you can explain that, in general, others have taken free wheels for a favorable review. But then, it's only fair to tell us who these others are. Oh, here's another tip, Andy. On this news group, never, ever make a joke about hurling your cat across the room ;-) -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com

Andy, You can disagree with my original statement. Its your right. That doesn't make it bogus. Its subjective. I can't disagree that you have the highest quality TRACTOR pedals on the market. Again, my opinion. That still does not change the fact that you accused me of receiving a TSW wheel in return for favorable press in your post. Again, you should be more careful how you word your posts if you did not intend to state this. I guess it was too much to expect a simple apology for your ill worded 'general statement' that can be taken by many as a slanderous post against me and my review practices. For your sake, and the sake of your company, I hope one of you commercial customers does not disagree with something you say, as your response is likely to get you a date in court. Regards, Scott B. Husted PowerSims.com

They're done as far as "I'm" concerned (thanks for the correction). Although I realize there will always be loyal ECCI supporters, I would venture to guess that the majority of "us" feel the same. --David Cook In article <j%NZ4.4578$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> >Your done as far as we're > >concerned so you won't be missed. Asta'. > > Please don't generalize your opinions to include everyone. > There will always be loyal ECCI supporters in the sim community. Everyone > including yourself is entitled to their opinions, but don't insinuate > everyones is the same. This has always been a sensative subject on the NG. > Michael K. Grandy Sr

Although it was OK for Andy to 'generalize' and 'insinuate' that I received free product from TSW in return for my positive comments regarding their product? Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com Mike Grandy <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:j%NZ4.4578$[email hidden]... >Your done as far as we're >concerned so you won't be missed. Asta'. Please don't generalize your opinions to include everyone. There will always be loyal ECCI supporters in the sim community. Everyone including yourself is entitled to their opinions, but don't insinuate everyones is the same. This has always been a sensative subject on the NG.

Joeri, My grandfather had a 1949 FORD tractor... the pedals on the ECCI remind me almost exactly what those pedals were like. I don't prefer to race with pedals like that. Also, I owned Volvo's and drove a 2000 BMW 7 series just last week. Sorry, but the pedals in no way, shape or form resemble the ECCI pedals. The point remains that anyone should feel free about expressing their opinions without being accused of fraudulent and unethical activities without any kind of substance behind those accusations. Everyone also has the right to disagree with those opinions. This has never been about the ECCI product. I never questioned their quality. In fact, I think the steering wheel itself is fantastic for an analog control device. I only questioned the consumer market for a $1,500 wheel when, IN MY OPINION, there are comparable products available for much, much less money. If I was wrong about that , I would have a hard time believing ECCI would be exiting the market. Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com

> I also drive an $800 car that I've had for over 3 years. There's something strangely reassuring about a guy who'll spend more on his sim wheel than he spends on his car. Way to go, Mike ;-) -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com

Then there are those among us who drive $20k and above cars and use under $200 sim racing devices <VBG> =) Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com GTX_SlotCar <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hPSZ4.445$[email hidden]... > > I also drive an $800 car that I've had for over 3 years. > > > There's something strangely reassuring about a guy who'll spend more onhis

Quoted text (9 lines)

> sim wheel than he spends on his car. Way to go, Mike ;-) > > -- > Slot > > Tweaks & Reviews > www.slottweak.com > >

Scott, If you have to resort to calling pedals TRACTOR pedals I really can't think too high of your own skills in choosing the right words. It's actually pretty childish. It really is. However, regarding the pedals: around here in Europe, where we *know* how to make quality cars better than anywhere, the bigger the cars get, the more the accelerator pedal looks and works like your so-called 'tractor pedal'. The reason behind this is that it's so very comfortable. That's what producing high-end cars like BMW, Mercedes, Saab, Volvo is all about. Comfort. So why make fun of a company's pedal design when it's widely known that it's the most comfortable design around? --- Joeri J. Cox J_Cox on N3 - ICQ# 60159253 Proud co-founder of 502 Racing European Racing League - http://drive.to/erl "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:reQZ4.1084$[email hidden]... > Andy, > > You can disagree with my original statement. Its your right. Thatdoesn't > make it bogus. Its subjective. I can't disagree that you have thehighest > quality TRACTOR pedals on the market. Again, my opinion.

There you go, insinuating that I agree with his insinuation. (-: Michael K. Grandy Sr Proud Member of Precision Racing Professional Internet Race Team Powered by ECCI "ECCI - A proud sponsor of the 1998 NROS finals" The CDS4000 was designed for stock car racing... and it delivers NOTICE TO BULK E-MAILERS: Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, p.227, any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to [email hidden] is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of Five-Hundred Dollars U.S. E-Mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. Member of Nass 2000 Pro Online Series Member of OSCAR Freedom Cup Series Member of the National Invitational Series The NIS is sponsored by Thomas Enterprises "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JNRZ4.1134$[email hidden]... Although it was OK for Andy to 'generalize' and 'insinuate' that I received free product from TSW in return for my positive comments regarding their product? Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com Mike Grandy <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:j%NZ4.4578$[email hidden]... >Your done as far as we're >concerned so you won't be missed. Asta'. Please don't generalize your opinions to include everyone. There will always be loyal ECCI supporters in the sim community. Everyone including yourself is entitled to their opinions, but don't insinuate everyones is the same. This has always been a sensative subject on the NG.

The irony in that Scott was that I owned my own business for 20 years which happened to be a used car dealership. I've driven and owned cars some people only dream about. I am not impressed by cars anymore, guess I just grew out of it. Michael K. Grandy Sr Proud Member of Precision Racing Professional Internet Race Team Powered by ECCI "ECCI - A proud sponsor of the 1998 NROS finals" The CDS4000 was designed for stock car racing... and it delivers NOTICE TO BULK E-MAILERS: Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, p.227, any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to [email hidden] is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of Five-Hundred Dollars U.S. E-Mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. Member of Nass 2000 Pro Online Series Member of OSCAR Freedom Cup Series Member of the National Invitational Series The NIS is sponsored by Thomas Enterprises "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BWSZ4.1148$[email hidden]... Then there are those among us who drive $20k and above cars and use under $200 sim racing devices <VBG> =) Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com GTX_SlotCar <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hPSZ4.445$[email hidden]... > > I also drive an $800 car that I've had for over 3 years. > > > There's something strangely reassuring about a guy who'll spend more on his

Quoted text (9 lines)

> sim wheel than he spends on his car. Way to go, Mike ;-) > > -- > Slot > > Tweaks & Reviews > www.slottweak.com > >

Bastard. LOLOLOL ;) Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com Mike Grandy <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:LBTZ4.5794$[email hidden]... There you go, insinuating that I agree with his insinuation. (-:

Mike, I grew up around cars and racing. Its in my blood <G> I still get excited driving into the Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, or Porsche dealership! Although I laugh at these 'little' sports cars. Like the Porsche Boxster. Im not sure, but I guess you have to buy two of them and put one on each foot ?? ROFLMAO They weren't made for people built like myself <VBG> I remember the first time I saw the Lotus Esprit. Couldn't believe how low that car was. Only came up to my waist in height. We bought the wife a brand new (at the time) 1999 Volkswagon Beetle GLS. Roomy as hell. But I can't imagine the Audi TT would offer me much head room. But I fit in a C-5 Vette very nicely ;) I got to drive a Ferrari F40 one time not too long ago. Now THAT was awesome! Damn, I need to get rich soon =) Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com Mike Grandy <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RETZ4.5795$[email hidden]... The irony in that Scott was that I owned my own business for 20 years which happened to be a used car dealership. I've driven and owned cars some people only dream about. I am not impressed by cars anymore, guess I just grew out of it.

Think again Dave. The majority of "us" will probably think the same because this majority can't afford an ECCI. Which is a pity, because this way a public's opinion of a company would be decided by the income of this public, which is something on which the company in question doesn't have any influence. --- Joeri J. Cox J_Cox on N3 - ICQ# 60159253 Proud co-founder of 502 Racing European Racing League - http://drive.to/erl "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:[email hidden]... > They're done as far as "I'm" concerned (thanks for the correction).Although I > realize there will always be loyal ECCI supporters, I would venture toguess that > the majority of "us" feel the same. > > --David Cook > > In article <j%NZ4.4578$[email hidden]>,[email hidden] > wrote... > > >Your done as far as we're > > >concerned so you won't be missed. Asta'. > > > > Please don't generalize your opinions to include everyone. > > There will always be loyal ECCI supporters in the sim community.Everyone > > including yourself is entitled to their opinions, but don't insinuate > > everyones is the same. This has always been a sensative subject on theNG. > > > Michael K. Grandy Sr

As a teenager, I got to drive a Lotus Europa. I doubt I could even fit in one now, but if I could, I'd never be able to get out. As I recall, the center console came half way up to my arm pit and the shifter was about 3 inches long. -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com

Scott, You sure sparked a memory. Back in '71 or '72 my girlfirends neighbor had a Lotus Europa. Didn't even come up to my crotch much less my waist. Getting into it was like getting into a beach chair. Closest I've ever come to driving a race car and still remember it very vividly. Thanks, haven't thought about her in years. Rick "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CUTZ4.1157$[email hidden]... Mike, I grew up around cars and racing. Its in my blood <G> I still get excited driving into the Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, or Porsche dealership! Although I laugh at these 'little' sports cars. Like the Porsche Boxster. Im not sure, but I guess you have to buy two of them and put one on each foot ?? ROFLMAO They weren't made for people built like myself <VBG> I remember the first time I saw the Lotus Esprit. Couldn't believe how low that car was. Only came up to my waist in height. We bought the wife a brand new (at the time) 1999 Volkswagon Beetle GLS. Roomy as hell. But I can't imagine the Audi TT would offer me much head room. But I fit in a C-5 Vette very nicely ;) I got to drive a Ferrari F40 one time not too long ago. Now THAT was awesome! Damn, I need to get rich soon =) Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com Mike Grandy <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RETZ4.5795$[email hidden]... The irony in that Scott was that I owned my own business for 20 years which happened to be a used car dealership. I've driven and owned cars some people only dream about. I am not impressed by cars anymore, guess I just grew out of it.

I think this whole thread is absolutely hilarious. I can't stop reading and laughing. Consumer game controllers are in a state of transition to USB and FF. Who wants to go back to the drawing board if they don't have to? Retail is a major pain in the ass because of consumer attitudes. But the crappy consumer attitudes were created by the idiot retailers so who do you blame? Given the current state of retail, if ECCI has the commercial accounts to pull out more power to them. Who could blame anyone for doing so? Andy seems a little pissed about tactics employed by TSW. He has a right to be pissed even though it's a road to nowhere not to mention a waste of time and energy. TSW can't compete on merit, that's a given. The ECCI is obviously a superior product. I own two TSW's, I consider them a better VALUE. Roger Walker <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9ka_4.76$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (67 lines)

> Did ECCI pay you to say that? :o) > > Roger > > David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:S_0_4.230823$[email hidden]... > > He didn't actually accuse you of receiving a wheel from TSW in > exchange for > > a good review. He said your comments resembled those who have. > > > > Of course, I've been accused a number of times by r.a.s. regulars for > liking > > a sim only because I "must of been paid" by the developer, or I wasn't > just > > a beta tester but in actuality was paid by the developer (to get a > whopping > > 20 people here to by the sim and make them rich). > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > AndyCers, > > > > > > It was still extremely irresponsible to insinuate these accusations > > against > > > me with no basis. In fact, you cannot even find a review I did of a > TSW > > > unit. If you want to say that some reviewers or individuals can be > > > 'bought', thats fine. However, next time I suggest you be more > > responsible > > > before accusing a specific person of these actions. > > > > > > -- > > > Scott B. Husted > > > ICQ #4395450 > > > > > > Editor in Chief > > > PowerSims.com > > > > > > > > > AndyCers <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Todd Walker wrote: > > > > > > > > > It is unprofessional and downright rude to assume that just > because > > > > > someone speaks positively of your competitors product, they must > have > > > > > been compensated in some way for their positive comments. I, for > one, > > > > > can't believe that you would insinuate such a thing having no > > > > > knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances of Mr. Husted's > comments. > > > > > > > > We have evidence of many such circumstances. To go into this would > > > > require more > > > > energy than I wish to invest in this matter... especially given > that it > > > > is moot, for we are not actively pursuing this market. > > > > > > > > > > > > >

This coming from the guy who believes NASCAR Racing 4 was delayed because all the resources at Papy were working on patches for Grand Prix Legends <VBG> ;) If I receive emails from people who believe Andy said that I received product in exchange for a good review, it does not matter what he 'meant to say' because the perception is real and it effects my reputation as a reviewer. Many, many companies lurk on this newsgroup. As I stated before Tracey, a simple apology for the wording of his post would have been suffice. For whatever reason, Andy felt he could not do so. Also, as I agree with you about the situation using the word 'niggardly'. However, anyone who uses that word in a public forum is ignorant for thinking they could say that and get away with a word like that (a majority of people who hear it won't know what it means and take it wrong) which could be used as an excuse for a public outcry in our politically correct environment the media has going for us. Lastly, this point is moot. I simply stated my opinion on the market for a $1,500 analog wheel among sim racers. Andy made a post that was worded to insinuate lack of character on my part. I replied and believed I was owed an apology. Its obvious I won't get one so there is no point in continuing this thread. However, I will always defend myself when my integrity it attacked on any level for simply stating my opinion. Intentional or otherwise. -- Scott B. Husted ICQ #4395450 Editor in Chief PowerSims.com Tracey A Miller <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:39393ec9$0$[email hidden]... > This thread reminds of the guy that got fired a couple years ago for > using the word niggardly (stingy) in a speech. It didn't matter that > what he said had nothing to do with what the under-educated listeners > thought he said. They were offended, so he got fired. > > All Andy said was that your opinion was ubiquitous (widespread) and > promulgated (proclaimed) by people who had received free units from > TSW and/or had never even tried an ECCI. > > What that implies isn't that *you* had received a free unit, but that > you had heard that "unbiased" opinion from so many people you had come > to believe it. > > The only thing he really accused you of is not having tried an ECCI. > I'm sure if you told him whose unit you had tried, Andy could call > that customer of his and verify that you had tried one of his > products. > > Then he might feel obligated to apologize, but not for questioning > your ethics but for questioning the source of your opinion; personal > experience or something you had read from a biased source on a web > site. > > > > "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Considering the number of emails i received, I and many others > interpreted > > it that way. Him apologizing and clearing that fact up would have > solved > > it. > > > > -- > > Scott B. Husted > > ICQ #4395450 > > > > Editor in Chief > > PowerSims.com > > > > David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:S_0_4.230823$[email hidden]... > > > He didn't actually accuse you of receiving a wheel from TSW in > exchange > > for > > > a good review. He said your comments resembled those who have. > > > > > > Of course, I've been accused a number of times by r.a.s. regulars > for > > liking > > > a sim only because I "must of been paid" by the developer, or I > wasn't > > just > > > a beta tester but in actuality was paid by the developer (to get a > > whopping > > > 20 people here to by the sim and make them rich). > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > > > > "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > AndyCers, > > > > > > > > It was still extremely irresponsible to insinuate these > accusations > > > against > > > > me with no basis. In fact, you cannot even find a review I did > of a TSW > > > > unit. If you want to say that some reviewers or individuals can > be > > > > 'bought', thats fine. However, next time I suggest you be more > > > responsible > > > > before accusing a specific person of these actions. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Scott B. Husted > > > > ICQ #4395450 > > > > > > > > Editor in Chief > > > > PowerSims.com > > > > > > > > > > > > AndyCers <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > Todd Walker wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > It is unprofessional and downright rude to assume that just > because > > > > > > someone speaks positively of your competitors product, they > must > > have > > > > > > been compensated in some way for their positive comments. I, > for > > one, > > > > > > can't believe that you would insinuate such a thing having > no > > > > > > knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances of Mr. Husted's > comments. > > > > > > > > > > We have evidence of many such circumstances. To go into this > would > > > > > require more > > > > > energy than I wish to invest in this matter... especially > given that > > it > > > > > is moot, for we are not actively pursuing this market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Yeah, that sums it up pretty well, but I can't really blame Andy for being "pissed", reading review after review saying "ECCI quality at 1/3 the price" must drive him crazy. "Todd Dry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I think this whole thread is absolutely hilarious. I can't stopreading and > laughing. > > Consumer game controllers are in a state of transition to USB andFF. Who > wants to go back to the drawing board if they don't have to? > > Retail is a major pain in the ass because of consumer attitudes. Butthe > crappy consumer attitudes were created by the idiot retailers so whodo you > blame? > > Given the current state of retail, if ECCI has the commercialaccounts to > pull out more power to them. Who could blame anyone for doing so? > > Andy seems a little pissed about tactics employed by TSW. He has aright to > be pissed even though it's a road to nowhere not to mention a wasteof time > and energy. TSW can't compete on merit, that's a given. The ECCI is > obviously a superior product. I own two TSW's, I consider them abetter

Quoted text (16 lines)

> VALUE. > > > Roger Walker <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9ka_4.76$[email hidden]... > > Did ECCI pay you to say that? :o) > > > > Roger > > > > David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:S_0_4.230823$[email hidden]... > > > He didn't actually accuse you of receiving a wheel from TSW in > > exchange for > > > a good review. He said your comments resembled those who have. > > > > > > Of course, I've been accused a number of times by r.a.s.

regulars for > > liking > > > a sim only because I "must of been paid" by the developer, or Iwasn't > > just > > > a beta tester but in actuality was paid by the developer (to geta

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > whopping > > > 20 people here to by the sim and make them rich). > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > > > > "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > AndyCers, > > > > > > > > It was still extremely irresponsible to insinuate these

accusations > > > against > > > > me with no basis. In fact, you cannot even find a review Idid of a > > TSW > > > > unit. If you want to say that some reviewers or individualscan be > > > > 'bought', thats fine. However, next time I suggest you bemore

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > > responsible > > > > before accusing a specific person of these actions. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Scott B. Husted > > > > ICQ #4395450 > > > > > > > > Editor in Chief > > > > PowerSims.com > > > > > > > > > > > > AndyCers <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > Todd Walker wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > It is unprofessional and downright rude to assume that

just > > because > > > > > > someone speaks positively of your competitors product,they must > > have > > > > > > been compensated in some way for their positive comments.I, for > > one, > > > > > > can't believe that you would insinuate such a thing havingno > > > > > > knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances of Mr. Husted's > > comments. > > > > > > > > > > We have evidence of many such circumstances. To go into thiswould > > > > > require more > > > > > energy than I wish to invest in this matter... especiallygiven

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > that it > > > > > is moot, for we are not actively pursuing this market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

This thread reminds of the guy that got fired a couple years ago for using the word niggardly (stingy) in a speech. It didn't matter that what he said had nothing to do with what the under-educated listeners thought he said. They were offended, so he got fired. All Andy said was that your opinion was ubiquitous (widespread) and promulgated (proclaimed) by people who had received free units from TSW and/or had never even tried an ECCI. What that implies isn't that *you* had received a free unit, but that you had heard that "unbiased" opinion from so many people you had come to believe it. The only thing he really accused you of is not having tried an ECCI. I'm sure if you told him whose unit you had tried, Andy could call that customer of his and verify that you had tried one of his products. Then he might feel obligated to apologize, but not for questioning your ethics but for questioning the source of your opinion; personal experience or something you had read from a biased source on a web site. "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Considering the number of emails i received, I and many othersinterpreted > it that way. Him apologizing and clearing that fact up would havesolved

Quoted text (12 lines)

> it. > > -- > Scott B. Husted > ICQ #4395450 > > Editor in Chief > PowerSims.com > > David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:S_0_4.230823$[email hidden]... > > He didn't actually accuse you of receiving a wheel from TSW in

exchange > for > > a good review. He said your comments resembled those who have. > > > > Of course, I've been accused a number of times by r.a.s. regularsfor > liking > > a sim only because I "must of been paid" by the developer, or Iwasn't

Quoted text (13 lines)

> just > > a beta tester but in actuality was paid by the developer (to get a > whopping > > 20 people here to by the sim and make them rich). > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > AndyCers, > > > > > > It was still extremely irresponsible to insinuate these

accusations > > against > > > me with no basis. In fact, you cannot even find a review I didof a TSW > > > unit. If you want to say that some reviewers or individuals canbe

Quoted text (17 lines)

> > > 'bought', thats fine. However, next time I suggest you be more > > responsible > > > before accusing a specific person of these actions. > > > > > > -- > > > Scott B. Husted > > > ICQ #4395450 > > > > > > Editor in Chief > > > PowerSims.com > > > > > > > > > AndyCers <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Todd Walker wrote: > > > > > > > > > It is unprofessional and downright rude to assume that just

because > > > > > someone speaks positively of your competitors product, theymust > have > > > > > been compensated in some way for their positive comments. I,for > one, > > > > > can't believe that you would insinuate such a thing havingno > > > > > knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances of Mr. Husted'scomments. > > > > > > > > We have evidence of many such circumstances. To go into thiswould > > > > require more > > > > energy than I wish to invest in this matter... especiallygiven that

Quoted text (9 lines)

> it > > > > is moot, for we are not actively pursuing this market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

In article <RETZ4.5795$[email hidden]>, "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> writes: >The irony in that Scott was that I owned my own business for 20 years = >which happened to be a used car dealership. I've driven and owned cars = >some people only dream about. I am not impressed by cars anymore, guess = >I just grew out of it. Aww, that must have been ROUGH... :) Lessee, if I lived in a cardboard box, ate only bread and water, and saved ALL of my paycheck, it would STILL be almost two years before I could afford a Z3 or Lotus Esprit Turbo(my dream car)... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <hPSZ4.445$[email hidden]>, "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> writes: >> I also drive an $800 car that I've had for over 3 years. > > >There's something strangely reassuring about a guy who'll spend more on his >sim wheel than he spends on his car. Way to go, Mike ;-) > Priorities, huh? Moo!<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <sQRZ4.8976$[email hidden]>, "Joeri Cox" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (14 lines)

>Scott, > >If you have to resort to calling pedals TRACTOR pedals I really can't think >too high of your own skills in choosing the right words. It's actually >pretty childish. It really is. > >However, regarding the pedals: around here in Europe, where we *know* how to >make quality cars better than anywhere, the bigger the cars get, the more >the accelerator pedal looks and works like your so-called 'tractor pedal'. >The reason behind this is that it's so very comfortable. That's what >producing high-end cars like BMW, Mercedes, Saab, Volvo is all about. >Comfort. So why make fun of a company's pedal design when it's widely known >that it's the most comfortable design around? >---

Ok, now you're assuming that Scott even knows what the pedals in those cars even LOOK like. I've never been in ANY of those vehicles. So, if I was describing pedals, I'd have to reference them to something I *had* seen. Which may or may NOT be 'tractor' pedals. Actually, I've never been on a farm, so I couldn't use that. But' you should understand what I mean.... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <woPZ4.5136$[email hidden]>, "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (13 lines)

>>Some people will always buy top of the line - they want it 'just = >because', and >>they have money to burn. > >You're right Eldred. I bought mine just because, just because it was the = >best wheel on the market and since I spent a good many hours using an = >ECCI over the last 4 years it turned out to be a good responsible = >investment. I have tried almost every wheel available in the US and find = >it to be most suitable for my driving style. I also drive an $800 car = >that I've had for over 3 years. I actually use my ECCI more than I use = >my car, so I guess it was as good an investment as my car. >=20 >

LOL! If I had money 'to burn', I *might* have bought one. I admit, it looks cool. But $1500? I inherited my first car, and paid $700 for my second. So, the ECCI cost twice as much as my first two cars COMBINED...<g> After I hit the lotto, though... :) Eldred - who would be PISSED at still being slow with an ECCI... -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Considering the number of emails i received, I and many others interpreted it that way. Him apologizing and clearing that fact up would have solved it. -- Scott B. Husted ICQ #4395450 Editor in Chief PowerSims.com David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:S_0_4.230823$[email hidden]... > He didn't actually accuse you of receiving a wheel from TSW in exchange for > a good review. He said your comments resembled those who have. > > Of course, I've been accused a number of times by r.a.s. regulars for liking > a sim only because I "must of been paid" by the developer, or I wasn't just > a beta tester but in actuality was paid by the developer (to get a whopping > 20 people here to by the sim and make them rich). > > David G Fisher > > > "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > AndyCers, > > > > It was still extremely irresponsible to insinuate these accusations > against > > me with no basis. In fact, you cannot even find a review I did of a TSW > > unit. If you want to say that some reviewers or individuals can be > > 'bought', thats fine. However, next time I suggest you be more > responsible > > before accusing a specific person of these actions. > > > > -- > > Scott B. Husted > > ICQ #4395450 > > > > Editor in Chief > > PowerSims.com > > > > > > AndyCers <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Todd Walker wrote: > > > > > > > It is unprofessional and downright rude to assume that just because > > > > someone speaks positively of your competitors product, they must have > > > > been compensated in some way for their positive comments. I, for one, > > > > can't believe that you would insinuate such a thing having no > > > > knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances of Mr. Husted's comments. > > > > > > We have evidence of many such circumstances. To go into this would > > > require more > > > energy than I wish to invest in this matter... especially given that it > > > is moot, for we are not actively pursuing this market. > > > > > > > >

Dang, with friends that let you drive Ferrari F40's and their race cars who needs to get rich!! I'm jealous! :P "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CUTZ4.1157 I got to drive a Ferrari F40 one time not too long ago. Now THAT was awesome! Damn, I need to get rich soon =)

He didn't actually accuse you of receiving a wheel from TSW in exchange for a good review. He said your comments resembled those who have. Of course, I've been accused a number of times by r.a.s. regulars for liking a sim only because I "must of been paid" by the developer, or I wasn't just a beta tester but in actuality was paid by the developer (to get a whopping 20 people here to by the sim and make them rich). David G Fisher "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > AndyCers, > > It was still extremely irresponsible to insinuate these accusationsagainst > me with no basis. In fact, you cannot even find a review I did of a TSW > unit. If you want to say that some reviewers or individuals can be > 'bought', thats fine. However, next time I suggest you be moreresponsible

Quoted text (27 lines)

> before accusing a specific person of these actions. > > -- > Scott B. Husted > ICQ #4395450 > > Editor in Chief > PowerSims.com > > > AndyCers <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Todd Walker wrote: > > > > > It is unprofessional and downright rude to assume that just because > > > someone speaks positively of your competitors product, they must have > > > been compensated in some way for their positive comments. I, for one, > > > can't believe that you would insinuate such a thing having no > > > knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances of Mr. Husted's comments. > > > > We have evidence of many such circumstances. To go into this would > > require more > > energy than I wish to invest in this matter... especially given that it > > is moot, for we are not actively pursuing this market. > > >

Considering the number of emails i received, I and many others interpreted it that way. Him apologizing and clearing that fact up would have solved it. -- Scott B. Husted ICQ #4395450 Editor in Chief PowerSims.com > He didn't actually accuse you of receiving a wheel from TSW in exchange for > a good review. He said your comments resembled those who have. > Of course, I've been accused a number of times by r.a.s. regulars for liking > a sim only because I "must of been paid" by the developer, or I wasn't just > a beta tester but in actuality was paid by the developer (to get a whopping > 20 people here to by the sim and make them rich). > David G Fisher > > AndyCers, > > It was still extremely irresponsible to insinuate these accusations > against > > me with no basis. In fact, you cannot even find a review I did of a TSW > > unit. If you want to say that some reviewers or individuals can be > > 'bought', thats fine. However, next time I suggest you be more > responsible > > before accusing a specific person of these actions. > > -- > > Scott B. Husted > > ICQ #4395450 > > Editor in Chief > > PowerSims.com > > > > It is unprofessional and downright rude to assume that just because > > > > someone speaks positively of your competitors product, they must have > > > > been compensated in some way for their positive comments. I, for one, > > > > can't believe that you would insinuate such a thing having no > > > > knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances of Mr. Husted's comments. > > > We have evidence of many such circumstances. To go into this would > > > require more > > > energy than I wish to invest in this matter... especially given that it > > > is moot, for we are not actively pursuing this market.

Did ECCI pay you to say that? :o) Roger David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:S_0_4.230823$[email hidden]... > He didn't actually accuse you of receiving a wheel from TSW inexchange for > a good review. He said your comments resembled those who have. > > Of course, I've been accused a number of times by r.a.s. regulars forliking > a sim only because I "must of been paid" by the developer, or I wasn'tjust > a beta tester but in actuality was paid by the developer (to get awhopping

Quoted text (12 lines)

> 20 people here to by the sim and make them rich). > > David G Fisher > > > "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > AndyCers, > > > > It was still extremely irresponsible to insinuate these accusations > against > > me with no basis. In fact, you cannot even find a review I did of a

TSW

Quoted text (18 lines)

> > unit. If you want to say that some reviewers or individuals can be > > 'bought', thats fine. However, next time I suggest you be more > responsible > > before accusing a specific person of these actions. > > > > -- > > Scott B. Husted > > ICQ #4395450 > > > > Editor in Chief > > PowerSims.com > > > > > > AndyCers <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Todd Walker wrote: > > > > > > > It is unprofessional and downright rude to assume that just

because > > > > someone speaks positively of your competitors product, they musthave > > > > been compensated in some way for their positive comments. I, forone, > > > > can't believe that you would insinuate such a thing having no > > > > knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances of Mr. Husted'scomments. > > > > > > We have evidence of many such circumstances. To go into this would > > > require more > > > energy than I wish to invest in this matter... especially giventhat it > > > is moot, for we are not actively pursuing this market. > > > > > > >

No, the point is in my opinion the pedals remind me of the pedals on my grandfathers tractor. My opinion. If they reminded me of the pedals in my spec racer, or my s2000, or my GT-1, or any other vehicle... I would have said so. -- Scott B. Husted ICQ #4395450 Editor in Chief PowerSims.com

Mr. Husted, Jusy FYI, the pedals you are calling '1949 tractor pedals' were engineered for superior comfort in long distance racing, not to 'look like' the pedals in a car. Their design evolved with input from many top sim-racers as well as Labonte Racing. Both of the Labonte brothers provided their input and both own CDS4000 based simulators. I'm not sure if Terry Labonte is using his to plow his field. Andy Cers ECCI Scott B. Husted wrote:

Quoted text (36 lines)

> > You're right Joeri... the ECCI pedals are exact duplicates of the pedals > they use in Mercedes. > > I just couldn't remember the last time I saw a Mercedes plowing a field. > -- > Scott B. Husted > ICQ #4395450 > > Editor in Chief > PowerSims.com > > Joeri Cox <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:IKp_4.9715$[email hidden]... > > Scott, > > > > Obviously trying to be funny be calling pedals 'TRACTOR' pedals (in > > capitals) does *not* effect your reputation as a reviewer? My friend, it > > *kills* your reputation as a reviewer. > > --- > > Joeri J. Cox > > J_Cox on N3 - ICQ# 60159253 > > Proud co-founder of 502 Racing > > > > European Racing League - http://drive.to/erl > > > > "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > > news:[email hidden]... > > > If I receive emails from people who believe Andy said that I received > > > product in exchange for a good review, it does not matter what he 'meant > > to > > > say' because the perception is real and it effects my reputation as a > > > reviewer. Many, many companies lurk on this newsgroup. > > > > > >

Ian, You are correct in stating that it is not necessarily the quality of the components which makes a driver fast. Speed does come primarily from developing mastery through practice. However, equipment can play a role in competition between equally skilled drivers, in simulation racing as well as the real thing. A skilled professional driver in a F3000 car can easily embarrass a lesser driver in an F1 car. When drivers of equal skill compete, equipment becomes a significant factor. The mark of a truly skilled driver is the ability to maximize the potential of the equipment used. In simulation racing, this also applies. Drivers who are not pushing the limits already will not benefit much from a high-end controller. The feel of the experience will be better for every user. But only those with the talent and drive to begin with will go appreciably faster. To go back to why we have chosen to focus on our commercial business exclusively is that the promise of sanctioned, publicly promoted simulation racing has not come to be. The NROS in 1998 was the closest yet. The environment becomes more and more competitive with national exposure and the potential of 'making a living' at sim-racing becomes less of a fantasy. Without this environment it is less justifiable for individuals to invest in a $1200+ controller. If the environment were to change, we may re-address market this in the future. Thanks to all, and good luck racing. Andy Cers ECCI Ian P wrote:

Quoted text (20 lines)

> > Eldred, you may like to know that its not necessarily the quality of the > components which makes people fast. Most of the fastlaps in GPL are done by > people with low spec wheels, I know for a fact that one of the fastest GPL > drivers uses an old TM GP1 !!!!!! > You may as well keep your cash in your wallet, speed comes from practice not > fancy gadgets <G> > > -- > Ian P > <E-mail address invalid due to spam> > > EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > Eldred - who would be PISSED at still being slow with an ECCI... > > -- > > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net > >

Now this is a logical post. I agree and its truly sad that the promise of sanctioned sim racing never materialized, or at the very least has yet to materialize. -- Scott B. Husted ICQ #4395450 Editor in Chief PowerSims.com AndyCers <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > To go back to why we have chosen to focus on our commercial business > exclusively is that the promise of sanctioned, publicly promoted > simulation racing has not come to be. The NROS in 1998 was the closest > yet. The environment becomes more and more competitive with national > exposure and the potential of 'making a living' at sim-racing becomes > less of a fantasy. Without this environment it is less justifiable for > individuals to invest in a $1200+ controller. If the environment were to > change, we may re-address market this in the future. > > Thanks to all, and good luck racing. > Andy Cers > ECCI

You're right Joeri... the ECCI pedals are exact duplicates of the pedals they use in Mercedes. I just couldn't remember the last time I saw a Mercedes plowing a field. -- Scott B. Husted ICQ #4395450 Editor in Chief PowerSims.com Joeri Cox <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IKp_4.9715$[email hidden]... > Scott, > > Obviously trying to be funny be calling pedals 'TRACTOR' pedals (in > capitals) does *not* effect your reputation as a reviewer? My friend, it > *kills* your reputation as a reviewer. > --- > Joeri J. Cox > J_Cox on N3 - ICQ# 60159253 > Proud co-founder of 502 Racing > > European Racing League - http://drive.to/erl > > "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > news:[email hidden]... > > If I receive emails from people who believe Andy said that I received > > product in exchange for a good review, it does not matter what he 'meant > to > > say' because the perception is real and it effects my reputation as a > > reviewer. Many, many companies lurk on this newsgroup. > > >

Scott, Obviously trying to be funny be calling pedals 'TRACTOR' pedals (in capitals) does *not* effect your reputation as a reviewer? My friend, it *kills* your reputation as a reviewer. --- Joeri J. Cox J_Cox on N3 - ICQ# 60159253 Proud co-founder of 502 Racing European Racing League - http://drive.to/erl "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:[email hidden]... > If I receive emails from people who believe Andy said that I received > product in exchange for a good review, it does not matter what he 'meantto > say' because the perception is real and it effects my reputation as a > reviewer. Many, many companies lurk on this newsgroup.

Eldred, you may like to know that its not necessarily the quality of the components which makes people fast. Most of the fastlaps in GPL are done by people with low spec wheels, I know for a fact that one of the fastest GPL drivers uses an old TM GP1 !!!!!! You may as well keep your cash in your wallet, speed comes from practice not fancy gadgets <G> -- Ian P <E-mail address invalid due to spam> EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > Eldred - who would be PISSED at still being slow with an ECCI... > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net >

"AndyCers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > less of a fantasy. Without this environment it is less justifiable for > individuals to invest in a $1200+ controller. If the environment were to Expecially if they can invest less than $200 for a quality FF USB wheel. > change, we may re-address market this in the future. I guess we won't be seeing you much then. -- [email hidden]

"Joeri Cox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:K%x_4.10402$[email hidden]... > You're avoiding the main point Scott, that of a reviewer severely damaging > his reputation by making *fun* of a product's *looks*. Yeah... That is almost as bad as if some ECCI guy would come and post in the NG and slam TSW or something... -- [email hidden]

You're avoiding the main point Scott, that of a reviewer severely damaging his reputation by making *fun* of a product's *looks*. --- Joeri J. Cox J_Cox on N3 - ICQ# 60159253 Proud co-founder of 502 Racing European Racing League - http://drive.to/erl "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (29 lines)

> You're right Joeri... the ECCI pedals are exact duplicates of the pedals > they use in Mercedes. > > I just couldn't remember the last time I saw a Mercedes plowing a field. > -- > Scott B. Husted > ICQ #4395450 > > Editor in Chief > PowerSims.com > > Joeri Cox <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:IKp_4.9715$[email hidden]... > > Scott, > > > > Obviously trying to be funny be calling pedals 'TRACTOR' pedals (in > > capitals) does *not* effect your reputation as a reviewer? My friend, it > > *kills* your reputation as a reviewer. > > --- > > Joeri J. Cox > > J_Cox on N3 - ICQ# 60159253 > > Proud co-founder of 502 Racing > > > > European Racing League - http://drive.to/erl > > > > "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > > news:[email hidden]... > > > If I receive emails from people who believe Andy said that I received > > > product in exchange for a good review, it does not matter what he

'meant

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > to > > > say' because the perception is real and it effects my reputation as a > > > reviewer. Many, many companies lurk on this newsgroup. > > > > > > > >

>>"Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote >>I grew up around cars and racing. Its in my blood <G> I still getexcited driving into the Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, or Porsche dealership! Although I laugh at these 'little' sports cars. Like the Porsche Boxster. Mesa disagree! The joy of small light sports cars is something as thrilling as those big cars will ever give in my opinion. Boxsters, MG's, Fiat Sportscars, all them minis give to me much more fun than any sports-type cars. I feel the car much more. I like it that way! Of course I enjoy big boxes (you'll have to agree with me Volvo's are a blast to drive) but give me a Fiat 500 any day and I'll drive it until the engine explodes :) So... SHUT UP SCOTT <vbg> ;-D -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

ROFL Frank, I wasn't putting down the small cars as fun to drive, just making fun of the fact they weren't manufactured with people like myself in mind ;) Scott PA-Scott PowerSims.com

In article <[email hidden]>, AndyCers <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (11 lines)

>Mr. Husted, > >Jusy FYI, the pedals you are calling '1949 tractor pedals' were >engineered for superior comfort in long distance racing, not to 'look >like' the pedals in a car. Their design evolved with input from many top >sim-racers as well as Labonte Racing. Both of the Labonte brothers >provided their input and both own CDS4000 based simulators. I'm not sure >if Terry Labonte is using his to plow his field. > >Andy Cers >ECCI

I thought you weren't going to respond anymore...? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <Gbu_4.2067$[email hidden]>, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>Eldred, you may like to know that its not necessarily the quality of the >components which makes people fast. Most of the fastlaps in GPL are done by >people with low spec wheels, I know for a fact that one of the fastest GPL >drivers uses an old TM GP1 !!!!!! >You may as well keep your cash in your wallet, speed comes from practice not >fancy gadgets <G> > >--

I understand that. But if I had bought an ECCI, which is supposed to be top of the line, I *would* be pissed... :) Don't worry - I won't waste my money on an ECCI... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ignorance is bliss. Opinions are a dime a dozen. Michael K. Grandy Sr Proud Member of Precision Racing Professional Internet Race Team Powered by ECCI "ECCI - A proud sponsor of the 1998 NROS finals" The CDS4000 was designed for stock car racing... and it delivers NOTICE TO BULK E-MAILERS: Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, p.227, any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to [email hidden] is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of Five-Hundred Dollars U.S. E-Mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. Member of Nass 2000 Pro Online Series Member of OSCAR Freedom Cup Series Member of the National Invitational Series The NIS is sponsored by Thomas Enterprises "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... In article <Gbu_4.2067$[email hidden]>, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>Eldred, you may like to know that its not necessarily the quality of the >components which makes people fast. Most of the fastlaps in GPL are done by >people with low spec wheels, I know for a fact that one of the fastest GPL >drivers uses an old TM GP1 !!!!!! >You may as well keep your cash in your wallet, speed comes from practice not >fancy gadgets <G> > >--

I understand that. But if I had bought an ECCI, which is supposed to be top of the line, I *would* be pissed... :) Don't worry - I won't waste my money on an ECCI... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

After owning many wheels, I can guarantee you these so called tractor pedals are the most comfortable pedals on the market. Much more comfortable than others that will remain nameless. Michael K. Grandy Sr Proud Member of Precision Racing Professional Internet Race Team Powered by ECCI "ECCI - A proud sponsor of the 1998 NROS finals" The CDS4000 was designed for stock car racing... and it delivers NOTICE TO BULK E-MAILERS: Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, p.227, any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to [email hidden] is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of Five-Hundred Dollars U.S. E-Mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. Member of Nass 2000 Pro Online Series Member of OSCAR Freedom Cup Series Member of the National Invitational Series The NIS is sponsored by Thomas Enterprises "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... In article <[email hidden]>, AndyCers <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (11 lines)

>Mr. Husted, > >Jusy FYI, the pedals you are calling '1949 tractor pedals' were >engineered for superior comfort in long distance racing, not to 'look >like' the pedals in a car. Their design evolved with input from many top >sim-racers as well as Labonte Racing. Both of the Labonte brothers >provided their input and both own CDS4000 based simulators. I'm not sure >if Terry Labonte is using his to plow his field. > >Andy Cers >ECCI

I thought you weren't going to respond anymore...? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

hundred. *ONLY* $500-$600. That is a good one! Haha. --

"Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kfV05.23707$[email hidden]... >LOL, no smugness here. My decision went like this. Between the sims I run >regularly and the ones I test for various companies I needed a wheel that >offered the most ease and comfort to use for many hours. I tried all the TM >products and was not satisfied. I contacted TSW when they weren't able to >produce units in a timely fashion. ECCI offered to supply me a unit (CDS2) >within a certain amount of time and the original ones only cost 5-6hundred. *ONLY* $500-$600. That is a good one! Haha. -- [email hidden] >Considering the amount of time I use it and how long it would last it was well >worth it. When I decided to upgrade I was able to get almost all my money >back on the CDS2, matter of fact I could have sold it 20 times. I have since >bought a TSW2 for my son and while it is a good wheel there are many things >I don't like about it. I'll keep those to myself so as not to keep this thread going. >I will tell you that I will have no problem selling my CDS4000 should I ever decide >to sell it and it will probably be worth what I paid for it.