Re: I've put my money where my mouth is (GPL)

On Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:21:38 GMT, "Harjan Brand" <[email hidden]> wrote: [snip] >If more of us would do this we would sent out a message to Papy/Sierra that >we're willing to pay more for sims like GPL. I can honestly say that I would >pay 5 times the regular amount for GPL 2 (based on the turbo era). Buy 100,000 more copies, and you might get your wish! Tim

Do you plan to support MGI, ISI, and EA in a similar manner? Viper Racing, SCGT, F1 2000, and NFS:PU are all excellent products that go quite a ways towards furthering the state of realism in driving/racing simulations. These games all exhibit realistic driving and physics models that aspire towards the GPL end of the spectrum, and each of these titles helps bring greater overall diversity to the genre, thus attracting more potential sim racing enthusiasts, which in turn helps increase the possibility that we will see more realistic simulators from game companies in the future. Papyrus is at the mercy of Sierra/Havas -- ultimately, Papyrus will only produce what their corporate masters allow. To limit our support to one company such as Papyrus only sends one message to game developers in general: Realistic racing simulations do not sell unless they're from Papyrus. With this kind of a message, all that we can be sure of is that we probably continue to see an endless string of NASCAR titles from Papyrus, since the NASCAR license is obviously Papyrus' number-one moneymaker. Which is great if you love NASCAR sims and nothing else, I suppose. This doesn't necessarily seem like the best path to achieving something like a turbo-era F1 simulation with GPL-calibur physics, though. In the end, while it is admirable to vote with your wallet and to follow your heart, you still have to make sure that the brain comes into play somewhere in the process. -- JB In article <m16%4.254$%[email hidden]>, "Harjan Brand" <[email hidden]> wrote: > I've said before that I would do it and I would love others to do itas > well. I've just bought 5 copies of GPL to show Papy my support to the > wonderful product they made. The copies were only $ 15 a piece so Iam not > supporting them financially but it's just to show them how much theirwork > is appreciated by me. > If more of us would do this we would sent out a message toPapy/Sierra that > we're willing to pay more for sims like GPL. I can honestly say thatI would > pay 5 times the regular amount for GPL 2 (based on the turbo era). > > I'm not sending this copies around, so please don't ask, I'll sentone copy > to the dutch tv station that broadcasts F1. > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Probably.

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> You are mad. > > I've said before that I would do it and I would love others to do it as > > well. I've just bought 5 copies of GPL to show Papy my support to the > > wonderful product they made. The copies were only $ 15 a piece so I am

not > > supporting them financially but it's just to show them how much their work > > is appreciated by me. > > If more of us would do this we would sent out a message to Papy/Sierra that > > we're willing to pay more for sims like GPL. I can honestly say that I would > > pay 5 times the regular amount for GPL 2 (based on the turbo era). > > I'm not sending this copies around, so please don't ask, I'll sent one copy > > to the dutch tv station that broadcasts F1. > -- > Steve

[snip] Buy 100,000 more copies, and you might get your wish! Tim

You are mad. Harjan Brand wrote:

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> I've said before that I would do it and I would love others to do it as > well. I've just bought 5 copies of GPL to show Papy my support to the > wonderful product they made. The copies were only $ 15 a piece so I am not > supporting them financially but it's just to show them how much their work > is appreciated by me. > If more of us would do this we would sent out a message to Papy/Sierra that > we're willing to pay more for sims like GPL. I can honestly say that I would > pay 5 times the regular amount for GPL 2 (based on the turbo era). > > I'm not sending this copies around, so please don't ask, I'll sent one copy > to the dutch tv station that broadcasts F1.

-- Steve

Harjan, This might sound silly, but you could have sent the $75 directly to Papy.... Or me, or whatever. : ] Andrew Harjan Brand wrote:

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> I've said before that I would do it and I would love others to do it as > well. I've just bought 5 copies of GPL to show Papy my support to the > wonderful product they made. The copies were only $ 15 a piece so I am not > supporting them financially but it's just to show them how much their work > is appreciated by me. > If more of us would do this we would sent out a message to Papy/Sierra that > we're willing to pay more for sims like GPL. I can honestly say that I would > pay 5 times the regular amount for GPL 2 (based on the turbo era). > > I'm not sending this copies around, so please don't ask, I'll sent one copy > to the dutch tv station that broadcasts F1.

Hi Harjan, When I get GPL 2, I'll gladly pick up an extra copy and sell it to you for $250, then I will write a nice letter to our friends at Papyrus telling them how much you appreciate their craftsmanship. (I'm kidding! Kidding! Settle down.) I am looking forward to this too. I know how you feel about seeing a great product so cheap. I empathize with inanimate objects too, like the clown in the little machine where you put a quarter in and he does a little dance, and then you get a little plastic egg with a toy in it. It's like he has no real friends. Andrew Harjan Brand wrote:

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> I don't really agree, all I want to show (and I need others to follow my > example to bring over the message) is that I'm willing to pay 5 times the > regular price. I'm not planning on paying an additional $250 for GPL but I > will pay it for GPL2. > > I was in a bit of a strange mood and felt so bad about seeing GPL on the > shelves for only $15

I've said before that I would do it and I would love others to do it as well. I've just bought 5 copies of GPL to show Papy my support to the wonderful product they made. The copies were only $ 15 a piece so I am not supporting them financially but it's just to show them how much their work is appreciated by me. If more of us would do this we would sent out a message to Papy/Sierra that we're willing to pay more for sims like GPL. I can honestly say that I would pay 5 times the regular amount for GPL 2 (based on the turbo era). I'm not sending this copies around, so please don't ask, I'll sent one copy to the dutch tv station that broadcasts F1.

:-) Out of interest - whereabouts is it selling at that price? Last time I saw it they wanted �34 - (about $60). Harjan Brand wrote:

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> Probably. > > "Steven Crook-Dawkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > You are mad. > > > > Harjan Brand wrote: > > > > > I've said before that I would do it and I would love others to do it as > > > well. I've just bought 5 copies of GPL to show Papy my support to the > > > wonderful product they made. The copies were only $ 15 a piece so I am > not > > > supporting them financially but it's just to show them how much their > work > > > is appreciated by me. > > > If more of us would do this we would sent out a message to Papy/Sierra > that > > > we're willing to pay more for sims like GPL. I can honestly say that I > would > > > pay 5 times the regular amount for GPL 2 (based on the turbo era). > > > > > > I'm not sending this copies around, so please don't ask, I'll sent one > copy > > > to the dutch tv station that broadcasts F1. > > > > -- > > Steve > >

-- Steven Crook-Dawkins - Research Assistant - University of York. Email Disclaimer ---------------------- The information in this email is confidential. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. The views expressed in this email are those of the author, and should not be attributed to the University of York, BAE SYSTEMS or any other party.

I ordered it from www.dragon.ca... $15 us plus shipping. Andrew Steven Crook-Dawkins wrote:

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> :-) > > Out of interest - whereabouts is it selling at that price? Last time > I saw it they wanted �34 - (about $60). > > Harjan Brand wrote: > > > Probably. > > > > "Steven Crook-Dawkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > You are mad. > > > > > > Harjan Brand wrote: > > > > > > > I've said before that I would do it and I would love others to do it as > > > > well. I've just bought 5 copies of GPL to show Papy my support to the > > > > wonderful product they made. The copies were only $ 15 a piece so I am > > not > > > > supporting them financially but it's just to show them how much their > > work > > > > is appreciated by me. > > > > If more of us would do this we would sent out a message to Papy/Sierra > > that > > > > we're willing to pay more for sims like GPL. I can honestly say that I > > would > > > > pay 5 times the regular amount for GPL 2 (based on the turbo era). > > > > > > > > I'm not sending this copies around, so please don't ask, I'll sent one > > copy > > > > to the dutch tv station that broadcasts F1. > > > > > > -- > > > Steve > > > > > -- > Steven Crook-Dawkins - Research Assistant - University of York. > > Email Disclaimer > ---------------------- > The information in this email is confidential. > It is intended solely for the addressee. > Access to this email by anyone else is > unauthorised. > > The views expressed in this email are those of > the author, and should not be attributed to the > University of York, BAE SYSTEMS or any > other party.

Send a box to Alan De Cadenay (misspelled?) care of SpeedVision! I've been thinking about trying to contact him via email through their site and enquire if he's aware of the sim and if he's ever tried it. He's one guy that would appreciate GPL, I'm certain. Regards, Brett C. Cammack That's Racing! Motorsports Pompano Beach, FL

Seems a bit of a waste though! Go and try to convert some arcade racers.....show them the error of their ways :) Ash http://www.race-timing.com | | I'm not sending this copies around, so please don't ask

Probably. "Steven Crook-Dawkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> You are mad. > > Harjan Brand wrote: > > > I've said before that I would do it and I would love others to do it as > > well. I've just bought 5 copies of GPL to show Papy my support to the > > wonderful product they made. The copies were only $ 15 a piece so I am

not > > supporting them financially but it's just to show them how much theirwork > > is appreciated by me. > > If more of us would do this we would sent out a message to Papy/Sierrathat > > we're willing to pay more for sims like GPL. I can honestly say that Iwould > > pay 5 times the regular amount for GPL 2 (based on the turbo era). > > > > I'm not sending this copies around, so please don't ask, I'll sent onecopy > > to the dutch tv station that broadcasts F1. > > -- > Steve >

I don't really agree, all I want to show (and I need others to follow my example to bring over the message) is that I'm willing to pay 5 times the regular price. I'm not planning on paying an additional $250 for GPL but I will pay it for GPL2. I was in a bit of a strange mood and felt so bad about seeing GPL on the shelves for only $15

In Holland it's selling for $15. "Steven Crook-Dawkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> :-) > > Out of interest - whereabouts is it selling at that price? Last time > I saw it they wanted �34 - (about $60). > > Harjan Brand wrote: > > > Probably. > > > > "Steven Crook-Dawkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > You are mad. > > > > > > Harjan Brand wrote: > > > > > > > I've said before that I would do it and I would love others to do itas > > > > well. I've just bought 5 copies of GPL to show Papy my support tothe > > > > wonderful product they made. The copies were only $ 15 a piece so Iam > > not > > > > supporting them financially but it's just to show them how muchtheir > > work > > > > is appreciated by me. > > > > If more of us would do this we would sent out a message toPapy/Sierra > > that > > > > we're willing to pay more for sims like GPL. I can honestly say thatI > > would > > > > pay 5 times the regular amount for GPL 2 (based on the turbo era). > > > > > > > > I'm not sending this copies around, so please don't ask, I'll sentone

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> > copy > > > > to the dutch tv station that broadcasts F1. > > > > > > -- > > > Steve > > > > > -- > Steven Crook-Dawkins - Research Assistant - University of York. > > Email Disclaimer > ---------------------- > The information in this email is confidential. > It is intended solely for the addressee. > Access to this email by anyone else is > unauthorised. > > The views expressed in this email are those of > the author, and should not be attributed to the > University of York, BAE SYSTEMS or any > other party. > >

If you take care of the contact you can use one of my copies if he's interested. "Brett C. Cammack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Send a box to Alan De Cadenay (misspelled?) care of SpeedVision! I've > been thinking about trying to contact him via email through their site > and enquire if he's aware of the sim and if he's ever tried it. He's > one guy that would appreciate GPL, I'm certain. > > Regards, > Brett C. Cammack > That's Racing! Motorsports > Pompano Beach, FL

Okay, I understand your intentions better now, and I have to say I do agree to a large extent. A high-end sim aimed at the niche market, rather than the mass-market, is indeed a do-able concept, and this is being done by at least one company in the flight sim genre, I believe -- I seem to recall reading something in PC Gamer recently about a new version of a fairly popular high-end air transport sim that is being sold for $250 or so, with no intention of ever releasing it on the mass market (Electronics Boutique, CompUSA, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc.). This type of thing requires a high level of support from the niche market (the intended audience), but it also requires a high degree of dedication on the part of the developer, too. It almost has to be a labor of love for the developer, and with corporate masters like Sierra/Havas who have to answer to shareholders and watch the profit margins, Papyrus may not be in a position where they have the luxury of pursuing labors of love any further. GPL obviously WAS a labor of love, and kudos to Papy for that, but the NASCAR license represents "golden handcuffs" for them right now -- it's worth a lot of money, and it brings in a lot of money, so it's going to be their main focus from here on out, most likely. The down side is also that many of the original Papyrus people who helped bring us their early labors of love like ICR2 are now gone. Thankfully, their now working at companies like MGI, so hopefully GPL will not be the last of its kind. ICR2 had a lot of potential, and it was open enough to serve as the basis for various other third-party "conversions," but ultimately, no matter how good it was or how adaptable it was, it is starting to seem very long in the tooth. A simple D3D patch from Papy would be enough to make ICR2 worthy of a re-release as a new Indy or CART sim, but they have not seen fit to do that, either as a profitable corporate pursuit, or as a labor of love. ICR2 is not quite dead yet, but it's certainly dying out rapidly (how long can the purists continue to cling to their 4- and 8-MB Rendition cards, with no DX7 drivers in sight?); GPL will ultimately follow suit, I fear, which is a shame. In my opinion, the West brothers' WSC game may be the closest thing we will see in the near future that represents a niche market "labor of love"-type thing. Maybe we should be trying to convince THEM to use their work on that as the basis for an ultimate top-end driving sim aimed at the niche market and distributed through alternative marketing channels. Still, now that I understand your motivations a little better, I do applaud your intentions. Now, let's all go to work on the West brothers! -- JB In article <Wlp%4.370$%[email hidden]>, "Harjan Brand" <[email hidden]> wrote: > It's quite obvious that most of you don't understand my intentions.There > were still about 20 copies on the shelves so don't worry about newplayers. > I was hoping on getting some action going of more people doing thesame > thing. When that would happen world wide you can bet Sierra wouldstart to > notice it. Not because their profits would go up but just that aproduct > that didn't sell is being sold 5 copies a time. That signal couldshow them > how much GPL means to the hardcore simmer. Not that they care butthat would > make the dollar signs in their eyes go 'kadingeding'. And that's allthat we > need to do. > Guys, I'm not mad, not stupid, I'm just one of the few guys trying tokeep > the GPL legend alive and evolving. I've already had very positivereactions > from the tv station and if all goes well they'll put in a specialfeauture > for GPL. Why don't you guys understand that GPL is far too hard and > therefore unsatisfying for the average gamer. I don't want Papy tomake it > easier, I want them to go out and sell to the the real and create new > simmers from people who like real racing. With the sim of GPL qualitythat's > possible, I've said it before. Place the product in a niche market,ask a > higher price, don't advertise it as a game, only in the more autosport > focussed magazines and you'll see the sales go up and with the higher > margins (less advertising, less distribution costs (don't put it inthe > store, only online)) they can actually make a profit from doing whatthey > like most. They're caught up in the traditional way of selling gamesas is > invented by Sierra. Drop it. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

is this how you end up when you play GPL for too long? Sudesh Harjan Brand wrote:

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> > It's quite obvious that most of you don't understand my intentions. There > were still about 20 copies on the shelves so don't worry about new players. > I was hoping on getting some action going of more people doing the same > thing. When that would happen world wide you can bet Sierra would start to > notice it. Not because their profits would go up but just that a product > that didn't sell is being sold 5 copies a time. That signal could show them > how much GPL means to the hardcore simmer. Not that they care but that would > make the dollar signs in their eyes go 'kadingeding'. And that's all that we > need to do. > Guys, I'm not mad, not stupid, I'm just one of the few guys trying to keep > the GPL legend alive and evolving. I've already had very positive reactions > from the tv station and if all goes well they'll put in a special feauture > for GPL. Why don't you guys understand that GPL is far too hard and > therefore unsatisfying for the average gamer. I don't want Papy to make it > easier, I want them to go out and sell to the the real and create new > simmers from people who like real racing. With the sim of GPL quality that's > possible, I've said it before. Place the product in a niche market, ask a > higher price, don't advertise it as a game, only in the more autosport > focussed magazines and you'll see the sales go up and with the higher > margins (less advertising, less distribution costs (don't put it in the > store, only online)) they can actually make a profit from doing what they > like most. They're caught up in the traditional way of selling games as is > invented by Sierra. Drop it. > > "GaryR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Although your intentions were well meaning, you took 5 copies of the > > best racing sim of all time off the market. > > > > 5 people that may have thought, "what the hell, for $15 I'll try it", > > and might have become part of our GPL community. Those 5 people might > > have spread the word even more. > > > > At this point, Papy wouldn't have noticed a difference in profit, but > > we as a GPL community could have possibly benefited from having 5 new > > drivers join us online. > > > > Just my opinion, > > > > -GaryR > > > > > > On Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:21:38 GMT, "Harjan Brand" <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > >I've said before that I would do it and I would love others to do it as > > >well. I've just bought 5 copies of GPL to show Papy my support to the > > >wonderful product they made. The copies were only $ 15 a piece so I am > not > > >supporting them financially but it's just to show them how much their > work > > >is appreciated by me. > > >If more of us would do this we would sent out a message to Papy/Sierra > that > > >we're willing to pay more for sims like GPL. I can honestly say that I > would > > >pay 5 times the regular amount for GPL 2 (based on the turbo era). > > > > > >I'm not sending this copies around, so please don't ask, I'll sent one > copy > > >to the dutch tv station that broadcasts F1. > > > > > > > > > > >

Some shops have GPL in 2 varieties, in the orignal packaging for ~�30 and with Sierra Originals packaging for �10! I've seen the latter in most of the usual places, including Game, Virgin, EB etc. Don't pay �34!! Steven Crook-Dawkins wrote:

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> :-) > > Out of interest - whereabouts is it selling at that price? Last time > I saw it they wanted �34 - (about $60). > > Harjan Brand wrote: > > > Probably. > > > > "Steven Crook-Dawkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > You are mad. > > > > > > Harjan Brand wrote: > > > > > > > I've said before that I would do it and I would love others to do it as > > > > well. I've just bought 5 copies of GPL to show Papy my support to the > > > > wonderful product they made. The copies were only $ 15 a piece so I am > > not > > > > supporting them financially but it's just to show them how much their > > work > > > > is appreciated by me. > > > > If more of us would do this we would sent out a message to Papy/Sierra > > that > > > > we're willing to pay more for sims like GPL. I can honestly say that I > > would > > > > pay 5 times the regular amount for GPL 2 (based on the turbo era). > > > > > > > > I'm not sending this copies around, so please don't ask, I'll sent one > > copy > > > > to the dutch tv station that broadcasts F1. > > > > > > -- > > > Steve > > > > > -- > Steven Crook-Dawkins - Research Assistant - University of York. > > Email Disclaimer > ---------------------- > The information in this email is confidential. > It is intended solely for the addressee. > Access to this email by anyone else is > unauthorised. > > The views expressed in this email are those of > the author, and should not be attributed to the > University of York, BAE SYSTEMS or any > other party.

On Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:20:38 GMT, "Harjan Brand" <[email hidden]> wrote: >like most. They're caught up in the traditional way of selling games as is >invented by Sierra. Drop it. A couple companies have already tried this with flight simulation. One is called X-Plane, and it has been marginally successful. I say marginally, because one guy made it, and he manages to eke out a living doing updates. Another company tried to do this, marketing a jet simulation for a little over $100. I can't recall the name of the game or the company, because I haven't heard it in a long time, and I don't think they're around anymore... It might have been Combat Simulations Inc. Something official sounding like that, anyway. Last time I saw the sim, it was being closed out for the same 15 bucks you paid for GPL. The guys in the flight sim newsgroups are still saying the same thing you're saying -that they'll pay over $100 for a simulation not marketed in traditional game methods/prices, yet when someone tried it, it didn't work. If everyone here who posts in the GPL threads bought 5 copies for $15, it'd probably amount to between 750 and 1000 dollars. Even if you did it all on the same day at the same time, it wouldn't even make a blip on the scope. To be unbiased, I should say I -have- seen it work, sort of. There is a program that simulates R/C airplanes for practice. You use an R/C aircraft controller hooked up to your serial port. I think the program sells for $239. This is a very fringe product though, and those companies seem to be better able to handle low volume/high priced stuff. Tim

On Tue 06 Jun 2000 03:28:11pm, Steven Crook-Dawkins wrote: >Out of interest - whereabouts is it selling at that price? Last time >I saw it they wanted �34 - (about $60). It was in Virgin in Birmingham a month or so ago, on Sierra originals, for a tenner. And the Computer Exchange shops (I think there's one in Leeds, which is probably your closest) normally have a couple of second-hand copies in. > Email Disclaimer >---------------------- >The information in this email is confidential. >It is intended solely for the addressee. >Access to this email by anyone else is >unauthorised. Better tell Deja, then ;-) -- David. "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

Although your intentions were well meaning, you took 5 copies of the best racing sim of all time off the market. 5 people that may have thought, "what the hell, for $15 I'll try it", and might have become part of our GPL community. Those 5 people might have spread the word even more. At this point, Papy wouldn't have noticed a difference in profit, but we as a GPL community could have possibly benefited from having 5 new drivers join us online. Just my opinion, -GaryR On Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:21:38 GMT, "Harjan Brand" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I've said before that I would do it and I would love others to do it as >well. I've just bought 5 copies of GPL to show Papy my support to the >wonderful product they made. The copies were only $ 15 a piece so I am not >supporting them financially but it's just to show them how much their work >is appreciated by me. >If more of us would do this we would sent out a message to Papy/Sierra that >we're willing to pay more for sims like GPL. I can honestly say that I would >pay 5 times the regular amount for GPL 2 (based on the turbo era). > >I'm not sending this copies around, so please don't ask, I'll sent one copy >to the dutch tv station that broadcasts F1. > > >

Steve, Its �9.99 in most places now. eg. http://www.softwarefirst.com Ash Steven Crook-Dawkins <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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| :-) | | Out of interest - whereabouts is it selling at that price? Last time | I saw it they wanted �34 - (about $60). | | Harjan Brand wrote: | | > Probably. | > | > "Steven Crook-Dawkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message | > news:[email hidden]... | > > You are mad. | > > | > > Harjan Brand wrote: | > > | > > > I've said before that I would do it and I would love others to do itas | > > > well. I've just bought 5 copies of GPL to show Papy my support tothe | > > > wonderful product they made. The copies were only $ 15 a piece so Iam | > not | > > > supporting them financially but it's just to show them how muchtheir | > work | > > > is appreciated by me. | > > > If more of us would do this we would sent out a message toPapy/Sierra | > that | > > > we're willing to pay more for sims like GPL. I can honestly say thatI | > would | > > > pay 5 times the regular amount for GPL 2 (based on the turbo era). | > > > | > > > I'm not sending this copies around, so please don't ask, I'll sentone

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| > copy | > > > to the dutch tv station that broadcasts F1. | > > | > > -- | > > Steve | > > | | -- | Steven Crook-Dawkins - Research Assistant - University of York. | | Email Disclaimer | ---------------------- | The information in this email is confidential. | It is intended solely for the addressee. | Access to this email by anyone else is | unauthorised. | | The views expressed in this email are those of | the author, and should not be attributed to the | University of York, BAE SYSTEMS or any | other party. | |

It's quite obvious that most of you don't understand my intentions. There were still about 20 copies on the shelves so don't worry about new players. I was hoping on getting some action going of more people doing the same thing. When that would happen world wide you can bet Sierra would start to notice it. Not because their profits would go up but just that a product that didn't sell is being sold 5 copies a time. That signal could show them how much GPL means to the hardcore simmer. Not that they care but that would make the dollar signs in their eyes go 'kadingeding'. And that's all that we need to do. Guys, I'm not mad, not stupid, I'm just one of the few guys trying to keep the GPL legend alive and evolving. I've already had very positive reactions from the tv station and if all goes well they'll put in a special feauture for GPL. Why don't you guys understand that GPL is far too hard and therefore unsatisfying for the average gamer. I don't want Papy to make it easier, I want them to go out and sell to the the real and create new simmers from people who like real racing. With the sim of GPL quality that's possible, I've said it before. Place the product in a niche market, ask a higher price, don't advertise it as a game, only in the more autosport focussed magazines and you'll see the sales go up and with the higher margins (less advertising, less distribution costs (don't put it in the store, only online)) they can actually make a profit from doing what they like most. They're caught up in the traditional way of selling games as is invented by Sierra. Drop it. "GaryR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Although your intentions were well meaning, you took 5 copies of the > best racing sim of all time off the market. > > 5 people that may have thought, "what the hell, for $15 I'll try it", > and might have become part of our GPL community. Those 5 people might > have spread the word even more. > > At this point, Papy wouldn't have noticed a difference in profit, but > we as a GPL community could have possibly benefited from having 5 new > drivers join us online. > > Just my opinion, > > -GaryR > > > On Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:21:38 GMT, "Harjan Brand" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >I've said before that I would do it and I would love others to do it as > >well. I've just bought 5 copies of GPL to show Papy my support to the > >wonderful product they made. The copies were only $ 15 a piece so I am

not > >supporting them financially but it's just to show them how much theirwork > >is appreciated by me. > >If more of us would do this we would sent out a message to Papy/Sierrathat > >we're willing to pay more for sims like GPL. I can honestly say that Iwould > >pay 5 times the regular amount for GPL 2 (based on the turbo era). > > > >I'm not sending this copies around, so please don't ask, I'll sent onecopy > >to the dutch tv station that broadcasts F1. > > > > > > >

On Wed, 7 Jun 2000 22:31:48 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote: >"Cadenet" Thanks. I knew I probably had it wrong. I keep trying to catch it in the SpeedVision credits when he does something like "Legends of Motorsport", but no joy... Regards, Brett C. Cammack That's Racing! Motorsports Pompano Beach, FL

But you might fork out $250 for a hardware upgrade to play it - which similarly will be worthless in three years time... "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> No way in the world (at current values) would I pay $250 for a piece of > entertainment software that, in three years time, is going to be available > on Ebay for $9.99!!! > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > Harjan Brand <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:jk7%4.266$%[email hidden]... > > I don't really agree, all I want to show (and I need others to follow my > > example to bring over the message) is that I'm willing to pay 5 times

the > > regular price. I'm not planning on paying an additional $250 for GPL butI

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> > will pay it for GPL2. > > > > I was in a bit of a strange mood and felt so bad about seeing GPL on the > > shelves for only $15 > > > > > >

Harjan Brand wrote: > > In Holland it's selling for $15. I bought my US version (2nd copy) for about 10 bucks. Anybody cheaper? ;) And I only bought it for the missing CD check... -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

Bruce, I certainly agree about letting others subsidize the newest toys, but I do wonder sometimes about how we each perceive various "lesiure time" and "entertainment" expenses. Why is it we can drop $500.00+ for a romantic weekend getaway with our spouses and then quibble about purchasing a piece of hardware that costs no more than a decent dinner for two out somewhere that will be well on it's way to the local waste treatment plant within 24 hours of the expenditure... No real opinion. It just strikes me curious how we develop our viewpoints and value perceptions. Regards, Brett C. Cammack That's Racing! Motorsports Pompano Beach, FL

Well the funny thing is that I don't play GPL that much anymore. I've got a small business running beside my study with which I'm trying to get a budget for driving an entire Formula Ford season. "amos-opus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> is this how you end up when you play GPL for too long? > > Sudesh > > Harjan Brand wrote: > > > > It's quite obvious that most of you don't understand my intentions.

There > > were still about 20 copies on the shelves so don't worry about newplayers. > > I was hoping on getting some action going of more people doing the same > > thing. When that would happen world wide you can bet Sierra would startto > > notice it. Not because their profits would go up but just that a product > > that didn't sell is being sold 5 copies a time. That signal could showthem > > how much GPL means to the hardcore simmer. Not that they care but thatwould > > make the dollar signs in their eyes go 'kadingeding'. And that's allthat we > > need to do. > > Guys, I'm not mad, not stupid, I'm just one of the few guys trying tokeep > > the GPL legend alive and evolving. I've already had very positivereactions > > from the tv station and if all goes well they'll put in a specialfeauture > > for GPL. Why don't you guys understand that GPL is far too hard and > > therefore unsatisfying for the average gamer. I don't want Papy to makeit > > easier, I want them to go out and sell to the the real and create new > > simmers from people who like real racing. With the sim of GPL qualitythat's > > possible, I've said it before. Place the product in a niche market, aska > > higher price, don't advertise it as a game, only in the more autosport > > focussed magazines and you'll see the sales go up and with the higher > > margins (less advertising, less distribution costs (don't put it in the > > store, only online)) they can actually make a profit from doing whatthey > > like most. They're caught up in the traditional way of selling games asis

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> > invented by Sierra. Drop it. > > > > "GaryR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Although your intentions were well meaning, you took 5 copies of the > > > best racing sim of all time off the market. > > > > > > 5 people that may have thought, "what the hell, for $15 I'll try it", > > > and might have become part of our GPL community. Those 5 people might > > > have spread the word even more. > > > > > > At this point, Papy wouldn't have noticed a difference in profit, but > > > we as a GPL community could have possibly benefited from having 5 new > > > drivers join us online. > > > > > > Just my opinion, > > > > > > -GaryR > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:21:38 GMT, "Harjan Brand" <[email hidden]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > >I've said before that I would do it and I would love others to do it

as > > > >well. I've just bought 5 copies of GPL to show Papy my support to the > > > >wonderful product they made. The copies were only $ 15 a piece so Iam > > not > > > >supporting them financially but it's just to show them how much their > > work > > > >is appreciated by me. > > > >If more of us would do this we would sent out a message toPapy/Sierra > > that > > > >we're willing to pay more for sims like GPL. I can honestly say thatI > > would > > > >pay 5 times the regular amount for GPL 2 (based on the turbo era). > > > > > > > >I'm not sending this copies around, so please don't ask, I'll sentone > > copy > > > >to the dutch tv station that broadcasts F1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

No way in the world (at current values) would I pay $250 for a piece of entertainment software that, in three years time, is going to be available on Ebay for $9.99!!! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Harjan Brand <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jk7%4.266$%[email hidden]... > I don't really agree, all I want to show (and I need others to follow my > example to bring over the message) is that I'm willing to pay 5 times the > regular price. I'm not planning on paying an additional $250 for GPL but I > will pay it for GPL2. > > I was in a bit of a strange mood and felt so bad about seeing GPL on the > shelves for only $15 > >

"Cadenet" -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Brett C. Cammack <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Send a box to Alan De Cadenay (misspelled?) care of SpeedVision! I've > been thinking about trying to contact him via email through their site > and enquire if he's aware of the sim and if he's ever tried it. He's > one guy that would appreciate GPL, I'm certain. > > Regards, > Brett C. Cammack > That's Racing! Motorsports > Pompano Beach, FL

No worries, Brett. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Brett C. Cammack <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 7 Jun 2000 22:31:48 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > >"Cadenet" > > Thanks. I knew I probably had it wrong. I keep trying to catch it in > the SpeedVision credits when he does something like "Legends of > Motorsport", but no joy... > > Regards, > Brett C. Cammack > That's Racing! Motorsports > Pompano Beach, FL

No....I stay one step (at least) BEHIND the current technology level. That way everything is new to me when I buy it but I pay less than the premium price. In addition, it would depend on what the hardware was. For example, although I'd like to get a CD writer, as there is much opportunity for me to use one in (for example) transcribing 200+ vinyl LPs to CD, I won't get one until the prices drop to a level that I'm happy to pay. Ditto for upgrading my (15") monitor; it provides a perfectly clear, readable image in zillions of colours so why the hell should I buy a new one? However, I would be quite prepared to fork out several hundreds of dollars for an applications software package that I know I will use to it's fullest extent. But insofar as games are concerned........they're just games and I consider that any expenditure for same to be way down the list of importance. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Tony Rickard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:j%v%4.2337$[email hidden]... > But you might fork out $250 for a hardware upgrade to play it - which > similarly will be worthless in three years time... > > > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > No way in the world (at current values) would I pay $250 for a piece of > > entertainment software that, in three years time, is going to be available > > on Ebay for $9.99!!! > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > > > > Harjan Brand <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:jk7%4.266$%[email hidden]... > > > I don't really agree, all I want to show (and I need others to follow my > > > example to bring over the message) is that I'm willing to pay 5 times > the > > > regular price. I'm not planning on paying an additional $250 for GPL but > I > > > will pay it for GPL2. > > > > > > I was in a bit of a strange mood and felt so bad about seeing GPL on the > > > shelves for only $15 > > > > > > > > > > > >

I s'pose that's one of the beautiful things about this world, Brett. Everyone is different and it's that difference that makes it such an interesting place. As the French say (or are supposed to!)...."Vive la difference" (my apologies if that phrase is spelt incorrectly). -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Brett C. Cammack <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Bruce, > > I certainly agree about letting others subsidize the newest toys, but > I do wonder sometimes about how we each perceive various "lesiure > time" and "entertainment" expenses. Why is it we can drop $500.00+ > for a romantic weekend getaway with our spouses and then quibble about > purchasing a piece of hardware that costs no more than a decent dinner > for two out somewhere that will be well on it's way to the local waste > treatment plant within 24 hours of the expenditure... > > No real opinion. It just strikes me curious how we develop our > viewpoints and value perceptions. > > Regards, > Brett C. Cammack > That's Racing! Motorsports > Pompano Beach, FL