Re: Wow what a race!!!

The fact that I was a HUGE Greg Moore and Adam Petty fan has nothing to do with my opinion of the IRL. I apologize if you're offended by my memorial to them. My post was to point out that when the cars are exactly the same they will run close. That's just common knowledge. I apologize if you weren't aware of this fact. I must remind you though that the 69 lead changes in the U.S. 500 were more entertaining, exciting, and with cars that aren't the same thing, damn amazing. You can watch your open-wheel Nascar...and when you see CART drop-outs winning races (not to mention the Shigster finishing ahead of the defending IRL champion as well as the last IRL driver to win the Indy 500) then you can think of how it all wouldn't be possibly if it wasn't for TG watering down the IRL. Just remember that those passes you saw for the lead yesterday would have been passes for 3rd if Ganassi had been there. Have a nice day! :) -- -Brett Goodbye Greg Moore 1975-1999 "I will see you at the front, and wish me luck..." - Greg Moore Goodbye Adam Petty 1980-2000 "It's all about racing on the track." - Adam Petty Congratulations to Juan Montoya, 2000 Indy 500 Champ! [email hidden] wrote in article <8i3jhg$mtm$[email hidden]>... > Yeah, and it's amazingly simple to go wheel-to-wheel at over 200 mph > for a couple of hours at a time. You do it all the time, I'm sure. > > Does it really kill you to admit that the IRL can and does regularly > put on good racing? The IRL stands on its own merits, and IRL fans > seldom resort to CART-bashing to further their own cause, yet, > invariably, "fans" such as yourself never miss a chance to tear down > the IRL in order to build up your own beloved CART series. I have > nothing against CART, its teams, or its drivers, but the term "candy- > ass CART fan-boy" rolls off the tongue so easily when faced with posts > like yours. > > And yet you're bold enough to even consider yourself a race fan -- but > I bet that Adam Petty and Greg Moore would hang their heads in shame to > see their names associated with a post like yours, aimed at tearing > down the accomplishments of fellow racers capable of doing what the IRL > drivers did yesterday at Texas. > > Ponder THAT, fan-boy. > > -- JB > > > In article <01beb72a$67e4a620$74b38ad1@default>, > "Brett" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > Yah, good race for artificial competition. When the cars are the > same, > > they seem to stay close, you know? > > > > -- > > -Brett > > Goodbye Greg Moore 1975-1999 > > "I will see you at the front, and wish me luck..." - Greg Moore > > Goodbye Adam Petty 1980-2000 > > "It's all about racing on the track." - Adam Petty > > Congratulations to Juan Montoya, 2000 Indy 500 Champ! > > > > Jay J <[email hidden]> wrote in article > > <T3Y05.6008$[email hidden]>... > > > For all the IRL bashers out there... > > > > > > I hope you were watching the superb action and side by side racing > that > > the > > > IRL put on today at Texas Motor Speedway. > > > > > > I'd rank that race right up there with the best IndyCar races I've > ever > > > seen... Period! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. >

Yah, good race for artificial competition. When the cars are the same, they seem to stay close, you know? -- -Brett Goodbye Greg Moore 1975-1999 "I will see you at the front, and wish me luck..." - Greg Moore Goodbye Adam Petty 1980-2000 "It's all about racing on the track." - Adam Petty Congratulations to Juan Montoya, 2000 Indy 500 Champ! Jay J <[email hidden]> wrote in article <T3Y05.6008$[email hidden]>... > For all the IRL bashers out there... > > I hope you were watching the superb action and side by side racing that the > IRL put on today at Texas Motor Speedway. > > I'd rank that race right up there with the best IndyCar races I've ever > seen... Period! > > >

Yeah, and it's amazingly simple to go wheel-to-wheel at over 200 mph for a couple of hours at a time. You do it all the time, I'm sure. Does it really kill you to admit that the IRL can and does regularly put on good racing? The IRL stands on its own merits, and IRL fans seldom resort to CART-bashing to further their own cause, yet, invariably, "fans" such as yourself never miss a chance to tear down the IRL in order to build up your own beloved CART series. I have nothing against CART, its teams, or its drivers, but the term "candy- ass CART fan-boy" rolls off the tongue so easily when faced with posts like yours. And yet you're bold enough to even consider yourself a race fan -- but I bet that Adam Petty and Greg Moore would hang their heads in shame to see their names associated with a post like yours, aimed at tearing down the accomplishments of fellow racers capable of doing what the IRL drivers did yesterday at Texas. Ponder THAT, fan-boy. -- JB In article <01beb72a$67e4a620$74b38ad1@default>, "Brett" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Yah, good race for artificial competition. When the cars are thesame,

Quoted text (15 lines)

> they seem to stay close, you know? > > -- > -Brett > Goodbye Greg Moore 1975-1999 > "I will see you at the front, and wish me luck..." - Greg Moore > Goodbye Adam Petty 1980-2000 > "It's all about racing on the track." - Adam Petty > Congratulations to Juan Montoya, 2000 Indy 500 Champ! > > Jay J <[email hidden]> wrote in article > <T3Y05.6008$[email hidden]>... > > For all the IRL bashers out there... > > > > I hope you were watching the superb action and side by side racing

that > the > > IRL put on today at Texas Motor Speedway. > > > > I'd rank that race right up there with the best IndyCar races I'veever > > seen... Period! > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Yah, good race for artificial competition. When the cars are the same, they seem to stay close, you know? -- -Brett Goodbye Greg Moore 1975-1999 "I will see you at the front, and wish me luck..." - Greg Moore Goodbye Adam Petty 1980-2000 "It's all about racing on the track." - Adam Petty Congratulations to Juan Montoya, 2000 Indy 500 Champ!

"Jay J" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:T3Y05.6008$[email hidden]... > For all the IRL bashers out there... > > I hope you were watching the superb action and side by side racing thatthe > IRL put on today at Texas Motor Speedway. Yeah, I checked the race for a few minutes to see what the crowd was like. It looked like everyone one of the 50 people in the stands was having a good time. How embarrasing. -- [email hidden] > I'd rank that race right up there with the best IndyCar races I've ever > seen... Period! > >

On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:09:14 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: >Yeah, and it's amazingly simple to go wheel-to-wheel at over 200 mph >for a couple of hours at a time. You do it all the time, I'm sure. > >Does it really kill you to admit that the IRL can and does regularly >put on good racing? The IRL stands on its own merits, and IRL fans Didn't Shigeaki Hattori finish 8th?? Ahead of Eddie Cheever. To refresh your mind Hattori was kicked out of CART for his lack of talent.

Quoted text (12 lines)

>seldom resort to CART-bashing to further their own cause, yet, >invariably, "fans" such as yourself never miss a chance to tear down >the IRL in order to build up your own beloved CART series. I have >nothing against CART, its teams, or its drivers, but the term "candy- >ass CART fan-boy" rolls off the tongue so easily when faced with posts >like yours. > >And yet you're bold enough to even consider yourself a race fan -- but >I bet that Adam Petty and Greg Moore would hang their heads in shame to >see their names associated with a post like yours, aimed at tearing >down the accomplishments of fellow racers capable of doing what the IRL >drivers did yesterday at Texas.

The IRL is great at forcing competition via rules and equipment. It's just like NASCAR. ----------- "My dispute is with the IRL. I will not support the IRL because I think that's what has disrupted open-wheel racing in America for us. I mean, we are pulling in different directions and that doesn't make sense." -- Mario Andretti, May 2000 Juan Montoya tells the truth about the Indianapolis Motor Speedway http://espn.go.com/media/2000/q2/car_000517jm1a.wav Oval racing is 98% engineering and 2% driver talent. Al Unser Jr: The Indy Retirement League Poster-Boy http://www.speedcenter.com/gallery/gallery98/13midohio/need_an_ashtray_here480.jpg

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8i3jhg$mtm$[email hidden]... > Yeah, and it's amazingly simple to go wheel-to-wheel at over 200 mph > for a couple of hours at a time. You do it all the time, I'm sure. > > Does it really kill you to admit that the IRL can and does regularly > put on good racing? The IRL stands on its own merits, and IRL fans > seldom resort to CART-bashing to further their own cause, yet, That is because they know that the IRL is lucky to have the gig that hey have. > invariably, "fans" such as yourself never miss a chance to tear down > the IRL in order to build up your own beloved CART series. I have Nothing to build up as CART is already there. It is just that what Tony george did by kicking CART out of Indy was dispicable. -- [email hidden] > nothing against CART, its teams, or its drivers, but the term "candy- > ass CART fan-boy" rolls off the tongue so easily when faced with posts > like yours. > > And yet you're bold enough to even consider yourself a race fan -- but > I bet that Adam Petty and Greg Moore would hang their heads in shame to > see their names associated with a post like yours, aimed at tearing > down the accomplishments of fellow racers capable of doing what the IRL > drivers did yesterday at Texas. > > Ponder THAT, fan-boy. > > -- JB > > > In article <01beb72a$67e4a620$74b38ad1@default>, > "Brett" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > Yah, good race for artificial competition. When the cars are the > same, > > they seem to stay close, you know? > > > > -- > > -Brett > > Goodbye Greg Moore 1975-1999 > > "I will see you at the front, and wish me luck..." - Greg Moore > > Goodbye Adam Petty 1980-2000 > > "It's all about racing on the track." - Adam Petty > > Congratulations to Juan Montoya, 2000 Indy 500 Champ! > > > > Jay J <[email hidden]> wrote in article > > <T3Y05.6008$[email hidden]>... > > > For all the IRL bashers out there... > > > > > > I hope you were watching the superb action and side by side racing > that > > the > > > IRL put on today at Texas Motor Speedway. > > > > > > I'd rank that race right up there with the best IndyCar races I've > ever > > > seen... Period! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

Quoted text (10 lines)

>[email hidden] wrote: >> Juan Montoya may be the >> most talented driver of our generation, and maybe the only one we'll >> ever see in our lifetime with a chance of winning Indy, the CART >> Championship, and the F1 World Championship > > >Hasn't Jacques Villeneuve already accomplished that feat? And I >certainly consider him to be in my lifetime :-) >

So did Mario Andretti... -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Own Grand Prix Legends? http://www.vroc.net Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Arne Martin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (12 lines)

> [email hidden] wrote: > > Juan Montoya may be the > > most talented driver of our generation, and maybe the only one we'll > > ever see in our lifetime with a chance of winning Indy, the CART > > Championship, and the F1 World Championship > > > Hasn't Jacques Villeneuve already accomplished that feat? And I > certainly consider him to be in my lifetime :-) > > -- > Arne Martin

Yes Arne, How soon they forget... don

In article <zNr15.4122$[email hidden]>, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote: > <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:8i59rb$rdt$[email hidden]... > > And Cheever finished ahead of former CART Champion and current > > Target/Chip Ganassi Racing driver Jimmy Vasser at Indy -- what'syour

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > point? Hattori has shown marked improvement -- do you think it's > > Vasser hasn't been cutting it for quite some time. I am not digging > his ego either... He *used* to be good though as were many others > like lil' al. > > > impossible for a driver to improve? Vasser failed to finish ahead

of > > Cheever at Indy -- is he now a no-talent because Hattoriaccomplished > > what he could not? Similarly, Zanardi washed out of F1, but wouldyou > > have me believe he's a no-talent? Remove those rose-colored glasses > > Well zanardi was a back marker in F1 before he came to CART and > dominated. So he sucks in F1 again just like he did before, bigsurprise > there. IMHO it just shows the level of talant between CART and F1. > Montoya is clearly the best open-wheel driver in CART (and hence the > IRL) and he might do just OK in F1. Since he is a WIlliams driver, I > would make sure the Williams car is on equal ground with Mclaren > and Ferrarri before he comes to F1. Otherwise forget it. If Montoya doesn't get a shot at F1 with the best equipment available, it will be one of the biggest travesties of our generation -- even bigger, perhaps, than the IRL/CART squabbles. Juan Montoya may be the most talented driver of our generation, and maybe the only one we'll ever see in our lifetime with a chance of winning Indy, the CART Championship, and the F1 World Championship, but if he gets strapped with sub-standard equipment, you might as well make him drive handcuffed (which might not be all that difficult with F1's paddle shifters, come to think about it). If he does get the necessary F1 hardware, he could become as legendary of a driver as the likes of Juan Fangio or Jim Clark. Let's hope he gets what he needs to be competitive in F1 so we can eventually find out just how amazing he is at ALL levels. -- JB <HUMOR> P.S. Sorry to get so off-topic -- allow me to get us back on track: "CART sucks, the IRL rulez! Neener! Neener!" <G> (kidding, of course) </HUMOR> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <01beb77d$8f264ec0$be0c8ad1@default>, "Brett" <[email hidden]> wrote: > The fact that I was a HUGE Greg Moore and Adam Petty fan has nothingto do > with my opinion of the IRL. I apologize if you're offended by mymemorial > to them. My post was to point out that when the cars are exactly thesame > they will run close. That's just common knowledge. I apologize if But they're NOT the same -- just ask any drivers who've tried to get the R&S chassis to perform on the larger ovals. The Dallara, G Force, and R&S chassis all conform to the same rules, just as the Lolas, Swifts, and Reynards in CART all conform to the same rules, but that does NOT mean that they are "exactly the same." Nor is an Infiniti engine "exactly the same" as an Aurora engine -- and the Auroras differ depending on the engine builder. Either take off the rose-colored glasses, or damn CART for the same things you damn the IRL for.

Quoted text (11 lines)

> you > weren't aware of this fact. I must remind you though that the 69 lead > changes in the U.S. 500 were more entertaining, exciting, and with > cars > that aren't the same thing, damn amazing. You can watch your open- > wheel > Nascar...and when you see CART drop-outs winning races (not to > mention the > Shigster finishing ahead of the defending IRL champion as well as the > last > IRL driver to win the Indy 500) then you can think of how it all

wouldn't > be possibly if it wasn't for TG watering down the IRL. And Cheever finished ahead of former CART Champion and current Target/Chip Ganassi Racing driver Jimmy Vasser at Indy -- what's your point? Hattori has shown marked improvement -- do you think it's impossible for a driver to improve? Vasser failed to finish ahead of Cheever at Indy -- is he now a no-talent because Hattori accomplished what he could not? Similarly, Zanardi washed out of F1, but would you have me believe he's a no-talent? Remove those rose-colored glasses before you seriously injure yourself.

Quoted text (22 lines)

> Just remember that those passes you saw for the lead yesterday would > have been passes for 3rd if Ganassi had been there. Have a nice > day! :) > > -- > -Brett > Goodbye Greg Moore 1975-1999 > "I will see you at the front, and wish me luck..." - Greg Moore > Goodbye Adam Petty 1980-2000 > "It's all about racing on the track." - Adam Petty > Congratulations to Juan Montoya, 2000 Indy 500 Champ! > > [email hidden] wrote in article <8i3jhg$mtm$[email hidden]>... > > Yeah, and it's amazingly simple to go wheel-to-wheel at over 200 mph > > for a couple of hours at a time. You do it all the time, I'm sure. > > > > Does it really kill you to admit that the IRL can and does regularly > > put on good racing? The IRL stands on its own merits, and IRL fans > > seldom resort to CART-bashing to further their own cause, yet, > > invariably, "fans" such as yourself never miss a chance to tear down > > the IRL in order to build up your own beloved CART series. I have > > nothing against CART, its teams, or its drivers, but the

term "candy- > > ass CART fan-boy" rolls off the tongue so easily when faced withposts > > like yours. > > > > And yet you're bold enough to even consider yourself a race fan --but > > I bet that Adam Petty and Greg Moore would hang their heads inshame to > > see their names associated with a post like yours, aimed at tearing > > down the accomplishments of fellow racers capable of doing what theIRL

Quoted text (26 lines)

> > drivers did yesterday at Texas. > > > > Ponder THAT, fan-boy. > > > > -- JB > > > > > > In article <01beb72a$67e4a620$74b38ad1@default>, > > "Brett" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > Yah, good race for artificial competition. When the cars are the > > same, > > > they seem to stay close, you know? > > > > > > -- > > > -Brett > > > Goodbye Greg Moore 1975-1999 > > > "I will see you at the front, and wish me luck..." - Greg Moore > > > Goodbye Adam Petty 1980-2000 > > > "It's all about racing on the track." - Adam Petty > > > Congratulations to Juan Montoya, 2000 Indy 500 Champ! > > > > > > Jay J <[email hidden]> wrote in article > > > <T3Y05.6008$[email hidden]>... > > > > For all the IRL bashers out there... > > > > > > > > I hope you were watching the superb action and side by side

racing > > that > > > the > > > > IRL put on today at Texas Motor Speedway. > > > > > > > > I'd rank that race right up there with the best IndyCar racesI've

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > ever > > > > seen... Period! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Before you buy. > > >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8i59rb$rdt$[email hidden]... > And Cheever finished ahead of former CART Champion and current > Target/Chip Ganassi Racing driver Jimmy Vasser at Indy -- what's your > point? Hattori has shown marked improvement -- do you think it's Vasser hasn't been cutting it for quite some time. I am not digging his ego either... He *used* to be good though as were many others like lil' al. > impossible for a driver to improve? Vasser failed to finish ahead of > Cheever at Indy -- is he now a no-talent because Hattori accomplished > what he could not? Similarly, Zanardi washed out of F1, but would you > have me believe he's a no-talent? Remove those rose-colored glasses Well zanardi was a back marker in F1 before he came to CART and dominated. So he sucks in F1 again just like he did before, big surprise there. IMHO it just shows the level of talant between CART and F1. Montoya is clearly the best open-wheel driver in CART (and hence the IRL) and he might do just OK in F1. Since he is a WIlliams driver, I would make sure the Williams car is on equal ground with Mclaren and Ferrarri before he comes to F1. Otherwise forget it. -- [email hidden]

In article <8i7r7d$lse$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes:

Quoted text (11 lines)

>> Mario won Indy in 1969, which is within MY lifetime. His F1 >Championship was >> what, 1978? Geez, you're young...<g> > >LOL! Okay, Mario was within MY lifetime, too -- I guess what I meant >to say was that Juan may be the LAST driver we see do this in our >lifetime, given the current state of things in F1 and what have you. > >Better? <G> > >-- JB

Ok - I can agree with that... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. 2:12.80 minutes-GPLRank:345 and falling.. Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > In article <[email hidden]>, Arne Martin<[email hidden]>

Quoted text (7 lines)

> writes: > > >EldredP wrote: > >> > >> >[email hidden] wrote: > >> >> Juan Montoya may be the > >> >> most talented driver of our generation, and maybe the only one

we'll

Quoted text (12 lines)

> >> >> ever see in our lifetime with a chance of winning Indy, the CART > >> >> Championship, and the F1 World Championship > >> > > >> > > >> >Hasn't Jacques Villeneuve already accomplished that feat? And I > >> >certainly consider him to be in my lifetime :-) > >> > > >> > >> So did Mario Andretti... > > > > > >But I don't consider him to be in my lifetime... Was barely born

when he > >made his F1 title, and didn't he win indy even before that? Of course > >he's raced long after that (and even still doing at Le Mans), but his > >titles were all in a different era. > > > >On the other hand maybe JB doesn't consider wins done at indy beforethe

Quoted text (7 lines)

> >IRL to be true indy wins... > > > >-- > >Arne Martin > > > > Mario won Indy in 1969, which is within MY lifetime. His F1

Championship was > what, 1978? Geez, you're young...<g> LOL! Okay, Mario was within MY lifetime, too -- I guess what I meant to say was that Juan may be the LAST driver we see do this in our lifetime, given the current state of things in F1 and what have you. Better? <G> -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <3NE15.2696$[email hidden]>, "Jon Van Ginneken" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > "Arne Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > [email hidden] wrote: > > > Juan Montoya may be the > > > most talented driver of our generation, and maybe the only onewe'll

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > > ever see in our lifetime with a chance of winning Indy, the CART > > > Championship, and the F1 World Championship > > > > > > Hasn't Jacques Villeneuve already accomplished that feat? And I > > certainly consider him to be in my lifetime :-) > > > > But the Indy 500 was nothing before the IRL... <VBG>

At last -- someone else who sees the light!! <VBG> ;-) -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <[email hidden]>, Arne Martin <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (27 lines)

>EldredP wrote: >> >> >[email hidden] wrote: >> >> Juan Montoya may be the >> >> most talented driver of our generation, and maybe the only one we'll >> >> ever see in our lifetime with a chance of winning Indy, the CART >> >> Championship, and the F1 World Championship >> > >> > >> >Hasn't Jacques Villeneuve already accomplished that feat? And I >> >certainly consider him to be in my lifetime :-) >> > >> >> So did Mario Andretti... > > >But I don't consider him to be in my lifetime... Was barely born when he >made his F1 title, and didn't he win indy even before that? Of course >he's raced long after that (and even still doing at Le Mans), but his >titles were all in a different era. > >On the other hand maybe JB doesn't consider wins done at indy before the >IRL to be true indy wins... > >-- >Arne Martin >

Mario won Indy in 1969, which is within MY lifetime. His F1 Championship was what, 1978? Geez, you're young...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. 2:12.80 minutes GPLRank:332 and falling.. Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] wrote: > Juan Montoya may be the > most talented driver of our generation, and maybe the only one we'll > ever see in our lifetime with a chance of winning Indy, the CART > Championship, and the F1 World Championship Hasn't Jacques Villeneuve already accomplished that feat? And I certainly consider him to be in my lifetime :-) -- Arne Martin

EldredP wrote:

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > >[email hidden] wrote: > >> Juan Montoya may be the > >> most talented driver of our generation, and maybe the only one we'll > >> ever see in our lifetime with a chance of winning Indy, the CART > >> Championship, and the F1 World Championship > > > > > >Hasn't Jacques Villeneuve already accomplished that feat? And I > >certainly consider him to be in my lifetime :-) > > > > So did Mario Andretti...

But I don't consider him to be in my lifetime... Was barely born when he made his F1 title, and didn't he win indy even before that? Of course he's raced long after that (and even still doing at Le Mans), but his titles were all in a different era. On the other hand maybe JB doesn't consider wins done at indy before the IRL to be true indy wins... -- Arne Martin

"Arne Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (10 lines)

> [email hidden] wrote: > > Juan Montoya may be the > > most talented driver of our generation, and maybe the only one we'll > > ever see in our lifetime with a chance of winning Indy, the CART > > Championship, and the F1 World Championship > > > Hasn't Jacques Villeneuve already accomplished that feat? And I > certainly consider him to be in my lifetime :-) >

But the Indy 500 was nothing before the IRL... <VBG> Jon