Re: GPL:Anybody got any tips for taming the Nurburgring

Im still working on a way to delete the Ring from my GPL installation without fouling things up ;) This way Im not stupid enough to think, "Just take your time Scott, you will get competitive at this track with practice!" LOL -- Scott B. Husted ICQ #4395450 Editor in Chief PowerSims.com <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8hesok$ej$[email hidden]... > Well, after a long hiatus I got back on GPL and got my Spa time down to > 3:30 in the Brabham. Now I think I should try another track and get > down to around 5% of a decent time. This, along with the new GPL > rankings has taken me to Deutschland and the Nurburgring. Yikes!!!! > This is tough. Most of the corners are blind so you can't see the apex > until after the brake point. Is it possible to memorize this course? > Anyway, I'm down to 9:45 but I still haven't completed a lap without an > incident. I slow down expecting danger which doesn't materialize and I > speed up out of a corner to end up too hot coming into a blind > switchback. I'm thinking a sub 9:00 lap can't be that impossible and > will shave a nice chunk of my ranking (might keep me out of the bottom > 5). Plus, I think that if I can learn to drive the Ring, I'll really > know how to handle the Brabham in all situations. Any help with this > monster would be appreciated. > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

The biggest thing you're gonna have to do to start turning reasonable times at the Ring, is to simply dedicate a lot of time to learning it. And quite simply, it's just not as hard as you might first think. It's just that the circuit is so overwhelming at first, that most people write it off as too damn hard, way too early, without giving the place a fair chance. Put quite simply, don't be surprised if you find that the first lap you turn without wrecking, turns out to be just under the nine minute mark. It took me months of on & off practicing at the place to get to the point that I knew which corner was coming up next. And when you get to that point, you can focus on trying to go just a bit quicker each time around. But first things first...... Start taking laps at the place, one after another, over & over, and think of it like you're driving a real car to work, or to the store, on an old country road. Just like in real life, you may not memorize every single corner, but you'll find that after only a few repetitions, you'll start to recognize familiar sections. And that will only improve with time. Pretty soon, you'll not only think, "Ok, here comes that section with the bank on the left, and I'm gonna catch a bit of air here", but you'll be thinking, "Right after this section, I remember there being two quick rights, one right after another". If you allow yourself the time & dedication, you'll find yourself learning the entire track in this manner. A few more thoughts...... I found that printing off a nice size map of the place with all proper names of the turns was quite helpful. I kept it on my desk beside me, and would revert back to it from time to time. "Let's see.... here's the spot where I keep going off...maybe I need to just take that section slower...". Contrary to a prior post, I found that downloading Greger Huttu's amazing replay helped me tremendously. Lord knows I'm nowhere close to his time, but watching his lap several times repeatedly will give you new inspiration as to just how deep most corners can be taken, and how quickly certain sections can be gone through. I'm not suggesting you try to go as fast as him by no means, but if anything can help you shave off a few seconds off of your own times, Huttu's replays can sure help. Stop trying to go fast at the place. If there was ever a place where 'slower is faster' applied, it's gotta be this place. The faster you go, the more apt you are to wreck. And you'll never be fast if you're average lap has you going off course a few times each lap. The first step to doing a good lap, is to do a lap without going off course and hitting something. Don't give up at this place. It's a damn tough track, but the satisfaction of turning a good lap at the Ring is incredibly more gratifying than turning a good lap at any other track. I personally think that the Nurburgring is by far the greatest racing circuit ever simulated in a racing sim. To think that Papyrus took the time and effort to make it as historically accurate as it is, is awe-inspiring. If you want to see just how accurate to it's real-life counterpart it truly is, then download some of the live footage taken at the real circuit (still driveable in Germany today), and compare for yourself. It's phenomenal. Can ya tell that I love the track? (chuckle) Hope some of this babbling helps..... Have fun, Burke Wells [email hidden]

Hi! Get my program "Ringtrainer" from this link: http://www.joachimblum.de/ringtrainer.htm What the program does is to simply change the position of your car as it is deployed onto the track. This position is defined within the "track.ini"-file. Ringtrainer now lets you chose between 11 different positions along the Nurburgring, each at the beginning of a particular section of the track. The main advatage of this is, that you can now drive through this sections multiple times in series without having to complete a whole lap inbetween. By this you can remember tricky corners faster. Because it's written in German, I will give some installation instructions right here: 1. Download the file called "Ringtrainer.zip" 3. Download the file called "Ringtrainer_Audioupdate.zip" 2. If you don't have the VisualBasic Runtime Modules 6.00, you must also download the file "vbrun600.exe" and execute it. 4. Extract the two Ringtrainer-zips into a single folder. 5. Make a backup of your original "track.ini"-file that is in the "\tracks\nurburg"-folder of your GPL-installation. 6. Copy the "track.ini"-file of the Ringtrainer-folder into the "\tracks\nurburg"-folder. 7. Ready to rumble ;). Fire up Ringtrainer by double-clicking the exe-file. 8. Now you can choose a particular section from the dropdown-list and the program will show you the part of the track redlined in a trackmap and the deploy-point of the car via a little sceenshot. 9. You now have two possibilities to go on: Either you start GPL normally and can start driving from that deploy-point over and over again. Or you check the option "F4 als Hotkey aktivieren" and launch GPL via the "Start GPL"-Button. This will enable the hotkey-feature of Ringtrainer. This feature enables the F4-key as hotkey. Every time you press F4 during playing GPL, Ringtrainer moves you one point forward on the track and gives the actual positioning via voice-output so you don't have to quit GPL to choose another part of the track for training - it can be done while in GPL. Unfortunately this requires some computing-power so I left it optional for those who don't have the big PIII or Athlon under their desk ;). OK, try the program. If you have questions or problems, you can reach me by the mail-address given on the Ringtrainer-page. If there is further interest in this program, I'll maybe make an English version. Sorry for my bad English btw. Have Fun @ the Ring!! Regards Crash

Well, after a long hiatus I got back on GPL and got my Spa time down to 3:30 in the Brabham. Now I think I should try another track and get down to around 5% of a decent time. This, along with the new GPL rankings has taken me to Deutschland and the Nurburgring. Yikes!!!! This is tough. Most of the corners are blind so you can't see the apex until after the brake point. Is it possible to memorize this course? Anyway, I'm down to 9:45 but I still haven't completed a lap without an incident. I slow down expecting danger which doesn't materialize and I speed up out of a corner to end up too hot coming into a blind switchback. I'm thinking a sub 9:00 lap can't be that impossible and will shave a nice chunk of my ranking (might keep me out of the bottom 5). Plus, I think that if I can learn to drive the Ring, I'll really know how to handle the Brabham in all situations. Any help with this monster would be appreciated. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

One thing to avoid is going to Shubi's site and downloading Huttu's world's record replay. It is enough to make a grown man cry and venture no farther than the safety of the 6 (?) turns at Monza. One of my problems (other than being slow) is finding time to do 5 or 6 laps. That represents at least an hour of my time! I am still trying to complete a lap at The 'Ring just to get a time!! Once I do then perhaps I can take over that bottom 5 GPL ranking position. Good luck Larry [email hidden] wrote:

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> > Well, after a long hiatus I got back on GPL and got my Spa time down to > 3:30 in the Brabham. Now I think I should try another track and get > down to around 5% of a decent time. This, along with the new GPL > rankings has taken me to Deutschland and the Nurburgring. Yikes!!!! > This is tough. Most of the corners are blind so you can't see the apex > until after the brake point. Is it possible to memorize this course? > Anyway, I'm down to 9:45 but I still haven't completed a lap without an > incident. I slow down expecting danger which doesn't materialize and I > speed up out of a corner to end up too hot coming into a blind > switchback. I'm thinking a sub 9:00 lap can't be that impossible and > will shave a nice chunk of my ranking (might keep me out of the bottom > 5). Plus, I think that if I can learn to drive the Ring, I'll really > know how to handle the Brabham in all situations. Any help with this > monster would be appreciated. > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

On Mon, 05 Jun 2000 00:37:41 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

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>Well, after a long hiatus I got back on GPL and got my Spa time down to >3:30 in the Brabham. Now I think I should try another track and get >down to around 5% of a decent time. This, along with the new GPL >rankings has taken me to Deutschland and the Nurburgring. Yikes!!!! >This is tough. Most of the corners are blind so you can't see the apex >until after the brake point. Is it possible to memorize this course? >Anyway, I'm down to 9:45 but I still haven't completed a lap without an >incident. I slow down expecting danger which doesn't materialize and I >speed up out of a corner to end up too hot coming into a blind >switchback. I'm thinking a sub 9:00 lap can't be that impossible and >will shave a nice chunk of my ranking (might keep me out of the bottom

After 75 to 100 laps you can lay on your back in bed and run a tape of the whole thing thru your head.Memorizing it is not too difficult. The difficult thing is to push it hard for a whole lap w/o making a big error. After a while when you come around a bend you suddenly realize what's ahead for the next few turns, and then the sections start linking together. 8:36 and working. Sam

Yep, get the eagle, st it up quite soft so it is slow in its response and do most of the track in 3rd gear....on the torque, not on the power. <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message : 8hesok$ej$[email hidden]...

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> Well, after a long hiatus I got back on GPL and got my Spa time down to > 3:30 in the Brabham. Now I think I should try another track and get > down to around 5% of a decent time. This, along with the new GPL > rankings has taken me to Deutschland and the Nurburgring. Yikes!!!! > This is tough. Most of the corners are blind so you can't see the apex > until after the brake point. Is it possible to memorize this course? > Anyway, I'm down to 9:45 but I still haven't completed a lap without an > incident. I slow down expecting danger which doesn't materialize and I > speed up out of a corner to end up too hot coming into a blind > switchback. I'm thinking a sub 9:00 lap can't be that impossible and > will shave a nice chunk of my ranking (might keep me out of the bottom > 5). Plus, I think that if I can learn to drive the Ring, I'll really > know how to handle the Brabham in all situations. Any help with this > monster would be appreciated. > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

The single biggest improvement I made after knowing which way the track went next (after 30-40 laps) and I'd gotten into the 8m45's was really pushing where it is safe to do so... good for nearly 10 seconds on average. Jan. =--- <[email hidden]> wrote... > Well, after a long hiatus I got back on GPL and got my Spa time down to > 3:30 in the Brabham. <snip>

In article <8hesok$ej$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... >Well, after a long hiatus I got back on GPL and got my Spa time down to >3:30 in the Brabham. I can do 3:21's there in a Brabham.

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>Now I think I should try another track and get >down to around 5% of a decent time. This, along with the new GPL >rankings has taken me to Deutschland and the Nurburgring. Yikes!!!! >This is tough. Most of the corners are blind so you can't see the apex >until after the brake point. Is it possible to memorize this course? >Anyway, I'm down to 9:45 but I still haven't completed a lap without an >incident. I slow down expecting danger which doesn't materialize and I >speed up out of a corner to end up too hot coming into a blind >switchback. I'm thinking a sub 9:00 lap can't be that impossible and >will shave a nice chunk of my ranking (might keep me out of the bottom >5). Plus, I think that if I can learn to drive the Ring, I'll really >know how to handle the Brabham in all situations. Any help with this >monster would be appreciated.

Break the track into large chunks instead of single turns. Learn to recognize the landmarks leading up to difficult sections. I'm doing 8:33 in a Brabham there - not the fastest, but damn respectable. -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html Barbarian Diecast Collector (420+ cars and counting) http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html DeMONS Scheduler for N3 and NL http://www.paddedwall.org/demons If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

A good online tutorial for the Ring can be found at: http://www.oppositelock.freeserve.co.uk/gpl.html -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Joachim Blum <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8hg8rb$n37$10$[email hidden]... >Hi!<snip stuff about interesting program> >Sorry for my bad English btw. Is that some sort of joke? The English in your e-mail is better than many contributors to r.a.s. who claim it as their first language. Tony Whitley Ein, Zwei, Drei, errm, knowledge of German exhausted.

Drive the car as fast as it will go....not as fast as you want it to go:) "Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> wrote in message news:N4O_4.6831$[email hidden]...

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> > Joachim Blum <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8hg8rb$n37$10$[email hidden]... > >Hi! > <snip stuff about interesting program> > >Sorry for my bad English btw. > > Is that some sort of joke? The English in your e-mail is better than many > contributors to r.a.s. who claim it as their first language. > > Tony Whitley > Ein, Zwei, Drei, errm, knowledge of German exhausted. > >

>Ein, Zwei, Drei, errm, knowledge of German exhausted. No, no. Sudkehre, Nordkehre, Hatzenbach, Hocheichen, Quiddelbacher Hohe, and so on... there's plenty of German you know, Tony ;) Seriously. That Ringtrainer must be a wonderful tool. I still know the first half of the Ring much better than the rest from giving up after half a lap so many times! I'll try it even though I don't really need it any more (not that my 8:20 Ferrari laps can't do with improving). -Laurens de Jong, The Netherlands. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

What a superb utility. Now I might finally break 9 minutes. I'd experimented with moving the pits but this makes it so much easier. Here's one vote for an English version as well. Cheers Phil

Thanks everyone. I'll let you know when I can break 9:00 consistently. I hope it doesn't take too long :-)

<[email hidden]> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: [email hidden]... Hi! > Hi. Thanks for creating this cool utility. It worked for me but was > very very slow (slide show). I have a pretty fast computer p3-733 > geforce 192 ram so I figured the sound would be ok. I'll reinstall > without the sound files but I wonder if it is my vb runtimes slowing > me down? Hmm, I have an Athlon 600 with 128 mb ram and V3-3000 and it works perfectly for me - no hit in the framerates at all. Maybe it's your runtimes? Did you download the latest ones (v6.00) from the Ringtrainer-page? Regards Crash

In article <8hesok$ej$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes <snip>

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> I'm thinking a sub 9:00 lap can't be that impossible and >will shave a nice chunk of my ranking (might keep me out of the bottom >5). Plus, I think that if I can learn to drive the Ring, I'll really >know how to handle the Brabham in all situations. Any help with this >monster would be appreciated. > >

If you don't want to spend too long at any one time on the ring then a good way to learn is to set the car to 2 laps and go and drive it - making sure damage is off and don't worry about the number of spins. Should take less than 20 minutes. Do this at the beginning of each GPL session before going on to whatever else you had planned for GPL. This way you're not getting overly frustrated with the track as you are taking it in small chunks, can come back to it refreshed next time around and you'll soon start to remember the layout. Also, don't get discouraged if you hit an impass for a while and you don't think you can improve. Every time I've thought 'that's it, there's no way I'm going to get any better at this track, I've reached my limit.' It just hasn't been the case. When I got down to 8:30 I thought I was really pushing the car to its extremes and yet now I'm down to 8:09 and thinking the same thing. There really is so much scope you'll look back amazed and wonder how you could ever have been that slow. Getting under 9 minutes seems like an impossible target at first, but believe me, once you know this track like the back of your hand you can do sub 9 minutes and it will feel like you're not even pushing. Good luck with your exploits. :) -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Very handy util, thanks! Andre On Mon, 5 Jun 2000 15:12:06 +0200, "Joachim Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Hi! >Regards >Crash >

Hi. Thanks for creating this cool utility. It worked for me but was very very slow (slide show). I have a pretty fast computer p3-733 geforce 192 ram so I figured the sound would be ok. I'll reinstall without the sound files but I wonder if it is my vb runtimes slowing me down? On Mon, 5 Jun 2000 15:12:06 +0200, "Joachim Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Hi! > >Get my program "Ringtrainer" from this link: >http://www.joachimblum.de/ringtrainer.htm

Tim Vanhee <[email hidden]> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: 16q%4.109829$[email hidden]... > Me too. down to 17fps on myC566, 32mb TNT2 Hi! Then it seems to be a problem only for users of the opengl-patch. Does the frameratehit occur only if you chose the hotkey-option or every time you run Ringtrainer in the background (i. e. not launch GPL with the button but leave Ringtariner running)? Regards Crash

Thanks for the insight and motivation. I need it :-) Christian Hansen In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Ives <[email hidden]> wrote: > In article <8hesok$ej$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > writes > <snip> > > I'm thinking a sub 9:00 lap can't be that impossible and > >will shave a nice chunk of my ranking (might keep me out of thebottom

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> >5). Plus, I think that if I can learn to drive the Ring, I'll really > >know how to handle the Brabham in all situations. Any help with this > >monster would be appreciated. > > > > > > If you don't want to spend too long at any one time on the ring then a > good way to learn is to set the car to 2 laps and go and drive it - > making sure damage is off and don't worry about the number of spins. > Should take less than 20 minutes. Do this at the beginning of each

GPL > session before going on to whatever else you had planned for GPL.This

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> way you're not getting overly frustrated with the track as you are > taking it in small chunks, can come back to it refreshed next time > around and you'll soon start to remember the layout. > > Also, don't get discouraged if you hit an impass for a while and you > don't think you can improve. Every time I've thought 'that's it, > there's no way I'm going to get any better at this track, I've reached > my limit.' It just hasn't been the case. When I got down to 8:30 I > thought I was really pushing the car to its extremes and yet now I'm > down to 8:09 and thinking the same thing. There really is so much

scope > you'll look back amazed and wonder how you could ever have been that > slow. Getting under 9 minutes seems like an impossible target atfirst, > but believe me, once you know this track like the back of your handyou

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> can do sub 9 minutes and it will feel like you're not even pushing. > > Good luck with your exploits. :) > > -- > Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) > > No person's opinions can be said to be > more correct than another's, because each is > the sole judge of his or her own experience. >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Enough for ordering beer at the Oktoberfest ;-) On Mon, 5 Jun 2000 14:36:28 +0100, "Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> wrote: <snip> >Ein, Zwei, Drei, errm, knowledge of German exhausted. > --------------------------------------------- [email hidden] Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address JensSchumi homepage at http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/ Racing simulation, esp. GPL Logitech Wingman FF optimization Classic cars, esp. Morris Minor Radio controlled airplanes

Hi Joachim, Excellent utility. Nurburgring is now more of a pleasure than a chore :) -Keith Joachim Blum wrote:

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> Hi! > > Get my program "Ringtrainer" from this link: > http://www.joachimblum.de/ringtrainer.htm > What the program does is to simply change the position of your car as it is deployed onto the track. This position is defined within the "track.ini"-file. Ringtrainer now lets you chose between 11 different positions along the Nurburgring, each at the beginning of a particular section of the track. The main advatage of this is, that you can now drive through this sections multiple times in series without having to complete a whole lap inbetween. By this you can remember tricky corners faster. > Because it's written in German, I will give some installation instructions right here: > 1. Download the file called "Ringtrainer.zip" > 3. Download the file called "Ringtrainer_Audioupdate.zip" > 2. If you don't have the VisualBasic Runtime Modules 6.00, you must also download the file "vbrun600.exe" and execute it. > 4. Extract the two Ringtrainer-zips into a single folder. > 5. Make a backup of your original "track.ini"-file that is in the "\tracks\nurburg"-folder of your GPL-installation. > 6. Copy the "track.ini"-file of the Ringtrainer-folder into the "\tracks\nurburg"-folder. > 7. Ready to rumble ;). Fire up Ringtrainer by double-clicking the exe-file. > 8. Now you can choose a particular section from the dropdown-list and the program will show you the part of the track redlined in a trackmap and the deploy-point of the car via a little sceenshot. > 9. You now have two possibilities to go on: > Either you start GPL normally and can start driving from that deploy-point over and over again. > Or you check the option "F4 als Hotkey aktivieren" and launch GPL via the "Start GPL"-Button. This will enable the hotkey-feature of Ringtrainer. This feature enables the F4-key as hotkey. Every time you press F4 during playing GPL, Ringtrainer moves you one point forward on the track and gives the actual positioning via voice-output so you don't have to quit GPL to choose another part of the track for training - it can be done while in GPL. Unfortunately this requires some computing-power so I left it optional for those who don't have the big PIII or Athlon under their desk ;). > OK, try the program. If you have questions or problems, you can reach me by the mail-address given on the Ringtrainer-page. > If there is further interest in this program, I'll maybe make an English version. > Sorry for my bad English btw. > Have Fun @ the Ring!! > > Regards > Crash

Me too. down to 17fps on myC566, 32mb TNT2 <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws [email hidden]...

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> Hi. Thanks for creating this cool utility. It worked for me but was > very very slow (slide show). I have a pretty fast computer p3-733 > geforce 192 ram so I figured the sound would be ok. I'll reinstall > without the sound files but I wonder if it is my vb runtimes slowing > me down? > > > > > > On Mon, 5 Jun 2000 15:12:06 +0200, "Joachim Blum" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Hi! > > > >Get my program "Ringtrainer" from this link: > >http://www.joachimblum.de/ringtrainer.htm >

I just tried it again. I started from the utility without the hotkey option. No problem at all. I exited gpl and enabled the hotkey. Started gpl from within ringtrainer. Very choppy. Exit gpl, let ringtrainer running, disabled the hotkey, restart gpl: same choppy thing. Exit gpl, exit ringtrainer, restart ringtr. without the hotkey, start gpl from within ringtr.: no problemo. It has something to do with that hotkey IMO. Joachim Blum <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws 8hld92$dbv$11$[email hidden]... Tim Vanhee <[email hidden]> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: 16q%4.109829$[email hidden]... > Me too. down to 17fps on myC566, 32mb TNT2 Hi! Then it seems to be a problem only for users of the opengl-patch. Does the frameratehit occur only if you chose the hotkey-option or every time you run Ringtrainer in the background (i. e. not launch GPL with the button but leave Ringtariner running)? Regards Crash

Tim Vanhee <[email hidden]> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: _6t%4.111159$[email hidden]... Hi Tim!

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> I just tried it again. > I started from the utility without the hotkey option. No problem at all. > I exited gpl and enabled the hotkey. Started gpl from within ringtrainer. > Very choppy. > Exit gpl, let ringtrainer running, disabled the hotkey, restart gpl: same > choppy thing. > Exit gpl, exit ringtrainer, restart ringtr. without the hotkey, start gpl > from within ringtr.: no problemo. > It has something to do with that hotkey IMO.

Ok, thanks for that information. Fact is, that on my system (Athlon600, V3-3000) there is no hit in the frame-rate at all. So, IMHO, it has to do with the opengl-driver, which is still beta and therefore needs more computing-power. Btw: Once you have enabled the hotkey, it is active until you exit Ringtrainer. Unchecking the option will _not_ deactivate it. I will address this in the next version. And I will also try to code a new hotkey-routine which will be useful for the non-glide-drivers among us ;). But all this I cannot do until end of next week because I've got a lot of other things to work on. So be patient, the patch will come soon, but you have to wait a little, ok? I'll announce here at r.a.s. when it's available. So far for now. Thanks for your coop!! Regards Crash